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(The New York Times)   End Mass Incarceration Now   (nytimes.com) divider line 342
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11090 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2014 at 8:21 PM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-25 08:55:52 PM  

fusillade762: Mrbogey: fusillade762: Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Bullshiat.

[content.gallup.com image 556x303]

Well they can't very well commit violent crime if they're in prison now can they?

Bolded to highlight your idiocy.


Well, they only ever add laws to the books. I'd bet there's something in the DMCA that makes viewing Fark threads with a picture block illegal.

Mostly by removing the lead from the gasoline, Americans are less violent and more empathic than they were in the 70s and 80s. But that rapid removal of lead in the 70s reduced blood levels in kids during important formative years that translated to teens and young adults less prone to violence by the early 90s.

Unlike the abortion connection, the leaded gas connection happened in other countries. If the connection holds, even Mexico should get less violent since they finally got the lead out in the 00s, then the kids grow up less violent and the violent adults mellow out in their 30s.

The world is getting better, even if all you see is shiat.
 
2014-05-25 08:56:32 PM  

Mrbogey: America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.


The violent crime rate has plummeted in the US. It's half of what it was in the late 80s/early 90s.
 
2014-05-25 08:57:53 PM  
  But how will the States Attorney get elected to higher office if they can't get in from of the T.V. cameras and talk about how many people they sent to prison? How will they
get people locked up for life on even the most petty charges? If they can't lock people up for everything, then how can they claim that every criminal is the worst monster in the history
of the universe? Won't someone PLEASE think of the prosecutors?

IMHO: States Attorney and their ilk are the scummiest people. They are the collision of politician and lawyer in the worst possible way. They make their life off of the misery of others, and
aggrandize themselves in the process.
 
2014-05-25 08:58:20 PM  

Ed Grubermann: TheHighlandHowler: Everyone is on this bandwagon until a friend/famly-member gets robbed or worse.  Then they want to throw away the key.

Yes, I'm sure that's why there are so many in prison for non-violent offenses. Are there shades of grey in your world? Any form of nuance at all?


Just the smut and the software company that makes the Dragon software that types his rants.
 
2014-05-25 09:00:36 PM  
i.imgur.com

Technically, this meme isn't quite accurate. I didn't exist in 1953, so I wasn't around to remember when Stalin's Gulag system peaked out at 1500-2000 incarcerations per 100,000 people (and maybe another thousand or so if you include all the various forms of forced labor in the USSR), so I suppose by that standard, we still have some catching up to do.

The textbooks that I remember would have been written in the 70s, where the US incarceration rate was around 150-200 per 100,000. By the end of the Cold War, say, 1989, our rate of 426/100,000 rate was #1, besting South Africa's 333/100,000 and the USSR's 268/100,000. (If you want a chuckle, compare our present-day incarceration rate - measured our entire society - with South Africa's incarceration rates as a function of race during the last days of apartheid.)
 
2014-05-25 09:01:11 PM  
You know, every once in a while, I try to get a little concerned about prisoners in America....and then it just goes away. F 'em. Don't care.
 
2014-05-25 09:01:58 PM  
Of course, we've never had mass incarceration in modern times. It's been more massively paralellel prosecuted. FEMA camps are for when the mass incarceration of left handed people comes to fore.
 
2014-05-25 09:01:59 PM  
Yea sure..... Lets just end incarceration all together and let all these prisoners just mingle back into society...... What could possibly go wrong? If they want a viable solution to this incarceration problem, perhaps more executions are in order. Start executing life sentancers without parole, then just move on to all the ones who committed violent crimes, and then look at the nonviolent criminals on a case by case basis. This does 2 important things: lowers prison count and keeps the more violent ones from ever having a chance at coming back and repeating whatever they did.
 
2014-05-25 09:04:19 PM  
Personally I think the thing that may have changed things the most IS the explosion of: information.  Guess what came onto the scene in 1995 in a huge way and has ONLY gotten bigger since, The Internet.  Intelligence, wisdom, and knowledge decrease stupid acts and also allow those who thought they needed to resort to crime to instead now get it in a productive manner.

Further, the article was mostly concerned with NON-VIOLENT incarcerations and their rise--so Mrbogey, I'm not sure what rape and gunmen have to do with that point, AT ALL...  The inverse relationship is a perfectly good topic and I would agree with you, but not on the point when it comes to non-violent offenders: those that steal a bag of socks, or smoke some MJ.

Lastly, the spread of information explains the drop in crime everywhere and not just the U.S....  It is hard to make a case for almost anything else.

