If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Atlantic)   The case for reparations: "In America there is a strange and powerful belief that if you stab a black person 10 times, the bleeding stops and the healing begins the moment the assailant drops the knife"   (theatlantic.com) divider line 951
    More: Interesting, Massachusetts General Court, American racism, Valley Forge, humans, servitude, good behaviour, John Conyers, Manhattan Institute  
•       •       •

11185 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 May 2014 at 10:58 PM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



951 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-05-25 10:03:46 AM

stlbluez: "I KNOW SLAVERY because "  narrative


I call bullshiat! I'm making no such assertion. Only that my understanding springs from something I know about in  one line of my family.They came in 1634. I have another relative who was on the Mayflower, but THAT isn't the point. I also have Mexican andecedents,ScotchIrish Canadian, Dutch, belgian and others.My point is that the one who came to Sudbury Mass in 1634 had to work for 12 years to earn his freedom and the right to own land, and that it has remained part of the family lore ever since, so a reasonable person could imagine that a Black American might have so much of a burden of the Past on their Present, that it might color their perspective in ways that obstruct their progress in this country. So some meaningful gesture could be made by AMERICA to assuage some of their deep sense of legitimate grievance.
 
2014-05-25 10:04:51 AM

DrD'isInfotainment: Ally'all racist NeoConfederates who troll this article  are the most compelling argument for why Black folks in America do indeed have an undressed grievance , and just one of many reasons from our dark past for why Black Americans do in fact need some large, meaningful gesture of penance from their country. Reparations, in the form of a large trust for education to those motivated to get an education, or a large Enterprise Fund,(put up by the Banksters to atone for past  unpunished crimes), that would target all of those eligible for compensation. THAT would be Blacks who could demonstrate a liniage of discrimated upon antecedents, it could also include Native Americans, and Spanish Americans who can demonstrate a similar discrimination in the past from the Mexican/American War to  the present day exploitation by unscrupulous American Capitalists. And yes, to a certain extent, other ethnic groups,like Jews, Italians, Irish ,Lithuanians,Chinese, and others  who can credibly demonstrate some deep discrimination in their past. My family came to Mass from England in 1634 as indentured servants, and had to work for 12 years to earn their freedom. My family still understands the implications of this situation 350 years ago. My father still bristles at the Entitled attitude of the Bush Family.

We have been ardent defenders of the universal Rights of Man for all that time. This is just a speck of the grievance that American Blacks must feel. So fark y'all who treat this appeal with typical racist reaction.


...you rail against racists, then cite race as a defense for your assertion.

This is the cornerstone failure in modern politics and largely why we can't get anything done.

The root of most of the problems we're seeing are inequity driven, not race driven.  The existence of racism, in America today, is the result of this inequity, not the cause.  To deal with it, we can't treat the symptom, we have to attack the cause.  If poor white men continue to grow up uneducated due to losing the genetic lottery, they'll tend to be more racist.  The only way out is world class (and I'm not talking top 5 internationally, I'm talking the absolute best) education.  But education costs money, especially if you want to change this dramatically in 1 generation.  To do that we'll need funding.

I'd suggest we pull really old trick from the republican playbook:

"a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate. "

Turn the genetic lottery off and use the proceeds to educate our masses.  Racial inequity should fall away within a generation.

/except for some white men
//turns out, genetically, they have the highest variability in IQ of any subgroup of humans
 
2014-05-25 10:06:20 AM

DrD'isInfotainment: Dr.Mxyzptlk.: I feel so guilty, let me get a check for Jay Z.

[img.fark.net image 196x257]

Son,it's about time you learn about white privilege.
[img.fark.net image 225x225]

I can assure that both of those images hold folks who were not disenfranchised by capitalist Black men, but rather by unscrupulous White capitalists , as in Mine Owners in the first case and most likely white bankers  in the second case,who foreclosed on helpless farmers who could have and would have  paid off their indebtedness once the Depression and Dust Bowl were behind them..But you just keep casting it in terms that make Black folks the source of your problems.


how many of those white families had great/grandparents who moved up from the south since they were unable to find jobs due to all the free slave labor jobs the Planter class had tied up.   Slavery not only disenfranchised the future free black person but also the poor person of every color in the South.
 
2014-05-25 10:10:21 AM
The good news is, it's only effete, hapless white nerds who bleat about "privilege" they learned in some ludicrous class somewhere on some loser's blog.  I.E. this is all sensationalist nonsense that exists in small fits of rage and self hate on the internet.
 
2014-05-25 10:14:00 AM

Animatronik: Freudian_slipknot: Per the map in the article, I live in one of the least segregated neighborhoods in Chicago.  It's clear from walking my streets that I live surrounded by people of all races.  There's a large Asian community (mostly Vietnamese), a solid Hispanic presence and just as many black people as white.

