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(The Atlantic)   The case for reparations: "In America there is a strange and powerful belief that if you stab a black person 10 times, the bleeding stops and the healing begins the moment the assailant drops the knife"   (theatlantic.com) divider line 951
    More: Interesting, Massachusetts General Court, American racism, Valley Forge, humans, servitude, good behaviour, John Conyers, Manhattan Institute  
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11201 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 May 2014 at 10:58 PM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-24 11:21:58 PM  

Babwa Wawa: DubtodaIll: forgot to use a sarcastrophe there. Obviously money can only buy things. The entire argument for reparations does not hold water. It will not make anyone whole. You think more handouts is going to do anything to improve the plight of black people in America? The only way to success is through the achievements of your own work and effort. Guilting someone into giving you things is the way con men make their money.

Yah, yah, yuh.  You didn't read the farking article did you?

Please to explain where IN THE F*CKING ARTICLE HE PROPOSES HANDOUTS.


Reparations are handouts.
 
2014-05-24 11:22:08 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: To The Escape Zeppelin!: Sounds more like a problem with the decline of social mobility in the US than with racism. The poor in the US remain poor, doesn't matter if you're black or white.

As far as conservatives are concerned, black people and poor people are one and the same.


With this in mind let's have the "photo ID needed to vote" discussion and see where that goes.
 
2014-05-24 11:23:04 PM  
www.normanadams.org


Freeloading blacks want handouts. MY family never owned slaves!
 
2014-05-24 11:23:12 PM  

cchris_39: I'm all for reparations.

Anybody who's not happy here should renounce their citizenship and receive free plane ticket back to the county of their birth and $1,000 in cash.


So if I'm against reparations I should be put on a plane and flown back to precisely where I'm currently residing?  That's a waste of money.
 
2014-05-24 11:23:27 PM  

DubtodaIll: Reparations are handouts.


Correction:  Reparations CAN be handouts.  You lack imagination.

Also, you lack the ability to READ THE F*CKING ARTICLE.
 
2014-05-24 11:23:32 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Abox: My family didn't come here til around 1900 so don't blame me.

You're not to blame. But that's not the point. America is to blame. This article moves the discussion forward on we as a country atone for our racial sins -- not just of the past, but also the ones we are committing today.


I'm not racially sinning today either so leave me out of it.
 
2014-05-24 11:23:51 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: This article moves the discussion forward on we as a country atone for our racial sins -- not just of the past, but also the ones we are committing today.


Who's "we," crazy cracker?
 
2014-05-24 11:24:13 PM  
I blame Germany and how it handled post WWII guilt,  Handing out money to whoever asked.
Bad things happen.  No group of former slaves in history got reparations.  It's not happening here.
 
2014-05-24 11:24:18 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
Reparations were paid 150 years ago, Quit yer whining.
 
2014-05-24 11:24:20 PM  

Abox: I'm not racially sinning today either so leave me out of it.


For the second time, it's not about you. It's about America. Jesus christ.
 
2014-05-24 11:25:10 PM  

neongoats: Yeah, I'm almost more liberal than the libbyest lib that ever libed and yeah, no thanks.

If anything just make confederate flag waving dickhead states in the south pay up, my ancestors were part of burning Atlanta to the ground and I'm sad they didn't burn harder and wider.


What's hilarious (if you want to call it that) is that with Booker T. Washington....the "T" stands for the name of part of my family.  So......yeah.  :/

/we also have a county named for us in the South....go, us! :P
 
2014-05-24 11:25:31 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Abox: I'm not racially sinning today either so leave me out of it.

For the second time, it's not about you. It's about America. Jesus christ.


I'm an American.
 
2014-05-24 11:25:32 PM  
Is this sponsored by Nike and Beats headphones? Because that's where the money will go.
 
2014-05-24 11:25:35 PM  

Yogimus: So does oppression against chinese, whites, jews, mexicans, etc... What makes one group a sacred cow, while the others consistently succeed?


