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(Computerworld)   October 2012 - Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer 'bets the company' on Windows 8. May 2014 - Surface (RT) has lost at least $1.2 billion, plus its CEO, and counting. How would we live in a world without any Microsoft products?   ( computerworld.com) divider line
    More: Strange, Ballmer, window, CEO, Microsoft, Surface RT, counts, tablets, reverse transcriptases  
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1047 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 May 2014 at 10:41 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-20 08:48:11 AM  
No more Halo.
 
2014-05-20 09:14:11 AM  
Surface RT sucks, Surface Pro (and Pro 2) are fantastic machines. Say what you will about the Metro UI, but Win8 really isn't that bad once you start to use it.

/yes, I'm a convert
//always loved the Win7/8 phone OSes though
 
2014-05-20 10:20:18 AM  

InterruptingQuirk: No more Halo.


And nothing of value was lost.
 
2014-05-20 10:43:20 AM  
How would we live in a world without any Microsoft products?

We'd pick another company to be the new Microsoft.
 
2014-05-20 10:47:57 AM  

sendtodave: We'd pick another company to be the new Microsoft.


Probably Google
 
2014-05-20 10:50:59 AM  
So where's the major price cut on the Surface Pro?  I'd probably buy 1 (or 2... hell maybe 3, I got kids) if there was a very compelling financial reason to move away from the "everybody including my mother" knows how to use iPad to something else.

I guess it makes a perverse sort of sense if your interested in not giving people the expectation that  you can buy a completely functional tablet for anything less than $600.
 
2014-05-20 10:51:44 AM  

somedude210: Surface RT sucks, Surface Pro (and Pro 2) are fantastic machines. Say what you will about the Metro UI, but Win8 really isn't that bad once you start to use it.

/yes, I'm a convert
//always loved the Win7/8 phone OSes though


I upgraded my desktop to Win 8 after the 8.1 patch. I like it a lot.
 
2014-05-20 10:52:54 AM  
I think I'd be okay. Most of the games I play anymore on my PC are so old they already require DOSBox or a VM. I'm proficient in Linux on both the desktop and server and my phone is Android as is my tablet.

I don't have any current gen consoles and the only MS gaming product I ever bought was an original XBox, used. I think I'd manage without them.

somedude210: Say what you will about the Metro UI, but Win8 really isn't that bad once you start to use it.


It's passable on touch devices. It's still not as good as Apple or Android's mobile UIs, but it's also a lot younger and I think over time it could get there. My problem is the price. At $1000-$1800 I have a REALLY hard time justifying the purchase. It may be slightly less convenient, but I can do just as much, if not more, with a $400 laptop and a $200 tablet. And the original Pro ain't cutting it as a replacement for both of those with that paltry SSD and battery it comes with.
 
2014-05-20 10:59:56 AM  
I was looking at tablets a few days ago... and the best deal was a Surface Pro machine.

If I was to get another tablet, I'd probably go with that one, as I just have no interest in either Apple or Android and there's yet for anything else to really amaze me at this point.

Ubuntu Mobile looked promising but I've yet to see it happen.
 
2014-05-20 11:01:53 AM  
Good luck with that. I've lived long enough to watch Microsoft receive the same abuse IBM, and Lotus, and Ashton-Tate, used to receive. Remember IBM? "Intentionally Broken Machines", anyone? No one remembers Ashton-Tate, unless you grew up trying to get DBase III and IV working. Lotus? Yeah, trying to get Lotus Notes functional on a consistent basis was enough to make a network admin hang himself by his own coax. Everyone likes to slam Microsoft, but the simple fact is that the world you know wouldn't exist without Microsoft, and IBM, and Lotus, and Ashton-Tate, and other large companies that, although they made the occasional misstep, pioneered the idea of a consistent, workable end-to-end set of technologies or products.

