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(Alaska Dispatch News)   In general it's considered bad form to remove a 25-foot-tall elaborate burial totem pole from an abandoned village in Alaska and use it as a decoration in the front of your Beverly Hills mansion   (adn.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Southeast Alaska, Beverly Hills, Tuxecan, abandoned villages, Hollywood, vincent price, Civilian Conservation Corps, Ketchikan  
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10173 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2014 at 9:47 AM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-25 08:25:58 AM  
i.imgur.com

Wanted for questioning.
 
2014-05-25 08:29:19 AM  
Oh, from the headline I thought this just happened within the last few months, not in the 30s.  Okay, what's the problem? Return the totem pole to the tribe.
 
2014-05-25 09:17:03 AM  
Meh, finders keepers. Don't abandon stuff if you don't want people taking it.
 
2014-05-25 09:54:51 AM  
But a 24 foot pole is still fair game, right?
 
2014-05-25 09:55:59 AM  
Interesting that if the pole hadn't been taken in the 1930's, it would probably have eroded to sawdust by now.
 
2014-05-25 09:56:11 AM  
Finders Keepers its the American way
 
2014-05-25 09:57:10 AM  
It was a long time ago. How would we know that the Tlingit didn't give the pole to Mr. Barrymore and now, as usual, they are asking for it back? How?
 
2014-05-25 09:57:31 AM  
Finally when the totem is returned, Drew Barrymore will be relieved of any memory of her marriage to Tom Green.
 
2014-05-25 09:58:00 AM  

serial_crusher: Meh, finders keepers. Don't abandon stuff if you don't want people taking it.


Shot in the dark here. Are you American?
 
2014-05-25 09:58:57 AM  
You may get hit in the head by a surfboard.

/Nothing
 
2014-05-25 10:00:35 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: But a 24 foot pole is still fair game, right?


Only for your mom.
 
2014-05-25 10:03:37 AM  
Unfortunately this kind of shiat is still happening today, and not only with the elite. For some reason it's a crime to knock down a monument put up by whites but totally ok to take one placed by first peoples.
 
2014-05-25 10:03:46 AM  

serial_crusher: Meh, finders keepers. Don't abandon stuff if you don't want people taking it.


Gravestones usually aren't considered "abandoned stuff".

Still, I'd chalk this one up as "preservation" (albeit unintentional) rather than just "theft".  Odds are the pole would've deteriorated away or been otherwise destroyed if Barrymore hadn't made off with it.
 
2014-05-25 10:09:11 AM  
It's rightfully Barrymores. He called "Dibs".
 
2014-05-25 10:10:58 AM  

Mouser: serial_crusher: Meh, finders keepers. Don't abandon stuff if you don't want people taking it.

Gravestones usually aren't considered "abandoned stuff".

Still, I'd chalk this one up as "preservation" (albeit unintentional) rather than just "theft".  Odds are the pole would've deteriorated away or been otherwise destroyed if Barrymore hadn't made off with it.


Then you take a picture of it or hire somebody to carve a replica. That is what the tribesman did as it seems that they expected the poles to eventually rot away.
 
2014-05-25 10:12:11 AM  
Just give it back.  If anyone has gotten a raw deal, its the Native Americans.
 
2014-05-25 10:13:59 AM  
Bucket list item #527: Carve a totem pole.
 
2014-05-25 10:15:23 AM  

SBinRR: Interesting that if the pole hadn't been taken in the 1930's, it would probably have eroded to sawdust by now.


That was my thought based on this quote from the article:

"The original poles no longer stand at Tuxecan. But replicas were made and erected in Klawock starting in the late 1930s, thanks to funding from the Civilian Conservation Corps, the federal work relief program during the Great Depression."

And, it also notes that the copies have also deteriorated:

"Those copied totem poles also deteriorated and are being replaced, said Rowan, 50."

As bad as the theft is, there is little doubt that it the only reason it still exists today.  Of course, it should still be returned to the tribe who owns it.
 
2014-05-25 10:15:34 AM  
Just once I'd like to see a group of Native Americans go into a modern in use graveyard and start digging up the corpses for "archeological purposes" say Arlington National or something.
 
