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(Microsoft)   If at first you don't succeed, fail more spectacularly. Microsoft announces its Zune™ Tablet Pro 3   (microsoft.com) divider line 91
    More: Fail, Surface Pro, Microsoft, tablets, LVMH, laptops, the Coca-Cola Company  
•       •       •

2400 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 May 2014 at 5:08 PM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



91 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-05-20 02:29:25 PM  
Listen here Apple/Google-fanboi-subby. The Pro denotes a level of tablet excellence you seem to be unaware of.
 
2014-05-20 03:35:53 PM  
I have Zune and I happen to like it!
 
2014-05-20 04:02:21 PM  
I hope they put it out in swamp-water brown again.
 
2014-05-20 05:10:22 PM  
Imma hafta get a nice shoulder tat to celebrate!
 
2014-05-20 05:12:09 PM  
Hoping this brings down the price of the Surface 2 Pro. Been wanting one but just slightly more than I could afford to pay.
 
2014-05-20 05:20:04 PM  
Depending on how the stylus functions, i'll be all over this device. 

Samsung was going to release a 13.3 tablet with stylus that boots both Windows and Android, but Microsoft and Google put a halt to it...

For computer artists, this type of tablet that you can draw right on the screen really fulfills a very specific niche, and if i won't get it from Samsung, i'll take the Windows version.
 
2014-05-20 05:23:35 PM  
Um, subby, the surface is actually very successful, and has displaced Apple's products as the 'default laptop' for student use.  Given that it's primarily advertised as an enterprise-style system, I'd imagine it's doing pretty well in that corner of the market too.

// Its success is why those of us that use desktops instead have to put up with a default windows 8 UI that's essentially useless without a touch-screen and has a window-priority system that makes no goddamned sense outside of a tablet-scale screen.
 
2014-05-20 05:24:13 PM  
I still don't know why it became fashionable to hate on the Zune. It was a great MP3 player. I greatly preferred it over the ipod. Microsoft just didn't know what to do with it or how to market it. I have a first gen, 30 gig HDD Zune that still works perfectly fine to this day, original battery and all. And I spend years using it every single night at work to listen to on my midnight shift to help pass the time as I worked. I've dropped it out of my shirt pocket several times, too.

The Zune hardware and software are both quite good. Especially compared to the limited ipod of the era.

Anyone want to let me in on what it's so fashionable to hate on it? Or is it just ifans kicked the smaller guy while it's down?
 
2014-05-20 05:24:15 PM  
If I can get one that replaces this Lenovo (which isn't half bad) I'll be all over it.
 
2014-05-20 05:24:43 PM  
www.blogcdn.com

Approves
 
2014-05-20 05:29:50 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: Listen here Apple/Google-fanboi-subby. The Pro denotes a level of tablet excellence you seem to be unaware of.


Yep.  But i hesitate to call it a tablet per se.  It is more of a fully functional laptop crammed into a tablet friendly/portable package.
 
2014-05-20 05:34:10 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: Anyone want to let me in on what it's so fashionable to hate on it? Or is it just ifans kicked the smaller guy while it's down?


I don't remember anyone actively hating on the Zune as a product. I'm a Mac user, but I got a hold of a used Zune for a while, thought it was a nice little player. My Mac wouldn't mount it, which is helpful to copy MP3s, so I gave it away in favor of a used Rio that would mount.

I *do* remember everyone wondering what on God's green Earth Microsoft was doing by shooting its "iPod killer" in the foot, thigh and stomach before it was even released. Seriously, the failure of the Zune should be dissected in business schools as a "what not to do" case study.
 
2014-05-20 05:35:02 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: Anyone want to let me in on what it's so fashionable to hate on it? Or is it just ifans kicked the smaller guy while it's down?


It's not so much the device itself as that it was in most respects a financial and PR failure.  They tried to carve out a niche in the MP3-player market, and it failed.  Then they tried to adapt it sideways into the smartphone market, and it kinda-succeeded but extremely underwhelmingly, carving out a stable but tiny market-sliver instead of the reasonable bite out of the pie that was promised to investors.

Essentially, you're only confused by this because you've got a thing that works and appear to be ignorant of the extremely well-known context.  You're essentially the guy in the mid-'90s with a Betamax player saying, "what?  It works just fine, y'all are just being haters".
 
2014-05-20 05:36:28 PM  
Still in the working realm of words and pictures, but I need the ten key to get any work done. Still just toys for people who think it's cool to wipe their screens with greasy fingers.

