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(The New York Times)   End Mass Incarceration Now   (nytimes.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious  
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11119 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2014 at 8:21 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-25 10:52:38 PM  
If someone has a better idea, Trot it out. I have been a big lock up the junkies for years but that my baggage we need a better solution.
 
2014-05-25 10:53:06 PM  

Myria: I swear that public schools look just like prisons these days...


See also: "school to prison pipeline"

They know by the end of kindergarten if they're grooming you for college, trades, military or prison.
 
2014-05-25 10:56:43 PM  

FrancoFile: [media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com image 240x200]


I hope you always follow the speed limit!
 
2014-05-25 10:59:25 PM  
TheWhoppah:
The French managed to do it 200 years ago.  Surely we can manage today?!?

The French aristocracy didn't have the same tools available to the ruling class today:

upload.wikimedia.org

upload.wikimedia.org

upload.wikimedia.org

and don't think they won't hesitate to use them if they stop losing their grip.
 
2014-05-25 11:00:00 PM  
err, start losing their grip.
 
2014-05-25 11:01:07 PM  

DrPainMD: Dirty J1: DrPainMD: Dirty J1: ...there are too many people who sympathize with criminals these days, so executing them would make these people sad and hurt their feelings..... And that's what America is all about these days is not hurting anyone's feelings apparently.

So, when are you going to turn yourself in? Every day you violate, at the very least, the Clean Water Act, the Clean Air Act and commit honest services fraud. Probably several times every day.

Lets see..... I don't dump toxic chemicals, i haven't removed my emissions devices from my car, and I'm not sure what "honest services fraud" is but I'm quite sure i haven't committed it. So explain how you suppose I've violated said laws. Indulge me.

Google the case law for the Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act. You most certainly violate both of them every day. You don't have to dump toxic chemicals or remove any emissions devices. Now, are you going to turn yourself in or not?


Well from reading the abridged versions I'm still in the clear. But I'm sure you spent the time reading all 200+ pages of both of them, so why don't you give some specifics then? If you're gonna talk shiat, at least have the balls to have all your ducks in a row first, so to speak.
 
2014-05-25 11:01:30 PM  

jaytkay: he "context free" graphic says "Sources: Justice Policy Institute Report: The Punishing Decade, & U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics Bulletin NCJ 219416" .

Don't strive to be an asshole. It doesn't benefit you. Seriously, just stop. You don't look smart or clever. You aren't winning anything.



Yes, but anyone can photoshop text onto a graphic. It proves less than zero.   I could make homo butt-sex graphic that says endorsed by the Vatican.  That's why a link to an actual source is nicer. Stop being so abrasive.  I'm not trying to win anything.  I'm am posting facts and you are posting insults.  Incarceration rates are falling and that appears to make you very very angry.
 
2014-05-25 11:02:54 PM  
"If there is any remaining disagreement about the destructiveness of this experiment, it mirrors the so-called debate over climate change.  In both cases, overwhelming evidence shows a crisis that threatens society as a whole."

c2.staticflickr.com
 
2014-05-25 11:05:47 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: then take this one for the good it has done and will do without shiatting all over it


Hey, I'm all for the bill, but are you sh*tting me that you think that was not pandering?

Difficulty: you're credibility is on the line, bro.
 
2014-05-25 11:06:54 PM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: If someone has a better idea, Trot it out. I have been a big lock up the junkies for years but that my baggage we need a better solution.


Junkies aren't really a drug related problem.

Junkies are a "Drugs are illegal." problem.

Black markets and poverty cause "crackheads" while addiction to the same drugs is ubequetious in many socially positive fields, such as acting and music.
 
2014-05-25 11:09:09 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: I'm am posting facts


ThrobblefootSpectre: incarceration rates have been falling for decades


img.fark.net
 
2014-05-25 11:09:10 PM  

Alleyoop: "If there is any remaining disagreement about the destructiveness of this experiment, it mirrors the so-called debate over climate change.  In both cases, overwhelming evidence shows a crisis that threatens society as a whole."

[c2.staticflickr.com image 250x272]


THIS
 
2014-05-25 11:09:49 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: WhoopAssWayne: 6-8 years of Obama backing the same policy.

Give the man credit for signing the Fair Sentencing Act into law in 2010. It reduced the sentencing disparity between crack and cocaine from 100:1 to 18:1. We have since saved half a billion dollars and 16,000 prison-years.