I wouldn't say that Chinese and Mexicans consistently succeed. In fact, a lot of Chinese and Mexicans still work in low class slave labor type jobs.
 
2014-05-24 11:26:19 PM  
Well, they should start with the original slavers who sold their ancestors to the highest bidder.

But realistically, they should be good Christians and just forgive and forget. You don't see Asians walking around complaining about the legacy of slavery; it's counterproductive.

Plus, you're ceding power to the ancestors of the people who enslaved your ancestors, so you're being enslaved twice.
 
2014-05-24 11:26:30 PM  
Well duh, it's the Chinese that are zerglings.
 
2014-05-24 11:26:32 PM  

cabbyman: Bith Set Me Up: To The Escape Zeppelin!: Sounds more like a problem with the decline of social mobility in the US than with racism. The poor in the US remain poor, doesn't matter if you're black or white.

As far as conservatives are concerned, black people and poor people are one and the same.

With this in mind let's have the "photo ID needed to vote" discussion and see where that goes.


The problem is both

Despite the rhetoric, the system in effect has disdain for the poor, and outright malice for Blacks.

On a related vein, how many times have we heard that blacks need to do like other minorities and abandon their culture, or at least the parts that can't be exploited and sold to white suburbanites...
 
2014-05-24 11:27:04 PM  

xanadian: neongoats: Yeah, I'm almost more liberal than the libbyest lib that ever libed and yeah, no thanks.

If anything just make confederate flag waving dickhead states in the south pay up, my ancestors were part of burning Atlanta to the ground and I'm sad they didn't burn harder and wider.

What's hilarious (if you want to call it that) is that with Booker T. Washington....the "T" stands for the name of part of my family.  So......yeah.  :/

/we also have a county named for us in the South....go, us! :P


Heh, I went to Booker T Washington high school(in the south, sorta, Florida, don't live in crazy state anymore)
 
2014-05-24 11:27:11 PM  
Man, this is the most "read the article" dense thread I've seen in a long long time. Fark, what happened to you?
 
2014-05-24 11:27:13 PM  
How do we determine who gets a check and for how much?  DNA tests?  Do we go by the shade of the skin?  Do albino African-Americans get nothing?  Tough luck for them I guess?
Do biracial people get a half a check?  Children of biracial get a quarter?
How do we determine who pays the money?  Is it only whites that pay? How much?  Poor people pay as much as rich people?
Are people who made something of themselves and succeeded in life because they believed themselves to be an individual and not a drone of some hive or group getting a check?
Are we giving rich people like Will Smith or Magic Johnson a check?
What about the blacks that immigrated here recently from a country that no American held a slave ever?  What is giving them money reparations for?
Are we making blacks that immigrated here recently from a country where blacks enslaved others and sold them to whitey pay?  How much is their portion?
 
2014-05-24 11:27:16 PM  

vernonFL: [www.normanadams.org image 850x540]


Freeloading blacks want handouts. MY family never owned slaves!


Isn't that something. Just to go to school.

....sigh....
 
2014-05-24 11:27:36 PM  

Babwa Wawa: DubtodaIll: Reparations are handouts.

Correction:  Reparations CAN be handouts.  You lack imagination.

Also, you lack the ability to READ THE F*CKING ARTICLE.


I did read it. It doesn't change the fact that any concessions given over the past come from those in power to give those concessions. I don't see how that help anyone achieve greatness or success. It is conceding that you are unable to make yourself happy on your own and that you need the help of those in power to accomplish that.
 
2014-05-24 11:28:24 PM  

IlGreven: itcamefromschenectady: Do Jews deserve money because of the Holocaust, if they didn't personally live through it?

...they got an entire country. What have blacks gotten other than centuries of oppression?


Does Liberia count? ( piss-poor "compensation" for slavery, IMHO)
 
2014-05-24 11:28:32 PM  

Babwa Wawa: That being said, I agree that we are not in a post-racial society, and that his modest proposals (which consist of simple consideration and study of the issue) are worthwhile.


I think that's what's raising so much controversy - in order to gauge what is needed to make something whole, you must start with acknowledging what damage has been done.

