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(The New York Times)   End Mass Incarceration Now   (nytimes.com) divider line 74
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11071 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2014 at 8:21 PM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-05-25 08:29:26 PM
16 votes:
Not mentioned: abolish for-profit prisons.
2014-05-25 08:30:45 PM
13 votes:

Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.


Bullshiat.

content.gallup.com
2014-05-25 08:29:20 PM
11 votes:

TheHighlandHowler: Everyone is on this bandwagon until a friend/famly-member gets robbed or worse.  Then they want to throw away the key.


Well that's why the article specifically points out the number of people who are incarcerated for non-violent crimes.


End Drug Prohibition. It's not a government's role to tell citizens what they can and cannot consume. That alone will drop the number of people incarcerated for non-violent crimes that shouldn't be crimes in the first place. And it will free up space and manpower to deal with the people who are robbing others, or worse.
2014-05-25 07:41:12 PM
11 votes:
FTFA: $80 billion a year in direct corrections expenses alone, and more than a quarter-trillion dollars when factoring in police, judicial and legal services.

In other words:

Never. Gonna. Happen.
2014-05-25 08:25:48 PM
9 votes:

TheHighlandHowler: Then they want to throw away the key.


Which is why we don't let victims of crime determine the punishment for offenders.
2014-05-25 08:22:08 PM
8 votes:

TheHighlandHowler: Everyone is on this bandwagon until a friend/famly-member gets robbed or worse.  Then they want to throw away the key.


Fickleness isn't a reason to continue a failed policy.
2014-05-25 08:33:00 PM
7 votes:

Mrbogey: America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.


Lol wut?

upload.wikimedia.org
2014-05-25 07:26:22 PM
7 votes:
Stop breaking the law!
2014-05-25 08:02:34 PM
6 votes:
Everyone is on this bandwagon until a friend/famly-member gets robbed or worse.  Then they want to throw away the key.
2014-05-25 08:44:39 PM
5 votes:

Zombalupagus: Mrbogey: America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Lol wut?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 413x297]


news.bbcimg.co.uk

Violent crime is reducing in the UK & Europe too and we do not lock up the same numbers as the US. Some think there is a correlation with the removal of lead from petrol/gas.
2014-05-25 10:04:14 PM
4 votes:

TheWhoppah: About 2% of the population are unfit for civil society.  The safest way to "end mass incarceration" is to simply execute them.


Unfortunately they are super rich and generally own society and the courts so executing them legally is rather difficult.
2014-05-25 09:58:42 PM
4 votes:

But... this is what we wanted.


For more than three decades, since Saint Ronnie made being "tough on crime" a directive to the cheers of the majority of Americans, we've managed to incarcerate anyone who would dare disturb that status quo. We kept - nay, reinforced - those policies through the presidencies of Bush, Clinton, Dubya, and now Obama. The "War on Drugs", the "War on Immigration", the "War on the Poor" - remember, we don't incarcerate the rich, because they're worth more out of prison. The poor, on the other hand, are a vast labor pool and, thanks to the prison environment & the stigma of being incarcerated, are more likely to come back. The rich and middle class make quite a bit of money off the incarceration and exploitation of the imprisoned, and so, hey, it's just business now.

If this wasn't what we wanted, why did we sign off on it, over and over again, for more than three decades? I mean, other than the "well, that only happens to bad people, so I'm OK with it" canard? Why did we keep electing assholes to office on that very platform? Why do we continue to back assholes who keep pushing for more prisons, faster executions, longer sentences, and more exploitation of prisoners while incarcerated?

Where do we put the blame? That's easy - us. We did this, cheerfully, willfully, and with the idea that we were making a better America. Our crime rate dropped, but in return we've given unprecedented power to law enforcement and made money off imprisoning drug users and hookers, even as white-collar criminals steal billions with not so much as a slap on the wrist. You're more likely to go to prison for stealing $20 than you are $20 million - and we're apparently OK with that, because we've not yet formed a mob to drag out and beat the folks on Wall Street that managed to make billions and billions of our dollars vanish, only to turn up with huge bonuses and knowing grins on their faces.

