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(New York Daily News)   In the US, white collar criminals who get caught scamming billions from innocents spend a few years in elegant Federal prisons that are like country clubs. In Iran, those types of criminals get executed   (nydailynews.com) divider line 113
    More: Spiffy, Evin Prison, forged document, Iran, Tehran, scams, financial institutions  
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3898 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2014 at 11:48 AM (13 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



113 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-05-25 11:14:35 AM

i369.photobucket.com

 
2014-05-25 11:49:44 AM
am I supposed to have a problem with this?
 
2014-05-25 11:51:26 AM
And China also.  Everybody forgets about China.  It used to be Poland but nowadays, it's China.
 
2014-05-25 11:52:08 AM
Once you start killin' bootstrappy entrepreneurial job-creators, how do you stop?
 
2014-05-25 11:53:16 AM
Wait, they don't go to federal PMITA prison?
 
2014-05-25 11:54:21 AM
Good. There's a deterrent lesson in there.
 
2014-05-25 11:55:16 AM
So capital punishment is now OK?  We can clean house of all the murderers?  Good, that will free up a lot of space.  I think rapists so go, too.
 
2014-05-25 11:55:20 AM
Because in Iran they're stealing from the regime, In America (and Europe) they are the regime.
 
2014-05-25 11:55:55 AM
There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.
 
2014-05-25 11:55:56 AM
Who won't they execute?
 
2014-05-25 11:56:16 AM
There's no shortage of rope
 
2014-05-25 11:56:55 AM
Well, that settles it then. We should all move to Iran. I hear it's nice over there.
 
2014-05-25 11:57:15 AM
Well, liberals/leftist are against the death penalty; and the ACLU frequently gets Capital punishment cases changed/overturned/thrown-out: so there is that. But NOW loves Sharia law; NAACP loves when a brother becomes Muslim; and of course, leftists love Mob rule and vigilanti justice. So yeah; Iran and the Mullahs are doing it right! +1 for global death penalties and hanging trees for everyone! Sheesh
 
2014-05-25 11:58:09 AM

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.


Still, it might be nice if our crooked financiers would even be in a position to learn this.
 
2014-05-25 11:59:33 AM

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.


Interesting, would you mind providing some proof? Not trying to argue, just curious.
 
2014-05-25 11:59:39 AM

Swampmaster: Well, liberals/leftist are against the death penalty; and the ACLU frequently gets Capital punishment cases changed/overturned/thrown-out: so there is that. But NOW loves Sharia law; NAACP loves when a brother becomes Muslim; and of course, leftists love Mob rule and vigilanti justice. So yeah; Iran and the Mullahs are doing it right! +1 for global death penalties and hanging trees for everyone! Sheesh


Are you calling the Bundy jackholes leftists?  They might have a problem with that.
 
2014-05-25 12:01:10 PM
Time to step up Texas, you ain't going to let some uppity Mooslim country one up ya are ya.
 
2014-05-25 12:04:16 PM

bluenovaman: Swampmaster: Well, liberals/leftist are against the death penalty; and the ACLU frequently gets Capital punishment cases changed/overturned/thrown-out: so there is that. But NOW loves Sharia law; NAACP loves when a brother becomes Muslim; and of course, leftists love Mob rule and vigilanti justice. So yeah; Iran and the Mullahs are doing it right! +1 for global death penalties and hanging trees for everyone! Sheesh

Are you calling the Bundy jackholes leftists?  They might have a problem with that.


Believing The Peoples grass should be free to use is pretty damn socialist. Just sayin'.
 
2014-05-25 12:04:17 PM
Actually, I think they walk here in the U.S., subs.

They may even get a bonus.
 
2014-05-25 12:05:35 PM
So submitter wants to repeal the bill of rights and be more like a religious theocracy which murders it's own citizens?

Brilliant.
 
2014-05-25 12:06:11 PM
Same as it ever was.
 
2014-05-25 12:06:59 PM
Which Unites States are you talking about, subby? How many banksters have been taken to trial much less convicted?
 
2014-05-25 12:07:34 PM

zimbomba63: So capital punishment is now OK?  We can clean house of all the murderers?  Good, that will free up a lot of space.  I think rapists so go, too.


Nope. Capital punishment, as in Iran, is more than the slap on the wrist that many white-collar criminals receive in the US. The argument is not that we should execute more people, but that the punishment of certain groups of criminals is not severe enough.
 
2014-05-25 12:07:46 PM

Shakespeare's Monkey: Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.

Interesting, would you mind providing some proof? Not trying to argue, just curious.


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6196954/ns/business-corporate_scandals/t/u lt imate-planner-set-lose-control-her-life/#.U4IULSh7QdU

It's not the proof you are looking for, but compare that to the supposed living conditions that were thrown around back when she was originally sentenced.
 
2014-05-25 12:08:42 PM

Shakespeare's Monkey: Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.

Interesting, would you mind providing some proof? Not trying to argue, just curious.


Been there, done that. True it was some 30 years ago. But I keep in contact, and the fed's sure as hell haven't improved things.
 
2014-05-25 12:09:23 PM
Capital punishment advocates.    Cool, now we can clear out the prisons.

And even for as little as theft of some money.     Kudos to Farkers who are into the death penalty.
 
2014-05-25 12:10:11 PM

Slaxl: Because in Iran they're stealing from the regime, In America (and Europe) they are the regime.


This. Thread over.
 
2014-05-25 12:13:24 PM

Saners: Shakespeare's Monkey: Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.

Interesting, would you mind providing some proof? Not trying to argue, just curious.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6196954/ns/business-corporate_scandals/t/u lt imate-planner-set-lose-control-her-life/#.U4IULSh7QdU

It's not the proof you are looking for, but compare that to the supposed living conditions that were thrown around back when she was originally sentenced.


paint all that crap green and it would look very much like the barracks I lived in while stationed in Panama - except this looks nicer.
 
2014-05-25 12:15:36 PM

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. .

That's what they want you to think .