I simply believe that we are, slowly, learning together as a species--about common sense, wisdom , and perhaps...empathy.  Once the spread of information saturates the social structure (basically a huge mass of the populace has access to the Internet or some form of information tool...at their fingertips) then I'd imagine we'll see a plateau develop, and to further decrease crime rates after this we will have to focus on those that like to LIVE in their ignorance and finally deal with the issue no one deals with: mental illness...
 
2014-05-25 09:04:25 PM  
Drugs can ruin your life.  So if we catch you with them, we're going to ruin your life.
 
2014-05-25 09:05:07 PM  

Dirty J1: Yea sure..... Lets just end incarceration all together and let all these prisoners just mingle back into society...... What could possibly go wrong?


Well given that a ton of people currently incarcerated are just there for multiple instances of minor drug possession...probably nothing would go wrong. For the drug users that go out and drive or rob a liquor store, sure lock them up. But for the ones that have done absolutely nothing harmful to anyone and are only there for possessing a plant or some chemicals, it's likely that releasing them would cause no problems.

\Cop
 
2014-05-25 09:05:15 PM  

jaytkay: Mrbogey: America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

The violent crime rate has plummeted in the US. It's half of what it was in the late 80s/early 90s.


Thanks to our putting the criminals away for longer sentences.

The high incarceration rate isn't a bug, it's a feature of our safer society.
 
2014-05-25 09:07:32 PM  
Whoa... Bad timing.
 
2014-05-25 09:07:46 PM  

Dirty J1: Yea sure..... Lets just end incarceration all together and let all these prisoners just mingle back into society


Wow, you just destroyed that argument made by nobody outside your own head. You're a master debater.
 
2014-05-25 09:09:12 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: jaytkay: Mrbogey: America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

The violent crime rate has plummeted in the US. It's half of what it was in the late 80s/early 90s.

Thanks to our putting the criminals away for longer sentences.


Most prisoners are in for non-violent offenses.
 
2014-05-25 09:10:06 PM  

limboslam: You know, every once in a while, I try to get a little concerned about prisoners in America....and then it just goes away. F 'em. Don't care.


I'm with you there, but unfortunately the mass majority of our fellow Americans have become pussified beyond repair and over sympathize with criminals. That's why we keep them alive, pamper them, and spend ungodly amounts of taxpayer money on them. Did you know it takes around 40 to 60,000 a year to keep a prisoner incarcerated, not including their educational benefits? Most people don't make that in a year working their Asses off.
 
2014-05-25 09:12:50 PM  

Dirty J1: I'm with you there, but unfortunately the mass majority of our fellow Americans have become pussified beyond repair and over sympathize with criminals.


Lemme guess. You're a libertarian.
 
2014-05-25 09:12:54 PM  
As a conservative, finally something I can agree with the NYT on. I'd also say, records should be expunged under some reasonable circumstances. Busted for pot in Colorado in 1990? That's over 20 years and it's legal there now. Expunge. I'd also point out, the prison-industrial-complex (or whatever you want to call it) pays off makes contributions heavily to both parties to keep their scam alive, so let's stop with the partisan wedge-issue warfare here (B-B-B-BUT NOVEMBER), and make this a true human rights issue.
 
2014-05-25 09:12:55 PM  
Close our criminal schools prisons.
 
2014-05-25 09:13:45 PM  

jaytkay: Most prisoners are in for non-violent offenses.


Get that cite out. Show us.
 
2014-05-25 09:15:38 PM  
I don't know if the Editorial Board was in part inspired by Ta-Nehisi Coates' "The Case for Reparations", http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/05/the-case-for-repa r ations/361631/ , or that more people are starting to think this way.

What the editorial didn't mention is that the US is currently setup to deliberately create a criminal, disenfranchised, and disadvantaged underclass.
 
2014-05-25 09:16:58 PM  

TheHighlandHowler: Everyone is on this bandwagon until a friend/famly-member gets robbed or worse. Then they want to throw away the key.


End the drug war that's driving the property crime in the first place, then we won't have nearly as many that need locking up.  I don't like the wrist-slaps that are common in Europe for property crime, though.  On the flip side I don't like 3 strikes--the degree of crime matters.  How about we add say the greater of (2 years, the current sentence) to the sentence for every prior similar conviction.

Mrbogey: America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.


Quit listening to Faux Noise.  The crime rate is going *DOWN* and has been for some time.
 
2014-05-25 09:17:24 PM  
I don't mind ending mass incarceration, but spin and charge need to be dumped in a black hole somewhere.
 
2014-05-25 09:17:25 PM  
I read that as mass incineration. I guess that would be a solution to mass incarceration though.
 
2014-05-25 09:19:09 PM  

taurusowner: Dirty J1: Yea sure..... Lets just end incarceration all together and let all these prisoners just mingle back into society...... What could possibly go wrong?