We did this. We have the power to undo it, as well. How many of you are going to do anything other than complain about it, though?
2014-05-25 09:00:36 PM
4 votes:
i.imgur.com

Technically, this meme isn't quite accurate. I didn't exist in 1953, so I wasn't around to remember when Stalin's Gulag system peaked out at 1500-2000 incarcerations per 100,000 people (and maybe another thousand or so if you include all the various forms of forced labor in the USSR), so I suppose by that standard, we still have some catching up to do.

The textbooks that I remember would have been written in the 70s, where the US incarceration rate was around 150-200 per 100,000. By the end of the Cold War, say, 1989, our rate of 426/100,000 rate was #1, besting South Africa's 333/100,000 and the USSR's 268/100,000. (If you want a chuckle, compare our present-day incarceration rate - measured our entire society - with South Africa's incarceration rates as a function of race during the last days of apartheid.)
2014-05-25 08:31:49 PM
4 votes:
As long as there is such a thing as a For Profit Prison Industry, we will be locking up more people, not less.

Who the fark thought that was a good idea??
2014-05-25 08:31:17 PM
4 votes:
The problem is GNP. Yep you heard that right Gov. Jerry Brown explained it 20 years ago

You have one poor guy making only 12K a year. That's 12k for GNP.

But put him her in prison he makes $0, yet you have to pay people to be guards, you have to pay people to build new prisons. You have to make contracts to feed the guy with food companies/

That one poor guy that's locked up is now provide a whole lot more to the GNP than that measly 12 k.
2014-05-25 09:15:38 PM
3 votes:
I don't know if the Editorial Board was in part inspired by Ta-Nehisi Coates' "The Case for Reparations", http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/05/the-case-for-repa r ations/361631/ , or that more people are starting to think this way.

What the editorial didn't mention is that the US is currently setup to deliberately create a criminal, disenfranchised, and disadvantaged underclass.
2014-05-25 08:49:15 PM
3 votes:

Mrbogey: America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal.


imageshack.com
2014-05-25 08:35:45 PM
3 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: The problem is GNP. Yep you heard that right Gov. Jerry Brown explained it 20 years ago

You have one poor guy making only 12K a year. That's 12k for GNP.

But put him her in prison he makes $0, yet you have to pay people to be guards, you have to pay people to build new prisons. You have to make contracts to feed the guy with food companies/

That one poor guy that's locked up is now provide a whole lot more to the GNP than that measly 12 k.


That's just a variation of the broken windows fallacy.  It's nonsense.
2014-05-25 08:31:51 PM
3 votes:

Honest Bender: Stop breaking the law!


You probably broke a dozen laws this week and weren't even aware of it.
2014-05-25 08:29:11 PM
3 votes:
I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.
2014-05-25 11:39:05 PM
2 votes:
zepillin:

Crack is to cocaine as cocaine is to chewing the leaves

Crack is to cocaine as black is to white.

If a poor black kid smokes cocaine, it's crack. If a rich white kid smokes cocaine, it's free-base.
2014-05-25 09:56:32 PM
2 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: jaytkay: ?

You mean crime rates, correct?

Incarceration rates also.  See upthread for cites.


WTF?  Here's your incarceration rate "falling for decades".

img.fark.net
2014-05-25 09:41:03 PM
2 votes:

Honest Bender: Stop breaking the law!


Stop making them!
2014-05-25 09:38:55 PM
2 votes:

TheHighlandHowler: Everyone is on this bandwagon until a friend/famly-member gets robbed or worse.  Then they want to throw away the key.


Conversely - a lot of people are in favor of tough laws for drug users until it's their own kid facing life in prison for baking some pot brownies.
2014-05-25 09:25:42 PM
2 votes:
Dirty J1:

Multiple instances of minor drug possession..... So they did it again.... And again...... And again, knowing full well they shouldn't do it. How many chances do we award people until we have to lock them up to keep them from doing it? 10, 20, 30 chances perhaps? 100 chances? 1,000? If you had maybe said "first time" drug possession then I would understand..... But the key word in your argument was "multiple."

A million times b/c there is no good reason to lock someone up simply for using a drug. You and people who think like you are what's wrong w/ America.
2014-05-25 09:25:22 PM
2 votes:

Mrbogey: jaytkay: Most prisoners are in for non-violent offenses.

