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(The New York Times)   End Mass Incarceration Now   (nytimes.com) divider line 342
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11086 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2014 at 8:21 PM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-25 10:01:04 PM  
Based on the headline alone, the author wants

*Churches to keep their doors open during summer months

*Baryonic matter to be converted to more leptons

*North Korea to open its borders

The remaining subject is boring.
 
2014-05-25 10:02:02 PM  

Mrbogey: It's called an inverse relationship


Except the crime rate was dropping before the incarceration rate went up.
 
2014-05-25 10:02:40 PM  

flemardo: I read that as mass incineration. I guess that would be a solution to mass incarceration though.


A final solution.
 
2014-05-25 10:02:53 PM  

The Flexecutioner: im all for releasing a shiat load of them but good luck finding work.


There's plenty of work to do. We just have to pay for it.
 
2014-05-25 10:03:09 PM  

fusillade762: kvinesknows: simple solution.

every convict is put in isolation. only out for visitations, trials, medical issues

That's your solution to what, exactly? Prisoner sanity?



Ha, that's silly. We would of course put lithium in the water.
 
2014-05-25 10:03:42 PM  
Another problem with prison: It puts people who are rogues, scoundrels and only sort-of losers in contact with people who have lost all concept of human empathy and who are big-time losers. I'd say the former learn more from the latter than the latter do from the former.
 
2014-05-25 10:04:09 PM  

FormlessOne: For more than three decades, since Saint Ronnie made being "tough on crime" a directive


8 years of Clinton backing the same policy.
6-8 years of Obama backing the same policy.

Seems like you have 14-16 years of explaining to do.
 
2014-05-25 10:04:13 PM  

Prophet of Loss: tinfoil-hat maggie: The problem is GNP. Yep you heard that right Gov. Jerry Brown explained it 20 years ago

You have one poor guy making only 12K a year. That's 12k for GNP.

But put him her in prison he makes $0, yet you have to pay people to be guards, you have to pay people to build new prisons. You have to make contracts to feed the guy with food companies/

That one poor guy that's locked up is now provide a whole lot more to the GNP than that measly 12 k.

[img2.wikia.nocookie.net image 458x320]


Ding ding ding...
 
2014-05-25 10:04:14 PM  

TheWhoppah: About 2% of the population are unfit for civil society.  The safest way to "end mass incarceration" is to simply execute them.


Unfortunately they are super rich and generally own society and the courts so executing them legally is rather difficult.
 
2014-05-25 10:04:45 PM  

AgentPothead: MrBogey, you are the reason the rest of the planet hates the United States and the reason the rest of the universe hates Earth. Sleep well you piece of shiat.


Well, I have AgentPothead pissed at me. I guess I really farked up somewhere.

Fine, you're right, prisons are the reason why America's cities are turning into ghetto warzones. we gotta ban those things right away and toke on a nice spliff. Then we'll know peace.
 
2014-05-25 10:05:27 PM  
Perhaps it's time to revisit and remove the 3 strikes laws.  That's what's causing us the trouble, the automatic amplification of sentences for repeat offenders.  That's how non-violent offenders end up serving craploads of time for minor infractions.
 
2014-05-25 10:06:19 PM  

jaytkay: WTF?  Here's your incarceration rate "falling for decades".



google

Yeah, I'll trust these 5000 sources over a pixellated looking jpg without any context which could have been done in 3 minutes by a 5th grader and posted on fark.
 
2014-05-25 10:08:19 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Perhaps it's time to revisit and remove the 3 strikes laws.  That's what's causing us the trouble, the automatic amplification of sentences for repeat offenders.  That's how non-violent offenders end up serving craploads of time for minor infractions.


Three felonies are minor?  I though that was called "misdemeanor."
 
2014-05-25 10:08:19 PM  
Fewer laws.  Harsher penalties.

More money in addiction therapies, social training, etc.
 
2014-05-25 10:08:39 PM  

DrPainMD: Dirty J1: Yeah sure so lets just let them get away with it, no big deal. Why even bother making laws for anything if we don't enforce them. And what do you suppose is an appropriate permanent solution? Rehab? Fines?

How about repealing all drug laws and leaving people alone? Can't have that in the land of the free, can we? A guy sitting in the privacy of his own home, lighting a doob (or even shooting heroin) isn't "getting away" with anything... he's just chilling out. Mind your own business.


Maybe true for those guys but what about those that don't just stay home and chill? The ones that go to work high or go on joyrides and cause harm and damage to others. I'd say preventing this sort of thing by holding all drug users to the same legal standards, even those who just "chill", is alot better then just letting folks do whatever drugs they want and having to pick up the pieces and clean up the damage after those that don't just "chill."
 
2014-05-25 10:09:32 PM  

The One True TheDavid: Incarcerate ENERGY instead!