Well given that a ton of people currently incarcerated are just there for multiple instances of minor drug possession...probably nothing would go wrong. For the drug users that go out and drive or rob a liquor store, sure lock them up. But for the ones that have done absolutely nothing harmful to anyone and are only there for possessing a plant or some chemicals, it's likely that releasing them would cause no problems.

\Cop


Multiple instances of minor drug possession..... So they did it again.... And again...... And again, knowing full well they shouldn't do it. How many chances do we award people until we have to lock them up to keep them from doing it? 10, 20, 30 chances perhaps? 100 chances? 1,000? If you had maybe said "first time" drug possession then I would understand..... But the key word in your argument was "multiple."
 
2014-05-25 09:20:29 PM  
Legalize pot. Release everyone who's charged only with possession or sale of pot, regardless of amount (assuming they didn't kill anyone, etc).

Also, as someone already said, abolish for profit prisons.
 
2014-05-25 09:20:48 PM  

fusillade762: Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.

Bullshiat.

[content.gallup.com image 556x303]


So you're saying locking up people works?

//Just trolling here.
 
2014-05-25 09:21:01 PM  
"And even though the political climate has shifted in recent years, many politicians continue to fear appearing to be "soft on crime," even when there is no evidence that imprisoning more people has reduced crime by more than a small amount. "

Those "many politicians" should be the ones rotting in prison, for their selfish abuse of power they  obtain by pandering to those voters with a lack of critical thinking.

We give these greedy, selfish mostly wealthy white narrow-minded males far too much respect for ruining our society solely to enrich themselves and their equally disgusting peers,
 
2014-05-25 09:21:07 PM  

Snarfangel: I don't mind ending mass incarceration, but spin and charge need to be dumped in a black hole somewhere.


I did my due diligence on google, what does "spin and charge" mean? Overcharging into a plea?
 
2014-05-25 09:22:00 PM  

jaytkay: Dirty J1: I'm with you there, but unfortunately the mass majority of our fellow Americans have become pussified beyond repair and over sympathize with criminals.

Lemme guess. You're a libertarian.


Nope, just a realist.
 
2014-05-25 09:23:21 PM  
About 2% of the population are unfit for civil society.  The safest way to "end mass incarceration" is to simply execute them.

/Texan
 
2014-05-25 09:23:27 PM  
Mrbogey

Get that cite out. Show us.

Quick and dirty Google result, up for debate:

On Dec. 31, 2012, there were 196,574 sentenced prisoners under federal jurisdiction. Of these, 99,426 were serving time for drug offenses, 11,688 for violent offenses, 11,568 for property offenses, and 72,519 for "public order" offenses (of which 23,700 were sentenced for immigration offenses, 30,046 for weapons offenses, and 17,633 for "other").

On Dec. 31, 2011, there were 1,341,797 sentenced prisoners under state jurisdiction. Of these, 222,738 were serving time for drug offenses, of whom 55,013 were merely convicted for possession. There were also 717,861 serving time for violent offenses, 249,574 for property offenses, 142,230 for "public order" offenses (which include weapons, drunk driving, court offenses, commercialized vice, morals and decency offenses, liquor law violations, and other public-order offenses), and 9,392 for "other/unspecified".
 
2014-05-25 09:25:21 PM  

TheWhoppah: About 2% of the population are unfit for civil society.  The safest way to "end mass incarceration" is to simply execute them.

/Texan


Couldn't agree more. But unfortunately there are too many people who sympathize with criminals these days, so executing them would make these people sad and hurt their feelings..... And that's what America is all about these days is not hurting anyone's feelings apparently.
 
2014-05-25 09:25:22 PM  

Mrbogey: jaytkay: Most prisoners are in for non-violent offenses.

Get that cite out. Show us.


I spy with my little eye someone who DNRTFA.

More than half of state prisoners are serving time for nonviolent crimes, and one of every nine, or about 159,000 people, are serving life sentences - nearly a third of them without the possibility of parole.

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=18613
 
2014-05-25 09:25:42 PM  
Dirty J1:

Multiple instances of minor drug possession..... So they did it again.... And again...... And again, knowing full well they shouldn't do it. How many chances do we award people until we have to lock them up to keep them from doing it? 10, 20, 30 chances perhaps? 100 chances? 1,000? If you had maybe said "first time" drug possession then I would understand..... But the key word in your argument was "multiple."

A million times b/c there is no good reason to lock someone up simply for using a drug. You and people who think like you are what's wrong w/ America.
 
2014-05-25 09:27:20 PM  

Honest Bender: Stop breaking the law!


