The Bush Administration is yet to decide whether to release the 40-minute video, which it says proves bin Laden had prior knowledge of the attacks on the US. But the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said it showed the Saudi-born terrorist at a dinner last month, apparently "amused by the fact that some of these people who were martyred thought they were just taking part in a hijacking".

PROOF ENOUGH I WOULD SAY.

Fb- It's not hippy/peace/love/equality/smoke pot, it's called critical thinking. What is so wrong about wanting to be certain the gov't is doing the right thing? This is America, a DEMOCRACY -- we're not supposed to sit back and trust our government is doing the right thing, we ARE the government. The Afghan people sat back and trusted the new administration after it drove out the Russians. That gov't was the Taliban. Bad things happen when a people became complacent.

Rapier, if you're gonna use logic to fight, I'm just gonna take my ball and leave ;-)

Ozzie-Pride-

just out of curiousity, proof of what?

LordWatson

It looks like American interest has done them more harm than good
Is the Cold War such dim, distant history that you can make this statement with a straight font? Millions killed under Stalin, Lenin and Soviet puppets around the world, and "killed" doesn't even get to oppression and deprivation of millions and millions more.

I know the only US TV you get is from Buffalo and all, but I don't remember "America" threatening to cease its involvment in any sphere of the globe. I do remember America being asked to intervene by several national and supranational (EU, e.g.) governments to intervene around the world.
But, hey, let's leave Taiwan to the tender mercies of China; the Tibetans fared so well, after all.

Rei: So the US shouldn't get in the way if the Arabs want to exterminate the Israelis?

US makes policy decisions that make American lives easier at the expense of others. Like: Manufacturing clothes in foreign sweatshops and using deathsquads (and propped up corrupt governemnts) to intimidate workers.

What? Link, please.

By deposing democratically elected leaders in foreign countries by assasination or other methods because their existence is unprofitable to America.

Partially true (Bay of Pigs). Though recognized by the US, Castro is hardly "democratically elected."

America keeps threatening to internalise and stop being a world cop. Please do.

Frankly, I wish we would. We could concentrate on making our nation a better place, instead of getting involved in every territorial pissing, ethnic massacre, and revolt that comes along.

Rei--

You asked Fb- (sorry to butt in here):

"Why do you think there is such widespread anti-US sentiment, especially in arab countries? Is it all due to hundreds of millions of people being "crazy", or "evil"?"

Well, to go to the heart of the matter, the U.S. is hated by Arab countries in particular for a very fundamental reason. They perceive us to be the Big Brother to Israel. It's that simple. We support Israel. They hate Israel. Therefore, they hate us and our ways.

BTW ... I'm hopeful that U.S. foreign plicy is not solely based upon whether or not it would make other countries hate us. All this "hand-wringing" about whether other countries hate us is so puerile.

I say ... you like us? Fine.
You hate us? Your loss and too bad.

Well so many people are saying WHERE IS THE PROOF?...I do hope they release this video...

Nuke em till they glow and shoot them in the dark. being nice to people and all is ok, but attack out civilians and we should use the tact. nukes and take that mountain down. we know there are no innocents there.

As to other countries hateing America...someone please show us all where 1 country has actually said that they hate America?

No-One can cause it is all a crock of shiat

fb is a woman? i guess i missed that one. who believes that it's true? my vote is no. (however i do agree with fb on this issue and am always entertained by his/her comments)

Icehouse,

Tell me exactly where I was trying to justify their actions, you ass.

Willing to acknowledge something and agreeing with it are two very different things. History books don't have "THIS IS RIGHT" and "THIS IS WRONG" stickers on every page. I'm not trying to say it was the right thing to do. I'm trying to say "There was a reason why it happened."

yeah, ozzie, if that's true, then that's a whole other side of obl i havent much thought about. if he was using the men to help him perform what he thought was a high, holy event, then thats one thing. but it seemed he took some sick, sadistic pleasure from their naivete. seems psychopathic to me, which seems to undercut that whole "islam vs. USA" argument.

said it showed the Saudi-born terrorist at a dinner last month, apparently "amused by the fact that some of these people who were martyred thought they were just taking part in a hijacking"

There is another part in the video that shows OBL tearing a strip off of the waiter because his steak was medium well not the usual medium rare.

Greggy,

Are you still here? So you're somehow being insightful by acknowledging that they were really pissed at us for some reason? Yeah you're a real genious. F$ck off you idiot!

Warren Peese
We support Israel. They hate Israel. Therefore, they hate us and our ways.

i would like to add that every bullet or rocket fire that kills an arab is directly related to us in their eyes. We made them the power they are but if we hadn't they wouldn't exist right now.

I just love it how some people have selective hearing and selective reading abilities. I wish I had this talent. It could've saved me a whole lot of trouble and pain some time ago.