Now, if M$ would just make a batch of the 6000 Laser Mice again, I'd be happy. The only mouse large enough to be comfortable in my XXL hands, and my old one has a coat of grime.
 
2014-05-20 05:37:23 PM  
I hate tablets.

However, I do like mini-notebooks; what used to be called a "netbook".

If it has a hardware keyboard, it ain't a tablet.
 
2014-05-20 05:43:08 PM  
Can someone confirm, I thought the regular Surface (x86) is doing just OK, while the RT is costing MS?

I happen to like the Surface Pro. It is a little expensive, though.
 
2014-05-20 05:49:19 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Essentially, you're only confused by this because you've got a thing that works and appear to be ignorant of the extremely well-known context.  You're essentially the guy in the mid-'90s with a Betamax player saying, "what?  It works just fine, y'all are just being haters".


Not at all. I'm very aware that Microsoft royally screwed up with the marketing and direction of it. I even said just that. The hate on it never seems to be about MS and their ineptitude, but on the product itself.

And the Betamax failed because they tried to stay all holy and pure while VHS was A-OK with it being used for porn. Betamax is the superior format, regardless. I don't hear or see people making fun of that, though.

It's not like Sony and their minidisc player that just never farking worked. I got one of those for free. Awful, awful little thing.

theorellior: I *do* remember everyone wondering what on God's green Earth Microsoft was doing by shooting its "iPod killer" in the foot, thigh and stomach before it was even released. Seriously, the failure of the Zune should be dissected in business schools as a "what not to do" case study.


Agreed. Another example would be Sony and the rootkit bullshiat.
 
2014-05-20 05:52:41 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: It's not like Sony and their minidisc player that just never farking worked. I got one of those for free. Awful, awful little thing.


Funny thing, Sharp licensed that technology and it worked pretty well. I used a little Sharp Minidisc player as a cheap digital recording setup for band practices in the early 2000s. That was before the flash memory revolution made physical media a thing of the past.
 
2014-05-20 06:01:57 PM  
Intel® Core™ i3, 64 GB  and 4 GB of RAM $799
Intel® Core™ i5, 128 GB7 and 4 GB of RAM $999
Intel® Core™ i5, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,299
Intel® Core™ i7, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,549
Intel® Core™ i7, 512 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,949

I think I'll pass.
 
2014-05-20 06:03:50 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Um, subby, the surface is actually very successful


Successful at causing inventory write downs?
 
2014-05-20 06:09:55 PM  

BlackPete: Intel® Core™ i3, 64 GB  and 4 GB of RAM $799
Intel® Core™ i5, 128 GB7 and 4 GB of RAM $999
Intel® Core™ i5, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,299
Intel® Core™ i7, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,549
Intel® Core™ i7, 512 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,949

I think I'll pass.


Holy crap, I thought you were kidding.
 
2014-05-20 06:12:18 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: Betamax is the superior format, regardless.


Superior picture. Inferior product.

It couldn't record a whole football game, or the whole soap opera block.

VHS could do what people wanted to do with the product. That made it superior.
 
2014-05-20 06:13:59 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Um, subby, the surface is actually very successful, and has displaced Apple's products as the 'default laptop' for student use.  Given that it's primarily advertised as an enterprise-style system, I'd imagine it's doing pretty well in that corner of the market too.

// Its success is why those of us that use desktops instead have to put up with a default windows 8 UI that's essentially useless without a touch-screen and has a window-priority system that makes no goddamned sense outside of a tablet-scale screen.


I wouldn't say the Surface has been very successful. The first Surface was a failure in terms of sales, but the second one did alright for itself. They came nowhere near close to selling as many Surface 2 tablets as Apple sells iPads. Their best move was canning the Surface RT and just making a Surface 3 Pro. They can't seem to compete on the low end, so they might as well go for the high end and compete with laptops. I think they have a chance there.

However, as a college professor, my experience is that I've seen very few Surfaces of any kind. For those students, the choice was not Macbook (or iPad) or Surface, it was Surface or other Windows laptop. If they wanted a Mac, they bought a Mac. Your experience may vary.

Incidentally, we have to put up with the Windows 8 UI on the desktop not because of the Surface directly, but because of Microsoft's insistence that one thing can be made to serve all use cases. If it can, they sure don't know how.
 
2014-05-20 06:14:14 PM  

BlackPete: Intel® Core™ i3, 64 GB  and 4 GB of RAM $799
Intel® Core™ i5, 128 GB7 and 4 GB of RAM $999
Intel® Core™ i5, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,299
Intel® Core™ i7, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,549
Intel® Core™ i7, 512 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,949

I think I'll pass.


