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(CNN)   HP tells 16,000 workers to cache out   (money.cnn.com) divider line 62
    More: Fail, Hewlett-Packard, business unit, cache  
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1488 clicks; posted to Business » on 23 May 2014 at 8:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-23 05:33:59 AM  
"HP said the latest layoffs would come across all its business units and geographic locations, and would generate $1 billion in annual savings beyond the $3.5 to $4 billion projected from the previously announced cuts."

Save.  It will save billions that would otherwise be out moving in the economy.

Savings.  For whom?  What is this being saved for?  Are you HP guys eating OK?  I can send some food over.

PS, What do Carly Fiorina's wrinkly pissflaps taste like?
 
2014-05-23 07:16:54 AM  
Yea! Executive bonuses are going to be incredible!
 
2014-05-23 08:43:37 AM  
They can stop making computers any time, but they are not allowed to stop making printers/copiers etc.


/best damn machines out there
 
2014-05-23 08:58:30 AM  
Must have been the bad weather.

But seriously, we just need less people to produce the goods that people want.  We need to shift to some sort of basic income program, or we're going to end up with a lot of angry young unemployed people.
 
2014-05-23 09:06:12 AM  
50,000 people over 2 years. So far. 1/7th of their company. Likely more on the way.

Revenue was down. This won't help.
 
2014-05-23 09:12:39 AM  

bunner: "HP said the latest layoffs would come across all its business units and geographic locations, and would generate $1 billion in annual savings beyond the $3.5 to $4 billion projected from the previously announced cuts."

Save.  It will save billions that would otherwise be out moving in the economy.

Savings.  For whom?  What is this being saved for?  Are you HP guys eating OK?  I can send some food over.

PS, What do Carly Fiorina's wrinkly pissflaps taste like?


Imagine how much they cold save if they laid off everyone.
 
2014-05-23 09:23:51 AM  

MattStafford: Must have been the bad weather.

But seriously, we just need less people to produce the goods that people want.  We need to shift to some sort of basic income program, or we're going to end up with a lot of angry young unemployed people.


Improvements in efficiency have never happened before! Totally unprecedented.
 
2014-05-23 09:29:14 AM  
It never affects the rich until it does....my family owned a lot of real estate and businesses in Shang Hai prior to the fall of the nationalist government (KMT).  In fact my family had been around making a lot of money since the Ching dynasty.  However, it really didn't matter when angry young revolutionaries came to our families properties and threw my great grandfather out on the street and shot his 4 brothers and 2 sisters for being anti revolutionaries or "rich elitists". Others were sent to work camps but our family basically lost everything within a relatively fast period.  Vast wealth disparity breeds anger and resentment.  If we aren't willing to peacefully resolve it through reason, it will be resolved at the end of a rifle barrel.  I have hope that the USA can be a positive force for change and do so before we see blood in the streets.  To let so much wealth, knowledge and social advancement be lost to the fires of rage and revenge would be a deep tragedy.    I forget but I think that old racist Winston Churchill said something like "America will always do the right thing after it has exhausted all other options" I hope we still enough time for America to prove his maxim to be true.
 
2014-05-23 09:31:27 AM  

YixilTesiphon: Improvements in efficiency have never happened before! Totally unprecedented.


This isn't your run of the mill technological improvement.  This is technology simply becoming better than humans at nearly everything.  Better at responding to stimuli, better at parsing data, more adept, quicker, faster - gazing into a crystal ball, what discrete tasks do you think humans will be better at than robots in ten to fifteen years?  Creative endeavors, but outside of that, robots will rule.
 
2014-05-23 09:34:07 AM  

MattStafford: YixilTesiphon: Improvements in efficiency have never happened before! Totally unprecedented.

This isn't your run of the mill technological improvement.  This is technology simply becoming better than humans at nearly everything.  Better at responding to stimuli, better at parsing data, more adept, quicker, faster - gazing into a crystal ball, what discrete tasks do you think humans will be better at than robots in ten to fifteen years?  Creative endeavors, but outside of that, robots will rule.


Neither was mechanization. That didn't lead to mass, permanent unemployment either, just different employment.
 
2014-05-23 09:34:50 AM  

InterruptingQuirk: They can stop making computers any time, but they are not allowed to stop making printers/copiers etc.


This.  I have yet to find a better printer for my environment than an HP 9050.
 
2014-05-23 09:37:21 AM  
They need to return to their core competency - selling DEC VAX-11 systems.
 