Chainsaw, I am happy to inform you that you are WRONG, the US is not a Democracy, but a Republic. In a Democracy everyone has a say in everything that goes on. In the case of the US you elect people that you hope represent how you want your vote cast, and that is a Republic.

A Typical thread here at Fark...

Person1: Anti-war tread. Gun nuts. Bombs are evil. Flame Flame Flame Flame Flame

Fb-: They are defending your life.

Person2: Yeah but Anti-war tread. Gun nuts. Bombs are evil. Flame Flame Flame Flame Flame

Fb-: You don't understand that hard decisions need to be made.

Person1: I'm not listening. Anti-war tread. Gun nuts. Bombs are evil. Flame Flame Flame Flame Flame

Person2: Who cares? Anti-war tread. Gun nuts. Bombs are evil. Flame Flame Flame Flame Flame

Fb-: Listen if they had their way your life would suck and you wouldn't have the freedoms you have..

Person1: I don't care I don't live there I wouldn't want government like that... Anti-war tread. Gun nuts. Bombs are evil. Don't know physics. Flame Flame Flame Flame Flame

Person3: Maybe we could ask them to stop hurting us. Anti-war tread. Gun nuts. Bombs are evil. Flame Flame Flame Flame Flame

Person4: Bomb the crap out of them!

Fb-: *sigh* Like throwing diamonds in the mouths of pigs...

*MadLeaf Bows out*

Are you still here? So you're somehow being insightful by acknowledging that they were really pissed at us for some reason?

Ever wonder what that reason may have been?

Nah, that would go against the whole "let other people do the thinking for me" mentality.

Rei: So the US shouldn't get in the way if the Arabs want to exterminate the Israelis?

That's a laughable concept. The Palestineans (who we're concerned about in this conflict) couldn't take out the Israelis even if the US military donated all the tanks and bombs in our arsenal. The Israelis are nuclear.

As to other countries hateing America...someone please show us all where 1 country has actually said that they hate America? No-One can cause it is all a crock of shiat

Waaaait... are you *honestly* trying to claim that the average person on the street in most arab countries doesn't, at the *very least* dislike the US?

Um... please tell me that you're not trying to imply that ;) Otherwise, we might as well start debating whether gravity is pulling us towards earth ;)

Greggy
huh?
;)

intuitive cat: Bin Laden's guilty. Everyone knows it, but we just hadn't told you yet.

Overpaid Slacker: What good did America do during the Cold War except arm itself and the rest of the world to the teeth? The weapons America gave away in Africa are still being used for slaughter at the tribal level. The Soviets are equally at fault. You are all assholes.

I'm going to bow out of this discussion now, I know all you war mongering NRA members are gonna cheer but I don't think anything real is being discussed. It's all "I'm right", "no I'm right", without any listening. If anyone ever wanted to seriously address the world's problems I guess they're not going to do it here.

So let the bickering continue:

Fb-: Kill em all, let god sort him out, that's what my trailertrash dad use to say right before he used to assfark me.

Icehouse: yeah nukes hehe nukes, kill people who don't look like me (in best Beavis voice)

Hey Fb, not all arabs are muslims. I mean, duh!

if he was using the men to help him perform what he thought was a high, holy event, then thats one thing. but it seemed he took some sick, sadistic pleasure from their naivete.

In reality, just like Hitler didn't plan all of the details of the concentration camps, bin Laden probably didn't do most of the planning for this attack. He probably did the general "lets set up a team of sleeper agents to crash a plane into major US landmarks", worked on some of the high-level design, but left most of the planning to people below him.

It's still sick, mind you :)

Though, of course, no more sick than using aerial-only targetting, on big cities, with unclear targets below (i.e., "a jeep" or "a building with a jeep outside"), with weapons that, at the *very best* hit 85-90% of the time - and then pretending that you're "helping civilians".

I'm just glad Greggy isn't on our side. If we were overmatched militarily, we might need to understand our enemy. Since we aren't, let's kill them.

Interesting debate tactic -- focusing on a minor perceived flaw in an argument in order to discount the whole. Here's a dictionary definition (and I don't want to get into a debate about "pure" or "social" democracy):
democracy
SYLLABICATION: de·moc·ra·cy
NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. de·moc·ra·cies
1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives. (emphasis added by Chainsaw)
2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4. Majority rule.
5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

"gravity is pulling us towards earth"

hahahahahahahahahahah that is really funny :>
(really is a funny comment, still laughing)

Rei:
"That's a laughable concept. The Palestineans (who we're concerned about in this conflict) couldn't take out the Israelis even if the US military donated all the tanks and bombs in our arsenal. The Israelis are nuclear."