Crack is to cocaine as cocaine is to chewing the leaves

Fair sentencing act is not fair, the disparity was "fair" if you believe drug laws are fair
 
2014-05-25 11:10:37 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: Hey, I'm all for the bill, but are you sh*tting me that you think that was not pandering?

Difficulty: you're credibility is on the line, bro.


Call it whatever you'd like. I call it results. Lives bettered. Policy over politics.
 
2014-05-25 11:12:08 PM  

zepillin: Crack is to cocaine as cocaine is to chewing the leaves

Fair sentencing act is not fair, the disparity was "fair" if you believe drug laws are fair


I am genuinely unsure of what you're trying to say.
 
2014-05-25 11:14:25 PM  
Mrbogey

So about half for violent, a quarter for property, and a bit less than a quarter for drug related crimes.

Ish, yeah. I say we let the recreational drug-users go, at the very least. Then the purveyors who aren't involved in any violence or crimes other than possession with intent.

Rapists, murderers, recreational violence against the unwilling aficionados, thieves of other peoples' physical goods without a compelling explanation, greedy financial criminals (ha), etc...not a fark given about them, past the general "we shouldn't mistreat them in custody" caveat.
 
2014-05-25 11:14:32 PM  
jaytkay:  [img.fark.net image 693x464]

Yep, I already agreed the it has actually only been since 2006 they have been falling.  The better part of one decade. Incarceration rates are falling as the number of private prisons are increasing.  Sorry about the facts.  Post another out of context graphic though.  :)
 
2014-05-25 11:16:13 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Call it whatever you'd like. I call it results. Lives bettered. Policy over politics.


Too bad he could never better lives on a larger scale. Especially dead brown people overseas - which he promised to stop within 6 months - Bush's 4th term in action.
 
2014-05-25 11:19:03 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: Too bad he could never better lives on a larger scale. Especially dead brown people overseas - which he promised to stop within 6 months - Bush's 4th term in action.


Yeah Obama is the worst, I get it. Someone else may be interested. I am not.
 
2014-05-25 11:21:55 PM  
Well, if you live in the U.S. and breathe, You are violating a Federal Law:

"There is no one in the United States over the age of 18 who cannot be indicted for some federal crime," said John Baker, a retired Louisiana State University law professor who has also tried counting the number of new federal crimes created in recent years. "That is not an exaggeration."

/ The quote above is from the WSJ, But Fark didn't want me to link it,

// Now count the number of laws in your State, County and City that you violate!

/// I mustn't break the 3rd slashie law!
 
2014-05-25 11:23:03 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Yeah Obama is the worst, I get it. Someone else may be interested. I am not.


A Pacific NW farker repeating the usual dogma. Yep, a true original thinker.

Hey, I have an Atari shirt I could loan you, make it up?
 
2014-05-25 11:24:29 PM  
Crack is to cocaine as cocaine is to chewing the leaves


Only if you cut pussy lines (or have shiatty "coke"). Seriously, have you ever done cocaine?
 
2014-05-25 11:26:14 PM  
You don't get to build a ghetto and then decry it, no matter how much you gild its edges with your evasive tears.

Put up or shut up.

You don't get to have it both ways.
 
2014-05-25 11:32:59 PM  

Dirty J1: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Mrbogey: Fine, you're right, prisons are the reason why America's cities are turning into ghetto warzones. we gotta ban those things right away and toke on a nice spliff. Then we'll know peace.

Giving a kid a rap sheet for the heinous crime of "toking on a nice spliff" has no effect whatsoever on his chances of gainful employment.

Um yes it does in fact.


Methinks I need to make my sarcasm more explicit.

Employers are legally allowed to not hire at their will as long as its not sex/race/religion based. Employers see a rap sheet for doing drugs and they will automatically assume the worst, being that they will show up high and be a danger/nuisance. And if they got another guy with the exact same credentials but no drug history, they are going to hire the one with no drug history. Perhaps even someone with worse credentials and no drug history, because most employers would rather have an inexperienced guy who they can just train than a guy who knows what he's doing but is likely to show up high and cause accidents. Trust me on this, I've spoken with dozens upon dozens of employers, asking them what they look for in an employee. It's remarkably similar across the board, especially their hiring policies as they pertain to former druggies.