That's not possible. We have so many laws that we all commit several felonies every single day. Literally every person in the country could receive a life sentence just for crimes committed within the last month.
 
2014-05-25 09:27:31 PM  

TheWhoppah: About 2% of the population are unfit for civil society.  The safest way to "end mass incarceration" is to simply execute them.

/Texan


Did you just say we should execute all Texans?
 
2014-05-25 09:27:41 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: Quick and dirty Google result, up for debate:


So about half for violent, a quarter for property, and a bit less than a quarter for drug related crimes.
 
2014-05-25 09:31:26 PM  

Mrbogey: I'm okay with releasing them if we can enforce an exile to another state. If we can toss every gunman, rapist, and burglar from New Orleans into Manhattan, I'd see no problem.

America's prison population is exploding because Americans are becoming more criminal. That's how societal collapse works folks.


Violent crime rates are lower than they've been in a long, long time.

We're locking up people for life for minor crimes thanks to "three strikes" laws.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-05-25 09:31:46 PM  

Mrbogey: jaytkay: Most prisoners are in for non-violent offenses.

Get that cite out. Show us.


An honest person would acknowledge that several people already did so up thread.
 
2014-05-25 09:32:17 PM  

TheWhoppah: About 2% of the population are unfit for civil society.  The safest way to "end mass incarceration" is to simply execute them.


Dude, is Austin really considered Texas anymore? Seems like the same as people calling Atlanta a part of Georgia.

//just learning TX - wifey grew up there - so many misconceptions punctured, so many new stereotypes to be had.
 
2014-05-25 09:32:36 PM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: the people who built the private prisons, duh


Less than 10% of prisons are private.  This is very much a big government problem.
 
2014-05-25 09:32:56 PM  
Stop for profit prisons.
 
2014-05-25 09:33:07 PM  

vodka: We can't back off now. We have the terrorists, child predators, and violent marijuana rapists on the run!!!


Not to mention those sociopaths that wear their pants too low.
 
2014-05-25 09:33:46 PM  

Dirty J1: TheWhoppah: About 2% of the population are unfit for civil society.  The safest way to "end mass incarceration" is to simply execute them.

/Texan

Couldn't agree more. But unfortunately there are too many people who sympathize with criminals these days, so executing them would make these people sad and hurt their feelings..... And that's what America is all about these days is not hurting anyone's feelings apparently.


Uh, who chooses that 2% Cause it sure isn't going to be you. I'm sure the totally honest and transparent state and federal governments would NEVER abuse that kind of power.
 
2014-05-25 09:34:02 PM  

Honest Bender: Stop breaking the law!


Over in 1.  If you don't want to be young, black, and in jail, don't be a criminal.
 
2014-05-25 09:34:27 PM  
I believe a majority of states would pass a ballot measure that gave the police the right of summary execution of crime suspects.

If there's anything the American people want more than the next Big Mac, it's institutionally sanctioned violence on anyone they view as criminals.
 
2014-05-25 09:34:57 PM  

Dirty J1: taurusowner: Dirty J1: Yea sure..... Lets just end incarceration all together and let all these prisoners just mingle back into society...... What could possibly go wrong?

Well given that a ton of people currently incarcerated are just there for multiple instances of minor drug possession...probably nothing would go wrong. For the drug users that go out and drive or rob a liquor store, sure lock them up. But for the ones that have done absolutely nothing harmful to anyone and are only there for possessing a plant or some chemicals, it's likely that releasing them would cause no problems.

\Cop

Multiple instances of minor drug possession..... So they did it again.... And again...... And again, knowing full well they shouldn't do it. How many chances do we award people until we have to lock them up to keep them from doing it? 10, 20, 30 chances perhaps? 100 chances? 1,000? If you had maybe said "first time" drug possession then I would understand..... But the key word in your argument was "multiple."


They shouldn't be in prison for drug possession at ALL. Even IF we must have our idiotic drug prohibition, non-violent offenders should be sent to rehab, not prison. But that doesn't make the for-profit prison owners (and, in turn, their pet politicians) money!
 
2014-05-25 09:35:04 PM  

Dirty J1: ...there are too many people who sympathize with criminals these days, so executing them would make these people sad and hurt their feelings..... And that's what America is all about these days is not hurting anyone's feelings apparently.


So, when are you going to turn yourself in? Every day you violate, at the very least, the Clean Water Act, the Clean Air Act and commit honest services fraud. Probably several times every day.
 
2014-05-25 09:35:04 PM  

TheHighlandHowler: Everyone is on this bandwagon until a friend/famly-member gets robbed or worse.  Then they want to throw away the key.


No, plenty of people are just vindictive and spiteful all on their own.
 
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