2014-05-23 09:40:40 AM  

InterruptingQuirk: They can stop making computers any time, but they are not allowed to stop making printers/copiers etc.


/best damn machines out there


The printers may be fine but their proprietary installation software and driver management are goddamn atrocious for home products. Sure, they're office / enterprise products are easy enough to install (generally) but if its primary connection method is a USB cord prepare yourself for bloatware or bust.
 
2014-05-23 09:41:49 AM  

YixilTesiphon: Neither was mechanization. That didn't lead to mass, permanent unemployment either, just different employment.


Mechanization didn't result in machines that were better than humans at responding to stimuli, decision making, parsing data, etc, did it?

To make a hypothetical, suppose we created a robot that perfectly mimicked a human.  Depending on the costs, of course, would companies need to hire humans anymore, for any position?  Or just a fleet of robots that worked 24/7 and never logged on to Fark?

Well, take that idea, and then apply it to individual tasks.  Suppose we created a robot that perfectly mimicked a human while driving.  Would we ever need to hire a person to drive?  Suppose we created a robot that perfectly mimicked a human responding to and looking up questions phrased in unusual ways.  Would we ever need to hire a person to do basic research?  Robots are simply going to replace humans is the vast majority of things that we currently do, the only exceptions that readily come to my mind are creative arts, sales, and perhaps high level decision making.
 
2014-05-23 09:42:01 AM  

bunner: "HP said the latest layoffs would come across all its business units and geographic locations, and would generate $1 billion in annual savings beyond the $3.5 to $4 billion projected from the previously announced cuts."

Save.  It will save billions that would otherwise be out moving in the economy.

Savings.  For whom?  What is this being saved for?  Are you HP guys eating OK?  I can send some food over.

PS, What do Carly Fiorina's wrinkly pissflaps taste like?


Carly got ousted years ago.  She's chairman of some charity organization somewhere now.
 
2014-05-23 09:46:19 AM  

syrynxx: They need to return to their core competency - selling DEC VAX-11 systems calculators.


www.hpmuseum.org

ftfy
 
2014-05-23 09:55:50 AM  

MattStafford: Mechanization didn't result in machines that were better than humans at responding to stimuli, decision making, parsing data, etc, did it?


No, but it did result in machines that were better than humans at doing repetitive, labor-intensive tasks, which is what employed most people at the time.
 
2014-05-23 09:56:54 AM  

Xexre: InterruptingQuirk: They can stop making computers any time, but they are not allowed to stop making printers/copiers etc.


/best damn machines out there

The printers may be fine but their proprietary installation software and driver management are goddamn atrocious for home products. Sure, they're office / enterprise products are easy enough to install (generally) but if its primary connection method is a USB cord prepare yourself for bloatware or bust.


I've been using the built in drivers that come with Windows for using HP machines for ~10 years. These days, the basic driver is included on the printer itself and installs when you plug it in. That's what is great about HP. They developed the protocol for printing and that basic communication layer is still nearly just as basic. Plug and play is real with them.
 
2014-05-23 10:04:41 AM  
Between 2008 until now, they have like 1 CEO, 30 VPs, 1 engineer, and 5 manufacturing grunts? (IT not included)
 
2014-05-23 10:05:26 AM  

InterruptingQuirk: They can stop making computers any time, but they are not allowed to stop making printers/copiers etc.


/best damn machines out there


cantellifserious.jpgmedia.tumblr.com
 
2014-05-23 10:06:11 AM  
Oh good, we can use the electricity from Bill Hewlett & David Packard rolling in their graves to power the electric chair in TN
 
2014-05-23 10:09:06 AM  

InterruptingQuirk: I've been using the built in drivers that come with Windows for using HP machines for ~10 years. These days, the basic driver is included on the printer itself and installs when you plug it in. That's what is great about HP. They developed the protocol for printing and that basic communication layer is still nearly just as basic. Plug and play is real with them.


Oh ... you are serious.  HP Printers are shiat.  Pure unadulterated shiat.  They are poorly manufactured, poorly supported, and their drivers are buggy and generally worthless.  And HP is losing market share in a market that is declining.  So I expect that trend to continue.