If you substitute booze for weed, you see how ridiculous the above is.  If I show up to work drunk or stoned, that's one thing.  If I got busted for possession ten years ago,  it's absurd to continue to exclude me from employment, from housing, from education.  It all but ensures that I'm going to do something far worse than smoking a joint.  People have this funny habit of not starving quietly.

But right wing loons like Mrbogey think that's fine and dandy.
 
2014-05-25 11:39:05 PM  
zepillin:

Crack is to cocaine as cocaine is to chewing the leaves

Crack is to cocaine as black is to white.

If a poor black kid smokes cocaine, it's crack. If a rich white kid smokes cocaine, it's free-base.
 
2014-05-25 11:42:09 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: If I got busted for possession ten years ago,  it's absurd to continue to exclude me from employment, from housing, from education.  It all but ensures that I'm going to do something far worse than smoking a joint.


So you are saying that pot is a gateway drug and, since those busted for possession are doomed to a life of more serious crime, we should go ahead and imprison them for 50 years for possession... just to be safe.  Hell, might as well execute them since they'll never amount to nuthin' anyhow.
 
2014-05-25 11:44:10 PM  

kvinesknows: fusillade762: kvinesknows: simple solution.

every convict is put in isolation. only out for visitations, trials, medical issues

That's your solution to what, exactly? Prisoner sanity?

them still being in gangs.. them learning new "skills" them thinking that jail is "easy" and hey even if I get life I still get hot food.. warm bed.. drugs.. alcohol and SEX!

give em books.  lots of books.  have radio broadcast throughout the jail.. no choice.. just one channel.

put em all in isolation.  they will learn that jail is not something to look forward too.


That's just dandy if you never plan on letting them out again.

Negative psychological effects have been documented,[48] leading one judge in a 2001 suit to rule that "[Solitary confinement] units are virtual incubators of psychoses-seeding illness in otherwise healthy inmates and exacerbating illness in those already suffering from mental infirmities."

But from your tone you sound like you'd be just fine with that.
 
2014-05-25 11:50:26 PM  

profplump: TheHighlandHowler: Then they want to throw away the key.

Which is why we don't let victims of crime determine the punishment for offenders.


Y'know, whereas I get the gist of your comment, and getting impartial unemotional parties to judge the crime, I really think the opposite.
Victims SHOULD be the ones to judge a crime because they have been through the experience.

If my home gets burgled, I don't want a third party coming in and saying " well, it was an old laptop that has low resale value, and old picture frames".
That third party has no idea about the sadness of losing irreplaceable pictures and what the files on my laptop meant to me.
That third party can only imagine how jumpy I am now, how uneasy my sleep is and how even that can affect the quality of family life when you are on edge come nightfall.

And this isn't even touching on the effects of violent crimes.
 
2014-05-25 11:51:28 PM  

FormlessOne: But... this is what we wanted.
For more than three decades, since Saint Ronnie made being "tough on crime" a directive to the cheers of the majority of Americans, we've managed to incarcerate anyone who would dare disturb that status quo. We kept - nay, reinforced - those policies through the presidencies of Bush, Clinton, Dubya, and now Obama. The "War on Drugs", the "War on Immigration", the "War on the Poor" - remember, we don't incarcerate the rich, because they're worth more out of prison. The poor, on the other hand, are a vast labor pool and, thanks to the prison environment & the stigma of being incarcerated, are more likely to come back. The rich and middle class make quite a bit of money off the incarceration and exploitation of the imprisoned, and so, hey, it's just business now.

If this wasn't what we wanted, why did we sign off on it, over and over again, for more than three decades? I mean, other than the "well, that only happens to bad people, so I'm OK with it" canard? Why did we keep electing assholes to office on that very platform? Why do we continue to back assholes who keep pushing for more prisons, faster executions, longer sentences, and more exploitation of prisoners while incarcerated?

Where do we put the blame? That's easy - us. We did this, cheerfully, willfully, and with the idea that we were making a better America. Our crime rate dropped, but in return we've given unprecedented power to law enforcement and made money off imprisoning drug users and hookers, even as white-collar criminals steal billions with not so much as a slap on the wrist. You're more likely to go to prison for stealing $20 than you are $20 million - and we're apparently OK with that, because we've not yet formed a mob to drag out and beat the folks on Wall Street that managed to make billions and billions of our dollars vanish, only to turn up with huge bonuses and knowing grins on their faces.

