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(New York Daily News)   In the US, white collar criminals who get caught scamming billions from innocents spend a few years in elegant Federal prisons that are like country clubs. In Iran, those types of criminals get executed   (nydailynews.com) divider line 57
    More: Spiffy, Evin Prison, forged document, Iran, Tehran, scams, financial institutions  
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3882 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2014 at 11:48 AM (8 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-05-25 11:55:20 AM
14 votes:
Because in Iran they're stealing from the regime, In America (and Europe) they are the regime.
2014-05-25 11:14:35 AM
13 votes:

i369.photobucket.com

2014-05-25 11:49:44 AM
5 votes:
am I supposed to have a problem with this?
2014-05-25 12:24:47 PM
4 votes:

hardinparamedic: So submitter wants to repeal the bill of rights


How is punishing people relative to the severity of their crimes against the bill of rights? Execution need be not cruel, as you well know with all your medical training, and it's certainly not unusual in the history of the US or abroad. All the other amendments in the bill just assure they'll get a fair trial and specify whether federal or state government will hear the case.

It actually makes some good sense for massive, society wide thefts to get the death penalty. A human has four score and ten years, give or take. So we'll be generous and say one human life is worth 75 years' agency. A crime is a violation of one person's agency to their own detriment. Murder, the ultimate personal crime, removes all future years of agency.

Everyone can agree a baby killer should be executed. Thus 75 years' agency or more is worth an automatic death sentence in most people's minds. So, all we have to do now is tally up how much agency a dollar is worth.

Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour at the lowest. Thus one dollar is worth 8.275 minutes of agency, minimum. 75 years is 3.94462e7 minutes. Thus, the minimum value of a human life is $4,766,912.39. So anyone who steals more than that should probably be eligible for the death penalty.
2014-05-25 11:59:39 AM
4 votes:

Swampmaster: Well, liberals/leftist are against the death penalty; and the ACLU frequently gets Capital punishment cases changed/overturned/thrown-out: so there is that. But NOW loves Sharia law; NAACP loves when a brother becomes Muslim; and of course, leftists love Mob rule and vigilanti justice. So yeah; Iran and the Mullahs are doing it right! +1 for global death penalties and hanging trees for everyone! Sheesh


Are you calling the Bundy jackholes leftists?  They might have a problem with that.
2014-05-25 11:57:15 AM
4 votes:
Well, liberals/leftist are against the death penalty; and the ACLU frequently gets Capital punishment cases changed/overturned/thrown-out: so there is that. But NOW loves Sharia law; NAACP loves when a brother becomes Muslim; and of course, leftists love Mob rule and vigilanti justice. So yeah; Iran and the Mullahs are doing it right! +1 for global death penalties and hanging trees for everyone! Sheesh
2014-05-25 01:40:08 PM
3 votes:

Abox: I bet many of those cheering the death of white collar criminals would jump at the chance to screw people over for a big payoff.


Psychological projection much?
2014-05-25 01:37:51 PM
3 votes:
I bet many of those cheering the death of white collar criminals would jump at the chance to screw people over for a big payoff.
2014-05-25 01:35:16 PM
3 votes:
Appropriate punishment of our white collar criminals: take all their ill-gotten gains, and put them in forced labor camps where they pick fruit or serve hamburgers at theme parks for the rest of their lives.  Force them to live like the peasants they exploited for the rest of their lives, with no possibility of escape.

Do that to enough white collar criminals, and the ones in charge of this country might just make things a little better for the lower classes, just in case they join them one day.
2014-05-25 12:50:24 PM
3 votes:

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.


Federal prison camps like the one Martha Stewart stayed in combined with work-release sentencing that allows rich people to leave the facility during the day are what give rise to the Club Fed idea.
2014-05-25 12:07:34 PM
3 votes:

zimbomba63: So capital punishment is now OK?  We can clean house of all the murderers?  Good, that will free up a lot of space.  I think rapists so go, too.


Nope. Capital punishment, as in Iran, is more than the slap on the wrist that many white-collar criminals receive in the US. The argument is not that we should execute more people, but that the punishment of certain groups of criminals is not severe enough.
2014-05-25 11:58:09 AM
3 votes:

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.


Still, it might be nice if our crooked financiers would even be in a position to learn this.
2014-05-25 11:55:16 AM
3 votes:
So capital punishment is now OK?  We can clean house of all the murderers?  Good, that will free up a lot of space.  I think rapists so go, too.
2014-05-25 11:54:21 AM
3 votes:
Good. There's a deterrent lesson in there.
2014-05-25 03:07:28 PM
2 votes:
www.againstcronycapitalism.org
2014-05-25 01:43:12 PM
2 votes:

DubyaHater: I've never seen Fark so happy about carrying out the death penalty.

