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(The Atlantic)   The case for reparations: "In America there is a strange and powerful belief that if you stab a black person 10 times, the bleeding stops and the healing begins the moment the assailant drops the knife"   (theatlantic.com) divider line 871
    More: Interesting, Massachusetts General Court, American racism, Valley Forge, humans, servitude, good behaviour, John Conyers, Manhattan Institute  
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11211 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 May 2014 at 10:58 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-25 12:33:30 AM  

Babwa Wawa: The Southern Dandy: I'm curious as to who gets the reparations?  Anyone with black skin?  What about white descendants of black slaves? What about blacks whose ancestors were not slaves?  Who decides?

I'm curious as to whether you've read the article?  Have you read all of it?  Looked up all the words you don't comprehend immediately?  Conferred with others as to the differing interpretations of context?

Who decides?


OK, so we should cut a check for $.01 to any black person.  I'm cool with that.  Not sure how that penny will be any different from the apology that was already issued by congress.
 
2014-05-25 12:33:49 AM  

Miss Alexandra: Never mind that blacks owned slaves too.


Exactly right, because TFA talks mostly about the things that have set black people back which happened in the 1920's-80's. So who owned slaves and world wide slavery really don't counter anything the article is about. But you were just being ironic, right?
 
2014-05-25 12:34:45 AM  
40 acres and a mule  DIVIDED BY (Babby Momma x Babby Daddy)= ?
 
the seventh of 13 children,

13 kids is just too damn many.
 
2014-05-25 12:34:49 AM  

I Browse: phenn: Would a black member of Fark care to chime in here? I'd be appreciative of your take.


Okay, I'll give it a shot.

As I read through the thread, I see that most people here are hung up on the slavery aspect of the story. That's understandable I guess, because the reparations arguments of the past have almost always centered on redress for slave labor. But the article (which I read yesterday) spends very little time on slavery. Hell, it doesn't even dwell on the Jim Crow south. Coates spends the vast majority of the article talking about how we were systematically, legally, and intentionally locked out of the American dream long after slavery was abolished, and he uses Chicago as a case study.

As a black person, do I want reparations? Nope. Not because I think it's a silly idea. But because I think it's the easy way out. I don't want the U.S. government writing a bunch of checks and then saying "Okay, we good now?" It completely oversimplifies the issue.

What the author is advocating in this article (if I read it correctly, and I believe I did) is not really financial reparations, but rather, acknowledgment and introspection. And on that point, I agree wholeheartedly. If America was ready to have an honest conversation about what has been done to black people in this country beyond slavery...then we wouldn't have people asking stupid questions like "Why can't blacks get their shiat together?" "Why can immigrants come here and succeed but blacks can't?" "Why are the blacks always complaining?"

Btw...for those who simply refuse to read the article, I can sum it up for you right here:

[www.leftycartoons.com image 650x511]


Yeah except for the cute little cartoon leaves out the fact that both of the people in that situation are DEAD and have been for a century. Their grandchildren are not responsible for actions that took place before they were born.
 
2014-05-25 12:36:12 AM  

taurusowner: Yeah except for the cute little cartoon leaves out the fact that both of the people in that situation are DEAD and have been for a century. Their grandchildren are not responsible for actions that took place before they were born.


So nobody alive today was around for the redlining of the 1960's? Are our mortality rates really that bad?
 
2014-05-25 12:36:20 AM  

Miss Alexandra: Never mind that blacks owned slaves too.  In fact the first slave owner in America was--wait for it!--black!  http://topconservativenews.com/2012/03/americas-first-slave-owner-was - a-black-man/

What about Arabs involved in the slave trade?  Why aren't the race hustlers shaking them down?  (Maybe they're afraid that the Arabs will declare jihad?  Who knows....)

How about the fact that slavery still goes on in Africa even today?

You can take that white guilt, shine it up, turn it sideways (I think you know the rest)....

As far as I'm concerned, blacks have already gotten reparations.  It's known as Section 8, welfare, and various other kinds of freebies.

Victimhood is an industry nowadays, it seems....


White people didn't invent slavery, but they did invent freedom.
 
2014-05-25 12:36:41 AM  

I Browse: phenn: Would a black member of Fark care to chime in here? I'd be appreciative of your take.


Okay, I'll give it a shot.