We did this. We have the power to undo it, as well. How many of you ar ...


cdn.gifbay.com
 
2014-05-25 11:54:35 PM  

Dirty J1: grimlock1972: easy way to solve this : end the war on drugs , legalize them,   this alone would drop the crime rate and number of new incarcerated by leaps and bounds.

While your at it ban for profit prisons.

I'd agree with you under strict stipulations: one, only drugs that can be grown naturally. Anything that needs to be cooked up in a lab or have to have chemicals added are still illegal. And 2, enforce drug use about the same as alcohol. Alcohol isn't illegal but drinking and driving is, so being high and driving would need to be illegal. Of course they'd need accurate field tests similar to breathalyzers first.


Works for me.
 
2014-05-26 12:01:16 AM  

fusillade762: Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Bullshiat.

[content.gallup.com image 556x303]


What would today's violent crime rate be if we emptied the prisons?  HINT: It'd be higher, and that's what we're avoiding with current policy.
 
2014-05-26 12:03:04 AM  
Resident Muslim

Victims SHOULD be the ones to judge a crime because they have been through the experience.

I get the emotional appeal of this, really, but that's exactly why we can't implement it. Your kid trespasses on my lawn one too many times, I decide he should be killed for it, you kill me in retaliation, and pretty soon it's all blood-feuds and our great-grandchildren having doomed romances.

Relatively equal application of the law by hopefully impartial peers is usually much more fair, overall.
 
2014-05-26 12:08:36 AM  
The reason crime has gone down is that more of the criminal element is locked away.
Lets be honest about it... most crime is perpetrated by men under age 40.
Realistic might be to release prisons over 40 but then execute anyone over 40 that commits any offense after being released from prison.
Also we should put a big tattoo on every prisoner's penis.
Not only will the pain of this be a general deterrent to crime, it will serve as fair warning to any female that chooses to become romantically involved with an ex-convict.
This will allow us to feel good about being judgey about her too.
 
2014-05-26 12:10:30 AM  

Facetious_Speciest: Relatively equal application of the law by hopefully impartial peers is usually much more fair, overall.


Thats the system we have now and people are still biatching about it.
 
2014-05-26 12:12:41 AM  

SunsetLament: fusillade762: Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Bullshiat.

[content.gallup.com image 556x303]

What would today's violent crime rate be if we emptied the prisons?  HINT: It'd be higher, and that's what we're avoiding with current policy.


Well as long as YOU feel safer with all those pot smokers locked up I guess that's all that matters.
 
2014-05-26 12:33:10 AM  

fusillade762: kvinesknows: fusillade762: kvinesknows: simple solution.

every convict is put in isolation. only out for visitations, trials, medical issues

That's your solution to what, exactly? Prisoner sanity?

them still being in gangs.. them learning new "skills" them thinking that jail is "easy" and hey even if I get life I still get hot food.. warm bed.. drugs.. alcohol and SEX!

give em books.  lots of books.  have radio broadcast throughout the jail.. no choice.. just one channel.

put em all in isolation.  they will learn that jail is not something to look forward too.

That's just dandy if you never plan on letting them out again.

Negative psychological effects have been documented,[48] leading one judge in a 2001 suit to rule that "[Solitary confinement] units are virtual incubators of psychoses-seeding illness in otherwise healthy inmates and exacerbating illness in those already suffering from mental infirmities."

But from your tone you sound like you'd be just fine with that.



meh
 
2014-05-26 12:36:30 AM  

SunsetLament: fusillade762: Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Bullshiat.

[content.gallup.com image 556x303]

What would today's violent crime rate be if we emptied the prisons?  HINT: It'd be higher, and that's what we're avoiding with current policy.


Who's talking about emptying the prisons? We're talking about not locking up non-violent criminals. Again, do you people have no shades of gray in your lives? Do you not understand nuance?
 
2014-05-26 12:43:46 AM  

Ed Grubermann: SunsetLament: fusillade762: Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Bullshiat.

[content.gallup.com image 556x303]

What would today's violent crime rate be if we emptied the prisons?  HINT: It'd be higher, and that's what we're avoiding with current policy.

Who's talking about emptying the prisons? We're talking about not locking up non-violent criminals. Again, do you people have no shades of gray in your lives? Do you not understand nuance?


No, it's just that I have a background in the criminal justice system (both law enforcement and legal) and therefore am aware of (and acknowledge) reality ... which is ... we don't "lock-up" non-violent criminals unless (a) we are certain they are involved in violent crime - it's just we can't prove it in a courtroom beyond all reasonable doubt, or (b) we are certain they have information about those involved in violent crime that they refuse to disclose.  We don't have the manpower to go around arresting and prosecuting the pothead consumer/user on the corner absent other reasons.
 