If you look at the crime statistics for my area, they're actually BETTER than many of the mostly-white neighborhoods surrounding mine.

And yet, ask the average young white person in Chicago about my neighborhood and most will tell you that they'd never set foot in my neighborhood.  It's SCARY.  They're afraid of being shot at by gang bangers.

Anyone who says racism is dead is purely full of shiat.  It's alive and doing quite well, and is in no way declining.  It's only getting better at hiding itself.  No one uses racial slurs in public, but that doesn't mean they're not just as racist as our grandparents were.

I wouldn't set foot in your neighborhood if I think it puts me at greater risk of being shot. That doesn't make me racist at all. Only an idiot would even suggest such a thing. If your neighborhood is safer, then it has a bad reputation that will eventually shift, and you should think about how you can make that happen faster.

When people throw out common sense ideas as racist, when they look around and blame everyone but themselves and their communities for what's happening , when no one takes personal responsibility for anything .. commentary like what's in this thread is what you get. If you want to define yourself and your view of the world entirely by racism or in some cases perceived racism, that' your business, but I'm not buying into that lifestyle. Go send John Conyers a donation.


Again, our crime statistics show we are SAFER than the surrounding all white areas.

Morons like YOU just see black people and think "oh noes! The gangs!"

Learn to read.
 
2014-05-25 10:20:05 AM
"In America there is a strange and powerful belief that if you stab a black person 10 times, the bleeding stops and the healing begins the moment the assailant drops the knife"

I have not yet rtfa but plan to, if only to confirm the insanity of the debate.  The problem I have with the idea of reparations are the questions of who would you pay and who would you take the money from?  None of the folks who were subject to slavery are alive anymore. Very few of the folks who were present during the rampant discrimination of the old South are alive anymore.  Assuming we managed to put together a list of those who are, then who would we take the money from to pay them? It would be unjust to take the money from people that had no part in the crime.  Therefore you can't just take it randomly from the taxpayers.  It would have to come from specific individuals who participated in the crimes and go to their specific victims.  We would need to put together a list of folks that were around in say 1960 or earlier, were old enough to be responsible for their actions (over 18) at the time and be able to establish with some level of certainty that each individual was actually responsible for the harm done to an individual black person who is still alive.  It just strikes me as insanely impractical to create a reparations program that would be just.
 
2014-05-25 10:26:51 AM

ox45tallboy: Rincewind53: And "sundown towns", which were towns where blacks were not allowed on the streets after dark, existed until the 1980s. I was born less than five years after the last sundown down went away.

The sign was still there at the city limits of Cullman, AL in 1998. Nineteen - F*cking - Ninety - Eight. I saw it with my own eyes.

If I was half the man I am now I would have taken it down myself, but I didn't live there and had no idea what I might have started.

Last year, two counties away, there was a "religious revival" ending with a "Christian Cross Burning."

But at least the sign is gone now, so I guess that's something.


I grew up less than 2 hours from Cullman in Gadsden, AL.  If you think Cullman's bad, you should pay a visit to Hokes Bluff, which is on the eastern border of Gadsden.

Population in 2012: 4,343 (65% urban, 35% rural). Population change since 2000: +4.7%

White alone - 4,217 (98.4%)
Two or more races - 20 (0.5%)
Asian alone - 18 (0.4%)
Black alone - 15 (0.3%)
Hispanic - 10 (0.2%)
American Indian alone - 6 (0.1%)

http://www.city-data.com/city/Hokes-Bluff-Alabama.html

This place is pretty much on the front doorstep of my childhood home.  The first time I was ever pulled over for DWB (Driving While Black) was here.  The whole Sand Mountain area of NE Alabama was littered with "sundown" towns.  The area is flowing with Hispanics because of the poultry plants now, but my high school football team and band often had police escorts out of town when we had to play games there.
 
2014-05-25 10:29:41 AM

Waldo Pepper: DrD'isInfotainment: Dr.Mxyzptlk.: I feel so guilty, let me get a check for Jay Z.

[img.fark.net image 196x257]

Son,it's about time you learn about white privilege.
[img.fark.net image 225x225]

I can assure that both of those images hold folks who were not disenfranchised by capitalist Black men, but rather by unscrupulous White capitalists , as in Mine Owners in the first case and most likely white bankers  in the second case,who foreclosed on helpless farmers who could have and would have  paid off their indebtedness once the Depression and Dust Bowl were behind them..But you just keep casting it in terms that make Black folks the source of your problems.

how many of those white families had great/grandparents who moved up from the south since they were unable to find jobs due to all the free slave labor jobs the Planter class had tied up.   Slavery not only disenfranchised the future free black person but also the poor person of every color in the South.