/it didn't help when Carley showed up one of the first things she did was to kill the group that wrote all the printer drivers
 
2014-05-23 10:10:33 AM  

bunner: Carly Fiorina's wrinkly pissflaps


Great band name
 
2014-05-23 10:21:02 AM  
MattStafford:
Well, take that idea, and then apply it to individual tasks.  Suppose we created a robot that perfectly mimicked a human while driving.  Would we ever need to hire a person to drive?  Suppose we created a robot that perfectly mimicked a human responding to and looking up questions phrased in unusual ways.  Would we ever need to hire a person to do basic research?  Robots are simply going to replace humans is the vast majority of things that we currently do, the only exceptions that readily come to my mind are creative arts, sales, and perhaps high level decision making.

Many, many fields require creativity aside from the arts.  Engineering, mathematics, etc - actually, just about everything, has elements of creativity.  Computers are excellent at performing repetitive tasks.  You can emulate problem solving ability by the use of artificial intelligence, but that is still only as useful as the people who (creatively) designed the code that allows for the artificial intelligence to function, and has very concrete constraints for how much "thinking" it can actually do.

I'm not saying robots are not useful, or that they will not improve, but at this point in time, they lack the ability to deal with situations that their designers could not predict.  Perhaps somebody AI will improve to the point of being able to produce novel thought.  I won't say what the future holds, but at the moment, this really isn't the case.  Unexpected problems is where humans (can) often excel - experience an unexpected situation, and a robot's behavior will be the result of its programming.  A human can look at it in a different light and come to a solution that is far more appropriate..  (Or not; humans are also known for making extremely terrible decisions.)
 
2014-05-23 10:34:06 AM  

Nightjars: Engineering, mathematics, etc - actually, just about everything, has elements of creativity.


To a certain extent, at rather high levels.  Would the vast majority of the population be able to do math or engineering that requires creativity?

Nightjars: You can emulate problem solving ability by the use of artificial intelligence, but that is still only as useful as the people who (creatively) designed the code that allows for the artificial intelligence to function, and has very concrete constraints for how much "thinking" it can actually do.


True, but after watching Watson play jeopardy a few years ago, the writing is on the wall.  Hell, look at the news summary bots on Reddit.  We're getting to the point where a lawyer could ask a question into lawbot 2000 and get a brief detailing all relevant case law and opinions in a few minutes.  No more need for paralegals etc.

Nightjars: they lack the ability to deal with situations that their designers could not predict


To a certain extent, but that doesn't mean that they still wouldn't be better than humans in the exact same scenario.  Driverless cars are a perfect example - they might not be able to predict every situation, but they are still better than humans in almost every situation.

Nightjars: (Or not; humans are also known for making extremely terrible decisions.)


My exact point - the robots won't be the best decision makers, but still better than the vast majority of people.
 
2014-05-23 10:34:32 AM  

gingerjet: InterruptingQuirk: I've been using the built in drivers that come with Windows for using HP machines for ~10 years. These days, the basic driver is included on the printer itself and installs when you plug it in. That's what is great about HP. They developed the protocol for printing and that basic communication layer is still nearly just as basic. Plug and play is real with them.

Oh ... you are serious.  HP Printers are shiat.  Pure unadulterated shiat.  They are poorly manufactured, poorly supported, and their drivers are buggy and generally worthless.  And HP is losing market share in a market that is declining.  So I expect that trend to continue.

/it didn't help when Carley showed up one of the first things she did was to kill the group that wrote all the printer drivers


Wow, you have some bad history with HP I take it. Anecdotes aside, it makes sense in my limited understanding of that company that they would dump their group that wrote the printer drivers when the MS bundled ones work great. It seems like you would be happy with them dumping the people that have made your life so miserable since you like to install all that bloat.
 
2014-05-23 10:44:51 AM  

gingerjet: InterruptingQuirk: I've been using the built in drivers that come with Windows for using HP machines for ~10 years. These days, the basic driver is included on the printer itself and installs when you plug it in. That's what is great about HP. They developed the protocol for printing and that basic communication layer is still nearly just as basic. Plug and play is real with them.

Oh ... you are serious.  HP Printers are shiat.  Pure unadulterated shiat.  They are poorly manufactured, poorly supported, and their drivers are buggy and generally worthless.  And HP is losing market share in a market that is declining.  So I expect that trend to continue.

/it didn't help when Carley showed up one of the first things she did was to kill the group that wrote all the printer drivers


What printers are you using? My OfficeJet 8500 is a tank, and for an ink jet it is very efficient (2000+ pages with a $40 black cartridge). The drivers have some bloat to them, but I've never run into any major bugs using them.
 
kab
2014-05-23 10:47:26 AM  

YixilTesiphon: Neither was mechanization. That didn't lead to mass, permanent unemployment either, just different employment.