Give ya 5 bucks to tell me who gave them the plutonium and pump millions yearly to them.. :P

BTW.. All of this goes back to the "7 day war".. Do you rememer that one?

Someone once said that [a paraphrase]:

You can define yourself by your enemies.

Therefore, I'm glad that idiots and fanatics like Osama and Arafat and ALL their followers hate us (the U.S.). It should show any reasonable person that we are in the right side of history.

CK just following the leftist suit, pick apart, find minor flaw and semi-flame said commentor cause i'm too close minded to read for the meaning of the comment and want to be an ass about semantics(sp?).

85-90% is DAMNED GOOD. And it is helping civilians.

Even if smart weapons are only 25% more accurate than dumb bombs, that still equals a 25% decrease in potential civilian casualty.

There will always be collateral damage in war... smart weapons are meant to be effective at eliminating specific targets, AND eliminating that collateral damage. It's to 100%, but it's much better than the carpet bombings of WW2.

If the Taliban were in the position... i doubt they'd care about collateral damage. Hell, they'd probably target them.

So comparing that to concentration camps is EXTREMELY short-sighted.

LordWatson:
Why not just ask the citizens of the former Soviet republics what good the US did, as well as those on the receiving end of the Marshall Plan.
The weapon of choice in the Third World is the AK-47, a huge % of which are Chinese-made, by the way. And they'd still be killing each other without US or other foreign weapons, just more savagely.
Come back when you cool off; not every difference of opinion has to be escalated into an ad hominem attack. Although, sadly if you watch American congressional politics at all, you'd assume that to be the case.
In the interim, we'll keep holding up the umbrella for our friends (incl. the Great White North) around the world.

Maybe they hate us because every landmine and bomb has "made in the u.s.a." on it. Or maybe it's because we pick and choose which governments to support and which to label as terrorists when in many cases the governments are surprisingly alike. Just look at the recent bombings in Gaza,

Also, don't kid yourselves about this war; Oil is always at stake when it comes to the Middle East. If most of al Queada are Saudis and/or funded by Saudis, then why have we gone so easy on the Saudi Arabia? Why aren't we bombing them?

Ahh my... Less than 250 posts.. weak... Remember though, we (the USA) trained bin laden. This is not a cut and dry issue..... At one time, Warren, Osama was considered a friend of the USA...... And yes, I am glad to be on the side of the USA, but I also don't pretend that I (or the USA) is in anyway perfect........

Icehouse

I'm just glad Greggy isn't on our side. If we were overmatched militarily, we might need to understand our enemy. Since we aren't, let's kill them.


I've run a gaming forum, with over a thousand registered members, for over a year now - and you are the single most retarded person I have ever seen to successfully mash a submit button.

The Palestineans (who we're concerned about in this conflict) couldn't take out the Israelis even if the US military donated all the tanks and bombs in our arsenal.

Okay, I'll rephrase. The US should just stand by and let wave after wave of religious nuts, suicide bombers, and other assorted gunmen attack the Israelis without lending a hand? They may not be able to take ALL the Israelis out, but they sure can kill a lot of them. Should we just stand by and watch as Hamas continues to attack Israel?

The Israelis are nuclear.

What is that, a trump? Do you want them to use their nuke? Without US support, it may come down to that.

Remember though, we (the USA) trained bin laden. This is not a cut and dry issue..... At one time, Warren, Osama was considered a friend of the USA......

BING! Gr00vey runs up another one on the "The US Doesn't Have a Crystal Ball!" counter.

...use their nuke? Without US support, it may come down to that.

No it won't.

Greggy,

What's your game forum got to do with anything? Oh I get it. You're such a loser in life that you are proud of this awesome responsibility. Well I'm happy for you Greggy. Little Greggy runs a game forum all by himself. What's next for you? I honestly didn't know I was arguing with such an important person. We are all impressed.

"made in the USA" on the landmines? I thought most of them said "If you can read this...bye" sorry... that was in poor taste...lol

"you are the single most retarded person I have ever seen to successfully mash a submit button."

2 seriously funny statements in 15 minutes

Freddiemiles1

No matter what decision or course of action a nation of our stature may make, these will be approved by some and rejected and deplored by others. It's sort of like "economic news" whereas all news of the economy is good for some and bad for others.
Hey ... that's the crazy world we live in, pal.

And ... I won't even bother to respond to the why aren't we bombing Saudi Arabia question.

Hey Gr00vey--

I finally agree with you!!!!

Bingo! The U.S. is NOT perfect.

Face it, Warren. Saudi Arabia sucks ass, man. Those farkers. We should have let Saddam rip them a new asshole. Why didn't we?

Freddie: Better hope not.

You guys!

Skwidd--

Freddiemiles1 is here only to bait us Farkers. Must be somehow related to Harmonia.

;^)

[But that don't make him a "bad" guy]