As I read through the thread, I see that most people here are hung up on the slavery aspect of the story. That's understandable I guess, because the reparations arguments of the past have almost always centered on redress for slave labor. But the article (which I read yesterday) spends very little time on slavery. Hell, it doesn't even dwell on the Jim Crow south. Coates spends the vast majority of the article talking about how we were systematically, legally, and intentionally locked out of the American dream long after slavery was abolished, and he uses Chicago as a case study.

As a black person, do I want reparations? Nope. Not because I think it's a silly idea. But because I think it's the easy way out. I don't want the U.S. government writing a bunch of checks and then saying "Okay, we good now?" It completely oversimplifies the issue.

What the author is advocating in this article (if I read it correctly, and I believe I did) is not really financial reparations, but rather, acknowledgment and introspection. And on that point, I agree wholeheartedly. If America was ready to have an honest conversation about what has been done to black people in this country beyond slavery...then we wouldn't have people asking stupid questions like "Why can't blacks get their shiat together?" "Why can immigrants come here and succeed but blacks can't?" "Why are the blacks always complaining?"

Btw...for those who simply refuse to read the article, I can sum it up for you right here:


I can tell you what I think of it personally.

They want everyone to just shut up and go back to their supposedly minimum wage job (if they even work) and just accept the system for what it is.

Because that is what they do.

Anyone who agitates the system to try and get more out of it is a threat.

I don't even want a check, I just want actual fairness and equity in the system, instead of nice happy talk about how we are a race blind society now.

Because if you think that our system even resembles fair, you can go jump in the Mighty Mississippi for all I care.
 
2014-05-25 12:36:44 AM  

I Browse: Btw...for those who simply refuse to read the article, I can sum it up for you right here:

[www.leftycartoons.com image 650x511]


Seriously?  There are people who think blacks have been given NO extra help ever?
 
2014-05-25 12:37:27 AM  

odinsposse: taurusowner: Yeah except for the cute little cartoon leaves out the fact that both of the people in that situation are DEAD and have been for a century. Their grandchildren are not responsible for actions that took place before they were born.

So nobody alive today was around for the redlining of the 1960's? Are our mortality rates really that bad?


You'll be hard pressed to find many people who were responsible for instituting redlining still in any position of authority
 
2014-05-25 12:37:41 AM  
We probably shouldn't pay any money to the descendants of slave owners.  That would mean a whole lot of blacks would not get reparations.  We should probably make them pay back society since their ancestors were rapists.
 
2014-05-25 12:38:03 AM  
The central point of this article is false. It's summed up in the following statement:

"The reason black people are so far behind now is not because of now. It's because of then."

This would make perfect sense if the U.S. were the only country in the world.  But as it's not, you don't have to just look at how black people are doing in the U.S., you can look at how they're doing in every other country in the world which didn't have slavery.  What you'll find is that black people are just as far behind there as well.

The legacy of U.S. slavery is clearly not holding back black people in Canada and England and the entirety of Africa.  So what is?  It must be something else.
 
2014-05-25 12:38:15 AM  

taurusowner: Yeah except for the cute little cartoon leaves out the fact that both of the people in that situation are DEAD and have been for a century. Their grandchildren are not responsible for actions that took place before they were born.


So, we can safely presume that you would happily give up any social privileges or rights you did not personally earn?
 
2014-05-25 12:38:17 AM  
www.normanadams.org

Just look at how good this kid has it! FOUR completely FREE personal bodyguards!
 
2014-05-25 12:39:57 AM  

advex101: BlueDWarrior: advex101: Black folks are about to become the 2nd largest minority in America.  After that they will be outvoted by the Latinos and the gringos.  Also inter racial marriage is really going to start diluting the blame pool in the future.

Its beyond blame at this point.

We just want an audit just so we can see just how screwed we've been as a people.

Maybe then we can consider the proper structure going forward.

Why do you speak of yourself as though you represent a pure racial group?  It would make more sense to base your argument on economics than race.  And, you would find that you have more supporters.


Because you can't take one without the other. They are like conjoined twins.

A lot of previous policy that makes up the bulk of what we operate under now is based upon screwing both minorities and women.

Until we properly account for ALL of it, we will not advance as a society.
 