Then maybe they could be benefit from such a fund also.Although your  supposition has a lot of holes in it, such as a poor white sharecropper who was disenfranchised by "freed"blacks could actually moved North, or more probably West, and done much better for themselves than what the Southern (or Northern,for that matter)Planter or Factory owners had on offer. The country was built, not just by Black Slaves, but by many different disenfranchised people who sought, and sometime found, a better life somewhere else, everyone except, of course, the Black Man, who still  faces much of the same racist bullshiat no matter where he/she goes.
 
2014-05-25 10:31:55 AM

Flying Lasagna Monster: Barack Obama would pay reparations to himself?


Only his black half. The white half got him his presidency.
 
2014-05-25 10:35:49 AM

violentsalvation: a program of job training and public works that takes racial justice as its mission but includes the poor of all races.

plus ending the drug war and completely reworking the criminal justice system can be called reparations than I'm all for it. Of course I don't expect that wealth gap to instantly close either, it will take generations to undo. Pragmatism.


I think you are on to something here...
 
2014-05-25 10:36:28 AM
I think it's racist to suggest that non-black people today should be forced to pay black people for slavery. So.. someone else 200 years ago who was white did something wrong, and because I'm white I have to pay for what they did. That is racist.
 
2014-05-25 10:36:32 AM
There's a lot of white guilt in this thread.
 
2014-05-25 10:37:39 AM

Freudian_slipknot: It's only getting better at hiding itself.  No one uses racial slurs in public, but that doesn't mean they're not just as racist as our grandparents were.


We, not they.  Pretty much everyone is racist to some extent, and those that they never had a racist thought in their lives are almost certainly full of shiat.  We are tribal animals with the inherent instinct to demonize the "other."
 
2014-05-25 10:38:18 AM
This crap again? Jeebus...
 
2014-05-25 10:39:01 AM

Ima4nic8or: The problem I have with the idea of reparations are the questions of who would you pay and who would you take the money from?


The thrust of the article is to pass a bill, that's already written, to examine exactly who has been damaged and to what degree. So the insanity of the article is that you really already agree with it

None of the folks who were subject to slavery are alive anymore.

And the article mainly focuses on how America stole wealth from black people or specifically denied them opportunities to create wealth long after slavery.

This is one of those articles you just have to read because your snap decisions about it are either entirely wrong or were specifically dealt with in the article.
 
2014-05-25 10:40:49 AM

DrD'isInfotainment: Waldo Pepper: DrD'isInfotainment: Dr.Mxyzptlk.: I feel so guilty, let me get a check for Jay Z.

[img.fark.net image 196x257]

Son,it's about time you learn about white privilege.
[img.fark.net image 225x225]

I can assure that both of those images hold folks who were not disenfranchised by capitalist Black men, but rather by unscrupulous White capitalists , as in Mine Owners in the first case and most likely white bankers  in the second case,who foreclosed on helpless farmers who could have and would have  paid off their indebtedness once the Depression and Dust Bowl were behind them..But you just keep casting it in terms that make Black folks the source of your problems.

how many of those white families had great/grandparents who moved up from the south since they were unable to find jobs due to all the free slave labor jobs the Planter class had tied up.   Slavery not only disenfranchised the future free black person but also the poor person of every color in the South.

Then maybe they could be benefit from such a fund also.Although your  supposition has a lot of holes in it, such as a poor white sharecropper who was disenfranchised by "freed"blacks could actually moved North, or more probably West, and done much better for themselves than what the Southern (or Northern,for that matter)Planter or Factory owners had on offer. The country was built, not just by Black Slaves, but by many different disenfranchised people who sought, and sometime found, a better life somewhere else, everyone except, of course, the Black Man, who still  faces much of the same racist bullshiat no matter where he/she goes.


you are correct that they could have moved but this is where those in power/control worked their charms. they needed the poor white man for their votes and their base. Create fear and load up the poor uneducated white person's mind with enough misinformation to keep them right where they are under your control so you can keep your voting base big enough to keep yourself in power.
 
2014-05-25 10:40:59 AM

Animatronik: We don't need more money going to reparations, we need massive spending cuts


But don't cut the Pentagon, the Scary Mooselimbs are coming to rape your wives and daughters!

and a Congress that wants to pass laws to create incentives for marriage

Except for Feelthy Queers.

and hard work.

And abolish the minimum wage and gut the National Labor Relations Board.  We can't have the Uppity Peasants thinking they can actually get paid for sweeping floors and flipping burgers.
 
2014-05-25 10:41:09 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: There's a lot of white guilt in this thread.


Nah, just from you.
 
2014-05-25 10:42:12 AM
I suppose we also owe reparations to the countless countries around the world we have exploited to get ourselves where we are today.  After that's done, there won't be anything left for minorities in America since we'll already be broker than somalia.
 
2014-05-25 10:45:27 AM

jaybeezey: Flying Lasagna Monster: Barack Obama would pay reparations to himself?