/dnrtfa, yet


Mass would still be a factor.

/I c what you did there
//squared
 
2014-05-25 10:09:42 PM  

jaytkay: WTF?  Here's your incarceration rate "falling for decades".


BTW - funny thing about that graphic.  It cites its source as dated 1986, and shows data up to 2000+.  Think about it.  Lol.
 
2014-05-25 10:10:00 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: 6-8 years of Obama backing the same policy.


Give the man credit for signing the Fair Sentencing Act into law in 2010. It reduced the sentencing disparity between crack and cocaine from 100:1 to 18:1. We have since saved half a billion dollars and 16,000 prison-years.
 
2014-05-25 10:11:06 PM  

Dirty J1: limboslam: You know, every once in a while, I try to get a little concerned about prisoners in America....and then it just goes away. F 'em. Don't care.

I'm with you there, but unfortunately the mass majority of our fellow Americans have become pussified beyond repair and over sympathize with criminals. That's why we keep them alive, pamper them, and spend ungodly amounts of taxpayer money on them. Did you know it takes around 40 to 60,000 a year to keep a prisoner incarcerated, not including their educational benefits? Most people don't make that in a year working their Asses off.


Better to spend a year busting your ass a free man than it is to be locked up and farked in the ass.
 
2014-05-25 10:11:59 PM  

Snarfangel: fusillade762: kvinesknows: simple solution.

every convict is put in isolation. only out for visitations, trials, medical issues

That's your solution to what, exactly? Prisoner sanity?


Ha, that's silly. We would of course put lithium in the water.


That's really not a bad idea.
 
2014-05-25 10:12:29 PM  
I know... We'll end recidivism by making everyone sit down with a really annoying social worker, who takes them through a long and tyring interview process that makes the convict so annoyed they'll never do anything questionable again just to avoid the social worker.
 
2014-05-25 10:12:49 PM  
easy way to solve this : end the war on drugs , legalize them,   this alone would drop the crime rate and number of new incarcerated by leaps and bounds.

While your at it ban for profit prisons.
 
2014-05-25 10:12:56 PM  
If we need more prisons then build more prisons.

That's where bad people belong.
 
2014-05-25 10:15:08 PM  
We just need to start having prisoners build prison and staff them.

I call it the "Xzibit Solution".
 
2014-05-25 10:15:10 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: jaytkay: WTF?  Here's your incarceration rate "falling for decades".


google

Yeah, I'll trust these 5000 sources over a pixellated looking jpg without any context which could have been done in 3 minutes by a 5th grader and posted on fark.


So you think 5 years equals decades.

That explains your belief. Enjoy.
 
2014-05-25 10:16:17 PM  

Mrbogey: Fine, you're right, prisons are the reason why America's cities are turning into ghetto warzones. we gotta ban those things right away and toke on a nice spliff. Then we'll know peace.


Giving a kid a rap sheet for the heinous crime of "toking on a nice spliff" has no effect whatsoever on his chances of gainful employment.
 
2014-05-25 10:18:30 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: jaytkay: WTF?  Here's your incarceration rate "falling for decades".

BTW - funny thing about that graphic.  It cites its source as dated 1986, and shows data up to 2000+.  Think about it.  Lol.


Doh! You're right. That was a projected rate.

But you're still deluded about the rate falling for decades.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-05-25 10:23:35 PM  

rkiller1: Mr. Eugenides: Perhaps it's time to revisit and remove the 3 strikes laws.  That's what's causing us the trouble, the automatic amplification of sentences for repeat offenders.  That's how non-violent offenders end up serving craploads of time for minor infractions.

Three felonies are minor?  I though that was called "misdemeanor."


You pretend like the part where misdemeanors turn into felonies for repeat offenders doesn't exist.
 
2014-05-25 10:24:15 PM  

grimlock1972: easy way to solve this : end the war on drugs , legalize them,   this alone would drop the crime rate and number of new incarcerated by leaps and bounds.

While your at it ban for profit prisons.


I'd agree with you under strict stipulations: one, only drugs that can be grown naturally. Anything that needs to be cooked up in a lab or have to have chemicals added are still illegal. And 2, enforce drug use about the same as alcohol. Alcohol isn't illegal but drinking and driving is, so being high and driving would need to be illegal. Of course they'd need accurate field tests similar to breathalyzers first.
 
2014-05-25 10:24:44 PM  
A former boss came up with a solution for the problem behind the problem: laws should be renewed every year. That way the stupid ones which are mainly used to heckle the general population would go away and we could concentrate on the important ones.

/Liek the wurr on drugs!
 
2014-05-25 10:25:32 PM  

fusillade762: Mrbogey: fusillade762: Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Bullshiat.

[content.gallup.com image 556x303]

Well they can't very well commit violent crime if they're in prison now can they?