Get that cite out. Show us.


I spy with my little eye someone who DNRTFA.

More than half of state prisoners are serving time for nonviolent crimes, and one of every nine, or about 159,000 people, are serving life sentences - nearly a third of them without the possibility of parole.

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=18613
2014-05-25 09:04:25 PM
2 votes:
Drugs can ruin your life.  So if we catch you with them, we're going to ruin your life.
2014-05-25 08:55:52 PM
2 votes:

fusillade762: Mrbogey: fusillade762: Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Bullshiat.

[content.gallup.com image 556x303]

Well they can't very well commit violent crime if they're in prison now can they?

Bolded to highlight your idiocy.


Well, they only ever add laws to the books. I'd bet there's something in the DMCA that makes viewing Fark threads with a picture block illegal.

Mostly by removing the lead from the gasoline, Americans are less violent and more empathic than they were in the 70s and 80s. But that rapid removal of lead in the 70s reduced blood levels in kids during important formative years that translated to teens and young adults less prone to violence by the early 90s.

Unlike the abortion connection, the leaded gas connection happened in other countries. If the connection holds, even Mexico should get less violent since they finally got the lead out in the 00s, then the kids grow up less violent and the violent adults mellow out in their 30s.

The world is getting better, even if all you see is shiat.
2014-05-25 08:38:36 PM
2 votes:
It was a jobs program that failed when someone else realized they could use the prisoners as slave cheap labor. Got a city motorpool? Well, the sheriff has a pack of trustees that'll do all your maintenance instead of tax paying businesses. Need to feed thousands of prisoners? Well, this prison farm provides canned food instead of ConAgra. Need furniture for government offices? Here's a series of woodworking shops. More printed forms? Well, why bother getting bids, the prison shop only has two people making a real wage.

Of course, now it would add about three or four million to the unemployed roster. Both prisoners and guards and lawyers and narcs. Might have to resort to special facilities where people get sent when the can't afford their oxygen rations.
2014-05-25 08:38:02 PM
2 votes:

Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminalwe're locking up shiatloads of people because of our ridiculous drug laws, corrupt legal system, and the for-profit prison industry. That's how societal collapse a police state works folks.

2014-05-25 08:35:33 PM
2 votes:

namegoeshere: As long as there is such a thing as a For Profit Prison Industry, we will be locking up more people, not less.

Who the fark thought that was a good idea??


the people who built the private prisons, duh
2014-05-26 06:42:58 AM
1 votes:

Honest Bender: Stop breaking the law!


Stop discrimination against poor white people and black people. Force corporations to pay people a living wage so they don't have to break the law to survive.
2014-05-26 05:29:10 AM
1 votes:
SunsetLament:
Having an arrest record doesn't make you a criminal; it makes you a criminal that got caught.  Committing crimes makes you a criminal.  I notice you left out whether or not you have committed crimes ... you know, like "possession of a controlled substance"?

Like most Americans, I unknowingly commit around three felonies a day. In the past I've been especially guilty of Clean Air Act violations but I've since stopped eating at Taco Bell. I do tire how your ilk automatically assume that anyone advocating the repeal of drug prohibition must by default be a drug user, however. I don't assume every cop has shot someone without justification and gotten away with it, or planted evidence, or accepted free "gratuities" from merchants.

Incidentally, having an arrest record doesn't make anyone a criminal that got caught. Having an arrest record makes someone officially accused of criminal activity. There are criminals that get away with their crimes; there are innocents wrongfully convicted. Like all human systems, the criminal justice system is subject to human fallibility. I've served on a criminal jury, and it was a real eye opener as to how bad your chances are if you have criminal charges go to trial.

FredPhelp'slovechild:

I cannot agree with your sentiments there. I feel those "tweakers" are our brothers and sisters and we should never give up on them until they're dead. Please think about the idea that you may have been born in a crappy life and somehow ended up in addiction. I know you wouldn't want anyone to give up on you.

The family members are welcome to help however they imagine they can. If they're addicted despite prohibition (or actual incarceration, where such drugs are notoriously easy to obtain) then legalization won't make much difference regarding their efforts, except as previously noted, allowing a greater ability for such addicts to meter their doses and avoid exposure to unknown chemicals. As far as family members giving up on me, some have simply because I didn't join the military, get married or father children (you're welcome). I got over it.
2014-05-26 03:54:48 AM
1 votes:

FredPhelp'slovechild: My problem is with someone selling drugs being considered non-violent.