I love the premise that "OMG, a mistake was made - will the company DIE!?" Really? The only thing less dependable across releases than a Linux-based product is a Linux-based business apps developer - always chasing the new, happy to abandon the existing, and conveniently forgetting about the old, because maintenance is always somebody else's problem and, hell, it's your product, so why worry about feature creep or deprecation policy? It's not like they can't change the source code themselves if they don't like it, right? Assuming that the entire world can code is like assuming that the entire world can rebuild an engine, or redesign a house - but, that's what you get more often than not with open source products. Stuff written by devs, for devs, with little real consideration of non-dev users.

That world? That world doesn't make it out of the garage. Some products might (and have), but usually through martyrdom, mania, or monetization. The first is ignored, the second is encouraged, and the third is reviled - usually by the first and second, who treat it as "selling out." Bizarre. Imagine trying to run a mission-critical secure application on such products. Oh, wait - I don't have to imagine, as I've watched its heart bleed on the entire Web. ("Heart bleed!" Get it!?) Yeah, I'm looking so forward to taking a 25-year step backwards, once again having to cobble together "solutions" that barely work, and only because I'm stuck babysitting them like a brooding hen day in and day out.

Yeah, Microsoft, and IBM, and Google, and others have their flaws - but I'll take that world now over the computing world of 1988 any day of the friggin' week.

CSB: I'm working at an open source shop right now, as a programmer/writer. I won't talk about the product, because that would be enough to identify me - all I can say is that they're dealing with a confusing mess of half-baked technologies, glued together and working only because they're constantly monitored and hotfixed by a team that didn't actually write the product, because many of the folks who assembled this Frankenstein's monster have left rather than actually keep it alive beyond release.
 
2014-05-20 11:04:02 AM  
You'd have to decide on an IBM system, an Amiga system, a Mac, and what were some of the other OS flavors out there at the time?
 
2014-05-20 11:17:09 AM  
With their assets totaling over $120B, while people have lost their job over blunders at MS, it isn't like the company is going full HP. Never go full HP.
 
2014-05-20 11:18:14 AM  
Every other tech site have known for two days that there is no Surface mini coming out today. They are making a larger Surface Pro. Microsoft needs to say fark the other OEMs and sell the damn thing at a cheaper price. I'll pay $600 for a decent specked Pro.
/when they do release the mini they need to make it around $200 or it won't sell, since you can a get a 8" full Windows 8 tablet for under $300 right now.
 
2014-05-20 11:32:54 AM  
wellbye.jpg
 
2014-05-20 11:33:52 AM  

RoxtarRyan: With their assets totaling over $120B, while people have lost their job over blunders at MS, it isn't like the company is going full HP. Never go full HP.


So that would involve taking down at least how many other companies?
Companies HP has killed by acquisition and squander
Compaq
Palm
Voodoo PC


they should have never sold out
 
2014-05-20 11:36:25 AM  
We'd form a kickstarter to buy the rights to the Elite keyboard and $9.00 Microsoft optical mice.
The Elite keyboard would finally be available in black.

Other than that, we'd be forced to clean up Linux for the masses and/or try to get Apple interested in making desktops again.

//my two cents
 
2014-05-20 11:36:48 AM  

FormlessOne: I love the premise that "OMG, a mistake was made - will the company DIE!?" Really?


You're missing the bigger picture, which is that their attempts to branch out into hardware have flopped because they've failed to convince Windows users to stay in the Windows ecosystem with all of their other devices (where as OSX users pretty much all use Apple phones and tablets). It's a problem when they don't understand that nobody cares about running the full version of office on a tablet.
 
2014-05-20 11:38:05 AM  
 
2014-05-20 11:40:15 AM  
I never got the "It cost to much" argument for the Surface Pro.  Find me an ultrabook with similar specs for less, I'm sure you can find one but it's not going to be much cheaper or it is going to be garbage.  RT has been a failure, I almost think MS keeps making RT tablets just to make Metro try to work.  RT alone is not very useful and should be compared to Android and iOS devices.  The Surface Pro should not be compared to either.
 