Bolded to highlight your idiocy.


Perhaps criminals are becoming more American. It works the same way, right?
 
2014-05-25 10:25:38 PM  
I don't know about the rest of Mass but the Red Sox definitely should go to prison for felony sucking.
 
2014-05-25 10:26:08 PM  
Around 1/3 of all federal prisoners are illegal immigrants. Nobody is put into federal prison simply for being an illegal alien, meaning they are committing other crimes to get there.
 
2014-05-25 10:26:13 PM  

DaStompa: TheWhoppah: About 2% of the population are unfit for civil society.  The safest way to "end mass incarceration" is to simply execute them.

Unfortunately they are super rich and generally own society and the courts so executing them legally is rather difficult.


^^ sadly, THIS ^^  (Well played, Mr. Stompa!)
 
2014-05-25 10:26:17 PM  

FormlessOne: For more than three decades, since Saint Ronnie made being "tough on crime" a directive to the cheers of the majority of Americans, we've managed to incarcerate anyone who would dare disturb that status quo. We kept - nay, reinforced - those policies through the presidencies of Bush, Clinton, Dubya, and now Obama. The "War on Drugs", the "War on Immigration", the "War on the Poor" - remember, we don't incarcerate the rich, because they're worth more out of prison. The poor, on the other hand, are a vast labor pool and, thanks to the prison environment & the stigma of being incarcerated, are more likely to come back. The rich and middle class make quite a bit of money off the incarceration and exploitation of the imprisoned, and so, hey, it's just business now.


And then the same yahoos who voted for paramilitary law enforcement because MAH OPPONENT IS SOFT ON CRAHME! got up in arms, in some cases literally, when paramilitary law enforcement went after a deadbeat rancher.
 
2014-05-25 10:27:25 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Give the man credit for signing the Fair Sentencing Act into law in 2010. It reduced the sentencing disparity between crack and cocaine from 100:1 to 18:1. We have since saved half a billion dollars and 16,000 prison-years.


That is an improvement, yet one racially motivated, and not any sort of solution. It's pure pandering. But, you take what you can get.

Frankly, I think it typifies what Obama thinks is public policy - something that personally helps him....

The DEA is an Executive level office. He could shut it all down on the first day he took office, but didn't. Too many payoffs prison-related campaign contributions.
 
2014-05-25 10:28:08 PM  

jaytkay: ThrobblefootSpectre: jaytkay: WTF?  Here's your incarceration rate "falling for decades".

BTW - funny thing about that graphic.  It cites its source as dated 1986, and shows data up to 2000+.  Think about it.  Lol.

Doh! You're right. That was a projected rate.

But you're still deluded about the rate falling for decades.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 693x464]


Two things happened in the early 80s that I think are factors.  The War on Drugs was in full effect.  Reagan gave amnesty to millions of illegals. This embolded millions of others to jump the border and have led to where we were.
 
2014-05-25 10:28:51 PM  

fusillade762: kvinesknows: simple solution.

every convict is put in isolation. only out for visitations, trials, medical issues

That's your solution to what, exactly? Prisoner sanity?


them still being in gangs.. them learning new "skills" them thinking that jail is "easy" and hey even if I get life I still get hot food.. warm bed.. drugs.. alcohol and SEX!


give em books.  lots of books.  have radio broadcast throughout the jail.. no choice.. just one channel.

put em all in isolation.  they will learn that jail is not something to look forward too.
 
2014-05-25 10:29:34 PM  

jaytkay: But you're still deluded about the rate falling for decades.


Ill trust linked sources rather than a context free graphic thanks.   But yes it appears to only be a trend of about 8 years,turning right around 2006. According to the googled articles.  Interesting how that coincides with the rise of private prisons.
 
2014-05-25 10:31:54 PM  

Prophet of Loss: tinfoil-hat maggie: The problem is GNP. Yep you heard that right Gov. Jerry Brown explained it 20 years ago

You have one poor guy making only 12K a year. That's 12k for GNP.

But put him her in prison he makes $0, yet you have to pay people to be guards, you have to pay people to build new prisons. You have to make contracts to feed the guy with food companies/

That one poor guy that's locked up is now provide a whole lot more to the GNP than that measly 12 k.

[img2.wikia.nocookie.net image 458x320]


Beautiful.
 
2014-05-25 10:33:17 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Mrbogey: Fine, you're right, prisons are the reason why America's cities are turning into ghetto warzones. we gotta ban those things right away and toke on a nice spliff. Then we'll know peace.

Giving a kid a rap sheet for the heinous crime of "toking on a nice spliff" has no effect whatsoever on his chances of gainful employment.