Apples and oranges.

Mechanization still required an operator of said machine on a 1 to 1 basis in many cases.   That is not the case now.

The concept that folks need to work 40 per week, or that everyone should be gainfully employed at all to support themselves, is one that will simply not be sustained in the future.    It will be an interesting time to observe.
 
2014-05-23 10:51:03 AM  

YixilTesiphon: MattStafford: Mechanization didn't result in machines that were better than humans at responding to stimuli, decision making, parsing data, etc, did it?

No, but it did result in machines that were better than humans at doing repetitive, labor-intensive tasks, which is what employed most people at the time.


Reading is hard.
 
2014-05-23 10:51:41 AM  

GrailOfThunder: Carly got ousted years ago.  She's chairman of some charity organization somewhere now.


But the odor is still acrid.
 
2014-05-23 10:57:49 AM  
Now you people can understand why California said "hell no" to this heifer when she tried to buy the governor's office.
One of my friends/former classmates just got a position with them less than a year ago. I'm going to check with her and see if she's still working.
 
2014-05-23 11:09:02 AM  
HP used to make some good stuff, now not so much anymore. It always gets me how companies never learn, they start out make good stuff people buy it and when they are riding high they cut corners causing quality to drop and before you know it mass layoffs.
 
2014-05-23 11:16:33 AM  
kab:  The concept that folks need to work 40 per week, or that everyone should be gainfully employed at all to support themselves, is one that will simply not be sustained in the future.

I'm betting this isn't about the 40 hr/week wage expense.  That $1 billion per year is healthcare benefits that they are ditching.
 
2014-05-23 11:29:28 AM  

HighlanderRPI: bunner: Carly Fiorina's wrinkly pissflaps

Great band name


I was going to say thanks for killing my appetite until I can drink enough to forget I read those words together
 
2014-05-23 11:30:44 AM  
Their stock raised. Woohoo! That's much more important than the income and livelihoods of 16,000 families.
 
2014-05-23 11:36:56 AM  
The root of HP's problem is that they have 300K employees.  If you're a retailer, this is fine - you're just replicating the same store a bazillion times and scaling your logistics to match - but it isn't a viable way to run a technology firm.  Engineers and even entire engineering teams don't have any real autonomy because they can't, really - the communication distance from designers to anyone empowered to make decisions is so vast that it really only makes sense to communicate down the chain.

The layoffs don't help, except to the extent that ditching various businesses entirely might not be the worst idea in the world.  But for the most part, nobody with any options or talent really wants to go work at HP and the ones already there just want to get out.

The best thing HP could do is start spinning off its various lines of business into smaller, more tightly focused companies that can actually accomplish things.  This worked well with the Agilent spin off (which was arguably the real HP anyways), there is no reason it couldn't work again.
 
2014-05-23 11:53:47 AM  
The guys who run this company and the major share holders are job creators who deserve tax breaks to promote their job creating.  That's what I've been told.
 
2014-05-23 11:59:01 AM  

bunner: "HP said the latest layoffs would come across all its business units and geographic locations, and would generate $1 billion in annual savings beyond the $3.5 to $4 billion projected from the previously announced cuts."

Save.  It will save billions that would otherwise be out moving in the economy.

Savings.  For whom?  What is this being saved for?  Are you HP guys eating OK?  I can send some food over.

PS, What do Carly Fiorina's wrinkly pissflaps taste like?


What's that...like 15 ink cartridges.

/is ink worth its weight in silver?
 
2014-05-23 01:10:41 PM  

haterade: bunner: "HP said the latest layoffs would come across all its business units and geographic locations, and would generate $1 billion in annual savings beyond the $3.5 to $4 billion projected from the previously announced cuts."

Save.  It will save billions that would otherwise be out moving in the economy.

Savings.  For whom?  What is this being saved for?  Are you HP guys eating OK?  I can send some food over.

PS, What do Carly Fiorina's wrinkly pissflaps taste like?

What's that...like 15 ink cartridges.

/is ink worth its weight in silver?


I don't know about by weight, but by volume, personal inkjet printer ink is priced higher than many of the finest perfumes.

Large-format printers with multiple ink cartridges the size of VHS tapes do run a bit cheaper by volume.
 
2014-05-23 01:18:06 PM  

OptionC: The root of HP's problem is that they have 300K employees.  If you're a retailer, this is fine - you're just replicating the same store a bazillion times and scaling your logistics to match - but it isn't a viable way to run a technology firm.  Engineers and even entire engineering teams don't have any real autonomy because they can't, really - the communication distance from designers to anyone empowered to make decisions is so vast that it really only makes sense to communicate down the chain.