2014-05-20 11:43:58 AM  

FormlessOne: Good luck with that. I've lived long enough to watch Microsoft receive the same abuse IBM, and Lotus, and Ashton-Tate, used to receive. Remember IBM? "Intentionally Broken Machines", anyone? No one remembers Ashton-Tate, unless you grew up trying to get DBase III and IV working. Lotus? Yeah, trying to get Lotus Notes functional on a consistent basis was enough to make a network admin hang himself by his own coax. Everyone likes to slam Microsoft, but the simple fact is that the world you know wouldn't exist without Microsoft, and IBM, and Lotus, and Ashton-Tate, and other large companies that, although they made the occasional misstep, pioneered the idea of a consistent, workable end-to-end set of technologies or products.


This part of what you said is true. Absolutely. Mindlessly bashing microsoft is silly.

The rest though... the rest doesn't seem very grounded in reality. You have some valid criticisms in there, but there are reasons that sooooooo much of the web runs on Linux. One is price... you don't have to account for licensing costs when you go from 2 machines to 20, or when you decide to separate your DNS server from your mail server, etc. You just do it. Also removing the licensing cost from cloud-based architecture has enabled that entire market. There would be no Netflix without it. Yes, you can get Windows cloud servers, but I don't really want to sit down and sift through software licenses every time I add a server. Another is consistency... many of the Linux/Unix/GNU tools have gradually improved since before I was born. Yes, I use sudo now instead of su, and I use `service` instead of /etc/init.d/ but those are gradual changes I can get used to over the course of years at a time. "Ubuntu Server 2013" isn't such an overhaul from "Ubuntu Server 2008" that I have to send sysadmins through a training course to relearn shiat. We just gradually upgraded as we can through the years. So yeah, I think Google, Netflix, and Amazon would all take issue with the "that world doesn't make it out of the garage" statement.
 
2014-05-20 11:49:06 AM  

somedude210: Surface RT sucks, Surface Pro (and Pro 2) are fantastic machines. Say what you will about the Metro UI, but Win8 really isn't that bad once you start to use it.

/yes, I'm a convert
//always loved the Win7/8 phone OSes though


Surface RT was an incredibly stupid decision. It wasn't differentiated enough from Surface Pro or Windows Phone. More importantly, it was a third development target - now you had to develop for Surface RT, Windows 8 Desktop, and Windows Phone.

Why didn't they give Surface RT the ability to run Windows Phone apps? That would've helped a lot. One of the reasons why the iPad did so well is because it had a large software library at launch, thanks to its iPhone/iPod compatibility.
 
2014-05-20 11:50:37 AM  

thornhill: FormlessOne: I love the premise that "OMG, a mistake was made - will the company DIE!?" Really?

You're missing the bigger picture, which is that their attempts to branch out into hardware have flopped because they've failed to convince Windows users to stay in the Windows ecosystem with all of their other devices (where as OSX users pretty much all use Apple phones and tablets). It's a problem when they don't understand that nobody cares about running the full version of office on a tablet.


Personally I will be updating to a Nokia Lumia Icon for my next phone.  I've been having more and more issues with Android.  Apps not working while the same apps working on friends phones.  Androids greatest strength is its biggest weakness, to many versions that OEM's, and carriers have changed Android to their liking. I hate iOS, mostly for having to support it for years and the whole "it just works" BS because iOS doesn't just work but like the idea of a unified platform.  My friend has a Windows phone, while lacking some apps it has 90% of what I need.  Also after reading about the positive reviews about 8.1 made me want to switch more.  I'll be waiting till June until the Icon is sold with 8.1 before purchasing though.  I will however miss some apps I paid for on Android but they will still work fine on my Nexus 7.
 
2014-05-20 11:53:10 AM  

Fizpez: So where's the major price cut on the Surface Pro?  I'd probably buy 1 (or 2... hell maybe 3, I got kids) if there was a very compelling financial reason to move away from the "everybody including my mother" knows how to use iPad to something else.

I guess it makes a perverse sort of sense if your interested in not giving people the expectation that  you can buy a completely functional tablet for anything less than $600.


Right before the Surface Pro 2 came out they cut the price of the Pro 1 to $399 at Best Buy.
 
2014-05-20 12:03:46 PM  

sendtodave: How would we live in a world without any Microsoft products?

We'd pick another company to be the new Microsoft.