Only his black half. The white half got him his presidency.


Whatever.
 
2014-05-25 10:49:26 AM

lilplatinum: Freudian_slipknot: It's only getting better at hiding itself.  No one uses racial slurs in public, but that doesn't mean they're not just as racist as our grandparents were.

We, not they.  Pretty much everyone is racist to some extent, and those that they never had a racist thought in their lives are almost certainly full of shiat.  We are tribal animals with the inherent instinct to demonize the "other."


I think a lot of what is called racism is more culturism. You take a white person from the deep small town south and throw him/her in a group of white people from New Jersey and see how comfortable he/she is around them.  take a black person born and raised in an upper middle class in Maine and see how comfortable they are hanging with black folks in the poor deep south of mississippi.

A lot of times it isn't a race issue as much as it is a culture issue.
 
2014-05-25 10:51:46 AM

Waldo Pepper: I would have to go with the former [the "indignity" of the Great Society] but only due to the odds of choosing someone under the age of 75 to be greater than someone over 75.


You know, the ability of my parents and their parents to secure housing loans on favorable terms, in "nice neighborhoods" with functioning, well-funded schools, actually affects my life. I didn't just spring fully formed from the head of Zeus. Intergenerational wealth transfer is actually a thing, and the whole point of TFA is that public and private policies on a whole host of fronts have deliberately worked to structurally deny black people access to wealth, and hence to build a wealthy and prosperous nation on the back of the wealth extracted from them. Not just slaves: people alive today.

And if those policies directly hit a particular black person, that does not somehow mean that that person's children now live in a perfectly equal environment. The slate does not get wiped clean every twenty years. Your commitment to the bootstraps mythology is naive and childish.

Waldo Pepper: It is one thing to say you are our slave it is quite another to say you are free and then not treat a man as equal and free.


Indeed. It is in fact a third thing to subject a man to a decades-long reign of state-sponsored terrorism, which is a better description of the Jim Crow regime.

A useful comparison (and one which a few in this thread have tried to make) is to immigrant populations in the US. Most of the immigrant waves in the US' history were "not treated as equal and free", as you say, for a generation or two until the common perception had deigned them membership in the white ruling tribe.[1] And the way we've treated immigrants is shameful. But I'm not aware of any state-sponsored pattern of terrorism against the Irish/Italian/Polish ghettoes in the cities. It really does say something about America that there exist whole cities in the Rust Belt which were populated by Polish communities which moved there en masse from Chicago when heavy manufacturing sites opened up. It would have been literally impossible for blacks to do likewise, even though they were "there first".

[1] (Asians are a weird case I'll not consider here.)
 
2014-05-25 10:52:41 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-05-25 10:52:43 AM
Holy shiat there's some blatant racism in this thread.  I hope you're all proud of yourselves.
 
2014-05-25 10:52:57 AM
Drinking game for this thread:

* Read each post.  For extra inebriation, click on "show posts from ignored users."

* Take a drink for every post that makes it abundantly clear the poster DNRTFA.
 
2014-05-25 10:54:05 AM

Waldo Pepper: I think a lot of what is called racism is more culturism. You take a white person from the deep small town south and throw him/her in a group of white people from New Jersey and see how comfortable he/she is around them.


To be fair, taking pretty much anyone on earth and throwing them in with a bunch of orange people with waxed eyebrows would be quit a shock.
 
2014-05-25 10:54:57 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Mid_mo_mad_man: There's a lot of white guilt in this thread.

Nah, just from you.


I feel no guilt. I probably should thou. My ancestors did benefit from slavery. They were part of the slave owning minority in Missouri.
 
2014-05-25 10:55:08 AM
I'm all for reparations...under one condition.
All affirmative action; all claims of racial discrimination are OVER!
Parties would have to prove actual damages...not just "Feel Offended".

My big question is, who would pay for it?
I'm white, but all my ancestors came to the US about 40 years after slavery was declared illegal.
Would Obama have to pay for his own reparation check?
Since his father's family were never slaves in America, would he be entitled to anything?
 
2014-05-25 10:55:21 AM

lilplatinum: Freudian_slipknot: It's only getting better at hiding itself.  No one uses racial slurs in public, but that doesn't mean they're not just as racist as our grandparents were.

We, not they.  Pretty much everyone is racist to some extent, and those that they never had a racist thought in their lives are almost certainly full of shiat.  We are tribal animals with the inherent instinct to demonize the "other."


That's fair enough. God knows I'm not an innocent. I'm just getting really tired of hearing yuppies gasping in shock that I not only live where I do, but actually love it and chose it.

It's a fabulous area with incredible history and architecture, and people are really engaged with the community. But its not all yoga studios and pet boutiques and artisan froyo so people lock their doors and hug their purses as they roll through.
 