Due to the corporate nature of these devices there are a lot of companies who will pay for a portion of the device.

It makes them much more palatable. Plus these really are notebook replacements and not iPad/Nexus replacements.
Mostly a different market. Though there is some overlap as iOS and Android become more feature rich.
 
2014-05-20 06:15:34 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: It's not like Sony and their minidisc player that just never farking worked. I got one of those for free. Awful, awful little thing.


The minidisc was awesome.

/still have a player that works
//failed product tho
 
2014-05-20 06:15:38 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: I still don't know why it became fashionable to hate on the Zune. It was a great MP3 player. I greatly preferred it over the ipod. Microsoft just didn't know what to do with it or how to market it. I have a first gen, 30 gig HDD Zune that still works perfectly fine to this day, original battery and all. And I spend years using it every single night at work to listen to on my midnight shift to help pass the time as I worked. I've dropped it out of my shirt pocket several times, too.

The Zune hardware and software are both quite good. Especially compared to the limited ipod of the era.

Anyone want to let me in on what it's so fashionable to hate on it? Or is it just ifans kicked the smaller guy while it's down?


Residual hate of 1990s MS and lingering bad feelings from the era when a whole Internet of security vulnerabilities overwhelmed XP, same as almost everything else.
 
2014-05-20 06:21:04 PM  

Virtual Pariah: Plus these really are notebook replacements and not iPad/Nexus replacements.


Actually, they are notebooks with a shiatty yet expensive keyboard/trackpad that detaches.

The same problem the last two versions had.
 
2014-05-20 06:25:30 PM  

gingerjet: CtrlAltDestroy: It's not like Sony and their minidisc player that just never farking worked. I got one of those for free. Awful, awful little thing.

The minidisc was awesome.

/still have a player that works
//failed product tho


I also have a Sony Minidisc player.  In addition to my Zune.

I'm anti-trend.
 
2014-05-20 06:26:50 PM  

theorellior: Funny thing, Sharp licensed that technology and it worked pretty well. I used a little Sharp Minidisc player as a cheap digital recording setup for band practices in the early 2000s. That was before the flash memory revolution made physical media a thing of the past.


gingerjet: The minidisc was awesome.

/still have a player that works
//failed product tho


Huh. Maybe I just have a crappy one. Cool.
 
2014-05-20 06:36:54 PM  

BlackPete: Intel® Core™ i3, 64 GB  and 4 GB of RAM $799
Intel® Core™ i5, 128 GB7 and 4 GB of RAM $999
Intel® Core™ i5, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,299
Intel® Core™ i7, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,549
Intel® Core™ i7, 512 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,949

I think I'll pass.


I'll grab the second one and a gen two type cove(yes they fit) or  full sized BT keyboard with built in trackpad
 
2014-05-20 06:41:46 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: BlackPete: Intel® Core™ i3, 64 GB  and 4 GB of RAM $799
Intel® Core™ i5, 128 GB7 and 4 GB of RAM $999
Intel® Core™ i5, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,299
Intel® Core™ i7, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,549
Intel® Core™ i7, 512 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,949

I think I'll pass.

I'll grab the second one and a gen two type cove(yes they fit) or  full sized BT keyboard with built in trackpad


OK.  Just go ahead and post your credit card information to the thread and it should be delivered on Friday.
 
2014-05-20 06:45:14 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: Huh. Maybe I just have a crappy one. Cool.


From what I recall, Sony was worse than Microsoft in handling the technology release. I remember Minidisc being trotted out in like 1994 (along with Philip's Digital Compact Cassette) as a recordable digital medium to compete with (then) read-only CDs, but the compression algorithm they used had nasty artifacts. It wasn't until 1997 or 1998 they invented a compression system that didn't sound like ass.
 
2014-05-20 06:49:08 PM  
Zune. The fail must flow.
 
2014-05-20 06:49:37 PM  

Flying Code Monkey: CtrlAltDestroy: I still don't know why it became fashionable to hate on the Zune. It was a great MP3 player. I greatly preferred it over the ipod. Microsoft just didn't know what to do with it or how to market it. I have a first gen, 30 gig HDD Zune that still works perfectly fine to this day, original battery and all. And I spend years using it every single night at work to listen to on my midnight shift to help pass the time as I worked. I've dropped it out of my shirt pocket several times, too.

The Zune hardware and software are both quite good. Especially compared to the limited ipod of the era.

Anyone want to let me in on what it's so fashionable to hate on it? Or is it just ifans kicked the smaller guy while it's down?