2014-05-26 12:48:16 AM  
When I was 17 I was talked into selling a 20$ bag of weed to a guy who was in a work truck, both covered in paint, because he had been painting houses all day. Turns out he was an undercover, and one of the people who hung around, who I think was a confidential informant, introduced us and the deal happened. I was not out looking to sell, and I rarely sold to anyone, usually just a small amount to a friend who asked.

The painter guy showed up at my door a few months later just after my 18th B-Day in a "Narcotics" shirt and arrested me (ex-girlfriend answered the door). I assume they had been watching the place. I was charged with 2 drug felonies 'Distribution of Marijuana' and 'Possession of Marijuana with Intent to Distribute' for the original sale and I ended up in a jail, bailed out, and got picked up a couple years later when i missed the court date (100% my fault).

About 6-7 weeks later in jail I finally got to talk with the court appointed attorney who was literally tapping his foot and looking at his watch as I was telling him I believed I had a case for entrapment, because I even expressed hesitation during the deal because I was selling weed out of my personal bag, and it didn't leave me with a lot to last the night, nor did I posses the weed with the intent to sell in the first place. He told me in a subtle irritated way that I sold the weed, and that's how the court will see it and i may have to wait in jail for the court date and my best option was to plea first-offender to the 2 felonies and the judge will probly accept it.

So I did, and got 5 years probation, (6 months intense probation) community service, fee's, fines, drug risk assessment etc... Almost 2 years later, I got a DUI and was retried on the original 2 felonies because of the "first-offender" plea. i was sentenced to 6 months in county jail, more fines, community service etc...(not counting the probation, community service, losing fine's etc.. for the DUI arrest) i believe I lost my licence longer because of "dangerous drugs" along with the DUI.

Paid alot of money, did alot of community service, dealt with alot of stress, and generally felt like my life was on hold for many years, and to this day I have 2 drug felonies on my record, because of a little amount of weed. In-farking-sane. I kept putting off school or getting optimistic about life, with that hanging over my head.

/All I got out of it was the knowledge of how to cook a meat loaf out of ramen noodles, beef jerky, pretzels, doritos, saved sausage and eggs from breakfast plus whatever else is around in a trash bag. Used to look forward to it every week on store-day.
 
2014-05-26 12:55:38 AM  
Tetrazphere:

So, any hope for recovery, or is your life effectively over now?
 
2014-05-26 12:59:15 AM  

fredbox: Tetrazphere:

So, any hope for recovery, or is your life effectively over now?


I've been off probation for a few years now, The only thing that's not going away is the 2 drug felonies on my record.
 
2014-05-26 01:10:45 AM  

The One True TheDavid: Mrbogey: Well they can't very well commit violent crime if they're in prison now can they?

2/10.

Unless you really believe that prison inmates are peaceful saints.


I don't give a fark if they are peaceful saints or not. They are not on the street farking up my (or anyone I care about) life. As far as I'm concerned, built a jail with only outside walls. No beds, no TV, everyone who goes in is in general population. Let them beat each other to death... or not. I don't care about them anymore. As long as I'm safe on the outside.

You tell me that wouldn't make some gang bangers think twice.
 
2014-05-26 01:25:48 AM  

DaStompa: TheWhoppah: About 2% of the population are unfit for civil society.  The safest way to "end mass incarceration" is to simply execute them.

Unfortunately they are super rich and generally own society and the courts so executing them legally is rather difficult.


this
www.designofsignage.com
 
2014-05-26 01:29:21 AM  

SunsetLament: Ed Grubermann: SunsetLament: fusillade762: Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Bullshiat.

[content.gallup.com image 556x303]

What would today's violent crime rate be if we emptied the prisons?  HINT: It'd be higher, and that's what we're avoiding with current policy.

Who's talking about emptying the prisons? We're talking about not locking up non-violent criminals. Again, do you people have no shades of gray in your lives? Do you not understand nuance?

No, it's just that I have a background in the criminal justice system (both law enforcement and legal) and therefore am aware of (and acknowledge) reality ... which is ... we don't "lock-up" non-violent criminals unless (a) we are certain they are involved in violent crime - it's just we can't prove it in a courtroom beyond all reasonable doubt, or (b) we are certain they have information about those involved in violent crime that they refuse to disclose.  We don't have the manpower to go around arresting and prosecuting the pothead consumer/user on the corner absent other reasons.