2014-05-25 10:56:03 AM

vernonFL: OgreMagi: Fark your white guilt. I did nothing wrong and I'll be damned if I am forced to pay penance for something I did not do.

You, your parents, your grandparents, got better treatment and benefited from racism.

You as a person and your friends and family are where they are today in part because of institutional racism.

You did nothing wrong, but you were born into and grew up in and now live in a system that is skewed in your favor.


We can't have a rational discussion about these things without white people threatening to burn everything to the ground. It's a lost cause, like the global warming debate and the income inequality debate. Otherwise decent, rational whites lose their shiat when these topics come up. I have zero faith in things getting better for black people in America in this century. One day, white America won't hold the absolute power it does now - that's the only hope. So farking glad I don't have kids growing up in this poisonous atmosphere.
 
2014-05-25 10:59:51 AM

Zagloba: Waldo Pepper: I would have to go with the former [the "indignity" of the Great Society] but only due to the odds of choosing someone under the age of 75 to be greater than someone over 75.

You know, the ability of my parents and their parents to secure housing loans on favorable terms, in "nice neighborhoods" with functioning, well-funded schools, actually affects my life. I didn't just spring fully formed from the head of Zeus. Intergenerational wealth transfer is actually a thing, and the whole point of TFA is that public and private policies on a whole host of fronts have deliberately worked to structurally deny black people access to wealth, and hence to build a wealthy and prosperous nation on the back of the wealth extracted from them. Not just slaves: people alive today.

And if those policies directly hit a particular black person, that does not somehow mean that that person's children now live in a perfectly equal environment. The slate does not get wiped clean every twenty years. Your commitment to the bootstraps mythology is naive and childish.

Waldo Pepper: It is one thing to say you are our slave it is quite another to say you are free and then not treat a man as equal and free.

Indeed. It is in fact a third thing to subject a man to a decades-long reign of state-sponsored terrorism, which is a better description of the Jim Crow regime.

A useful comparison (and one which a few in this thread have tried to make) is to immigrant populations in the US. Most of the immigrant waves in the US' history were "not treated as equal and free", as you say, for a generation or two until the common perception had deigned them membership in the white ruling tribe.[1] And the way we've treated immigrants is shameful. But I'm not aware of any state-sponsored pattern of terrorism against the Irish/Italian/Polish ghettoes in the cities. It really does say something about America that there exist whole cities in the Rust Belt which were populated by Polish communities ...


You are correct about the homeownership. I didn't think of it in those terms.  I just looked at the dates and thought how to some of us 1965 doesn't seem that long ago but in reality next year 2065 will be as far away in the future as 1965 is in the past.
 
2014-05-25 11:01:00 AM

Waldo Pepper: Create fear and load up the poor uneducated white person's mind with enough misinformation to keep them right where they are under your control so you can keep your voting base big enough to keep yourself in power.


Damn, THAT sounds just like today's Politics, maybe to some extent both Parties, but definitely Today's GOP!

Ironically, if their critical demographic of poorly inform fearful White Voters actually knew what the GOP is doing to them Thy'd be the ones building the farking guillotines, personally. It's as if King Louis exorted all the poor French to attack Belgians and Dutch as the source of all their problems...and they bought  his Bullshiat...which they most certainly didn't.
 
2014-05-25 11:04:09 AM

Freudian_slipknot: lilplatinum: Freudian_slipknot: It's only getting better at hiding itself.  No one uses racial slurs in public, but that doesn't mean they're not just as racist as our grandparents were.

We, not they.  Pretty much everyone is racist to some extent, and those that they never had a racist thought in their lives are almost certainly full of shiat.  We are tribal animals with the inherent instinct to demonize the "other."

That's fair enough. God knows I'm not an innocent. I'm just getting really tired of hearing yuppies gasping in shock that I not only live where I do, but actually love it and chose it.

It's a fabulous area with incredible history and architecture, and people are really engaged with the community. But its not all yoga studios and pet boutiques and artisan froyo so people lock their doors and hug their purses as they roll through.


I lived in a neighborhood like that and it had its problems but what a lot of "yuppies"  don't understand is sure we might live around some criminal element but we got nothing to steal and your "yuppie" neighborhoods are where all the good stuff is to take. heck it is best to keep life calm and quiet around where you live to keep the police away.
 
2014-05-25 11:04:37 AM

DrD'isInfotainment: stlbluez: "I KNOW SLAVERY because "  narrative

I call bullshiat! I'm making no such assertion. Only that my understanding springs from something I know about in  one line of my family.They came in 1634. I have another relative who was on the Mayflower, but THAT isn't the point. I also have Mexican andecedents,ScotchIrish Canadian, Dutch, belgian and others.My point is that the one who came to Sudbury Mass in 1634 had to work for 12 years to earn his freedom and the right to own land, and that it has remained part of the family lore ever since, so a reasonable person could imagine that a Black American might have so much of a burden of the Past on their Present, that it might color their perspective in ways that obstruct their progress in this country. So some meaningful gesture could be made by AMERICA to assuage some of their deep sense of legitimate grievance.