2014-05-25 12:40:17 AM  

jso2897: Even at this point in the thread, most of the posters make it obvious that they didn't RTFA at all.
They think somebody is talking about randomly writing checks to black folks.


The irony I see is that the point of the article is about having a discussion, actually looking at facts about institutionalized racism, and how difficult it is to have an honest conversation about what happened and how bad it was.

Apparently not only is that impossible, it's impossible to get people to talk about having the conversation.
 
2014-05-25 12:40:33 AM  

2chris2: The central point of this article is false. It's summed up in the following statement:

"The reason black people are so far behind now is not because of now. It's because of then."

This would make perfect sense if the U.S. were the only country in the world.  But as it's not, you don't have to just look at how black people are doing in the U.S., you can look at how they're doing in every other country in the world which didn't have slavery.  What you'll find is that black people are just as far behind there as well.

The legacy of U.S. slavery is clearly not holding back black people in Canada and England and the entirety of Africa.  So what is?  It must be something else.


Why don't you tell us, if you think you know?
 
2014-05-25 12:41:49 AM  
Reparations have been paid is social programs. Also the 40 acres and a mule was promised by a lone general to get freed slaves to stop following his regiment.
 
2014-05-25 12:42:01 AM  

ox45tallboy: jso2897: Even at this point in the thread, most of the posters make it obvious that they didn't RTFA at all.
They think somebody is talking about randomly writing checks to black folks.

The irony I see is that the point of the article is about having a discussion, actually looking at facts about institutionalized racism, and how difficult it is to have an honest conversation about what happened and how bad it was.

Apparently not only is that impossible, it's impossible to get people to talk about having the conversation.


They are terrified that someone might take away from them something they never earned and don't own to begin with.
 
2014-05-25 12:42:44 AM  

cchris_39: I'm all for reparations.

Anybody who's not happy here should renounce their citizenship and receive free plane ticket back to the county of their birth and $1,000 in cash.


you dont sound very happy.

possibly it's the pearl of derp, forming in recesses your brain day in day out as you're exposed to the toxins of your own opinion.

likely, even.
 
2014-05-25 12:43:23 AM  

Babwa Wawa: moothemagiccow: Why should I bother to read the article when you just told me it was largely a waste of time?

I know, right?  I don't want to think about difficult problems either.  I'll just go look at porn.


As far as I can tell, the whole "institutional racism" thing is just recreational outrage. Nobody has a practical way of fixing it so they just fawn over minorities, act like privilege is something only other people have and make a fuss about affirmative action in the cast of saturday night live. Or whatever's "disgraceful" this month. I'm pretty sure we were on the Redskins, who got a pass for 82 years, but only  now their name is offensive.

//dnrtfa
//tl;dr
 
2014-05-25 12:43:46 AM  

Address on Civil Rights (June 11, 1963)
John Fitzgerald Kennedy

Kennedy speaks from the Oval Office in response to the National Guard being sent
to protect African American students at the University of Alabama.




Good evening, my fellow citizens:

This afternoon, following a series of threats and defiant statements, the presence of Alabama National Guardsmen was required on the University of Alabama to carry out the final and unequivocal order of the United States District Court of the Northern District of Alabama. That order called for the admission of two clearly qualified young Alabama residents who happened to have been born Negro.

That they were admitted peacefully on the campus is due in good measure to the conduct of the students of the University of Alabama, who met their responsibilities in a constructive way.

I hope that every American, regardless of where he lives, will stop and examine his conscience about this and other related incidents. This Nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.

Today we are committed to a worldwide struggle to promote and protect the rights of all who wish to be free. And when Americans are sent to Viet-Nam or West Berlin, we do not ask for whites only. It ought to be possible, therefore, for American students of any color to attend any public institution they select without having to be backed up by troops.

It ought to be possible for American consumers of any color to receive equal service in places of public accommodation, such as hotels and restaurants and theaters and retail stores, without being forced to resort to demonstrations in the street, and it ought to be possible for American citizens of any color to register and to vote in a free election without interference or fear of reprisal.

It ought to be possible, in short, for every American to enjoy the privileges of being American without regard to his race or his color. In short, every American ought to have the right to be treated as he would wish to be treated, as one would wish his children to be treated. But this is not the case.