Clearly, some other company would have to take its place. Some other company currently making billions of dollars, a competing operating system, a successful mobile and tablet platform...
 
2014-05-20 12:04:27 PM  
I love my Surface RT. I sold my iPad because the Surface does the job better for my needs.

Windows 8.1 is fine, but then I liked Windows 8 from launch onward. It's only the complete pussies who couldn't adapt that continue to complain about it.

But the Windows App Store has improved over the past couple years, and there's really no program I'm missing on the RT. Even if there is something I want to do that isn't supported, I can always use Remote Desktop to connect to my desktop PC at home and run ANY program on it. Games even work that way, though with a tiny lag.

I had an ASUS T100, but it was chunky, squeaky, and had an awful keyboard and touch screen. The Surface RT has a fantastic screen, and the Type Cover 2 has regular-sized backlit keys. It's awesome for my work and other needs.

As for gaming, there are plenty of games in the Windows App Store, and the emulators for RT are all really great. I can play lots of console games on the RT, and it has native support for Xbox 360 controllers (though the touch screen is really responsive if I just want to play like a normal tablet, and the Type Cover works fine for gaming, too).

I picked up my 64GB Surface RT for under $230. It was WELL worth it at that price. I  found the Type Cover 2 online (refurbished) for under $50. All told, I paid LESS than I did for that ASUS T100 and got a better system, in my opinion. The only way the ASUS beats the Surface RT is in the ability to run legacy x86 apps, but after a while owning the ASUS, I wasn't finding much I needed to run on the desktop because the touch-enabled Windows RT apps were covering all my needed functions. It's not like I'm doing any video editing on this thing (though I could)... I don't need to run Handbrake or a full-featured Photoshop. I've got image viewing and editing, MS Office, video playback, music playback, games, torrent download and VPN support, emulators, support for external storage media and optical drives, printing, Outlook calendars and email support, drawing apps, streaming media apps, and PLEX for my local media server. The browser handles Java, Flash, Silverlight, etc. too, so I can go to the Hulu website instead of needing a Hulu Plus app (though that's there, too), and I can go to my work website and actually get it to function, unlike on Android or iOS.

I really can't think of anything I'm missing on the RT version that I would need on the go. My iPhone makes up for any app store mini-apps that aren't present on Windows RT, but I rarely need those aside from stupid things like Gas Buddy, my bank's app, or barcode scanners.

I was looking for a laptop replacement that could function as a 10" touch-screen tablet, and the Surface RT has hit all the marks it needed to. Microsoft's biggest errors with the Surface RT were that the initial pricing was OUTRAGEOUSLY high, and they released it before making sure the Windows App Store had a sufficient number of decent RT-capable apps. BOTH situations have since changed, and I can't rave enough about how nice the hardware is now that I've finally gotten my hands on it.

Would I prefer a Pro or Surface 2? Sure. But they're still quite pricey, and not worth the upgrade for me at this point. Again, I have a very nice desktop PC, and with Surface RT I can always just hop on there with Remote Desktop, and I have all the functions that are "missing" in RT. That alone makes it worth the price.
 
2014-05-20 12:11:33 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: drjekel_mrhyde: They are making a larger Surface Pro.

Yeap http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-announces-surface-pro-3


OH snap. If this cuts the price of the Pro 2 like the Pro 1 was cut, I'm totally in.

/Been looking for an excuse to get one, they are snazzy machines.
 
2014-05-20 12:22:46 PM  
Oh why split between x86 and ARM and create two incompatible ecosystems? Annoying. Why create an OS that is sort of split between the old desktop and the new Metro?

No RT, Metro for tablets/phone/hybrid laptops and a continuation of Win7 for desktops/corporate would have been sufficient.
 
2014-05-20 12:23:14 PM  

FormlessOne: Assuming that the entire world can code is like assuming that the entire world can rebuild an engine


This is the two-stroke principle. Two-stroke engines can be maintained by their users. They are small and smoky and you have to mix the fuel and oil together. They foul plugs. They only have a few hp. But they run much of the world, and are out there in the millions. There are millions of people who work on them in a non-professional capacity.