 
2014-05-25 12:16:19 PM
Khosravi's lawyer, Gholam Ali Riahi, was quoted as saying that the death sentence was carried out without him being given any notice.

i doubt they have the appeals process we do so why bother the attorney.
 
2014-05-25 12:19:20 PM

AndreMA: zimbomba63: So capital punishment is now OK?  We can clean house of all the murderers?  Good, that will free up a lot of space.  I think rapists so go, too.

Nope. Capital punishment, as in Iran, is more than the slap on the wrist that many white-collar criminals receive in the US. The argument is not that we should execute more people, but that the punishment of certain groups of criminals is not severe enough.


I think we do need to execute OR make life in prison charges for these guys. The deterrents are just not there anymore and these people think "hmm...live the life for a few years or more and pay a minor penalty or some minor jail time....sign me up".

Risk/Reward is just not there.
 
2014-05-25 12:21:50 PM

toadist: Capital punishment advocates.    Cool, now we can clear out the prisons.

And even for as little as theft of some money.     Kudos to Farkers who are into the death penalty.


Noting that Iran punishes people far more severely than we do and feeling that we should be stricter is not the same as advocating the death penalty here.
 
2014-05-25 12:24:47 PM

hardinparamedic: So submitter wants to repeal the bill of rights


How is punishing people relative to the severity of their crimes against the bill of rights? Execution need be not cruel, as you well know with all your medical training, and it's certainly not unusual in the history of the US or abroad. All the other amendments in the bill just assure they'll get a fair trial and specify whether federal or state government will hear the case.

It actually makes some good sense for massive, society wide thefts to get the death penalty. A human has four score and ten years, give or take. So we'll be generous and say one human life is worth 75 years' agency. A crime is a violation of one person's agency to their own detriment. Murder, the ultimate personal crime, removes all future years of agency.

Everyone can agree a baby killer should be executed. Thus 75 years' agency or more is worth an automatic death sentence in most people's minds. So, all we have to do now is tally up how much agency a dollar is worth.

Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour at the lowest. Thus one dollar is worth 8.275 minutes of agency, minimum. 75 years is 3.94462e7 minutes. Thus, the minimum value of a human life is $4,766,912.39. So anyone who steals more than that should probably be eligible for the death penalty.
 
2014-05-25 12:25:20 PM

JC22: I think we do need to execute OR make life in prison charges for these guys. The deterrents are just not there anymore and these people think "hmm...live the life for a few years or more and pay a minor penalty or some minor jail time....sign me up".

Risk/Reward is just not there.


In principle I think some of them do deserve death, but I have no faith in the justice system to reach correct verdicts. In order to avoid irreversible errors by an inherently flawed system, I think the death penalty should be abolished.
 
2014-05-25 12:25:27 PM

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.


Minimum security federal prisons aren't literally like country clubs, but they also aren't gang-infested rape camps like state prisons. They are like cheap college dorms.

They don't even have walls, prisoners can walk away if they want. Which is sensible. It would be a waste of money to maintain armed lockdown for prisoners who are non-violent and compliant.
 
2014-05-25 12:36:15 PM
And exercising free speech will get you stoned to death.

Also, being a woman pretty much gets you stoned to death or boonga-boongaed

Not sure what point subtard was trying to make
 
2014-05-25 12:39:44 PM
I don't say this too often, but Iran is awesome in that respect.
 
2014-05-25 12:40:35 PM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: And exercising free speech will get you stoned to death.

Also, being a woman pretty much gets you stoned to death or boonga-boongaed

Not sure what point subtard was trying to make


Yeah I thought oppressive regime boners were just a right wing thing but apparently not.
 
2014-05-25 12:47:43 PM
Of course, Iran executes jaywalkers also. And people who speak loudly in theaters. And those guys over by the pool table, they're up to something, I just know it.
 
2014-05-25 12:50:24 PM

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.


Federal prison camps like the one Martha Stewart stayed in combined with work-release sentencing that allows rich people to leave the facility during the day are what give rise to the Club Fed idea.
 
2014-05-25 12:51:50 PM

hardinparamedic: So submitter wants to repeal the bill of rights and be more like a religious theocracy which murders it's own citizens?

Brilliant.


I mean, if a decent subset of the population wants a hyper-religious pseudo-moral theocratic state, we might as well get to kill a couple of bankers out of the deal.
 
2014-05-25 12:57:55 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: hardinparamedic: So submitter wants to repeal the bill of rights and be more like a religious theocracy which murders it's own citizens?

Brilliant.

I mean, if a decent subset of the population wants a hyper-religious pseudo-moral theocratic state, we might as well get to kill a couple of bankers out of the deal.


We don't have that now?
 
2014-05-25 01:02:46 PM
Meh. In Iran you can get arrested for filming yourself dancing to pop music and posting it to youtube. Being killed for fraud there isn't that surprising.
 
2014-05-25 01:03:28 PM

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.


Country club? No, but still not terrible. I used to have classes with federal prisoners. Know what they wore to class? Street clothes. Know how they got to class? They walked a couple of blocks from the holding facility to the building we had classes in. They weren't even accompanied by guards. They were on the honor system and there was a time when they were expected to be back at the holding facility. Of course the fear of being sent to a real prison with real walls and real nasty violent criminals was enough to keep most of them from even dreaming of walking away but overall it didn't appear to be a terrible situation.
 
2014-05-25 01:04:17 PM
 
2014-05-25 01:04:22 PM

kvinesknows: am I supposed to have a problem with this?


About the Iranian thing or the US thing?
 
2014-05-25 01:06:24 PM
I've never seen Fark so happy about carrying out the death penalty.

Child-raping murderer?  Think of his civil rights!  This is an outrage

Man stealing money?  You know, we should be more like Iran.

Fark Iran and their religious bullshiat.  There's a reason Orange County is filled with Persians.
/including beautiful Persian women
 
2014-05-25 01:12:44 PM

hardinparamedic: So submitter wants to repeal the bill of rights and be more like a religious theocracy which murders it's own citizens?