Residual hate of 1990s MS and lingering bad feelings from the era when a whole Internet of security vulnerabilities overwhelmed XP, same as almost everything else.


That really is it. And Apple gets a pass due to residual goodwill from the 90s, back when they were the underdog innovator, even though now they're just another giant anticompetitive corporation.

This thing looks pretty cool, don't think I'd shell out $1,500 for an i7. I still use my Pro 1 all the time, love that little thing.
 
2014-05-20 06:50:52 PM  

MindStalker: Hoping this brings down the price of the Surface 2 Pro. Been wanting one but just slightly more than I could afford to pay.


me too, though i need to get more then one, my wifes laptop is getting a little long in the tooth
 
2014-05-20 06:51:47 PM  

BullBearMS: Virtual Pariah: Plus these really are notebook replacements and not iPad/Nexus replacements.

Actually, they are notebooks with a shiatty yet expensive keyboard/trackpad that detaches.

The same problem the last two versions had.


the keyboards for the surface are great. Have you ever used one? It is identical to a smaller laptop keyboard, except it is super thin and can be detached for those times when a keyboard serves no function.

I have yet to find any fault with my surface RT or Surface Pro 2. I have a VevoTab Smart as well, but ASUS dropped the ball with their keyboard design and the lack of a kick stand is frustrating when you are used to having one.

Surface family of devices are home computing perfection.

/Also have an older galaxy tab and an ipad mini.
 
2014-05-20 06:55:02 PM  

SumoJeb: Surface family of devices are home computing perfection. tm


FTFY.  What marketing position at Microsoft do you hold?
 
2014-05-20 06:56:12 PM  

BlackPete: Intel® Core™ i3, 64 GB  and 4 GB of RAM $799
Intel® Core™ i5, 128 GB7 and 4 GB of RAM $999
Intel® Core™ i5, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,299
Intel® Core™ i7, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,549
Intel® Core™ i7, 512 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,949

I think I'll pass.


---If they want to make inroads in selling it, they should have offered another i3 model with 128GB at $999 instead of having two i7s at the high end.  Microsoft should know its strong suit and stay in the low and middle end.  Are they also going to be pushing for people to upload to the cloud like Apple & Google?
 
2014-05-20 07:03:40 PM  

SumoJeb: the keyboards for the surface are great.


That's not what Anand at Anandtech says.

Using the integrated trackpad on previous Surface covers was an exercise in madness that got mildly better last generation.

So by great, you mean shiatty and expensive?
 
2014-05-20 07:04:02 PM  

gingerjet: SumoJeb: Surface family of devices are home computing perfection. tm

FTFY.  What marketing position at Microsoft do you hold?


I don't think MS hires many fishing / hunting guides hahaha.  I guess I would be considered a MS fanboi.  I'm just happy to finally have a device that satisfies all my needs.

One complaint with the RT is the shiat cameras they put in them. They really cheaped out on those. A tablet with a 20+ mp camera and quality imaging sensor would be great.
 
2014-05-20 07:07:37 PM  

BullBearMS: SumoJeb: the keyboards for the surface are great.

That's not what Anand at Anandtech says.

Using the integrated trackpad on previous Surface covers was an exercise in madness that got mildly better last generation.

So by great, you mean shiatty and expensive?



I got a gen 2 cover / keyboard for $50 at christmas. I've never had problems with the trackpad. I wouldnt try playing a FPS with it, but it's as good as any trackpad on a conventional laptop.
 
2014-05-20 07:13:26 PM  

SumoJeb: BullBearMS: SumoJeb: the keyboards for the surface are great.

That's not what Anand at Anandtech says.

Using the integrated trackpad on previous Surface covers was an exercise in madness that got mildly better last generation.

So by great, you mean shiatty and expensive?


I got a gen 2 cover / keyboard for $50 at christmas. I've never had problems with the trackpad. I wouldnt try playing a FPS with it, but it's as good as any trackpad on a conventional laptop.


No. It's not.

There is simply no reason to spend a good deal more than you would on an ultrabook only to be forced to put up with a shiatty, expensive input device.

The same problem this device has had from right from the start.
 
2014-05-20 07:16:45 PM  
I have a 32Gig Zune HD and have been quite happy with it. Was surprised that MS killed the Zune so soon after they dropped the HDs. Metro is a pleasure to use on it, to - but I'm avoiding Windows 8 because of it.
 
2014-05-20 07:21:51 PM  

BullBearMS: SumoJeb: BullBearMS: SumoJeb: the keyboards for the surface are great.

That's not what Anand at Anandtech says.