The Negro baby born in America today, regardless of the section of the Nation in which he is born, has about one-half as much chance of completing a high school as a white baby born in the same place on the same day, one-third as much chance of completing college, one-third as much chance of becoming a professional man, twice as much chance of becoming unemployed, about one-seventh as much chance of earning $10,000 a year, a life expectancy which is 7 years shorter, and the prospects of earning only half as much.

This is not a sectional issue. Difficulties over segregation and discrimination exist in every city, in every State of the Union, producing in many cities a rising tide of discontent that threatens the public safety. Nor is this a partisan issue. In a time of domestic crisis men of good will and generosity should be able to unite regardless of party or politics. This is not even a legal or legislative issue alone. It is better to settle these matters in the courts than on the streets, and new laws are needed at every level, but law alone cannot make men see right.

We are confronted primarily with a moral issue. It is as old as the scriptures and is as clear as the American Constitution.

The heart of the question is whether all Americans are to be afforded equal rights and equal opportunities, whether we are going to treat our fellow Americans as we want to be treated. If an American, because his skin is dark, cannot eat lunch in a restaurant open to the public, if he cannot send his children to the best public school available, if he cannot vote for the public officials who represent him, if, in short, he cannot enjoy the full and free life which all of us want, then who among us would be content to have the color of his skin changed and stand in his place? Who among us would then be content with the counsels of patience and delay?

One hundred years of delay have passed since President Lincoln freed the slaves, yet their heirs, their grandsons, are not fully free. They are not yet freed from the bonds of injustice. They are not yet freed from social and economic oppression.

And this Nation, for all its hopes and all its boasts, will not be fully free until all its citizens are free.

We preach freedom around the world, and we mean it, and we cherish our freedom here at home, but are we to say to the world, and much more importantly, to each other that this is a land of the free except for the Negroes; that we have no second-class citizens except Negroes; that we have no class or cast system, no ghettoes, no master race except with respect to Negroes?

Now the time has come for this Nation to fulfill its promise. The events in Birmingham and elsewhere have so increased the cries for equality that no city or State or legislative body can prudently choose to ignore them.

The fires of frustration and discord are burning in every city, North and South, where legal remedies are not at hand. Redress is sought in the streets, in demonstrations, parades, and protests which create tensions and threaten violence and threaten lives.

We face, therefore, a moral crisis as a country and as a people. It cannot be met by repressive police action. It cannot be left to increased demonstrations in the streets. It cannot be quieted by token moves or talk. It is a time to act in the Congress, in your State and local legislative body and, above all, in all of our daily lives.

It is not enough to pin the blame on others, to say this is a problem of one section of the country or another, or deplore the fact that we face. A great change is at hand, and our task, our obligation, is to make that revolution, that change, peaceful and constructive for all.

Those who do nothing are inviting shame as well as violence. Those who act boldly are recognizing right as well as reality.

Next week I shall ask the Congress of the United States to act, to make a commitment it has not fully made in this century to the proposition that race has no place in American life or law. The Federal judiciary has upheld that proposition in a series of forthright cases. The executive branch has adopted that proposition in the conduct of its affairs, including the employment of Federal personnel, the use of Federal facilities, and the sale of federally financed housing.

But there are other necessary measures which only the Congress can provide, and they must be provided at this session. The old code of equity law under which we live commands for every wrong a remedy, but in too many communities, in too many parts of the country, wrongs are inflicted on Negro citizens and there are no remedies at law. Unless the Congress acts, their only remedy is in the street.

I am, therefore, asking the Congress to enact legislation giving all Americans the right to be served in facilities which are open to the public-hotels, restaurants, theaters, retail stores, and similar establishments.

This seems to me to be an elementary right. Its denial is an arbitrary indignity that no American in 1963 should have to endure, but many do.

I have recently met with scores of business leaders urging them to take voluntary action to end this discrimination and I have been encouraged by their response, and in the last 2 weeks over 75 cities have seen progress made in desegregating these kinds of facilities. But many are unwilling to act alone, and for this reason, nationwide legislation is needed if we are to move this problem from the streets to the courts.

I am also asking Congress to authorize the Federal Government to participate more fully in lawsuits designed to end segregation in public education. We have succeeded in persuading many districts to de-segregate voluntarily. Dozens have admitted Negroes without violence. Today a Negro is attending a State-supported institution in every one of our 50 States, but the pace is very slow.