Brilliant.


No he just wants bankers held to a higher standard. They destroy so much that they need to answer with their lives.
 
2014-05-25 01:13:25 PM

dennysgod: Time to step up Texas, you ain't going to let some uppity Mooslim country one up ya are ya.


How many billionaires do you think there are in Texas? No, not the ones in Dallas that make 50k a year and act like one...
 
2014-05-25 01:15:47 PM
If you guys really wanted the rich crooks to be punished, you would have demanded more out of Obama or not re-elected him.  He brought in the likes of Tim Geithner, and Eric Holder. Did you really believe the guilty would get their just dues?  

Idiots or kool-aid drinkers all of you are.
 
2014-05-25 01:16:00 PM
I'm more concerned with whether I should have sliced bananas or sliced peaches with my breakfast cereal
 
2014-05-25 01:19:00 PM

Swampmaster: Well, liberals/leftist are against the death penalty; and the ACLU frequently gets Capital punishment cases changed/overturned/thrown-out: so there is that. But NOW loves Sharia law; NAACP loves when a brother becomes Muslim; and of course, leftists love Mob rule and vigilanti justice. So yeah; Iran and the Mullahs are doing it right! +1 for global death penalties and hanging trees for everyone! Sheesh



Yes, that's why all those leftist, tree-hugging, Obama lovers raced to defend Cliven Bundy out in Nevada.  It was also the left wing nutjobs that defended guys that take the law into their own hands like Zimmerman over in Florida.
 
2014-05-25 01:19:30 PM
China will execute them too.  I think we should execute them too based on the amount of money they swindled. Over 25 million, off with their heads.  Under 25 million, 25 years or so.
 
2014-05-25 01:28:30 PM

Nemo's Brother: If you guys really wanted the rich crooks to be punished, you would have demanded more out of Obama or not re-elected him.  He brought in the likes of Tim Geithner, and Eric Holder. Did you really believe the guilty would get their just dues?  

Idiots or kool-aid drinkers all of you are.


And elected Romney, who would have made sure that no bankers were guilty of anything by removing all the regulations they did violate?  Is that your solution to not re-electing Obama?

Until the Republican complete their self-destruction and we get a party worth voting for over the center-right Democrats, we have no choice but to vote Democratic, because the alternative is voting for the right-wing nutjobs.
 
2014-05-25 01:29:55 PM
Iran also does not have female motorists so that may be considered a plus.
 
2014-05-25 01:34:37 PM

JC22: AndreMA: zimbomba63: So capital punishment is now OK?  We can clean house of all the murderers?  Good, that will free up a lot of space.  I think rapists so go, too.

Nope. Capital punishment, as in Iran, is more than the slap on the wrist that many white-collar criminals receive in the US. The argument is not that we should execute more people, but that the punishment of certain groups of criminals is not severe enough.

I think we do need to execute OR make life in prison charges for these guys. The deterrents are just not there anymore and these people think "hmm...live the life for a few years or more and pay a minor penalty or some minor jail time....sign me up".

Risk/Reward is just not there.


OK, just as long we clear out all the scum, and that means the murderers and rapist, too.  Why would you want to do just the white collar criminals?

The odd thing is that the Left always says that the death penalty does not deter criminals, so we should end it. But, if they going to use it against a group they don't like, all of a sudden, shazam, it acceptable,  Very odd, indeed.
 
2014-05-25 01:35:16 PM
Appropriate punishment of our white collar criminals: take all their ill-gotten gains, and put them in forced labor camps where they pick fruit or serve hamburgers at theme parks for the rest of their lives.  Force them to live like the peasants they exploited for the rest of their lives, with no possibility of escape.

Do that to enough white collar criminals, and the ones in charge of this country might just make things a little better for the lower classes, just in case they join them one day.
 
2014-05-25 01:37:03 PM

doglover: hardinparamedic: So submitter wants to repeal the bill of rights

How is punishing people relative to the severity of their crimes against the bill of rights? Execution need be not cruel, as you well know with all your medical training, and it's certainly not unusual in the history of the US or abroad. All the other amendments in the bill just assure they'll get a fair trial and specify whether federal or state government will hear the case.

It actually makes some good sense for massive, society wide thefts to get the death penalty. A human has four score and ten years, give or take. So we'll be generous and say one human life is worth 75 years' agency. A crime is a violation of one person's agency to their own detriment. Murder, the ultimate personal crime, removes all future years of agency.

Everyone can agree a baby killer should be executed. Thus 75 years' agency or more is worth an automatic death sentence in most people's minds. So, all we have to do now is tally up how much agency a dollar is worth.

Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour at the lowest. Thus one dollar is worth 8.275 minutes of agency, minimum. 75 years is 3.94462e7 minutes. Thus, the minimum value of a human life is $4,766,912.39. So anyone who steals more than that should probably be eligible for the death penalty.


Math!
 
2014-05-25 01:37:51 PM
I bet many of those cheering the death of white collar criminals would jump at the chance to screw people over for a big payoff.
 
2014-05-25 01:40:08 PM

Abox: I bet many of those cheering the death of white collar criminals would jump at the chance to screw people over for a big payoff.


Psychological projection much?
 
2014-05-25 01:40:51 PM

kvinesknows: am I supposed to have a problem with this?


Like kvinesknows, not only do I not have a problem with this, but

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2014-05-25 01:43:12 PM

DubyaHater: I've never seen Fark so happy about carrying out the death penalty.

Child-raping murderer?  Think of his civil rights!  This is an outrage

Man stealing money?  You know, we should be more like Iran.

Fark Iran and their religious bullshiat.  There's a reason Orange County is filled with Persians.
/including beautiful Persian women


No, I'm not ok with it.

Murder by the state is NEVER ok, no matter what state is doing it, or why.

I'm actually against prison for any non-violent offender.  I don't think it's even remotely productive, and it costs us far too much money AND is a net detriment to society.