Using the integrated trackpad on previous Surface covers was an exercise in madness that got mildly better last generation.

So by great, you mean shiatty and expensive?


I got a gen 2 cover / keyboard for $50 at christmas. I've never had problems with the trackpad. I wouldnt try playing a FPS with it, but it's as good as any trackpad on a conventional laptop.

No. It's not.

There is simply no reason to spend a good deal more than you would on an ultrabook only to be forced to put up with a shiatty, expensive input device.

The same problem this device has had from right from the start.



Show me an ultrabook with similar battery life, weight and dimensions that costs $250. That is what my surface RT cost - including the keyboard.
 
2014-05-20 07:22:18 PM  
natgab:

---If they want to make inroads in selling it, they should have offered another i3 model with 128GB at $999 instead of having two i7s at the high end.

I'm just not seeing the need for an i7 in this device.  I was passing on the SP2 and waiting for the SP3 to replace my iPad.  I'd have been on board for an i3 and 128 GB.  My needs in a portable device aren't that CPU-intensive and when I do need grunt well, I'll wait the few extra seconds.  I suppose I'll get the i5/128 and grumble as it roasts my nuts.
 
2014-05-20 07:24:23 PM  

natgab: BlackPete: Intel® Core™ i3, 64 GB  and 4 GB of RAM $799
Intel® Core™ i5, 128 GB7 and 4 GB of RAM $999
Intel® Core™ i5, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,299
Intel® Core™ i7, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,549
Intel® Core™ i7, 512 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,949

I think I'll pass.

---If they want to make inroads in selling it, they should have offered another i3 model with 128GB at $999 instead of having two i7s at the high end.  Microsoft should know its strong suit and stay in the low and middle end.  Are they also going to be pushing for people to upload to the cloud like Apple & Google?


They give you like 200GB of OneDrive space for 2 years if you purchase a Surface Pro. So yes.


While I only have a Surface RT, I really like it. I would have gotten the pro if it was a bit cheaper.
 
2014-05-20 07:28:26 PM  

SumoJeb: Show me an ultrabook with similar battery life, weight and dimensions that costs $250. That is what my surface RT cost - including the keyboard.


We're not discussing the Surface RT fire sale after all the inventory write downs.

We're talking about a device where the cheapest you can get out is over nine hundred bucks.

Then you still have to put up with an input device the most important techie website calls "an exercise in madness" to use.

Any sane person would just buy an ultrabook and be done with it.
 
2014-05-20 07:30:20 PM  

natgab: BlackPete: Intel® Core™ i3, 64 GB  and 4 GB of RAM $799
Intel® Core™ i5, 128 GB7 and 4 GB of RAM $999
Intel® Core™ i5, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,299
Intel® Core™ i7, 256 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,549
Intel® Core™ i7, 512 GB7 and 8 GB of RAM $1,949

I think I'll pass.

---If they want to make inroads in selling it, they should have offered another i3 model with 128GB at $999 instead of having two i7s at the high end.  Microsoft should know its strong suit and stay in the low and middle end.  Are they also going to be pushing for people to upload to the cloud like Apple & Google?

Yeah but this tab has a full sized SD card slot along with a full USB 3.0.
 
2014-05-20 07:32:05 PM  

SumoJeb: BullBearMS: SumoJeb: the keyboards for the surface are great.

That's not what Anand at Anandtech says.

Using the integrated trackpad on previous Surface covers was an exercise in madness that got mildly better last generation.

So by great, you mean shiatty and expensive?


I got a gen 2 cover / keyboard for $50 at christmas. I've never had problems with the trackpad. I wouldnt try playing a FPS with it, but it's as good as any trackpad on a conventional laptop.


---What kind of USB / SD card plugs does it have?  Since everybody complains the iPads only have the one Apple connector, did Microsoft at least get that part right?

I use a desktop Mac but switched to Thinkpad because I hate how Apple went to sealed / glued laptops with glossy screens.  I wish they could have kept the upgradability as a premium for getting pro versions of the laptops like the old ones.
 
2014-05-20 07:40:47 PM  

BullBearMS: SumoJeb: Show me an ultrabook with similar battery life, weight and dimensions that costs $250. That is what my surface RT cost - including the keyboard.

We're not discussing the Surface RT fire sale after all the inventory write downs.

We're talking about a device where the cheapest you can get out is over nine hundred bucks.

Then you still have to put up with an input device the most important techie website calls "an exercise in madness" to use.

Any sane person would just buy an ultrabook and be done with it.


The touch or type cover?
 
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