18 U.S. Code § 16 - Crime of violence defined
The term "crime of violence" means-
(a) an offense that has as an element the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person or property of another, or
(b) any other offense that is a felony and that, by its nature, involves a substantial risk that physical force against the person or property of another may be used in the course of committing the offense.
If smoking weed is a violent crime, then so is drinking beer.

Drug use may in some cases be a felony, but it generally doesn't involve "the person or property of another [person]". It could be used - just like EtOH - when someone does commit a violent crime, but that would involve another charge (e.g. "battery" or whatever). As for risk, as Frank Zappa said:
A drug is not bad. A drug is a chemical compound. The problem comes in when people who take drugs treat them like a license to behave like an asshole.
There will always be some assholes in any sufficiently-large group of people. Just as most people who consume EtOH are not "drunks" doing violent things to others, neither are the people who use most other drugs. You just don't hear about them as often.
2014-05-26 03:07:08 AM
1 votes:
SunsetLament:

No, I'm personally accusing anyone who thinks the cops are running around "faking" drug dog hits and using "drop bags" to arrest non-criminals for crimes that do not actually exist of being a pothead (and a paranoid one at that).


You really think that kind of shiat never happens?.. Oo

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/us/in-california-a-champion-for-po li ce-cameras.html

"In the first year after the cameras were introduced here in February 2012, the number of complaints filed against officers fell by 88 percent compared with the previous 12 months. Use of force by officers fell by almost 60 percent over the same period"

2014-05-26 03:03:08 AM
1 votes:

fredbox: I believe a majority of states would pass a ballot measure that gave the police the right of summary execution of crime suspects.

If there's anything the American people want more than the next Big Mac, it's institutionally sanctioned violence on anyone they view as criminals.


And then it would be the duty of any liberty minded individual to stand up to that sort of tyranny, with violence if necessary.
2014-05-26 02:57:31 AM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: FredPhelp'slovechild: I have an honest question. There seems to be a pretty obvious correlation (yes, I know, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation) between tougher criminal penalties and lower crime rates. Isn't there a possibility that we are catching non-violent offenders before they become violent offenders? Do we really believe these numbers are simply a coincidence?

No, but it's not what you think.

It's like drift-net fishing. The finer the mesh, the more fish you catch; but they're not necessarily the fish you want to catch. If you're fishing for tuna, but using a one-centimeter mesh, you'll catch plenty of tuna--but also a shiatload of smaller fish that didn't slip through the net. You may keep the tuna, but meanwhile all those trash fish are dead.

Same way with harsher penalties for lesser crimes. Sure, they're vacuuming up a few hard-core offenders and catching some that MIGHT have gone on to become violent offenders--but in that same fine net, they're sweeping up plenty of small trash fish that weren't intended, and which now have been ruined by our society that does not allow the criminal to pay for his crimes, since once a felon, always a felon insofar as jobs, housing, education, etc., are concerned.

Just as tuna fishers can catch about the same poundage of fish with judicious line and wider nets; so a targeted approach to law enforcement could catch the hardcore felons and potential troublemakers early--but that would mean proactive policing and requiring society to take responsibility for policies that create conditions for crime; and we're not there yet.


That's a really great analogy. And that's one of the problems with preventative law. By it's very nature you are going to end up harming more people than people you would catch actually doing something truly bad. It was the motive behind Alcohol Prohibition. Since some people end up doing bad stuff with alcohol, let's make it illegal for everyone. Not only did that end up causing more problems than it "solved" (which was none), not only did it end up creating an entire class of criminals based around bootlegging which gave the mob a tremendous amount of money to control politicians, police and judges, but it didn't even stop drinking.