For an economic crime, I would suggest prison needs to come off the table as an option.  But I've got a great idea for a replacement:

I would suggest that we set up a system for fining people based on their assets and income, rather than a fixed fine system like we have now.  And I would suggest that we set up that system in such a manner that someone who would have been sentenced to, say, 20 years in prison will have all assets confiscated and put toward restitution, and for the next 20 years will be sentenced to live on no more than 30 hours a week of minimum wage, with no eligibility for any assistance programs.  Any income above that level is forfeited, with full restitution taking priority and if anything is left over it goes to the treasury.  And I would set this up so that it applies to anyone with assets greater than $1million and a sentence level that would be greater than 5 years.

Prison should be reserved as an option only for violent criminals, and only for so long as they continue to pose a danger to society.  I would end both murder by the state and life sentences.
 
2014-05-25 01:43:31 PM
We should be more like Iran.
 
2014-05-25 01:47:54 PM

big pig peaches: We should be more like Iran.


Yeah, that's what U.S. women always say.
 
2014-05-25 01:50:24 PM
doglover: I knew I had you favorited for a reason
 
2014-05-25 02:04:21 PM

EngineerAU: Abox: I bet many of those cheering the death of white collar criminals would jump at the chance to screw people over for a big payoff.

Psychological projection much?


Nah just perceptive.
 
2014-05-25 02:05:28 PM
Quick question: Why are the super-rich allowed to go to different prisons than the rest of the non-violent population in the Federal prison system?
 
2014-05-25 02:06:07 PM

Swampmaster: Well, liberals/leftist are against the death penalty; and the ACLU frequently gets Capital punishment cases changed/overturned/thrown-out: so there is that. But NOW loves Sharia law; NAACP loves when a brother becomes Muslim; and of course, leftists love Mob rule and vigilanti justice. So yeah; Iran and the Mullahs are doing it right! +1 for global death penalties and hanging trees for everyone! Sheesh


How dare you point out their hypocrisy. Don't you know it's not wrong if Fark Liberals support it?
 
2014-05-25 02:33:03 PM

jaytkay: Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.

Minimum security federal prisons aren't literally like country clubs, but they also aren't gang-infested rape camps like state prisons. They are like cheap college dorms.

They don't even have walls, prisoners can walk away if they want. Which is sensible. It would be a waste of money to maintain armed lockdown for prisoners who are non-violent and compliant.


I've seen The A Team. Face had it real good.
 
2014-05-25 02:34:34 PM

Need_MindBleach: Quick question: Why are the super-rich allowed to go to different prisons than the rest of the non-violent population in the Federal prison system?


Theres no Grey Poupon , filet mignon or yogurt and definitely no spring water in the PMITA prison
 
2014-05-25 02:37:50 PM

DarkVader: for the next 20 years will be sentenced to live on no more than 30 hours a week of minimum wage, with no eligibility for any assistance programs.  Any income above that level is forfeited, with full restitution taking priority and if anything is left over it goes to the treasury.

Prison should be reserved as an option only for violent criminals, and only for so long as they continue to pose a danger to society.  I would end both murder by the state and life sentences.


Aww, such a nice sentiment...except it creates more crime than it cures.

Current Federal minimum wage = $7.25/hr

7.25x30 hours/week=217.5

217.5x4weeks/month=870

$870 is not a livable wage, not even for a criminal, considering rent in most places is equal to or just barely below that. Then you have food, power, water, gas, and phone. And you say these people, on your plan, would not be eligible for assistance.

I just want to point out that the death penalty would actually be more merciful than starving or freezing them to death--which is what would occur under the idea you envision.

The reality? Anyone forced to live that way would be forced to commit crime to survive. They would become violent criminals whether they wanted to or not, especially if they had a family to support.

Your plan is unrealistic at best, cruel and unusual (forbidden by the Constitution) at worst.

A better idea would be to refocus the prisons to what they have in Norway: a far more humane system that decreases recidivism dramatically.
 
2014-05-25 02:42:33 PM

Need_MindBleach: Quick question: Why are the super-rich allowed to go to different prisons than the rest of the non-violent population in the Federal prison system?


The poor and middle class have terrible lobbyists.
 
2014-05-25 02:43:23 PM

hardinparamedic: So submitter wants to repeal the bill of rights and be more like a religious theocracy which murders it's own citizens?

Brilliant.


Is there a convenient way to approve of this comment? 4 letters or fewer?

If Federal prison were so enjoyable I would not have fought like hell to avoid it.
 
2014-05-25 02:47:15 PM

special20: dennysgod: Time to step up Texas, you ain't going to let some uppity Mooslim country one up ya are ya.

How many billionaires do you think there are in Texas? No, not the ones in Dallas that make 50k a year and act like one...


44 according to google, 3rd after CA and NY.
 
2014-05-25 02:50:19 PM

zimbomba63: JC22: AndreMA: zimbomba63: So capital punishment is now OK?  We can clean house of all the murderers?  Good, that will free up a lot of space.  I think rapists so go, too.

Nope. Capital punishment, as in Iran, is more than the slap on the wrist that many white-collar criminals receive in the US. The argument is not that we should execute more people, but that the punishment of certain groups of criminals is not severe enough.

I think we do need to execute OR make life in prison charges for these guys. The deterrents are just not there anymore and these people think "hmm...live the life for a few years or more and pay a minor penalty or some minor jail time....sign me up".

Risk/Reward is just not there.

OK, just as long we clear out all the scum, and that means the murderers and rapist, too.  Why would you want to do just the white collar criminals?

The odd thing is that the Left always says that the death penalty does not deter criminals, so we should end it. But, if they going to use it against a group they don't like, all of a sudden, shazam, it acceptable,  Very odd, indeed.


White collar criminals do far more damage to society than a rapist or murderer.  Their punishment SHOULD be more harsh.
 
2014-05-25 02:50:43 PM
Well murdering the economy should be a capital crime.
 
2014-05-25 02:51:41 PM

Abox: I bet many of those cheering the death of white collar criminals would jump at the chance to screw people over for a big payoff.