Either you're completely full of shiat or our criminal justice system it broken beyond repair.
 
2014-05-26 01:32:01 AM  

Tetrazphere: fredbox: Tetrazphere:

So, any hope for recovery, or is your life effectively over now?

I've been off probation for a few years now, The only thing that's not going away is the 2 drug felonies on my record.


Do you live in a state where expungement is possible? Do you have a hope of a career (not that careers these days are much hope themselves)?
 
2014-05-26 01:42:45 AM  

TheWhoppah: The reason crime has gone down is that more of the criminal element is locked away.
Lets be honest about it... most crime is perpetrated by men under age 40.
Realistic might be to release prisons over 40 but then execute anyone over 40 that commits any offense after being released from prison.
Also we should put a big tattoo on every prisoner's penis.
Not only will the pain of this be a general deterrent to crime, it will serve as fair warning to any female that chooses to become romantically involved with an ex-convict.
This will allow us to feel good about being judgey about her too.


hahahaha
that is a GREAT theory
except that the majority of those in prison are there for NON-violent offenses ... 3rd strike, carry weight of weed.
the drop has been VIOLENT CRIME .....

So unless you are arguing all those non-violent citizens would also have sooner or later moved on to VIOLENT crime, you would be wrong.

And there is NO evidence that any of those people would have done so.
/bah
 
2014-05-26 01:46:15 AM  
I have an honest question. There seems to be a pretty obvious correlation (yes, I know, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation) between tougher criminal penalties and lower crime rates. Isn't there a possibility that we are catching non-violent offenders before they become violent offenders? Do we really believe these numbers are simply a coincidence?
 
2014-05-26 01:51:39 AM  

fusillade762: SunsetLament: Ed Grubermann: SunsetLament: fusillade762: Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Bullshiat.

[content.gallup.com image 556x303]

What would today's violent crime rate be if we emptied the prisons?  HINT: It'd be higher, and that's what we're avoiding with current policy.

Who's talking about emptying the prisons? We're talking about not locking up non-violent criminals. Again, do you people have no shades of gray in your lives? Do you not understand nuance?

No, it's just that I have a background in the criminal justice system (both law enforcement and legal) and therefore am aware of (and acknowledge) reality ... which is ... we don't "lock-up" non-violent criminals unless (a) we are certain they are involved in violent crime - it's just we can't prove it in a courtroom beyond all reasonable doubt, or (b) we are certain they have information about those involved in violent crime that they refuse to disclose.  We don't have the manpower to go around arresting and prosecuting the pothead consumer/user on the corner absent other reasons.

Either you're completely full of shiat or our criminal justice system it broken beyond repair.


Hahaha, you think we run around seeing how many dopeheads we can lock up because we have nothing better to do.

"Hey Lieutenant, Bob and I thought we'd go down to the local High Times store and arrest a few of the potheads that come out because we have nothing more important to do," said no police detective ever.

"Hey Police Detective Joe, you know that non-violent pothead who isn't involved in any other crime that you arrested the other night?  I can't wait to press that one because I have nothing better to do this week," said no prosecutor ever.
 
2014-05-26 01:53:34 AM  

FredPhelp'slovechild: I have an honest question. There seems to be a pretty obvious correlation (yes, I know, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation) between tougher criminal penalties and lower crime rates. Isn't there a possibility that we are catching non-violent offenders before they become violent offenders? Do we really believe these numbers are simply a coincidence?


There is.  There is also a gigantic possibility that we are prosecuting violent offenders for non-violent crimes because we can't make the violent crime prosecution stick.
 
2014-05-26 01:57:07 AM  

boyvoyeur: The One True TheDavid: Mrbogey: Well they can't very well commit violent crime if they're in prison now can they?

2/10.

Unless you really believe that prison inmates are peaceful saints.

I don't give a fark if they are peaceful saints or not. They are not on the street farking up my (or anyone I care about) life. As far as I'm concerned, built a jail with only outside walls. No beds, no TV, everyone who goes in is in general population. Let them beat each other to death... or not. I don't care about them anymore. As long as I'm safe on the outside.

You tell me that wouldn't make some gang bangers think twice.


Probably wont make them think twice about much of anything other than fighting to the death with police and killing witnesses to to avoid prison.
 
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