This is what I don't get. America constantly makes grand gestures; the countries history with slavery isn't a secret.
Assist the poor because the poor need assistance, not because disproportionatly it'll help blacks.
Young blacks have a self imposed image problem the same as poor urban whites.
The solutions are varied and begin with education and a different focus on what's "cool" for young urban adults. A focus on race only clouds the issue and hampers solutions.
 
2014-05-25 11:07:47 AM

Trail of Dead: vernonFL: OgreMagi: Fark your white guilt. I did nothing wrong and I'll be damned if I am forced to pay penance for something I did not do.

You, your parents, your grandparents, got better treatment and benefited from racism.

You as a person and your friends and family are where they are today in part because of institutional racism.

You did nothing wrong, but you were born into and grew up in and now live in a system that is skewed in your favor.

We can't have a rational discussion about these things without white people threatening to burn everything to the ground. It's a lost cause, like the global warming debate and the income inequality debate. Otherwise decent, rational whites lose their shiat when these topics come up. I have zero faith in things getting better for black people in America in this century. One day, white America won't hold the absolute power it does now - that's the only hope. So farking glad I don't have kids growing up in this poisonous atmosphere.


I think the victim complex is why things aren't getting better for black people. They feel like they can't succeed because they are opressed and it turns into a self fulfilling prophecy because they don't try. The key to getting a good job is getting into a good college, and black people have it pretty easy when it comes to getting accepted into a good college. The system is actually stacked in their favor right now. Granted it's harder to get a good GPA in high school with poverty and a broken home life. But really, it's high school, it's not that hard.
 
2014-05-25 11:08:01 AM

Waldo Pepper: You are correct about the homeownership. I didn't think of it in those terms. I just looked at the dates and thought how to some of us 1965 doesn't seem that long ago but in reality next year 2065 will be as far away in the future as 1965 is in the past.


Yeah. (Doesn't help that if you're anywhere near as young as me, you never learned any US history after the 60s in school, so "historically disadvantaged" brings to mind images of the 1860s or 1930s, not the 1980s.)
 
2014-05-25 11:09:05 AM

DrD'isInfotainment: Waldo Pepper: Create fear and load up the poor uneducated white person's mind with enough misinformation to keep them right where they are under your control so you can keep your voting base big enough to keep yourself in power.

Damn, THAT sounds just like today's Politics, maybe to some extent both Parties, but definitely Today's GOP!

Ironically, if their critical demographic of poorly inform fearful White Voters actually knew what the GOP is doing to them Thy'd be the ones building the farking guillotines, personally. It's as if King Louis exorted all the poor French to attack Belgians and Dutch as the source of all their problems...and they bought  his Bullshiat...which they most certainly didn't.


now now don't go blaming the GOP.  The area i'm in still votes mainly Democratic (maybe not for president) and i'm sure those running on the left aren't 100% bleeding hearts.  the local races are still geared towards keeping those old families in power. heck just this year we had a vote on selling beer/wine countywide and of course it lost.  it's really odd some towns in the county can sell and others can't. i'm in one where you can buy wine but you can't buy beer.  Actually had a state run ABC store but it closed due to lack of business. it ain't because the folks ain't drinking they just don't want anyone to see them buy it.
 
2014-05-25 11:09:47 AM

Waldo Pepper: I lived in a neighborhood like that and it had its problems but what a lot of "yuppies"  don't understand is sure we might live around some criminal element but we got nothing to steal and your "yuppie" neighborhoods are where all the good stuff is to take. heck it is best to keep life calm and quiet around where you live to keep the police away.


I always marvel when my redneck relatives ask how I can live somewhere as dangerous as Brooklyn, when statistically their little shiatholes have more crime per capita.
 
2014-05-25 11:12:33 AM
FREE TOOKIE!
 
2014-05-25 11:12:37 AM
I'll admit that I didn't bother reading the article, but I think I can sum it up based on the Fark headline, and this is my opinion on it.

The article writer is clearly an idiot. If he had been paying attention at all, he'd know that the Miami Heat relies on an aggressive defense that begins upcourt, choking the lanes with a zone defense to block the inbound pass outside the three-point line, sometimes before the ball has even made it to half-court. Lebron will take the top man most of the time, looking to make a steal or just keep the ball out of the hands of Paul George. WIth fast rotation into a double-team, Pacers can't rely on that pick-and-roll that they used so effectively in the second half of the series against Atlanta. They need to anticipate the second man coverage and rotate their guards to open up passing lanes or penetrate on the dribble. It's risky to run the lane on Bosh, but he has a higher rate of fouling big men, which Indiana can exploit if they're patient.
 