Only if it was people like the Koch brothers.

Ripping people off legally really isn't that hard. There are lot's of ways to screw the middle class and poor and make a lot of money doing it. The 'trouble' with most people is that they have empathy for their fellow humans, unlike the randian 'elites'.
 
2014-05-25 02:55:54 PM
Iran also executes people with the gay so are you saying we should model our judicial system on Iran's?
 
2014-05-25 03:01:44 PM

hasty ambush: Iran also executes people with the gay so are you saying we should model our judicial system on Iran's?


i1.ytimg.com

"Not all of it! Just little pieces!"
 
2014-05-25 03:07:28 PM
www.againstcronycapitalism.org
 
2014-05-25 03:07:51 PM

special20: dennysgod: Time to step up Texas, you ain't going to let some uppity Mooslim country one up ya are ya.

How many billionaires do you think there are in Texas? No, not the ones in Dallas that make 50k a year and act like one...


You're doing it wrong.
 
2014-05-25 03:08:17 PM

hitlersbrain: Ripping people off legally really isn't that hard. There are lot's of ways to screw the middle class and poor and make a lot of money doing it. The 'trouble' with most people is that they have empathy for their fellow humans, unlike the randian 'elites'.


Well, take your empathy and donate to the "I Still Believe Crystal Magnum Was Raped By The Duke Lacrosse Team" fund. After all, the poor dear was screwed over by rich white frat boys and then the American Justice System. Clearly she's the victim that the whole world needs to drop everything else and support.

/also, I hear Justice 4 Trayvon and Kony 2012 are still taking donations
//I'm sure they're totes legit, because they represent the oppressed
 
2014-05-25 03:08:19 PM

hardinparamedic: So submitter wants to repeal the bill of rights and be more like a religious theocracy which murders it's own citizens?

Brilliant.


And this is why nothing can get done because someone goes off the deep end. But let me "esplain it to you Lucy"...

The rich criminals pay for their violations, and that is what needs to happen here in America...
being held accountable with serious repercussions for being a farking thief no matter how rich you are.

That is the point.


And I believe there is enough evidence that the likes of the Koch brothers, a few members of the Supreme Court, Rupert Murdock and such to throw the lot of them in jail for a decade in Arapio's jail.

We just need Honest Police.
 
2014-05-25 03:10:50 PM

Stoker: We just need Honest Police.


We have honest police. Your definition of "honest" is one that simply can't be upheld in any real-world context, so I'm afraid you're in for perpetual disappointment.

/or a police state, if you actually manage to gather enough political power to make the changes you want
 
2014-05-25 03:15:38 PM
Maybe we need to take a page from Iran's book then, because I'm not crazy about my tax dollars paying for a "country club" of a prison for thieves.
 
2014-05-25 03:18:47 PM

jaytkay: Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.

Minimum security federal prisons aren't literally like country clubs, but they also aren't gang-infested rape camps like state prisons. They are like cheap college dorms.

They don't even have walls, prisoners can walk away if they want. Which is sensible. It would be a waste of money to maintain armed lockdown for prisoners who are non-violent and compliant.


Yeah it may not have a golf course and tennis courts, but with no beating or rape from prison gangs I have to say if getting provided 3 hots and a cot with no beatings or rape was the worst I had to fear Id be a criminal mastermind.

Besides any lengthy stay in real PMITA prison in general population IS a death sentence even if its less than life because you are pretty much garaunteed to get AIDS and/or Hep C from the prison rape and are gonna die a painful drawnnout death far worse than someone actually executed.
 
2014-05-25 03:20:14 PM

Tatterdemalian: hitlersbrain: Ripping people off legally really isn't that hard. There are lot's of ways to screw the middle class and poor and make a lot of money doing it. The 'trouble' with most people is that they have empathy for their fellow humans, unlike the randian 'elites'.

Well, take your empathy and donate to the "I Still Believe Crystal Magnum Was Raped By The Duke Lacrosse Team" fund. After all, the poor dear was screwed over by rich white frat boys and then the American Justice System. Clearly she's the victim that the whole world needs to drop everything else and support.

/also, I hear Justice 4 Trayvon and Kony 2012 are still taking donations
//I'm sure they're totes legit, because they represent the oppressed


Anyone else hear the theme music from The Twilight Zone just now?
 
2014-05-25 03:20:57 PM
The issue isn't whether white collar criminals should be executed or whether sentences should be proportional. It's the mindset that America has about crimes committed by wealthy businessmen that "don't really hurt anyone" and financial crimes in general.

Consider Lee Farkas and Taylor Bean Whitaker. By the time Farkas was done, he had stolen several billion dollars, engineered the collapse of Colonial Bank, the 6th largest bank failure in US history; cost hundreds of brokers and employees of TBW their jobs; the ripple effect devastated the town of Ocala Florida; and up to half a million people across America have no idea who holds the mortgage on their homes and are at risk of foreclosure despite regular payments. Farkas was given 30 years, but is seeking acquittal on the grounds of "lack of evidence." His sister feels his sentence was too harsh because "he didn't kill anyone."

Although the trend has changed in recent years, the idea that financial crimes--bank fraud, Medicare fraud, insurance fraud, etc.--aren't as serious as crimes against the person because there are no physical injuries have led to minor sentences, modest fines, and the need for federal agencies to build extensive cases over a period of years or decades to develop. (Which is why such criminals get to go to nice cushy federal prisons instead of state hellholes)

Between 2008-2010, at least half a dozen criminals were indicted for crimes like Bernie Madoff's, at totals of over a billion apiece. Such Ponzi schemes and mortgage frauds are undoubtedly the reason the economy tanked so hard and took so long to recover--yet apart from financial wonks nobody ever heard of them. But we're all still paying for their crimes. They should all be paying, and paying hard.
 
2014-05-25 03:22:57 PM

Warlordtrooper: zimbomba63: JC22: AndreMA: zimbomba63: So capital punishment is now OK?  We can clean house of all the murderers?  Good, that will free up a lot of space.  I think rapists so go, too.