2014-05-25 10:15:40 AM  
 CarveSteal a totem pole.

FTFM
 
2014-05-25 10:21:23 AM  

JeffreyScott: SBinRR: Interesting that if the pole hadn't been taken in the 1930's, it would probably have eroded to sawdust by now.

That was my thought based on this quote from the article:

"The original poles no longer stand at Tuxecan. But replicas were made and erected in Klawock starting in the late 1930s, thanks to funding from the Civilian Conservation Corps, the federal work relief program during the Great Depression."

And, it also notes that the copies have also deteriorated:

"Those copied totem poles also deteriorated and are being replaced, said Rowan, 50."

As bad as the theft is, there is little doubt that it the only reason it still exists today.  Of course, it should still be returned to the tribe who owns it.


And the tribes seem to be perfectly fine with, and expected them to deteriorate. As if it was their purpose.
 
2014-05-25 10:21:40 AM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: It was a long time ago. How would we know that the Tlingit didn't give the pole to Mr. Barrymore and now, as usual, they are asking for it back? How?


Are you saying they are a bunch of Indian givers?
 
2014-05-25 10:24:41 AM  
Repeat from Ye Olde Farke Newes Bulletin and Cattle Report circa 1936.
 
2014-05-25 10:25:30 AM  

mrlewish: Just once I'd like to see a group of Native Americans go into a modern in use graveyard and start digging up the corpses for "archeological purposes" say Arlington National or something.


Actually, scientist dig up white people grave yards all the time for research.  The general rule of thumb, once the gravestones have been buried under a bunch of scrub brush for a generation or two, it's fair game.
 
2014-05-25 10:32:32 AM  

mrlewish: Just once I'd like to see a group of Native Americans go into a modern in use graveyard and start digging up the corpses for "archeological purposes" say Arlington National or something.


The difference here: the site had long since been abandoned (read the farking article).

If native Americans dug up or made off with gravestones from a long abandoned cemetery, I doubt anyone would care.
 
2014-05-25 10:34:56 AM  
Interesting fact:
Totem poles used to be the size of a cane or walking stick. Its only with the advent of western trade and the sharp steel tools of the white man that the west coast tribes started carve larger tree sized poles.
 
2014-05-25 10:36:33 AM  

eyemarten: mrlewish: Just once I'd like to see a group of Native Americans go into a modern in use graveyard and start digging up the corpses for "archeological purposes" say Arlington National or something.

The difference here: the site had long since been abandoned (read the farking article).

If native Americans dug up or made off with gravestones from a long abandoned cemetery, I doubt anyone would care.


The town was abandoned because they consolidated towns. It was obvious that they still observed the burial site since they have been making replicas of the fallen totem poles.
 
2014-05-25 10:46:25 AM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: mrlewish: Just once I'd like to see a group of Native Americans go into a modern in use graveyard and start digging up the corpses for "archeological purposes" say Arlington National or something.

Actually, scientist dig up white people grave yards all the time for research.  The general rule of thumb, once the gravestones have been buried under a bunch of scrub brush for a generation or two, it's fair game.


That's why everyone who knows me knows I'm to be torched and sprinkled. Though to be fair, this is because the wife vetoed letting me rot away on a body farm like in Bones or CSI.

Don't really care what happens to my body when I'm done using it. But don't be stupid and stick it in Tupperware, and then let it take up valuable real estate to boot.
 
2014-05-25 10:57:43 AM  
Neg-a-Tory good buddy.

The replica making began in the late 1930's, well after Barrymore had taken the pole from the abandoned (for whatever reason) site in 1931.

To be totally honest, the Civilian Conservation Corps that began the restoration of the abandoned site smacks of depression era job creation more than a people tending to their active burial ground.
 
2014-05-25 10:59:03 AM  

ongbok: eyemarten: mrlewish: Just once I'd like to see a group of Native Americans go into a modern in use graveyard and start digging up the corpses for "archeological purposes" say Arlington National or something.

The difference here: the site had long since been abandoned (read the farking article).

If native Americans dug up or made off with gravestones from a long abandoned cemetery, I doubt anyone would care.