Too many Negro children entering segregated grade schools at the time of the Supreme Court's decision 9 years ago will enter segregated high schools this fall, having suffered a loss which can never be restored. The lack of an adequate education denies the Negro a chance to get a decent job.

The orderly implementation of the Supreme Court decision, therefore, cannot be left solely to those who may not have the economic resources to carry the legal action or who may be subject to harassment.

Other features will be also requested, including greater protection for the right to vote. But legislation, I repeat, cannot solve this problem alone. It must be solved in the homes of every American in every community across our country.

In this respect, I want to pay tribute to those citizens North and South who have been working in their communities to make life better for all. They are acting not out of a sense of legal duty but out of a sense of human decency.

Like our soldiers and sailors in all parts of the world they are meeting freedom's challenge on the firing line, and I salute them for their honor and their courage.

My fellow Americans, this is a problem which faces us all-in every city of the North as well as the South. Today there are Negroes unemployed, two or three times as many compared to whites, inadequate in education, moving into the large cities, unable to find work, young people particularly out of work without hope, denied equal rights, denied the opportunity to eat at a restaurant or lunch counter or go to a movie theater, denied the right to a decent education, denied almost today the right to attend a State university even though qualified. It seems to me that these are matters which concern us all, not merely Presidents or Congressmen or Governors, but every citizen of the United States.

This is one country.

It has become one country because all of us and all the people who came here had an equal chance to develop their talents.

We cannot say to 10 percent of the population that you can't have that right; that your children can't have the chance to develop whatever talents they have; that the only way that they are going to get their rights is to go into the streets and demonstrate. I think we owe them and we owe ourselves a better country than that.

Therefore, I am asking for your help in making it easier for us to move ahead and to provide the kind of equality of treatment which we would want ourselves; to give a chance for every child to be educated to the limit of his talents.

As I have said before, not every child has an equal talent or an equal ability or an equal motivation, but they should have the equal right to develop their talent and their ability and their motivation, to make something of themselves.

We have a right to expect that the Negro community will be responsible, will uphold the law, but they have a right to expect that the law will be fair, that the Constitution will be color blind, as Justice Harlan said at the turn of the century.

This is what we are talking about and this is a matter which concerns this country and what it stands for, and in meeting it I ask the support of all our citizens.

Thank you very much.
 
2014-05-25 12:44:03 AM  
This thread is like a giant honeypot for racist farkheads. Filled with delicious, sticky honey.
 
2014-05-25 12:45:02 AM  

Waldo Pepper: taurusowner: OK. Find me someone who was a slave, find someone who owned slaves, and make them pay the first person reparations. If you can't do that, shut the fark up about it. If you weren't a slave, you aren't owed shiat for slavery. If you didn't own slaves, you don't owe anyone shiat for slavery.

Your crimes are yours, mine are mine. I will not pay for yours, and I will not ask you to pay for mine.

I have a cousin who's was a slave along with her brother's and mom in Brazil in the 60's but I guess that doesn't count for this discussion


Actually that does count. If those people who really were slaves can find the people responsible, and there was some way to make them pay reparations, they absolutely should.

Consider a parallel to the way people still hunt Nazi concentration camp officers. These are guys who are in their 80s and 90s. And yet when they find one, every attempt is made at bringing them to justice for the crimes they personally did commit or oversaw. That is entirely justified. But would it be justified to send their children or grandchildren to prison because of what their parent or grandparent did? Of course not. Once the people who actually committed the crimes die, it's over. You cannot justly go after their descendants just because you couldn't get to them in time. Your children do not inherit your guilt for anything. Not for stealing a TV, not for running a concentration camp, and not for slavery. I'm sorry that those responsible were never properly brought to justice for slavery. But they're dead and that's that. Their great grandchildren do not owe anyone anything for crimes that happened a century+ before they were even born.
 
2014-05-25 12:46:26 AM  

The Southern Dandy: OK, so we should cut a check for $.01 to any black person.  I'm cool with that.  Not sure how that penny will be any different from the apology that was already issued by congress.


If you could possibly sit down and dedicate an hour or two to reading the article, you could understand the foundational issues.  In fact, the author doesn't talk about monetary damages - it's about structure, and by all available statistical evidence, the structural impediments to black advancement remain to this day.  (little nugget FTA - statistically, a white felon is as likely to get hired as a black person with a clean record).