2014-05-25 11:12:55 AM
Bookmarked the article a couple of days ago and sat down and read it this morning. Thank you submitter. And thank you whomever decided to greenlight it after all.
 
2014-05-25 11:17:15 AM

SmackLT: I'll admit that I didn't bother reading the article, but I think I can sum it up based on the Fark headline, and this is my opinion on it.

The article writer is clearly an idiot. If he had been paying attention at all, he'd know that the Miami Heat relies on an aggressive defense that begins upcourt, choking the lanes with a zone defense to block the inbound pass outside the three-point line, sometimes before the ball has even made it to half-court. Lebron will take the top man most of the time, looking to make a steal or just keep the ball out of the hands of Paul George. WIth fast rotation into a double-team, Pacers can't rely on that pick-and-roll that they used so effectively in the second half of the series against Atlanta. They need to anticipate the second man coverage and rotate their guards to open up passing lanes or penetrate on the dribble. It's risky to run the lane on Bosh, but he has a higher rate of fouling big men, which Indiana can exploit if they're patient.


That's actually much closer than many people came to understanding TFA without reading it.
 
2014-05-25 11:17:34 AM
How to end this reparations circle jerk once and for all and make both sides happy:


Pay every living ex-slave $1,000,000,000,000.   Done.
 
2014-05-25 11:18:04 AM

lilplatinum: Waldo Pepper: I lived in a neighborhood like that and it had its problems but what a lot of "yuppies"  don't understand is sure we might live around some criminal element but we got nothing to steal and your "yuppie" neighborhoods are where all the good stuff is to take. heck it is best to keep life calm and quiet around where you live to keep the police away.

I always marvel when my redneck relatives ask how I can live somewhere as dangerous as Brooklyn, when statistically their little shiatholes have more crime per capita.


I will say that small towns aren't quite the same situation. The nicer neighborhoods don't get the crime as the police have an easier time spotting those who don't belong in the area since they tend to know everyone. Drugs are bad in small poor towns. There ain't jack squat to do and having to drive 60 miles to go bowling or to a movie kind of sucks. So the youth mainly poor youth get caught up in meth (billboards about the dangers of meth run year round in this area. so does billboards about the illegal ivory trade for some reason).
 
2014-05-25 11:18:47 AM

CanisNoir: DrD'isInfotainment: stlbluez: "I KNOW SLAVERY because "  narrative

I call bullshiat! I'm making no such assertion. Only that my understanding springs from something I know about in  one line of my family.They came in 1634. I have another relative who was on the Mayflower, but THAT isn't the point. I also have Mexican andecedents,ScotchIrish Canadian, Dutch, belgian and others.My point is that the one who came to Sudbury Mass in 1634 had to work for 12 years to earn his freedom and the right to own land, and that it has remained part of the family lore ever since, so a reasonable person could imagine that a Black American might have so much of a burden of the Past on their Present, that it might color their perspective in ways that obstruct their progress in this country. So some meaningful gesture could be made by AMERICA to assuage some of their deep sense of legitimate grievance.

This is what I don't get. America constantly makes grand gestures; the countries history with slavery isn't a secret.
Assist the poor because the poor need assistance, not because disproportionatly it'll help blacks.
Young blacks have a self imposed image problem the same as poor urban whites.
The solutions are varied and begin with education and a different focus on what's "cool" for young urban adults. A focus on race only clouds the issue and hampers solutions.


Fair enough, but If I were a Black man or a Native Indian, I'd still have a phantom looming over my experience in this country. And I'm not sure it would all be resolved to an acceptable extent by your omnibus solution, but maybe it would be comprehensive enough for that to happen, in which case, good!
 
2014-05-25 11:19:34 AM
I heard an interview with Coates Friday about this article.  And certainly, the "let's take a look at the whole broad spectrum of exploitation/oppression of African Americans" approach is a new spin, but here's some things that complicate it, for me at least:

1) Exploitation/Oppression is not limited to African-Americans - "the system" has also benefited from playing dirty tricks on women, jews, and a variety of other groups.
2) More importantly, the *real* exploitation/oppression comes in the form of class-based shenanigans - racism is a red herring.
3) Consequently, if we follow Coates's line of thinking, we'd need to "make reparations" (in whatever form that may be) to pretty much everyone in this country who doesn't belong to a currently wealthy family that has belonged to such a family since... oh, I don't know, we'd probably say 100 years back, at least.
4) How do Federal Anti-Poverty Spending, Affirmative Action, the economic damage/death toll of the Civil War, etc. get factored into Coates proposed study?  Logically, it seems that we should deduct the value (however it is determined) of these from the "damages" (however those are determined).
5) I seem to recall reading some study or another about the favorable success rates of recent African immigrants vs. African Americans in matters of economics/education.  That item, at the very least, should make us ask to what extent the barriers our system imposes on black Americans are related strictly to race.
 