Child-raping murderer?  Think of his civil rights!  This is an outrage

Man stealing money?  You know, we should be more like Iran.

Fark Iran and their religious bullshiat.  There's a reason Orange County is filled with Persians.
/including beautiful Persian women


No, I'm not ok with it.

Murder by the state is NEVER ok, no matter what state is doing it, or why.

I'm actually against prison for any non-violent offender.  I don't think it's even remotely productive, and it costs us far too much money AND is a net detriment to society.

For an economic crime, I would suggest prison needs to come off the table as an option.  But I've got a great idea for a replacement:

I would suggest that we set up a system for fining people based on their assets and income, rather than a fixed fine system like we have now.  And I would suggest that we set up that system in such a manner that someone who would have been sentenced to, say, 20 years in prison will have all assets confiscated and put toward restitution, and for the next 20 years will be sentenced to live on no more than 30 hours a week of minimum wage, with no eligibility for any assistance programs.  Any income above that level is forfeited, with full restitution taking priority and if anything is left over it goes to the treasury.  And I would set this up so that it applies to anyone with assets greater than $1million and a sentence level that would be greater than 5 years.

Prison should be reserved as an option only for violent criminals, and only for so long as they continue to pose a danger to society.  I would end both murder by the state and life sentences.
2014-05-25 01:28:30 PM
2 votes:

Nemo's Brother: If you guys really wanted the rich crooks to be punished, you would have demanded more out of Obama or not re-elected him.  He brought in the likes of Tim Geithner, and Eric Holder. Did you really believe the guilty would get their just dues?  

Idiots or kool-aid drinkers all of you are.


And elected Romney, who would have made sure that no bankers were guilty of anything by removing all the regulations they did violate?  Is that your solution to not re-electing Obama?

Until the Republican complete their self-destruction and we get a party worth voting for over the center-right Democrats, we have no choice but to vote Democratic, because the alternative is voting for the right-wing nutjobs.
2014-05-25 01:19:00 PM
2 votes:

Swampmaster: Well, liberals/leftist are against the death penalty; and the ACLU frequently gets Capital punishment cases changed/overturned/thrown-out: so there is that. But NOW loves Sharia law; NAACP loves when a brother becomes Muslim; and of course, leftists love Mob rule and vigilanti justice. So yeah; Iran and the Mullahs are doing it right! +1 for global death penalties and hanging trees for everyone! Sheesh



Yes, that's why all those leftist, tree-hugging, Obama lovers raced to defend Cliven Bundy out in Nevada.  It was also the left wing nutjobs that defended guys that take the law into their own hands like Zimmerman over in Florida.
2014-05-25 01:06:24 PM
2 votes:
I've never seen Fark so happy about carrying out the death penalty.

Child-raping murderer?  Think of his civil rights!  This is an outrage

Man stealing money?  You know, we should be more like Iran.

Fark Iran and their religious bullshiat.  There's a reason Orange County is filled with Persians.
/including beautiful Persian women
2014-05-25 01:03:28 PM
2 votes:

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.


Country club? No, but still not terrible. I used to have classes with federal prisoners. Know what they wore to class? Street clothes. Know how they got to class? They walked a couple of blocks from the holding facility to the building we had classes in. They weren't even accompanied by guards. They were on the honor system and there was a time when they were expected to be back at the holding facility. Of course the fear of being sent to a real prison with real walls and real nasty violent criminals was enough to keep most of them from even dreaming of walking away but overall it didn't appear to be a terrible situation.
2014-05-25 12:47:43 PM
2 votes:
Of course, Iran executes jaywalkers also. And people who speak loudly in theaters. And those guys over by the pool table, they're up to something, I just know it.
2014-05-25 12:39:44 PM
2 votes:
I don't say this too often, but Iran is awesome in that respect.
2014-05-25 12:25:27 PM
2 votes:

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.


Minimum security federal prisons aren't literally like country clubs, but they also aren't gang-infested rape camps like state prisons. They are like cheap college dorms.

They don't even have walls, prisoners can walk away if they want. Which is sensible. It would be a waste of money to maintain armed lockdown for prisoners who are non-violent and compliant.
2014-05-25 12:21:50 PM
2 votes:

toadist: Capital punishment advocates.    Cool, now we can clear out the prisons.