Address those, and you'll get to the post-racial society you wish already existed.  And it could be done within a generation.

But hey, if you want to drag this out longer, that's fine.  Let your kids deal with it.  They might be more open minded than you.

Betep: 40 acres and a mule  DIVIDED BY (Babby Momma x Babby Daddy)= ?
 
the seventh of 13 children,

13 kids is just too damn many.


Wow.  This thread is full of crazy racists.  I'm going to bed.
 
2014-05-25 12:48:12 AM  
"Having read the article I know you do not mean white folks writing checks to black folks. So in an ideal world what form would reparations take?"

"In an ideal world, when we talk about social justice we would understand it as part of healing that heritage and dealing with that legacy. So, for instance, take healthcare right now, when you look at a whole swath of where we had enslavement, we had plantation slavery on a very very deep level, and you look at that and say 'why is there not a medicaid expansion?' We would be very clear about why there's not one going on right now. And those of us who make policy, those of us who have power, who sit on our courts, would think about that when we make rulings. We wouldn't be afraid to say that.

Right now in following John Roberts line, I think what he said is 'to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race'. What we want is a kind of color-blindness, we think that's the answer. But color blindness isn't the answer. Color isn't the problem! Racism is the problem. And being conscious of racism is the solution. It would like to see that in our policy. One of the attacks from the right, from Rush Limbaugh is, 'this is reparations'. Well not quite, but it could be. It would be nice of that was a part of it. I would be nice if you would actually say that. Outside of politics, yeah this will disproportionately benefit African-Americans, and yeah that's a really really good thing. It might actually help heal this heritage that we have. And in ideal world you could actually say that. In a world in which people are actively considering reparations, and actively thinking about it, and talking about it in a serious way, you could say that." Link
 
2014-05-25 12:50:30 AM  

jso2897: They are terrified that someone might take away from them something they never earned and don't own to begin with.


But they did inherit the "labors" of their ancestors who killed off the natives, exploited generations of slave labor, and systematically stole any accumulation of wealth on the part of the descendants of slaves.

It's not white guilt, it's human understanding. If we can actually examine the problems caused by generations of institutionalized bias, we might start to see some solutions.
 
2014-05-25 12:50:45 AM  
Miss Alexandra 2014-05-25 12:30:52 AM

I'm oppressed because all of you believe in the vile unbiblical satanic concept that the Earth actually orbits the Sun.

Go tell it to the Horse Marines.
 
2014-05-25 12:50:53 AM  

eljasbo: Isn't affirmative action the reparations? That is in itself it's own form of racism.


Alex, I'll take "How to drive a wedge" for 200
 
2014-05-25 12:52:08 AM  

moothemagiccow: As far as I can tell, the whole "institutional racism" thing is just recreational outrage.


Wow, dude.  So there's the whole thing in TFA about racial policies w/r/t real estate, and given the reality that that's how the middle class built wealth here in the US during the 20th century, it has some pretty heavy effects.

And then there's the whole war on drugs, which can't possibly get more institutional.

moothemagiccow: //dnrtfa


Well, that's obvious.
 
2014-05-25 12:52:26 AM  

acohn: lizaardvark: IlGreven: itcamefromschenectady: Do Jews deserve money because of the Holocaust, if they didn't personally live through it?

...they got an entire country. What have blacks gotten other than centuries of oppression?

An entire country. See "Liberia".

How's that workin' out for them?


Old people are buying their overpriced commemorative coins that are legal tender in Liberia.
 
2014-05-25 12:52:27 AM  
Us Indians get paid first, right?
 
2014-05-25 12:52:33 AM  
So, when they tracked down all that art and treasure that the Nazis stole, and confiscated it from the heirs of those now- dead Nazis, and returned it to the descendants of the also now-dead Jews they stole it from, that was wrong? Because all culpability and liability ends at the moment of death? I don't think so.
If I enjoy wealth and social privilege that were stolen from your ancestors, and that you do not enjoy - are you and me just squaresy waresy, and everything cool? If so, you're a bigger man than I am.
 
2014-05-25 12:52:45 AM  

kriegsgeist: This thread is like a giant honeypot for racist farkheads. Filled with delicious, sticky honey.