Nope. Capital punishment, as in Iran, is more than the slap on the wrist that many white-collar criminals receive in the US. The argument is not that we should execute more people, but that the punishment of certain groups of criminals is not severe enough.

I think we do need to execute OR make life in prison charges for these guys. The deterrents are just not there anymore and these people think "hmm...live the life for a few years or more and pay a minor penalty or some minor jail time....sign me up".

Risk/Reward is just not there.

OK, just as long we clear out all the scum, and that means the murderers and rapist, too.  Why would you want to do just the white collar criminals?

The odd thing is that the Left always says that the death penalty does not deter criminals, so we should end it. But, if they going to use it against a group they don't like, all of a sudden, shazam, it acceptable,  Very odd, indeed.

White collar criminals do far more damage to society than a rapist or murderer.  Their punishment SHOULD be more harsh.


Living in the Chicago area, I would say street gangs do more damage, thus, summary execution is required.
 
2014-05-25 03:36:54 PM
So ... can we send them to Iran?
 
2014-05-25 03:44:32 PM

AndreMA: The argument is not that we should execute more people, but that the punishment of certain groups of criminals is not severe enough.


My argument is that we don't execute enough financial criminals.  The only reason no one's even tried to assassinate these overlords is that it's the violence-averse political left complaining, and they don't own BB guns, much less sniper rifles.
 
2014-05-25 03:51:00 PM
Stoker: We just need Honest Police.

Tatterdemalian: We have honest police. Your definition of "honest" is one that simply can't be upheld in any real-world context, so I'm afraid you're in for perpetual disappointment.

/or a police state, if you actually manage to gather enough political power to make the changes you want


I didn't define the word honest because that shouldn't need defining. What you seem to need a definition on is the word "Police".

Our entire Judicial system is the "Police".
It is there for a reason. It's supposed to be run on truth and honesty to deter or punish the crooks of society.
It's full of dishonest people.

But you are right, we are not going to find enough "Serpicos" to fix the system.... because Americans have lost their humanity.
We are becoming more like Mexico every day.
 
2014-05-25 04:00:26 PM

EngineerAU: Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.

Country club? No, but still not terrible. I used to have classes with federal prisoners. Know what they wore to class? Street clothes. Know how they got to class? They walked a couple of blocks from the holding facility to the building we had classes in. They weren't even accompanied by guards. They were on the honor system and there was a time when they were expected to be back at the holding facility. Of course the fear of being sent to a real prison with real walls and real nasty violent criminals was enough to keep most of them from even dreaming of walking away but overall it didn't appear to be a terrible situation.


A few years back I worked as an officer in the federal prison system, no where in the system are inmates aloud to wear street clothes. There are a few instances where inmates who are in the federal prison camps and or satalite prison camps can leave the grounds for duties and or jobs assigned to them such as trash hauling and what not but they are required to be dressed in the issued uniforms, street clothing is contraband unless reissued for a furlough or release, besides that it is confiscated which would mean them getting a shot which would up their points which would then lead to them being transfered to a higher security clasified facility which no one doing at a camp wants.

People tend to only think of federal prisons in one regard for the most part, that being the low security instititions as the ones described above where they literally could walk away if they wanted to. Those places are the minority of Federal institutions. There is something like 14 different types of institutions that house inmates in the Federal system for something like 120 institutions spread around like 39 states and one in Puerto Rico if I remember correctly. The lowest security being the camps and then all the way to the ADX which is the federals equivilant to a state supermax. Definately not country club environments anywhere in the Federal system, camps not horrible places but you fack up and your going to higher security institutions, most of which are not so nice places, "bloody" Beaumont comes to mind.
 
2014-05-25 04:07:11 PM

hitlersbrain: Abox: I bet many of those cheering the death of white collar criminals would jump at the chance to screw people over for a big payoff.

Only if it was people like the Koch brothers.

Ripping people off legally really isn't that hard. There are lot's of ways to screw the middle class and poor and make a lot of money doing it. The 'trouble' with most people is that they have empathy for their fellow humans, unlike the randian 'elites'.


Bullshiat.  The trouble with most people is that it's easy to point the finger when they don't have immediate access to the tools of white collar crime.  I don't doubt there are some truly empathetic folks out there, but I guarantee they're standing side by side with unfocused sleazeballs.
 
2014-05-25 04:16:57 PM

Aigoo: DarkVader: for the next 20 years will be sentenced to live on no more than 30 hours a week of minimum wage, with no eligibility for any assistance programs.  Any income above that level is forfeited, with full restitution taking priority and if anything is left over it goes to the treasury.

Prison should be reserved as an option only for violent criminals, and only for so long as they continue to pose a danger to society.  I would end both murder by the state and life sentences.

Aww, such a nice sentiment...except it creates more crime than it cures.

Current Federal minimum wage = $7.25/hr

7.25x30 hours/week=217.5

217.5x4weeks/month=870

$870 is not a livable wage, not even for a criminal, considering rent in most places is equal to or just barely below that. Then you have food, power, water, gas, and phone. And you say these people, on your plan, would not be eligible for assistance.

I just want to point out that the death penalty would actually be more merciful than starving or freezing them to death--which is what would occur under the idea you envision.

The reality? Anyone forced to live that way would be forced to commit crime to survive. They would become violent criminals whether they wanted to or not, especially if they had a family to support.

Your plan is unrealistic at best, cruel and unusual (forbidden by the Constitution) at worst.

A better idea would be to refocus the prisons to what they have in Norway: a far more humane system that decreases recidivism dramatically.


So you admit minimum wage is criminally low, then?  I am absolutely in favor of a $15-$20 minimum wage automatically indexed to inflation in the US.  But that's not really the point here.

The point is that prison for non-violent criminals costs us money, and is completely unnecessary.  And of course that murder by the state is inherently cruel and unusual, inherently immoral, and should never happen anywhere in the world.