And even for as little as theft of some money.     Kudos to Farkers who are into the death penalty.


Noting that Iran punishes people far more severely than we do and feeling that we should be stricter is not the same as advocating the death penalty here.
2014-05-25 12:19:20 PM
2 votes:

AndreMA: zimbomba63: So capital punishment is now OK?  We can clean house of all the murderers?  Good, that will free up a lot of space.  I think rapists so go, too.

Nope. Capital punishment, as in Iran, is more than the slap on the wrist that many white-collar criminals receive in the US. The argument is not that we should execute more people, but that the punishment of certain groups of criminals is not severe enough.


I think we do need to execute OR make life in prison charges for these guys. The deterrents are just not there anymore and these people think "hmm...live the life for a few years or more and pay a minor penalty or some minor jail time....sign me up".

Risk/Reward is just not there.
2014-05-25 11:55:56 AM
2 votes:
Who won't they execute?
2014-05-25 11:51:26 AM
2 votes:
And China also.  Everybody forgets about China.  It used to be Poland but nowadays, it's China.
2014-05-26 08:47:22 AM
1 votes:

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.


Well maybe not in the US. Check out Bastoy in Norway though.
2014-05-25 06:47:06 PM
1 votes:
And a 19 year old guy in Round Rock, Texas is looking at a Life Term in jail for pot brownies.
2014-05-25 04:16:57 PM
1 votes:

Aigoo: DarkVader: for the next 20 years will be sentenced to live on no more than 30 hours a week of minimum wage, with no eligibility for any assistance programs.  Any income above that level is forfeited, with full restitution taking priority and if anything is left over it goes to the treasury.

Prison should be reserved as an option only for violent criminals, and only for so long as they continue to pose a danger to society.  I would end both murder by the state and life sentences.

Aww, such a nice sentiment...except it creates more crime than it cures.

Current Federal minimum wage = $7.25/hr

7.25x30 hours/week=217.5

217.5x4weeks/month=870

$870 is not a livable wage, not even for a criminal, considering rent in most places is equal to or just barely below that. Then you have food, power, water, gas, and phone. And you say these people, on your plan, would not be eligible for assistance.

I just want to point out that the death penalty would actually be more merciful than starving or freezing them to death--which is what would occur under the idea you envision.

The reality? Anyone forced to live that way would be forced to commit crime to survive. They would become violent criminals whether they wanted to or not, especially if they had a family to support.

Your plan is unrealistic at best, cruel and unusual (forbidden by the Constitution) at worst.

A better idea would be to refocus the prisons to what they have in Norway: a far more humane system that decreases recidivism dramatically.


So you admit minimum wage is criminally low, then?  I am absolutely in favor of a $15-$20 minimum wage automatically indexed to inflation in the US.  But that's not really the point here.

The point is that prison for non-violent criminals costs us money, and is completely unnecessary.  And of course that murder by the state is inherently cruel and unusual, inherently immoral, and should never happen anywhere in the world.

There are cheaper housing options than a single apartment.  They may not be in a desirable place, but you can rent an old mobile home for $250/month in some places.  And an $800/month apartment is only $200/month with 3 roommates (and there are plenty of potential roommates, given that I'm suggesting doing this for ALL white collar criminals).  The food isn't going to be great, but it'll certainly be better than prison food.  It's absolutely possible to keep warm on what's left.  It's not luxury, but it's survival, and it doesn't cost taxpayers anything at all.  So, let's run the numbers - $200 for rent (4 bedroom apartment, split 4 ways, can actually be had for less), $50 for phone, $250 for food (very doable, it's about what I spend on groceries every month, and I actually eat pretty well), $50 for utilities (that might be high, apartment utilities here are typically under $150/month for a 4 bedroom apartment), $20 for internet (again, probably a bit high, but that's nice fast service split 4 ways), $50 for transportation (that's the price of a monthly bus pass here).  So, that brings us to $620/month in expenses.  That still leaves $250/month out of your $870.  That'll cover some clothing purchases, an occasional fast food meal, and even an occasional doctor/dentist visit.

And I would in no way suggest that the family, if there is one, wouldn't be eligible for assistance, only that the white-collar criminal himself wouldn't.  I wouldn't allow the criminal to live with the family, but he could visit so long as he didn't sleep there.

I'll even make one exception to the no assistance - I'd allow medicaid in states that have expanded medicaid to cover people within 133% of poverty, since I'm in favor of national single-payer healthcare anyway.  In the other states, EMTALA is still in effect, if they don't expand medicaid soon they'll bankrupt themselves soon anyway if they don't expand medicaid.