The layoffs don't help, except to the extent that ditching various businesses entirely might not be the worst idea in the world.  But for the most part, nobody with any options or talent really wants to go work at HP and the ones already there just want to get out.

The best thing HP could do is start spinning off its various lines of business into smaller, more tightly focused companies that can actually accomplish things.  This worked well with the Agilent spin off (which was arguably the real HP anyways), there is no reason it couldn't work again.


These jobs are merely being off-shored.

Bulgaria seems to be the new cheap place HP is moving work to.
 
2014-05-23 01:23:07 PM  
Color me shocked, HP is laying off more people.  Any bets on the same headline next year.  They are an internally broken company with no one left who can fix it.
Smegma Whitman - the Republican job creator - is only there to create more jobs in China and to pretend like she knows what to do.

Maybe she can start auctioning off parts of HP, that seems more in line with where she came from.
 
2014-05-23 02:17:16 PM  
Maybe they should pay Meg a capitalistic salary, CEO is a 5 figure job, it's not engineering.
 
2014-05-23 02:30:51 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: gingerjet: InterruptingQuirk: I've been using the built in drivers that come with Windows for using HP machines for ~10 years. These days, the basic driver is included on the printer itself and installs when you plug it in. That's what is great about HP. They developed the protocol for printing and that basic communication layer is still nearly just as basic. Plug and play is real with them.

Oh ... you are serious.  HP Printers are shiat.  Pure unadulterated shiat.  They are poorly manufactured, poorly supported, and their drivers are buggy and generally worthless.  And HP is losing market share in a market that is declining.  So I expect that trend to continue.

/it didn't help when Carley showed up one of the first things she did was to kill the group that wrote all the printer drivers

Wow, you have some bad history with HP I take it. Anecdotes aside, it makes sense in my limited understanding of that company that they would dump their group that wrote the printer drivers when the MS bundled ones work great. It seems like you would be happy with them dumping the people that have made your life so miserable since you like to install all that bloat.


Who do you guys think wrote the drivers that Microsoft provides? Hint: it wasn't Microsoft.
 
2014-05-23 03:35:29 PM  

bunner: "HP said the latest layoffs would come across all its business units and geographic locations, and would generate $1 billion in annual savings beyond the $3.5 to $4 billion projected from the previously announced cuts."

Save.  It will save billions that would otherwise be out moving in the economy.

Savings.  For whom?  What is this being saved for?  Are you HP guys eating OK?  I can send some food over.

PS, What do Carly Fiorina's wrinkly pissflaps taste like?



that sweet cash is going to stockholders and HP brass (many overseas tax shelters) bank accounts proving that in 'murica, only those folks matter.

and, proof that unemployment is good for 'murican companies.   bad for the Nation and the bottom 95%, unfortunately.
 
2014-05-23 03:36:50 PM  

clancifer: Yea! Executive bonuses are going to be incredible!



ain't Freedom great!!   makes me want to go overseas and die for it!
 
2014-05-23 03:38:34 PM  
Horrible Printers is still in business?
 
2014-05-23 03:39:12 PM  

Aquapope: The guys who run this company and the major share holders are job creators who deserve tax breaks to promote their job creating.  That's what I've been told.



you've been told a lie.  hard to imagine that in 'murica.

the truth is that middle class (largest) demand creates jobs.   not rich Turds.
 
2014-05-23 03:40:29 PM  
HP isn't dead yet.   it just smells funny.
 
2014-05-23 03:42:37 PM  

sendtodave: bunner: "HP said the latest layoffs would come across all its business units and geographic locations, and would generate $1 billion in annual savings beyond the $3.5 to $4 billion projected from the previously announced cuts."

Save.  It will save billions that would otherwise be out moving in the economy.

Savings.  For whom?  What is this being saved for?  Are you HP guys eating OK?  I can send some food over.

PS, What do Carly Fiorina's wrinkly pissflaps taste like?

Imagine how much they cold save if they laid off everyone.



they will in a heart beat if it'll keep those starving stockholders happy.  those poor folks wouldn't want to go out and work for a living.  best to live off someone else's work.  its more American.
 
2014-05-23 03:43:59 PM  
CEO Meg Whitman said in a conference call with analysts. "I think everyone understands the turnarounddeath spiral we're in."
 
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