Oh get off it. We're all racist.

Babwa Wawa: Address those, and you'll get to the post-racial society you wish already existed.  And it could be done within a generation.


Explain how. You already shot down reparations. I'm blackballing affirmative action. Go.
 
2014-05-25 12:53:04 AM  

moothemagiccow: //dnrtfa
//tl;dr


This was posted upthread, but for anyone who wants to look like they RTFA when they didn't, try this:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2014/05/22/314881767/how-to-tell -i f-someones-actually-read-ta-nehisi-coates-essay
 
2014-05-25 12:53:38 AM  
I don't know what anyone has against actually examining an institutional or historical wrong, in an effort to correct it.

Some of you actually sound afraid.
 
2014-05-25 12:54:37 AM  

ox45tallboy: jso2897: They are terrified that someone might take away from them something they never earned and don't own to begin with.

But they did inherit the "labors" of their ancestors who killed off the natives, exploited generations of slave labor, and systematically stole any accumulation of wealth on the part of the descendants of slaves.

It's not white guilt, it's human understanding. If we can actually examine the problems caused by generations of institutionalized bias, we might start to see some solutions.


Fear makes people irrational, man. I don't know what else to tell you.
 
2014-05-25 12:55:21 AM  
What I am hearing, even if it is not being stated in as many words, is this notion that the African, and by extension the African-American is too intellectually inferior in order to advance their position.

The fact that the African continent has been abused by colonial powers in the past and still is abused by multi-national corporations doesn't count.

The fact that there are entire volumes of encyclopedias that can be written on all the specific codified law that went into disassembling both the franchise of the African American and his economic agency, all of that doesn't count.

The fact that the way we treat crime in American is skewed heavily toward treating whites like 'normal' and Black and Brown people like 'animals waiting to reoffend' doesn't count.

Everything we as a country have done to the people within our borders, and what we as a global society have done just... doesn't count.

It's the black man's fault he gets sentenced at a disproportionately high rate.
It's the black woman's fault that her unplanned pregnancy is a sign of moral and logical failure.
It's the black child's fault his schools are falling apart and he is almost destined to the traps of the previous two.

Is that what we are really saying?

I honestly want to know...
 
2014-05-25 12:55:30 AM  
taurusowner:

Yeah except for the cute little cartoon leaves out the fact that both of the people in that situation are DEAD and have been for a century. Their grandchildren are not responsible for actions that took place before they were born.


The last panel of the cartoon is the most relevant one to this article (specifically the very last line spoken by the white character: "If I made it up here by myself, why can't you?")

Again...it's not just about slavery. If slavery had ended and white America collectively said: "You know what? You people got a shiatty deal. Well, that ends starting right now. You have the exact same rights that we do and we will make sure that is legally enforced. Not only that, we will view you and treat you as our equals, and welcome you into a fully integrated society."

If that attitude had prevailed in 1865 and black people still had the exact same problems that we do now...I'd completely agree with you. But as we both know...that shiat didn't happen. Just the opposite in fact. Which is the entire point of the article.
 
2014-05-25 12:55:50 AM  

Kittypie070: then who among us would be content to have the color of his skin changed and stand in his place?


i1.ytimg.com
"And I'm rich!"

 
2014-05-25 12:57:04 AM  

Babwa Wawa: moothemagiccow: As far as I can tell, the whole "institutional racism" thing is just recreational outrage.

Wow, dude.  So there's the whole thing in TFA about racial policies w/r/t real estate, and given the reality that that's how the middle class built wealth here in the US during the 20th century, it has some pretty heavy effects.

And then there's the whole war on drugs, which can't possibly get more institutional.

moothemagiccow: //dnrtfa

Well, that's obvious.


I didn't say it wasn't real. That's dumb. Colleges study it, journalists write these articles, slacktivists share them on facebook and get super mad about the ebil white men, and nothing farking happens because no one knows what to do about it.
 
2014-05-25 12:57:05 AM  

Kittypie070: I don't know what anyone has against actually examining an institutional or historical wrong, in an effort to correct it.

Some of you actually sound afraid.


Well, how YOU doin'?
i18.photobucket.com
 
2014-05-25 01:00:15 AM  
Hey NASA, you just burnt up a shuttle on re-entry! There's scrap metal and pieces of dead people fallin outta the sky!