That's what we have with drugs, and with any number of laws, such as many gun laws. Casting a huge net and limiting the freedoms of everyone with the hope that you might stop a handful of violent criminals ahead of time. It didn't work then, it doesn't work now, and it's contrary to the individual liberties this nation was founded on. People should be free to act as they will provided they are not infringing on the rights of others. All crimes should have a definable victim. You do X and person(s) Y suffer or could suffer for that specific act. So make X a crime. Make the punishment for X severe enough that people won't want to do it and leave everyone else alone. And it works about as well as anything can for things like drunk driving. Drinking is not a problem. Driving while drinking either does cause harm or that specific act could cause harm. We should apply that to drugs. Drugs are not the problem. Committing harmful acts on drugs is. And yes, it can be applied to guns too. Carrying a gun is not a problem. Shooting at people without just cause is. Remove the idea of victimless crimes from the books and we can solve a lot of problems and let people be free to act as they will, and should, as long as they aren't hurting anyone or their property.

The side benefit of this is that the effectiveness of all areas of law enforcement would shoot up. Police response times would be reduced as we are not out busting people for a bag of weed. Jails would be far less crowded and safer for both the inmates and the guards. Trials would be faster as there would be fewer of them. Public attorneys could spend more time and thought on real cases because they're not bogged down with hundreds of pointless minor cases. Everything from how fast a restraining order is applied and how well it's enforced, to response times for home invasions, to murder investigations would be enhanced because more manpower could be spent dealing with those things instead of a criminal justice system filled past it's breaking point with "criminals" who have hurt no one, stolen nothing, and infringed no one's rights.

So why don't we do this? Well first, politicians love to be seen "doing something". The first thing brought up whenever a major incident happens is how we can make a new law to stop it, never how can we enforce the laws we already have better. The second is money. When you make an incentive to do something, that something will always rise. For profit prisons create an incentive to have more criminals. So that's what we have now. And third, and certainly not least is control. Guilt is a powerful factor in controlling a population. Even right now felons are prevented from voting and possessing firearms. Those of course are the two ways any citizenry can enforce its will on its rulers. By taking away those two things, entire swaths of "undesirables" people can effectively be removed from the political process and any say they have in how their nation is run is neutered.

I'm reminded of a great quote. "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws "

Once a person is classified as a criminal it becomes far easier to do anything you want to them, and far easier to get those who aren't yet criminals to go along with it. Well America seems to be trying to create new criminals by the thousands every day. We need to ask ourselves why and more importantly, if this is really good for us as a people.
2014-05-25 11:21:55 PM
1 votes:
Well, if you live in the U.S. and breathe, You are violating a Federal Law:

"There is no one in the United States over the age of 18 who cannot be indicted for some federal crime," said John Baker, a retired Louisiana State University law professor who has also tried counting the number of new federal crimes created in recent years. "That is not an exaggeration."

/ The quote above is from the WSJ, But Fark didn't want me to link it,

// Now count the number of laws in your State, County and City that you violate!

/// I mustn't break the 3rd slashie law!
2014-05-25 11:06:54 PM
1 votes:

Duke_leto_Atredes: If someone has a better idea, Trot it out. I have been a big lock up the junkies for years but that my baggage we need a better solution.


Junkies aren't really a drug related problem.

Junkies are a "Drugs are illegal." problem.

Black markets and poverty cause "crackheads" while addiction to the same drugs is ubequetious in many socially positive fields, such as acting and music.
2014-05-25 10:59:25 PM
1 votes:
TheWhoppah:
The French managed to do it 200 years ago.  Surely we can manage today?!?

The French aristocracy didn't have the same tools available to the ruling class today:

upload.wikimedia.org

upload.wikimedia.org

upload.wikimedia.org

and don't think they won't hesitate to use them if they stop losing their grip.
2014-05-25 10:48:39 PM
1 votes:
400 people in the USA own half the wealth. Until this wealth and future income is spent on making this country a better place for all of its inhabitants, you may as well just build more prisons. Some greedy mofos out there who see money as a way of keeping score, not as a way of improving the quality of life in the world they share.
2014-05-25 10:28:08 PM
1 votes:

jaytkay: ThrobblefootSpectre: jaytkay: WTF?  Here's your incarceration rate "falling for decades".

BTW - funny thing about that graphic.  It cites its source as dated 1986, and shows data up to 2000+.  Think about it.  Lol.

Doh! You're right. That was a projected rate.