I don't see it as cruel or unusual, it's less cruel than prison, it only requires 30 hours per week of work (though it doesn't prohibit more, it only restricts money kept), it in no way restricts the job opportunities available, only the amount of pay that can be kept, and if it were to be carried out as I suggest, for all nonviolent criminals, it would, by definition, not be unusual.

And I would argue that it won't create violent criminals either.  The white collar criminal isn't typically a violent person, and unlike in prison where a non-violent person can easily get an education in violent crime, there isn't the easy access to violent people to push someone in that direction.  There may be a few who would resort to violence, but for them, there is prison.

And for where prison is necessary, I would absolutely agree that Norway may be the country that gets it closes to right, and we should absolutely adopt that system.
2014-05-25 03:44:32 PM
1 votes:

AndreMA: The argument is not that we should execute more people, but that the punishment of certain groups of criminals is not severe enough.


My argument is that we don't execute enough financial criminals.  The only reason no one's even tried to assassinate these overlords is that it's the violence-averse political left complaining, and they don't own BB guns, much less sniper rifles.
2014-05-25 03:22:57 PM
1 votes:

Warlordtrooper: zimbomba63: JC22: AndreMA: zimbomba63: So capital punishment is now OK?  We can clean house of all the murderers?  Good, that will free up a lot of space.  I think rapists so go, too.

Nope. Capital punishment, as in Iran, is more than the slap on the wrist that many white-collar criminals receive in the US. The argument is not that we should execute more people, but that the punishment of certain groups of criminals is not severe enough.

I think we do need to execute OR make life in prison charges for these guys. The deterrents are just not there anymore and these people think "hmm...live the life for a few years or more and pay a minor penalty or some minor jail time....sign me up".

Risk/Reward is just not there.

OK, just as long we clear out all the scum, and that means the murderers and rapist, too.  Why would you want to do just the white collar criminals?

The odd thing is that the Left always says that the death penalty does not deter criminals, so we should end it. But, if they going to use it against a group they don't like, all of a sudden, shazam, it acceptable,  Very odd, indeed.

White collar criminals do far more damage to society than a rapist or murderer.  Their punishment SHOULD be more harsh.


Living in the Chicago area, I would say street gangs do more damage, thus, summary execution is required.
2014-05-25 03:08:17 PM
1 votes:

hitlersbrain: Ripping people off legally really isn't that hard. There are lot's of ways to screw the middle class and poor and make a lot of money doing it. The 'trouble' with most people is that they have empathy for their fellow humans, unlike the randian 'elites'.


Well, take your empathy and donate to the "I Still Believe Crystal Magnum Was Raped By The Duke Lacrosse Team" fund. After all, the poor dear was screwed over by rich white frat boys and then the American Justice System. Clearly she's the victim that the whole world needs to drop everything else and support.

/also, I hear Justice 4 Trayvon and Kony 2012 are still taking donations
//I'm sure they're totes legit, because they represent the oppressed
2014-05-25 02:55:54 PM
1 votes:
Iran also executes people with the gay so are you saying we should model our judicial system on Iran's?
2014-05-25 02:50:43 PM
1 votes:
Well murdering the economy should be a capital crime.
2014-05-25 02:47:15 PM
1 votes:

special20: dennysgod: Time to step up Texas, you ain't going to let some uppity Mooslim country one up ya are ya.

How many billionaires do you think there are in Texas? No, not the ones in Dallas that make 50k a year and act like one...


44 according to google, 3rd after CA and NY.
2014-05-25 02:42:33 PM
1 votes:

Need_MindBleach: Quick question: Why are the super-rich allowed to go to different prisons than the rest of the non-violent population in the Federal prison system?


The poor and middle class have terrible lobbyists.
2014-05-25 02:06:07 PM
1 votes:

Swampmaster: Well, liberals/leftist are against the death penalty; and the ACLU frequently gets Capital punishment cases changed/overturned/thrown-out: so there is that. But NOW loves Sharia law; NAACP loves when a brother becomes Muslim; and of course, leftists love Mob rule and vigilanti justice. So yeah; Iran and the Mullahs are doing it right! +1 for global death penalties and hanging trees for everyone! Sheesh


How dare you point out their hypocrisy. Don't you know it's not wrong if Fark Liberals support it?
2014-05-25 02:04:21 PM
1 votes:

EngineerAU: Abox: I bet many of those cheering the death of white collar criminals would jump at the chance to screw people over for a big payoff.