2014-05-25 11:19:55 AM

Descartes: How to end this reparations circle jerk once and for all and make both sides happy:


Pay every living ex-slave $1,000,000,000,000.   Done.


What are the odds that Marion Barry will figure out a way to claim he is a living ex-slave and gets a check.
 
2014-05-25 11:23:07 AM

Waldo Pepper: lilplatinum: Waldo Pepper: I lived in a neighborhood like that and it had its problems but what a lot of "yuppies"  don't understand is sure we might live around some criminal element but we got nothing to steal and your "yuppie" neighborhoods are where all the good stuff is to take. heck it is best to keep life calm and quiet around where you live to keep the police away.

I always marvel when my redneck relatives ask how I can live somewhere as dangerous as Brooklyn, when statistically their little shiatholes have more crime per capita.

I will say that small towns aren't quite the same situation. The nicer neighborhoods don't get the crime as the police have an easier time spotting those who don't belong in the area since they tend to know everyone. Drugs are bad in small poor towns. There ain't jack squat to do and having to drive 60 miles to go bowling or to a movie kind of sucks. So the youth mainly poor youth get caught up in meth (billboards about the dangers of meth run year round in this area. so does billboards about the illegal ivory trade for some reason).


They use ivory for meth pipes
 
2014-05-25 11:29:05 AM

DrD'isInfotainment: CanisNoir: DrD'isInfotainment: stlbluez: "I KNOW SLAVERY because "  narrative

I call bullshiat! I'm making no such assertion. Only that my understanding springs from something I know about in  one line of my family.They came in 1634. I have another relative who was on the Mayflower, but THAT isn't the point. I also have Mexican andecedents,ScotchIrish Canadian, Dutch, belgian and others.My point is that the one who came to Sudbury Mass in 1634 had to work for 12 years to earn his freedom and the right to own land, and that it has remained part of the family lore ever since, so a reasonable person could imagine that a Black American might have so much of a burden of the Past on their Present, that it might color their perspective in ways that obstruct their progress in this country. So some meaningful gesture could be made by AMERICA to assuage some of their deep sense of legitimate grievance.

This is what I don't get. America constantly makes grand gestures; the countries history with slavery isn't a secret.
Assist the poor because the poor need assistance, not because disproportionatly it'll help blacks.
Young blacks have a self imposed image problem the same as poor urban whites.
The solutions are varied and begin with education and a different focus on what's "cool" for young urban adults. A focus on race only clouds the issue and hampers solutions.

Fair enough, but If I were a Black man or a Native Indian, I'd still have a phantom looming over my experience in this country. And I'm not sure it would all be resolved to an acceptable extent by your omnibus solution, but maybe it would be comprehensive enough for that to happen, in which case, good!


Hmm, I'm married to a Native American, I work with a lot of Native Indians (there's a difference, look for a feather or a dot, it helps).  I'm 3rd generation American of Norwegian heritage, about as white as you can get.  My wife's grandmother, who I spent some time with and loved dearly, went to one of those abhorrent "assimilation schools" you hear about once in a while out here in the west.  She felt no resentment toward me, and I no guilt toward her.  We loved each other dearly.

Meanwhile, my wife sees no need for reparations either.  We all come from a family.  Those families have histories.  Those sins and successes are theirs, not ours.  What we do with our lives is ours.  If that weren't the case, my family would be in a real mess.  Vikings and Blackfoot knew a thing or two about slaving.  It made the south look like summer camp.
 
2014-05-25 11:29:34 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Waldo Pepper: lilplatinum: Waldo Pepper: I lived in a neighborhood like that and it had its problems but what a lot of "yuppies"  don't understand is sure we might live around some criminal element but we got nothing to steal and your "yuppie" neighborhoods are where all the good stuff is to take. heck it is best to keep life calm and quiet around where you live to keep the police away.

I always marvel when my redneck relatives ask how I can live somewhere as dangerous as Brooklyn, when statistically their little shiatholes have more crime per capita.

I will say that small towns aren't quite the same situation. The nicer neighborhoods don't get the crime as the police have an easier time spotting those who don't belong in the area since they tend to know everyone. Drugs are bad in small poor towns. There ain't jack squat to do and having to drive 60 miles to go bowling or to a movie kind of sucks. So the youth mainly poor youth get caught up in meth (billboards about the dangers of meth run year round in this area. so does billboards about the illegal ivory trade for some reason).

They use ivory for meth pipes


seems a bit high priced for a meth pipe 

example of billboard.
michaelgstarkey.files.wordpress.com
 
Displayed 50 of 951 comments

First | « | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report