There are cheaper housing options than a single apartment.  They may not be in a desirable place, but you can rent an old mobile home for $250/month in some places.  And an $800/month apartment is only $200/month with 3 roommates (and there are plenty of potential roommates, given that I'm suggesting doing this for ALL white collar criminals).  The food isn't going to be great, but it'll certainly be better than prison food.  It's absolutely possible to keep warm on what's left.  It's not luxury, but it's survival, and it doesn't cost taxpayers anything at all.  So, let's run the numbers - $200 for rent (4 bedroom apartment, split 4 ways, can actually be had for less), $50 for phone, $250 for food (very doable, it's about what I spend on groceries every month, and I actually eat pretty well), $50 for utilities (that might be high, apartment utilities here are typically under $150/month for a 4 bedroom apartment), $20 for internet (again, probably a bit high, but that's nice fast service split 4 ways), $50 for transportation (that's the price of a monthly bus pass here).  So, that brings us to $620/month in expenses.  That still leaves $250/month out of your $870.  That'll cover some clothing purchases, an occasional fast food meal, and even an occasional doctor/dentist visit.

And I would in no way suggest that the family, if there is one, wouldn't be eligible for assistance, only that the white-collar criminal himself wouldn't.  I wouldn't allow the criminal to live with the family, but he could visit so long as he didn't sleep there.

I'll even make one exception to the no assistance - I'd allow medicaid in states that have expanded medicaid to cover people within 133% of poverty, since I'm in favor of national single-payer healthcare anyway.  In the other states, EMTALA is still in effect, if they don't expand medicaid soon they'll bankrupt themselves soon anyway if they don't expand medicaid.

I don't see it as cruel or unusual, it's less cruel than prison, it only requires 30 hours per week of work (though it doesn't prohibit more, it only restricts money kept), it in no way restricts the job opportunities available, only the amount of pay that can be kept, and if it were to be carried out as I suggest, for all nonviolent criminals, it would, by definition, not be unusual.

And I would argue that it won't create violent criminals either.  The white collar criminal isn't typically a violent person, and unlike in prison where a non-violent person can easily get an education in violent crime, there isn't the easy access to violent people to push someone in that direction.  There may be a few who would resort to violence, but for them, there is prison.

And for where prison is necessary, I would absolutely agree that Norway may be the country that gets it closes to right, and we should absolutely adopt that system.
 
2014-05-25 04:19:51 PM

dropdfun: EngineerAU: Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.

Country club? No, but still not terrible. I used to have classes with federal prisoners. Know what they wore to class? Street clothes. Know how they got to class? They walked a couple of blocks from the holding facility to the building we had classes in. They weren't even accompanied by guards. They were on the honor system and there was a time when they were expected to be back at the holding facility. Of course the fear of being sent to a real prison with real walls and real nasty violent criminals was enough to keep most of them from even dreaming of walking away but overall it didn't appear to be a terrible situation.

A few years back I worked as an officer in the federal prison system, no where in the system are inmates aloud to wear street clothes. There are a few instances where inmates who are in the federal prison camps and or satalite prison camps can leave the grounds for duties and or jobs assigned to them such as trash hauling and what not but they are required to be dressed in the issued uniforms, street clothing is contraband unless reissued for a furlough or release, besides that it is confiscated which would mean them getting a shot which would up their points which would then lead to them being transfered to a higher security clasified facility which no one doing at a camp wants.

People tend to only think of federal prisons in one regard for the most part, that being the low security instititions as the ones described above where they literally could walk away if they wanted to. Those places are the minority of Federal institutions. There is something like 14 different types of institutions that house inmates in the Federal system for something like 120 institutions spread around like 39 states and one in Puerto Rico if I remember correctly. The lo ...


I'm going to make a guess here that the situation described isn't a prison, but a federal prisoner finishing a sentence in a halfway house.  Those allow street clothes.
 
2014-05-25 04:45:05 PM
Spiffy tag?  Free Mumia?
 
2014-05-25 04:46:07 PM
http://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/but/

This is Butner Federal Correctional Facility in North Carolina. It's where Bernie Madoff, among others, is doing his time. There is a medium-security locked facility as well as a minimum-security camp and a medical center on the grounds. At the medium, it's pretty much like any prison; the minimum is a less-restrictive facility for low-risk or short-term inmates.

Because of the nature of the crimes and types of sentences in federal facilities, and the types of inmates normally committed to such facilities, you just don't get the kind of PMITA prisons that are common in state facilities (sorry, ass-rape lovers). These are guys popped for FEDERAL crimes, which are therefore conspiracy, trafficking, fraud, RICO violations, etc., and not crimes against the person. Thus, even at the supermax in Marion, you just don't have the degree of violence and stress you see at even the mildest of medium security state prisons.

It's not "Club Fed" in that the inmates are living lives of luxury; but it's not a beatdown a day either.
 
2014-05-25 04:58:39 PM
We send them to prison now?
When did this start?
 
2014-05-25 05:29:29 PM
There's over a billion dollars (collectively) in Iran??? Wow.
 
2014-05-25 06:40:18 PM

serialsuicidebomber: There's over a billion dollars (collectively) in Iran??? Wow.


And a single dude stole all of it!  Every red cent!
 
2014-05-25 06:47:06 PM
And a 19 year old guy in Round Rock, Texas is looking at a Life Term in jail for pot brownies.
 
2014-05-25 06:53:50 PM

dropdfun: A few years back I worked as an officer in the federal prison system, no where in the system are inmates aloud to wear street clothes.


You should inform whoever was in charge of the federal prison on Maxwell AFB in the mid 90s because unless standard prison issue are golf shirts in various colors and jeans, the prisoners in our classes were in street clothes.
 
2014-05-25 06:55:33 PM

zimbomba63: So capital punishment is now OK?  We can clean house of all the murderers?  Good, that will free up a lot of space.  I think rapists so go, too.


Fair point.