It's not too much to ask that computer enthusiasts learn how to program.
 
2014-05-20 12:28:50 PM  
For anyone that doesn't understand what sets the Surface Pro apart from everything else out there:

cdn.pocketnow.com

/built in Wacom digitizer
 
2014-05-20 12:40:41 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: For anyone that doesn't understand what sets the Surface Pro apart from everything else out there:

[cdn.pocketnow.com image 780x584]

/built in Wacom digitizer


Engineers do not care for your art.
 
2014-05-20 01:06:14 PM  

Fizpez: So where's the major price cut on the Surface Pro?  I'd probably buy 1 (or 2... hell maybe 3, I got kids) if there was a very compelling financial reason to move away from the "everybody including my mother" knows how to use iPad to something else.

I guess it makes a perverse sort of sense if your interested in not giving people the expectation that  you can buy a completely functional tablet for anything less than $600.


That $600 more than adequately covers the hidden "app tax" of apple or android devices. To make those machines functional, you need to purchase software, and lots of it. Surface runs windows apps, and there are *tons* of free and fully functional apps that exist for windows already. I haven't spent a dime on apps (minus games) and I can get done everything I want to.
 
2014-05-20 01:13:40 PM  

Nix Nightbird: I picked up my 64GB Surface RT for under $230. It was WELL worth it at that price. I found the Type Cover 2 online (refurbished) for under $50. All told, I paid LESS than I did for that ASUS T100 and got a better system, in my opinion.


I got an Asus VivoTab RT (right after they discontinued it because of weak sales) with battery/keyboard for $300, and it's amazing for what it does.  I had it in the hospital with me last year without a charger, and it lasted a week of use without a recharge, including writing up a doc in genuine Word format, writing up a spreadsheet in genuine Excel format, and Farking. I bought extra keyboard bases and chargers so I'd only have to move the tablet part around.

On the other hand, I could watch Netflix, but not Amazon Prime because I couldn't install the Silverlight plug-in to IE.  I couldn't take screenshots with the tiny graphics program I've literally been using since Windows NT 3.51, because it wasn't digitally-signed by MSFT.  Nor could I work on the vbscript files I was editing the day before going to the hospital, because I couldn't launch the text editor I've been using since 1998 because it wasn't digitally-signed by MSFT.  Nurses and phlebotomists would come in and love the form factor of the slim, light device, and I'd spend five minutes telling them why it was awful.

My current complaint with Windows 8 isn't the UI, or even the full-screen Metro apps.  It's that their patching mentality is that of someone offering people Hobson's Choice on patching.  Their last 8.1 update was supposed to be mandatory to receive any future patches, and yet the 8.1 update has many serious unresolved problems that render your system unbootable.  That may fly in a world of Windows Phones, but that dog don't hunt on business desktops.  And Windows business desktops favor Windows business servers, which is where much of MSFT's current profit comes from, which is also where my salary comes from.  Apparently whoever is in charge of Windows 8 - assuming there is someone in charge - doesn't get this.
 
2014-05-20 01:13:41 PM  

xkillyourfacex: Fizpez: So where's the major price cut on the Surface Pro?  I'd probably buy 1 (or 2... hell maybe 3, I got kids) if there was a very compelling financial reason to move away from the "everybody including my mother" knows how to use iPad to something else.

I guess it makes a perverse sort of sense if your interested in not giving people the expectation that  you can buy a completely functional tablet for anything less than $600.

That $600 more than adequately covers the hidden "app tax" of apple or android devices. To make those machines functional, you need to purchase software, and lots of it. Surface runs windows apps, and there are *tons* of free and fully functional apps that exist for windows already. I haven't spent a dime on apps (minus games) and I can get done everything I want to.


Really? I can do everything I wanted with my iPad through free software like Celtx, Evernote, and Google Docs and a bluetooth keyboard/case ($40). I think I haven't paid more than a total of $75 for apps, including all games.
 
2014-05-20 01:18:10 PM  

diggumsmax: thornhill: FormlessOne: I love the premise that "OMG, a mistake was made - will the company DIE!?" Really?