NO WE UTTERLY REFUSE TO EXAMINE OUR FLAWED SAFETY CULTURE NO NO NO WAAH

WE WON'T ATTEMPT TO FIX ANYTHING EITHER YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO GUILT TRIP US.


Seriously, that's how some of y'all sound.
 
2014-05-25 01:00:17 AM  
Pfft. Most of the people my family used to own are doing far better than I am. Karma already paid reparations for me.
 
2014-05-25 01:01:49 AM  

jso2897: Kittypie070: I don't know what anyone has against actually examining an institutional or historical wrong, in an effort to correct it.

Some of you actually sound afraid.


Well, how YOU doin'?
[i18.photobucket.com image 160x120]


I'm fine because I took the time to read the farking article.
 
2014-05-25 01:03:54 AM  

Strolpol: I see this thread was roughly as successful as I envisioned it'd be.

It was a good article. The stuff about how the housing market screwed over generations of blacks was particularly enlightening. I knew Chicago always had issues with integration, but I was unaware that there was an entire secondary market based entirely around forcing any black that wanted to buy a home to do so through incredibly unscrupulous predatory lenders.

I knew, when I read the article, that most people would probably just see the title and write it off as the libbiest lib dream that ever libbed, but it was insightful and informative. I expect I won't see another like it for some time.


Sadly, a story like this always brings out the bigots (and the shills who either act like bigots or are our local Stormfront rejects).  I liked what I've read of the article so far, and really need to finish it tomorrow.
 
2014-05-25 01:04:23 AM  
Democrat leadership has ensured that African Americans as a whole will never be able to compete.  Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc make too much money on racial inequality.  Why have blacks lagged so far behind Asians, the Irish, Latinos and every other single minority that was poorly mistreated at one point in time in our country?
 
2014-05-25 01:05:19 AM  
Fer chrissakes... it's not about you or some sins-of-the-father accounting, but you'd know that IF YOU READ THE BEAUTIFULLY-WRITTEN ARTICLE YOU ILLITERATE SHRIEKBAGS.
 
2014-05-25 01:05:54 AM  
I did nothing wrong

except for every single "post" you've ever made on fark dot com
 
2014-05-25 01:06:12 AM  

Miss Alexandra: Never mind that blacks owned slaves too.  In fact the first slave owner in America was--wait for it!--black!  http://topconservativenews.com/2012/03/americas-first-slave-owner-was - a-black-man/

What about Arabs involved in the slave trade?  Why aren't the race hustlers shaking them down?  (Maybe they're afraid that the Arabs will declare jihad?  Who knows....)

How about the fact that slavery still goes on in Africa even today?

You can take that white guilt, shine it up, turn it sideways (I think you know the rest)....

As far as I'm concerned, blacks have already gotten reparations.  It's known as Section 8, welfare, and various other kinds of freebies.

Victimhood is an industry nowadays, it seems....


Damn, you're ugly.
 
2014-05-25 01:07:05 AM  

I Browse: taurusowner:

Yeah except for the cute little cartoon leaves out the fact that both of the people in that situation are DEAD and have been for a century. Their grandchildren are not responsible for actions that took place before they were born.


The last panel of the cartoon is the most relevant one to this article (specifically the very last line spoken by the white character: "If I made it up here by myself, why can't you?")

Again...it's not just about slavery. If slavery had ended and white America collectively said: "You know what? You people got a shiatty deal. Well, that ends starting right now. You have the exact same rights that we do and we will make sure that is legally enforced. Not only that, we will view you and treat you as our equals, and welcome you into a fully integrated society."

If that attitude had prevailed in 1865 and black people still had the exact same problems that we do now...I'd completely agree with you. But as we both know...that shiat didn't happen. Just the opposite in fact. Which is the entire point of the article.


Over 1500 blacks were elected to state and federal offices before 1875. But that doesn't count, any more than President Obama counts. Nope, because America had slavery when it was first created, it must be drained of money and torn down, so a new and perfect country can be built in its place.

/and when nothing gets built in its place, it won't be the fault of the looters who destroyed it, of course
//it will all be blamed on the people who failed to be perfect enough to create the perfect nation that worked perfectly on paper
 
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