It would be a huuuuuuge thing for America to at least acknowledge the institutionalized racism in its public policy for its entire history.
 
2014-05-24 11:29:40 PM  
Many of my clients are black folks who are making money hand over fist, and don't want to be patted on the head.
 
2014-05-24 11:29:47 PM  
Haven't read the article yet. How about we end the war on drugs and stop giving breaks for certain businesses. Racism stops when we stop seeing race.
 
2014-05-24 11:30:17 PM  

vernonFL: [www.normanadams.org image 850x540]


Norman Rockwell could paint corny wholesome Americana with the best of them, but when he laid down the hammer, he farking laid it down.  That painting, as stylized and as intentionally string-pulling as it is, gives me the chills every single time.
 
2014-05-24 11:30:23 PM  

IlGreven: itcamefromschenectady: Do Jews deserve money because of the Holocaust, if they didn't personally live through it?

...they got an entire country. What have blacks gotten other than centuries of oppression?


Liberia?

Also...you do realize I wrote "Jews" and you're the second person to equate that with Zionists and Israelis? Are you thinking the implications through?
 
2014-05-24 11:30:24 PM  

lizaardvark: IlGreven: itcamefromschenectady: Do Jews deserve money because of the Holocaust, if they didn't personally live through it?

...they got an entire country. What have blacks gotten other than centuries of oppression?

An entire country. See "Liberia".


How's that workin' out for them?
 
2014-05-24 11:30:39 PM  
In America there is a strange and powerful belief that people whose ancestors may or may not have ever stabbed anybody owe money to the descendants people who got stabbed, whether or not said descendants were ever stabbed themselves.
 
2014-05-24 11:31:27 PM  
Any person who was enslaved should be awarded restitution from the person who violated his rights.

Does anyone here know anyone like that?
 
2014-05-24 11:31:30 PM  
Reparation was paid with the blood of all the men who died on the battle field to end slavery in this country.
 
2014-05-24 11:31:36 PM  

Abox: I'm an American.


And as Americans, we should accept that we live in a country founded on white supremacy, and our behavior then and now reflects this fact.
 
2014-05-24 11:32:50 PM  
<yawn>   Failure to accept responsibility for the failings of the black community by the black community gets tiresome......Yes, the Egyptians paid "reparations" to the Hebrews when the left, it's important to remember that they farkng left....If a large percentage of the African American community offered to leave the country and never return, they'd get a bunch of cash/shiat from White folks....
 
2014-05-24 11:33:30 PM  
Long live the original sin of white liberal guilt. Self-flagellation is fun to watch.
 
2014-05-24 11:33:35 PM  

DubtodaIll: did read it. It doesn't change the fact that any concessions given over the past come from those in power to give those concessions. I don't see how that help anyone achieve greatness or success. It is conceding that you are unable to make yourself happy on your own and that you need the help of those in power to accomplish that.


Well, I'm not going to argue that you didn't read it, then.  I will argue that you're choosing to ignore it.  At no point does he call for direct payments, or anything else in your strawman argument.
 
2014-05-24 11:33:44 PM  
Stop whining already. Slavery happened, can't change the past, get over it, move on. The more you obsess over it, the more it distracts you from getting on with your life.

There will be no reparations.
 
2014-05-24 11:33:45 PM  

Babwa Wawa: Ah, yes. Directly addressed in the article.

I'm sensing a trend here. People don't want to sit down and read something that can't be consumed in less than 60 seconds, yet feel compelled to offer an opinion.


www.american-buddha.com

"Sit down, my son.   We don't read most of the articles. Do you really know what that would entail ... if we were to read every article that was posted on Fark?
 
2014-05-24 11:34:39 PM  
Your ancestors where mean to my ancestors, so now you give me money.
 