But you're still deluded about the rate falling for decades.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 693x464]


Two things happened in the early 80s that I think are factors.  The War on Drugs was in full effect.  Reagan gave amnesty to millions of illegals. This embolded millions of others to jump the border and have led to where we were.
2014-05-25 10:26:13 PM
1 votes:

DaStompa: TheWhoppah: About 2% of the population are unfit for civil society.  The safest way to "end mass incarceration" is to simply execute them.

Unfortunately they are super rich and generally own society and the courts so executing them legally is rather difficult.


^^ sadly, THIS ^^  (Well played, Mr. Stompa!)
2014-05-25 10:24:44 PM
1 votes:
A former boss came up with a solution for the problem behind the problem: laws should be renewed every year. That way the stupid ones which are mainly used to heckle the general population would go away and we could concentrate on the important ones.

/Liek the wurr on drugs!
2014-05-25 10:11:06 PM
1 votes:

Dirty J1: limboslam: You know, every once in a while, I try to get a little concerned about prisoners in America....and then it just goes away. F 'em. Don't care.

I'm with you there, but unfortunately the mass majority of our fellow Americans have become pussified beyond repair and over sympathize with criminals. That's why we keep them alive, pamper them, and spend ungodly amounts of taxpayer money on them. Did you know it takes around 40 to 60,000 a year to keep a prisoner incarcerated, not including their educational benefits? Most people don't make that in a year working their Asses off.


Better to spend a year busting your ass a free man than it is to be locked up and farked in the ass.
2014-05-25 10:10:00 PM
1 votes:

WhoopAssWayne: 6-8 years of Obama backing the same policy.


Give the man credit for signing the Fair Sentencing Act into law in 2010. It reduced the sentencing disparity between crack and cocaine from 100:1 to 18:1. We have since saved half a billion dollars and 16,000 prison-years.
2014-05-25 10:09:42 PM
1 votes:

jaytkay: WTF?  Here's your incarceration rate "falling for decades".


BTW - funny thing about that graphic.  It cites its source as dated 1986, and shows data up to 2000+.  Think about it.  Lol.
2014-05-25 10:03:42 PM
1 votes:
Another problem with prison: It puts people who are rogues, scoundrels and only sort-of losers in contact with people who have lost all concept of human empathy and who are big-time losers. I'd say the former learn more from the latter than the latter do from the former.
2014-05-25 10:02:40 PM
1 votes:

flemardo: I read that as mass incineration. I guess that would be a solution to mass incarceration though.


A final solution.
2014-05-25 10:00:05 PM
1 votes:

Dirty J1: Yeah sure so lets just let them get away with it, no big deal. Why even bother making laws for anything if we don't enforce them. And what do you suppose is an appropriate permanent solution? Rehab? Fines?


How about repealing all drug laws and leaving people alone? Can't have that in the land of the free, can we? A guy sitting in the privacy of his own home, lighting a doob (or even shooting heroin) isn't "getting away" with anything... he's just chilling out. Mind your own business.
2014-05-25 09:59:11 PM
1 votes:

cchris_39: We really do need to release all of the nonviolent drug offenders and anything related to marijuana.


Wait... you said something reasonable. Am I having a stroke?
2014-05-25 09:57:49 PM
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: The problem is GNP. Yep you heard that right Gov. Jerry Brown explained it 20 years ago

You have one poor guy making only 12K a year. That's 12k for GNP.

But put him her in prison he makes $0, yet you have to pay people to be guards, you have to pay people to build new prisons. You have to make contracts to feed the guy with food companies/

That one poor guy that's locked up is now provide a whole lot more to the GNP than that measly 12 k.


img2.wikia.nocookie.net
2014-05-25 09:55:17 PM
1 votes:

King Something: jamspoon: Zombalupagus: Mrbogey: America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Lol wut?

Violent crime is reducing in the UK & Europe too and we do not lock up the same numbers as the US. Some think there is a correlation with the removal of lead from petrol/gas.

All we know is....


img.metro.co.uk
2014-05-25 09:47:06 PM
1 votes:

Target Builder: fredbox: I believe a majority of states would pass a ballot measure that gave the police the right of summary execution of crime suspects.

That's basically the case already. Cops execute around 500 people a year knowing it's absurdly unlikely they will face any repercussions even in the most egregious cases.