IF I was a fan of capital punishment, then I'd be happy to hear about this kind of criminal getting executed.  But since I'm not, let's just see them tossed in jail for a decade or two.  Treat them with the same level of mercy we give rapists and murderers.

Actually, no, scratch that.  That's a pretty low bar.  Improve prison conditions, treat prisoners more humanly regardless of why they're in prison.  But I still think a decade isn't too harsh for this kind of thing.
 
2014-05-25 06:59:15 PM

Abox: hitlersbrain: Abox: I bet many of those cheering the death of white collar criminals would jump at the chance to screw people over for a big payoff.

Only if it was people like the Koch brothers.

Ripping people off legally really isn't that hard. There are lot's of ways to screw the middle class and poor and make a lot of money doing it. The 'trouble' with most people is that they have empathy for their fellow humans, unlike the randian 'elites'.

Bullshiat.  The trouble with most people is that it's easy to point the finger when they don't have immediate access to the tools of white collar crime.  I don't doubt there are some truly empathetic folks out there, but I guarantee they're standing side by side with unfocused sleazeballs.


You're really tripling down on your confessions of what you would do to everyone else if you had the means. Just because you have no empathy doesn't mean no one else does. You may dream of someday being a top white collar criminal but that doesn't mean most everybody else aspires to it.
 
2014-05-25 08:30:47 PM

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.


You are not completely right. Also you are not completely wrong.

However, if you could see the bullshiat going on in our prisons and the crap the inmates are handed, and the better treatment they get than our vets or homeless, you would have an apoplectic fit. The diaper snipers and thugs have more rights than you do.

And you know what? There is not a god-damned thing I can do to change it because the big boys are crooked and getting paid off by special interest groups. You can't do anything either because they make sure no one can prove it.
 
2014-05-25 09:26:09 PM

EngineerAU: Abox: hitlersbrain: Abox: I bet many of those cheering the death of white collar criminals would jump at the chance to screw people over for a big payoff.

Only if it was people like the Koch brothers.

Ripping people off legally really isn't that hard. There are lot's of ways to screw the middle class and poor and make a lot of money doing it. The 'trouble' with most people is that they have empathy for their fellow humans, unlike the randian 'elites'.

Bullshiat.  The trouble with most people is that it's easy to point the finger when they don't have immediate access to the tools of white collar crime.  I don't doubt there are some truly empathetic folks out there, but I guarantee they're standing side by side with unfocused sleazeballs.

You're really tripling down on your confessions of what you would do to everyone else if you had the means. Just because you have no empathy doesn't mean no one else does. You may dream of someday being a top white collar criminal but that doesn't mean most everybody else aspires to it.


I have the means just not the inclination. Empathy doesn't even factor...I have my own business to mind.
 
2014-05-25 10:07:30 PM

Swampmaster: Well, liberals/leftist are against the death penalty; and the ACLU frequently gets Capital punishment cases changed/overturned/thrown-out: so there is that. But NOW loves Sharia law; NAACP loves when a brother becomes Muslim; and of course, leftists love Mob rule and vigilanti justice. So yeah; Iran and the Mullahs are doing it right! +1 for global death penalties and hanging trees for everyone! Sheesh


Not sure if all the lefties liked this.

upload.wikimedia.org

/hot linky.
 
2014-05-25 11:11:27 PM

DarkVader: DubyaHater: I've never seen Fark so happy about carrying out the death penalty.

Child-raping murderer?  Think of his civil rights!  This is an outrage

Man stealing money?  You know, we should be more like Iran.

Fark Iran and their religious bullshiat.  There's a reason Orange County is filled with Persians.
/including beautiful Persian women

No, I'm not ok with it.

Murder by the state is NEVER ok, no matter what state is doing it, or why.

I'm actually against prison for any non-violent offender.  I don't think it's even remotely productive, and it costs us far too much money AND is a net detriment to society.

For an economic crime, I would suggest prison needs to come off the table as an option.  But I've got a great idea for a replacement:

I would suggest that we set up a system for fining people based on their assets and income, rather than a fixed fine system like we have now.  And I would suggest that we set up that system in such a manner that someone who would have been sentenced to, say, 20 years in prison will have all assets confiscated and put toward restitution, and for the next 20 years will be sentenced to live on no more than 30 hours a week of minimum wage, with no eligibility for any assistance programs.  Any income above that level is forfeited, with full restitution taking priority and if anything is left over it goes to the treasury.  And I would set this up so that it applies to anyone with assets greater than $1million and a sentence level that would be greater than 5 years.

Prison should be reserved as an option only for violent criminals, and only for so long as they continue to pose a danger to society.  I would end both murder by the state and life sentences.


does not one of the scandahoovian countries do this? fines a re based on income
 
2014-05-25 11:11:34 PM

EngineerAU: dropdfun: A few years back I worked as an officer in the federal prison system, no where in the system are inmates aloud to wear street clothes.

You should inform whoever was in charge of the federal prison on Maxwell AFB in the mid 90s because unless standard prison issue are golf shirts in various colors and jeans, the prisoners in our classes were in street clothes.


That was the mid 90's, policy and procedures change constantly with that organization. I bet you saw BOP staff wearing some gay ass greyish blazers and what not, now they wear some gay ass blue utility uniforms, things change.  I was employed with them for 2 years but got picked up by another agency in 2007 so during the mid 2000's it was the policy that no civilian clothes at all were aloud, considered escape paraphernalia. Could it be different again now, possibly but doubt it, was sound reasoning behind those policies.
 
2014-05-26 03:11:05 AM

Mole Man: Not sure if all the lefties liked this.


Kill the spirit and you'll be blinded, the end is always the same...
 
2014-05-26 03:19:51 AM
Execute em? Here in 'murica we have congress pass a pre-emptive amnesty bill.
 
2014-05-26 08:47:22 AM

Next week's Tom Sawyer: There are no Federal prisons that are like country clubs. None. That myth is perpetuated by derps who otherwise spend their time cheering on people like Joe Arpaio.


Well maybe not in the US. Check out Bastoy in Norway though.
 
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