The town was abandoned because they consolidated towns. It was obvious that they still observed the burial site since they have been making replicas of the fallen totem poles.


Sorry, my previous comment should have referenced this post
 
2014-05-25 10:59:20 AM  
i1207.photobucket.com
 
2014-05-25 11:00:36 AM  

ongbok: eyemarten: mrlewish: Just once I'd like to see a group of Native Americans go into a modern in use graveyard and start digging up the corpses for "archeological purposes" say Arlington National or something.

The difference here: the site had long since been abandoned (read the farking article).

If native Americans dug up or made off with gravestones from a long abandoned cemetery, I doubt anyone would care.

The town was abandoned because they consolidated towns. It was obvious that they still observed the burial site since they have been making replicas of the fallen totem poles.


The towns were consolidated because the christian missionaries needed to centralize control of the local tribes to fill their "schools" that were entirely about eliminating the local languages and culture. In other words, "educating" them so they would become "decent christian" people instead of the savages they were always portrayed as being in the popular media. It wasn't all that long ago the United States and Canada had concentration camps for the First Nations peoples. One of them is less than 50 miles from here, and is reputed to have the ashes of a quarter million people buried on the site.
 
2014-05-25 11:01:05 AM  

serial_crusher: Meh, finders keepers. Don't abandon stuff if you don't want people taking it.


Damn straight just for the fact that garbage pickin is a time honored tradition.
 
2014-05-25 11:02:05 AM  
CSB: The Kwanusila, the Thunderbird, totem pole in Chicago was stolen obtained from the site of a Northwest Tribe the  Kwakwaka'wakw.

img.fark.net

Higher res:  http://static.newworldencyclopedia.org/0/07/Gerald_Farinas_Addison_To t em_Pole.jpg

It's in Waveland Park on the lakefront at the Addison Street on Lake Shore Drive,
When I was a kid, I watched as an artist used a chain saw to cut off the faces so it could be restored.


IIRC, what's there now is a reproduction.  It never had those bright colors before the reproduction.

Yep.   It was donated by James Kraft.  (Twice.)
The original was sent to the British Columbia museum in 1986, and Kraft commissioned the creation of the authentic reproduction.
 
2014-05-25 11:13:25 AM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: mrlewish: Just once I'd like to see a group of Native Americans go into a modern in use graveyard and start digging up the corpses for "archeological purposes" say Arlington National or something.

Actually, scientist dig up white people grave yards all the time for research.  The general rule of thumb, once the gravestones have been buried under a bunch of scrub brush for a generation or two, it's fair game.


Arlington started as a civil war cemetery. Graves from that period are considered old enough for research.
 
2014-05-25 11:27:25 AM  

yakmans_dad: serial_crusher: Meh, finders keepers. Don't abandon stuff if you don't want people taking it.

Shot in the dark here. Are you American?


considering their history of treating aboriginals he is either American or Canadian
 
2014-05-25 11:30:36 AM  
I was expecting something involving modern douch bags. Then we'd have a meth PSA type ad lined up. "You wouldn't steal and display a native Alaskan grave totem, but as a douche you would."
 
m00
2014-05-25 11:38:08 AM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: It was a long time ago. How would we know that the Tlingit didn't give the pole to Mr. Barrymore and now, as usual, they are asking for it back? How?


I guess they are Indian Givers.
 
2014-05-25 11:38:12 AM  

netringer: CSB: The Kwanusila, the Thunderbird, totem pole in Chicago was stolen obtained from the site of a Northwest Tribe the  Kwakwaka'wakw.

[img.fark.net image 450x600]

Higher res:  http://static.newworldencyclopedia.org/0/07/Gerald_Farinas_Addison_To t em_Pole.jpg

It's in Waveland Park on the lakefront at the Addison Street on Lake Shore Drive,
When I was a kid, I watched as an artist used a chain saw to cut off the faces so it could be restored.


IIRC, what's there now is a reproduction.  It never had those bright colors before the reproduction.

Yep.   It was donated by James Kraft.  (Twice.)
The original was sent to the British Columbia museum in 1986, and Kraft commissioned the creation of the authentic reproduction.