What, you think they don't end up with pangs of regret for having to accept that paid administrative leave and promotion?
2014-05-25 09:44:40 PM
1 votes:
chapman:

But then they are only criming at other criminals, and people are okay with that.  Sort of like how prison rape is the only acceptable form of rape.  Hell, some people cheer for it if we are talking about the right brand of prisoner.

It's better to be dead than incarcerated for a very very long time. It's better to kill than to torture, which is what incarceration is whether the inmate gets raped or not.

And it's a sin to waste meat.
2014-05-25 09:37:54 PM
1 votes:

taurusowner: TheHighlandHowler: Everyone is on this bandwagon until a friend/famly-member gets robbed or worse.  Then they want to throw away the key.

Well that's why the article specifically points out the number of people who are incarcerated for non-violent crimes.


End Drug Prohibition. It's not a government's role to tell citizens what they can and cannot consume. That alone will drop the number of people incarcerated for non-violent crimes that shouldn't be crimes in the first place. And it will free up space and manpower to deal with the people who are robbing others, or worse.


It's really dumb putting addicts in prison. People still get drugs inside prison, so what's what point? There have been many high-functioning addicts that live productive lives. Alcoholics cause more problems in society than all other types of drug users combined. It's hypocritical, to say the least.

We should free drug offenders, allow them access to legal and clean/pure drugs at clinics (if that is their choice), or have programs set up for rehabilitation if they decide to get clean. Paying for someone to go to rehab for 16 months would be more cost efficient and wiser than incarcerating them for 5 years +. Providing safe access to controlled amounts of drugs would prevent crime associated with drug use, not to mention dis-empowering the Mexican drugs cartels completely. The drug war is far more violent and costly than implementing social services programs for drug addicts.

The non-violent offenders that belong in prison are the white collar criminals that commit fraud and theft. Those types of crimes need stiffer penalties...

Also - one last thing. If you don't think the clinic idea (giving away free drugs) is an effective or good idea, that system is already in place for heroin addicts. Methadone, in a lot of ways, is even worse than heroin. At least with heroin, you can quite cold turkey and not die... Addiction to harder drugs (including spirits) is a very sad thing, but we can't control the behavior of others (regarding self-medicating). It simply does not work.
2014-05-25 09:36:20 PM
1 votes:
Jim Crow 2.0
2014-05-25 09:34:57 PM
1 votes:

Dirty J1: taurusowner: Dirty J1: Yea sure..... Lets just end incarceration all together and let all these prisoners just mingle back into society...... What could possibly go wrong?

Well given that a ton of people currently incarcerated are just there for multiple instances of minor drug possession...probably nothing would go wrong. For the drug users that go out and drive or rob a liquor store, sure lock them up. But for the ones that have done absolutely nothing harmful to anyone and are only there for possessing a plant or some chemicals, it's likely that releasing them would cause no problems.

\Cop

Multiple instances of minor drug possession..... So they did it again.... And again...... And again, knowing full well they shouldn't do it. How many chances do we award people until we have to lock them up to keep them from doing it? 10, 20, 30 chances perhaps? 100 chances? 1,000? If you had maybe said "first time" drug possession then I would understand..... But the key word in your argument was "multiple."


They shouldn't be in prison for drug possession at ALL. Even IF we must have our idiotic drug prohibition, non-violent offenders should be sent to rehab, not prison. But that doesn't make the for-profit prison owners (and, in turn, their pet politicians) money!
2014-05-25 09:34:02 PM
1 votes:

Honest Bender: Stop breaking the law!


Over in 1.  If you don't want to be young, black, and in jail, don't be a criminal.
2014-05-25 09:32:56 PM
1 votes:
Stop for profit prisons.
2014-05-25 09:20:29 PM
1 votes:
Legalize pot. Release everyone who's charged only with possession or sale of pot, regardless of amount (assuming they didn't kill anyone, etc).

Also, as someone already said, abolish for profit prisons.
2014-05-25 09:12:50 PM
1 votes:

Dirty J1: I'm with you there, but unfortunately the mass majority of our fellow Americans have become pussified beyond repair and over sympathize with criminals.