Um yes it does in fact. Employers are legally allowed to not hire at their will as long as its not sex/race/religion based. Employers see a rap sheet for doing drugs and they will automatically assume the worst, being that they will show up high and be a danger/nuisance. And if they got another guy with the exact same credentials but no drug history, they are going to hire the one with no drug history. Perhaps even someone with worse credentials and no drug history, because most employers would rather have an inexperienced guy who they can just train than a guy who knows what he's doing but is likely to show up high and cause accidents. Trust me on this, I've spoken with dozens upon dozens of employers, asking them what they look for in an employee. It's remarkably similar across the board, especially their hiring policies as they pertain to former druggies.
 
2014-05-25 10:34:08 PM  

TheOther: Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Only if NYC can toss every gunman, rapist and burglar from NY into the French Quarter: fair is fair.

Why are Americans are becoming more criminal?


Philip Zimbardo knows why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYre8SlOO_k
 
2014-05-25 10:38:12 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: That is an improvement, yet one racially motivated, and not any sort of solution. It's pure pandering. But, you take what you can get.


The sentencing disparity of the original law was racially motivated, so yeah, it follows changing that law has something to do with race. 16,000 less years spent in prison is not pandering, it's results. It's part of the solution. It's a step in the right direction. If you'll "take what you can get", then take this one for the good it has done and will do without shiatting all over it. Progress is incremental. Recognize and cheer a victory when you see one.
 
2014-05-25 10:38:14 PM  

Mrbogey: AgentPothead: MrBogey, you are the reason the rest of the planet hates the United States and the reason the rest of the universe hates Earth. Sleep well you piece of shiat.

Well, I have AgentPothead pissed at me. I guess I really farked up somewhere.

Fine, you're right, prisons are the reason why America's cities are turning into ghetto warzones. we gotta ban those things right away and toke on a nice spliff. Then we'll know peace.


Haha.

So, just out of curiosity, do you ever not troll?
 
2014-05-25 10:41:24 PM  

Dirty J1: DrPainMD: Dirty J1: Yeah sure so lets just let them get away with it, no big deal. Why even bother making laws for anything if we don't enforce them. And what do you suppose is an appropriate permanent solution? Rehab? Fines?

How about repealing all drug laws and leaving people alone? Can't have that in the land of the free, can we? A guy sitting in the privacy of his own home, lighting a doob (or even shooting heroin) isn't "getting away" with anything... he's just chilling out. Mind your own business.

Maybe true for those guys but what about those that don't just stay home and chill? The ones that go to work high or go on joyrides and cause harm and damage to others. I'd say preventing this sort of thing by holding all drug users to the same legal standards, even those who just "chill", is alot better then just letting folks do whatever drugs they want and having to pick up the pieces and clean up the damage after those that don't just "chill."


Until someone's rights are violated, there is no crime. Unless you subscribe to the philosophy that it's better to have 100 innocent men in prison than to have 1 guilty man go free.
 
2014-05-25 10:43:31 PM  

Dirty J1: DrPainMD: Dirty J1: ...there are too many people who sympathize with criminals these days, so executing them would make these people sad and hurt their feelings..... And that's what America is all about these days is not hurting anyone's feelings apparently.

So, when are you going to turn yourself in? Every day you violate, at the very least, the Clean Water Act, the Clean Air Act and commit honest services fraud. Probably several times every day.

Lets see..... I don't dump toxic chemicals, i haven't removed my emissions devices from my car, and I'm not sure what "honest services fraud" is but I'm quite sure i haven't committed it. So explain how you suppose I've violated said laws. Indulge me.


Google the case law for the Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act. You most certainly violate both of them every day. You don't have to dump toxic chemicals or remove any emissions devices. Now, are you going to turn yourself in or not?
 
2014-05-25 10:47:58 PM  
I swear that public schools look just like prisons these days...
 
2014-05-25 10:48:39 PM  
400 people in the USA own half the wealth. Until this wealth and future income is spent on making this country a better place for all of its inhabitants, you may as well just build more prisons. Some greedy mofos out there who see money as a way of keeping score, not as a way of improving the quality of life in the world they share.
 
2014-05-25 10:50:19 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Ill trust linked sources rather than a context free graphic thanks


The "context free" graphic says "Sources: Justice Policy Institute Report: The Punishing Decade, & U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics Bulletin NCJ 219416" .

Don't strive to be an asshole. It doesn't benefit you. Seriously, just stop. You don't look smart or clever. You aren't winning anything.
 
2014-05-25 10:52:33 PM  

DaStompa: TheWhoppah: About 2% of the population are unfit for civil society.  The safest way to "end mass incarceration" is to simply execute them.

Unfortunately they are super rich and generally own society and the courts so executing them legally is rather difficult.


The French managed to do it 200 years ago.  Surely we can manage today?!?
jspivey.wikispaces.com

Oh, and they also ended mass incarceration at the Bastille:
www.history.com
 
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