Chicago must be the last resting place of humongous totem poles, particularly at the Field Museum:

Inside
cyncity.typepad.com

and outside

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-05-25 11:41:11 AM  

m00: The Pope of Manwich Village: It was a long time ago. How would we know that the Tlingit didn't give the pole to Mr. Barrymore and now, as usual, they are asking for it back? How?

I guess they are Indian Givers.


Thank you, Captain Obvious

img2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-05-25 11:41:55 AM  

Radak: [i.imgur.com image 718x303]

Wanted for questioning.


"Is it built on ancient indian burial ground?"
"The entire country is built on ancient indian burial ground!"

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Indian-artifact-treasure-trove -p aved-over-for-5422603.php

johnny_vegas: yakmans_dad: serial_crusher: Meh, finders keepers. Don't abandon stuff if you don't want people taking it.

Shot in the dark here. Are you American?

considering their history of treating aboriginals he is either American or Canadianwhite


FTFY
 
2014-05-25 11:50:15 AM  
The damn thing is cursed? Why would you want it back?
 
2014-05-25 11:52:46 AM  

mrlewish: Just once I'd like to see a group of Native Americans go into a modern in use graveyard and start digging up the corpses for "archeological purposes" say Arlington National or something.


If they were scientists with a dig permit, sure.

Oh wait...unless you were trying to drum up racial tension about something which has absolutely nothing to do with race.  Gosh, hate-filled ignorant people never do that, eh?
 
2014-05-25 11:57:17 AM  

ongbok: The town was abandoned because they consolidated towns. It was obvious that they still observed the burial site since they have been making replicas of the fallen totem poles.


True, but physical abandonment is also the basis for adverse possession (squatter's rights) laws.  Technically it's legal in the U.S. to just take abandoned property after a few years.  Not saying it's right (it isn't), just pointing out that it is legal.
 
2014-05-25 11:59:07 AM  
Again, there's no shortage of rope ..
 
2014-05-25 12:31:08 PM  

serial_crusher: Meh, finders keepers. Don't abandon stuff if you don't want people taking it.


This. If they cared so much about the totem pole, maybe they should have moved it with them when they abandoned the village. Don't cry about it now.
 
2014-05-25 12:44:04 PM  

SBinRR: Interesting that if the pole hadn't been taken in the 1930's, it would probably have eroded to sawdust by now.


So it's okay if I steal your car if I'll take better care of it than you do?
 
2014-05-25 12:48:04 PM  

Prey4reign: m00: The Pope of Manwich Village: It was a long time ago. How would we know that the Tlingit didn't give the pole to Mr. Barrymore and now, as usual, they are asking for it back? How?

I guess they are Indian Givers.

Thank you, Captain Obvious


Ironically, in 1872, Captain Obvious (US Cav.) fought Lakota Chief Blatant at the Battle of Subtlety.
 
2014-05-25 01:13:42 PM  

johnny_vegas: yakmans_dad: serial_crusher: Meh, finders keepers. Don't abandon stuff if you don't want people taking it.

Shot in the dark here. Are you American?

considering their history of treating aboriginals he is either American or Canadian


I wasn't even thinking about aboriginal people. I was thinking about the  Scout leader who destroyed an ancient geological site in Utah. We can't have nice things here, anywhere in public, because Americans seem to delight in destroying things.

/Sorry, but it's true.
//Do you have a flag?
 
2014-05-25 01:25:55 PM  

yakmans_dad: johnny_vegas: yakmans_dad: serial_crusher: Meh, finders keepers. Don't abandon stuff if you don't want people taking it.

Shot in the dark here. Are you American?

considering their history of treating aboriginals he is either American or Canadian

I wasn't even thinking about aboriginal people. I was thinking about the  Scout leader who destroyed an ancient geological site in Utah. We can't have nice things here, anywhere in public, because Americans seem to delight in destroying things.

/Sorry, but it's true.
//Do you have a flag?


Bad example. Yeah the scout leader pulled a dick move but it wasn't like he destroyed a 1,000 year old statue of Buddha (coughTalibancough). He pushed over a rock. A rock.
 
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