Lemme guess. You're a libertarian.
2014-05-25 09:04:19 PM
1 votes:
Personally I think the thing that may have changed things the most IS the explosion of: information.  Guess what came onto the scene in 1995 in a huge way and has ONLY gotten bigger since, The Internet.  Intelligence, wisdom, and knowledge decrease stupid acts and also allow those who thought they needed to resort to crime to instead now get it in a productive manner.

Further, the article was mostly concerned with NON-VIOLENT incarcerations and their rise--so Mrbogey, I'm not sure what rape and gunmen have to do with that point, AT ALL...  The inverse relationship is a perfectly good topic and I would agree with you, but not on the point when it comes to non-violent offenders: those that steal a bag of socks, or smoke some MJ.

Lastly, the spread of information explains the drop in crime everywhere and not just the U.S....  It is hard to make a case for almost anything else.

I simply believe that we are, slowly, learning together as a species--about common sense, wisdom , and perhaps...empathy.  Once the spread of information saturates the social structure (basically a huge mass of the populace has access to the Internet or some form of information tool...at their fingertips) then I'd imagine we'll see a plateau develop, and to further decrease crime rates after this we will have to focus on those that like to LIVE in their ignorance and finally deal with the issue no one deals with: mental illness...
2014-05-25 08:57:53 PM
1 votes:
  But how will the States Attorney get elected to higher office if they can't get in from of the T.V. cameras and talk about how many people they sent to prison? How will they
get people locked up for life on even the most petty charges? If they can't lock people up for everything, then how can they claim that every criminal is the worst monster in the history
of the universe? Won't someone PLEASE think of the prosecutors?

IMHO: States Attorney and their ilk are the scummiest people. They are the collision of politician and lawyer in the worst possible way. They make their life off of the misery of others, and
aggrandize themselves in the process.
2014-05-25 08:53:33 PM
1 votes:

TheHighlandHowler: Everyone is on this bandwagon until a friend/famly-member gets robbed or worse.  Then they want to throw away the key.


Yes, I'm sure that's why there are so many in prison for non-violent offenses. Are there shades of grey in your world? Any form of nuance at all?
2014-05-25 08:47:50 PM
1 votes:
MASS CARNATION

lh4.googleusercontent.com
2014-05-25 08:44:26 PM
1 votes:

Cobblestone Flag: Wtf are you on about? Violent crime rates have been dropping like a rock over the last generation. Sorry millenials aren't Generation BTK to support your unfounded beliefs.


Oh well by all means we should let people who were put in jail back during that drop in crime right back out where they'll become productive members of society. It's a tragedy that we keep crackheads from being productive members of the community.
2014-05-25 08:43:19 PM
1 votes:
Expand death penalty crimes list, Streamline Execution process, begin progressive training at the academy for law enforcement so Judges can take to the streets. Put Dredd in charge he'll sort things out.
2014-05-25 08:38:36 PM
1 votes:

Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.


Wtf are you on about? Violent crime rates have been dropping like a rock over the last generation. Sorry millenials aren't Generation BTK to support your unfounded beliefs.
2014-05-25 08:38:12 PM
1 votes:

fusillade762: Not mentioned: abolish for-profit prisons.


Amen to this too!
2014-05-25 08:37:57 PM
1 votes:

Mrbogey: fusillade762: Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Bullshiat.

[content.gallup.com image 556x303]

Well they can't very well commit violent crime if they're in prison now can they?


Bolded to highlight your idiocy.
2014-05-25 08:35:37 PM
1 votes:

Mrbogey: Well they can't very well commit violent crime if they're in prison now can they?


2/10.

Unless you really believe that prison inmates are peaceful saints.
2014-05-25 08:34:08 PM
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: The problem is GNP. Yep you heard that right Gov. Jerry Brown explained it 20 years ago

You have one poor guy making only 12K a year. That's 12k for GNP.

But put him her in prison he makes $0, yet you have to pay people to be guards, you have to pay people to build new prisons. You have to make contracts to feed the guy with food companies/

That one poor guy that's locked up is now provide a whole lot more to the GNP than that measly 12 k.


Which is why pot will never be legalized federally.
2014-05-25 07:28:29 PM
1 votes:
Stop going to Mass!
 
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