Psychological projection much?


Nah just perceptive.
2014-05-25 01:43:31 PM
1 votes:
We should be more like Iran.
2014-05-25 01:40:51 PM
1 votes:

kvinesknows: am I supposed to have a problem with this?


Like kvinesknows, not only do I not have a problem with this, but

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
2014-05-25 01:37:03 PM
1 votes:

doglover: hardinparamedic: So submitter wants to repeal the bill of rights

How is punishing people relative to the severity of their crimes against the bill of rights? Execution need be not cruel, as you well know with all your medical training, and it's certainly not unusual in the history of the US or abroad. All the other amendments in the bill just assure they'll get a fair trial and specify whether federal or state government will hear the case.

It actually makes some good sense for massive, society wide thefts to get the death penalty. A human has four score and ten years, give or take. So we'll be generous and say one human life is worth 75 years' agency. A crime is a violation of one person's agency to their own detriment. Murder, the ultimate personal crime, removes all future years of agency.

Everyone can agree a baby killer should be executed. Thus 75 years' agency or more is worth an automatic death sentence in most people's minds. So, all we have to do now is tally up how much agency a dollar is worth.

Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour at the lowest. Thus one dollar is worth 8.275 minutes of agency, minimum. 75 years is 3.94462e7 minutes. Thus, the minimum value of a human life is $4,766,912.39. So anyone who steals more than that should probably be eligible for the death penalty.


Math!
2014-05-25 01:34:37 PM
1 votes:

JC22: AndreMA: zimbomba63: So capital punishment is now OK?  We can clean house of all the murderers?  Good, that will free up a lot of space.  I think rapists so go, too.

Nope. Capital punishment, as in Iran, is more than the slap on the wrist that many white-collar criminals receive in the US. The argument is not that we should execute more people, but that the punishment of certain groups of criminals is not severe enough.

I think we do need to execute OR make life in prison charges for these guys. The deterrents are just not there anymore and these people think "hmm...live the life for a few years or more and pay a minor penalty or some minor jail time....sign me up".

Risk/Reward is just not there.


OK, just as long we clear out all the scum, and that means the murderers and rapist, too.  Why would you want to do just the white collar criminals?

The odd thing is that the Left always says that the death penalty does not deter criminals, so we should end it. But, if they going to use it against a group they don't like, all of a sudden, shazam, it acceptable,  Very odd, indeed.
2014-05-25 01:29:55 PM
1 votes:
Iran also does not have female motorists so that may be considered a plus.
2014-05-25 01:19:30 PM
1 votes:
China will execute them too.  I think we should execute them too based on the amount of money they swindled. Over 25 million, off with their heads.  Under 25 million, 25 years or so.
2014-05-25 01:12:44 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: So submitter wants to repeal the bill of rights and be more like a religious theocracy which murders it's own citizens?

Brilliant.


No he just wants bankers held to a higher standard. They destroy so much that they need to answer with their lives.
2014-05-25 01:04:17 PM
1 votes:
2014-05-25 12:36:15 PM
1 votes:
And exercising free speech will get you stoned to death.

Also, being a woman pretty much gets you stoned to death or boonga-boongaed

Not sure what point subtard was trying to make
2014-05-25 12:15:36 PM
1 votes:

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. .

That's what they want you to think .

2014-05-25 12:10:11 PM
1 votes:

Slaxl: Because in Iran they're stealing from the regime, In America (and Europe) they are the regime.


This. Thread over.
2014-05-25 12:09:23 PM
1 votes:
Capital punishment advocates.    Cool, now we can clear out the prisons.

And even for as little as theft of some money.     Kudos to Farkers who are into the death penalty.
2014-05-25 12:06:59 PM
1 votes:
Which Unites States are you talking about, subby? How many banksters have been taken to trial much less convicted?
2014-05-25 12:05:35 PM
1 votes:
So submitter wants to repeal the bill of rights and be more like a religious theocracy which murders it's own citizens?

Brilliant.
2014-05-25 11:59:33 AM
1 votes:

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.


Interesting, would you mind providing some proof? Not trying to argue, just curious.
2014-05-25 11:56:16 AM
1 votes:
There's no shortage of rope
2014-05-25 11:55:55 AM
1 votes:
There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.
2014-05-25 11:52:08 AM
1 votes:
Once you start killin' bootstrappy entrepreneurial job-creators, how do you stop?
 
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