2014-05-24 11:35:29 PM  
You could do a soft reparation system with the following policies:

Expanded food stamps program
Increased money for public schools
Increased taxation on property (guess who doesn't have property post 2008 sub-prime crisis)
Subsidies to labor bargaining power through strengthening the legal position of unions (mostly make them easier to form)
More direct hiring by government with an eye towards poorer black ladies (notice who works at the DMV and social security offices)
Rebuild affirmative action through the nominally racially neutral standard of poverty (which in this country is obviously not racially neutral)
Weaken anti drug laws and start commuting sentences in accordance with reduced penalties
 
2014-05-24 11:35:29 PM  
Coates raises a few good points (that racism did not end in 1865/1964/2008), but his overall argument is so weak that it belongs on Slate.

The idea of group-based punishments/rewards, instead of individually tailored justice, is contrary to everything our nation aspires to.  It amounts to giving up on liberalism.  "Well, we gave color-blind society a shot, but we're too innately racist to ever do any better.  Might as start the war for spoils."

If Coates wants to bend society towards that illiberal direction, he will be unpleasantly surprised to discover that other ethnic groups also have grievances, which they feel deserve redress every much as Coates feels anti-black racism deserves redress.  If that game is played, black people will end up doing even worse than they presently are, because they'll be outvoted.
 
2014-05-24 11:35:41 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Abox: I'm an American.

And as Americans, we should accept that we live in a country founded on white supremacy, and our behavior then and now reflects this fact.


Exactly. We can't fix jack shiat until we admit that there's a farking problem, because nothing gets fixed if it can't even be identified as a problem. And look around--there's a big problem that still isn't fixed, and it's starting to fall backwards.
 
2014-05-24 11:35:47 PM  
I would be very concerned about that if I was stabbing any black people.
 
2014-05-24 11:36:23 PM  

Phinn: Any person who was enslaved should be awarded restitution from the person who violated his rights.

Does anyone here know anyone like that?


I'll take that a step further.  While I don't believe any of my American ancestors owned slaves, I can't say for certain.  So I will personally give $1000 to anyone who was held as a slave by on of my ancestors.  I do not think anyone should be punished for "sins of their father", but I'm willing to extend an olive branch here.
 
2014-05-24 11:36:32 PM  

Rincewind53: He also makes powerful points against those who say "But my family only came here in 1900!" Those people are perfectly happy to talk about how awesome George Washington was, how important the Declaration of Rights is, and are happy to take credit for  that aspect of being American. But they refuse to accept any responsibility for any negative aspect of the American experience. T-NC writes of this: "To celebrate freedom and democracy while forgetting America's origins in a slavery economy is patriotism à la carte."


If that's a "powerful point" then the article must be pretty weak. Why should someone (like me) who comes from post-slavery immigrants accept responsibility? I had nothing to do with it. And, should the descendants of black slave-owners pay restitution? What about those who had some ancestors who were slaves and some who were slave owners... should they pay themselves? Heck, let's just tax straight, white males (to cover gender and sexual orientation reparations while we're at it) and call it a day.
 
2014-05-24 11:37:16 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Abox: I'm an American.

And as Americans, we should accept that we live in a country founded on white supremacy, and our behavior then and now reflects this fact.


Fark your white guilt.  I did nothing wrong and I'll be damned if I am forced to pay penance for something I did not do.
 
2014-05-24 11:37:18 PM  
Would a black member of Fark care to chime in here? I'd be appreciative of your take.
 
2014-05-24 11:37:30 PM  
Wrong last link, here is the Moyers interview. Link

Everyone in here who is talking about slavery, or "my family didn't own slaves" or money transfers is way off the point. This is a much broader look.
 
2014-05-24 11:39:12 PM  

OgreMagi: Fark your white guilt.  I did nothing wrong and I'll be damned if I am forced to pay penance for something I did not do.


It's not about me, it's about us as a country. We spent hundreds of years with our boot on the neck of black people. We still do today.
 
2014-05-24 11:40:06 PM  

mark12A: Stop whining already. Slavery happened, can't change the past, get over it, move on. The more you obsess over it, the more it distracts you from getting on with your life.

There will be no reparations.


We can't move on as long as bigoted assholes like Cliven Bundy get shilled by mainstream media outlets.
 
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