You're missing the bigger picture, which is that their attempts to branch out into hardware have flopped because they've failed to convince Windows users to stay in the Windows ecosystem with all of their other devices (where as OSX users pretty much all use Apple phones and tablets). It's a problem when they don't understand that nobody cares about running the full version of office on a tablet.

Personally I will be updating to a Nokia Lumia Icon for my next phone.  I've been having more and more issues with Android.  Apps not working while the same apps working on friends phones.  Androids greatest strength is its biggest weakness, to many versions that OEM's, and carriers have changed Android to their liking. I hate iOS, mostly for having to support it for years and the whole "it just works" BS because iOS doesn't just work but like the idea of a unified platform.  My friend has a Windows phone, while lacking some apps it has 90% of what I need.  Also after reading about the positive reviews about 8.1 made me want to switch more.  I'll be waiting till June until the Icon is sold with 8.1 before purchasing though.  I will however miss some apps I paid for on Android but they will still work fine on my Nexus 7.


I've been using an Icon with the 8.1 developer preview on it for the last month or so and it's pretty solid. The camera is the best I've used on a phone. The notification center is nice but I think it's slightly unnecessary. Cortana is pretty cool, easy way to set up appointments and reminders: "Hey, remind me to tell Dave he's a prick next time I talk to him" and it'll remind you to call him a prick the next time you interact with Dave via phone, text, chat, email, skype, etc. They added in their own version of swype to make typing much faster, though it doesn't seem to like certain words, mostly swear/insult words.

I switched to WP from Android about a year ago and I'm never going back. Without fail, after two updates my 'droid phones would become unusable messes. Text input wouldn't show up for a full two seconds after typing it, custom ringtones would get replaced by defaults every time I'd plug it into a computer, the search function, Google Now, was so goddamned slow as to be completely useless. I just felt like I was fighting with the damn thing after a while.

Honestly I don't get the "There's no apps!" argument. The WP store's got the bases pretty much covered. Aside from specific games, there really isn't anything lacking unless you're tied to a particular brand or something. Actually wait. The YouTube app sucks rotten donkey balls. It used to be the best YouTube app on any platform, then Google "upgraded" it to be a simple web wrapper for the mobile site but with really shiatty resource management. Very mature Google.
 
2014-05-20 01:18:13 PM  

luidprand: Google Docs


Mentioning a competitors product as the reason your product is useful doesn't help your case.
 
2014-05-20 01:23:04 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: luidprand: Google Docs

Mentioning a competitors product as the reason your product is useful doesn't help your case.


The argument was made that it took a lot of money to make an iPad useful. It doesn't. Not at all. I don't see how mentioning Google Docs makes that invalid.
 
2014-05-20 01:26:28 PM  

luidprand: InterruptingQuirk: luidprand: Google Docs

Mentioning a competitors product as the reason your product is useful doesn't help your case.

The argument was made that it took a lot of money to make an iPad useful. It doesn't. Not at all. I don't see how mentioning Google Docs makes that invalid.


Touche'
 
2014-05-20 01:56:31 PM  

somedude210: Surface RT sucks, Surface Pro (and Pro 2) are fantastic machines. Say what you will about the Metro UI, but Win8 really isn't that bad once you start to use it.

/yes, I'm a convert
//always loved the Win7/8 phone OSes though



Meh. I have an RT tablet and a full win 8 tablet. I like the RT best. This thing is a beast for day to day internet, email, browsing and word processing. Unless you run a ton of Windows applications, the RT is the better (and far cheaper) choice.
 
2014-05-20 02:06:22 PM  

SumoJeb: somedude210: Surface RT sucks, Surface Pro (and Pro 2) are fantastic machines. Say what you will about the Metro UI, but Win8 really isn't that bad once you start to use it.

/yes, I'm a convert
//always loved the Win7/8 phone OSes though


Meh. I have an RT tablet and a full win 8 tablet. I like the RT best. This thing is a beast for day to day internet, email, browsing and word processing. Unless you run a ton of Windows applications, the RT is the better (and far cheaper) choice.


What gets lost in a lot of these conversations is the purpose of usage; there are a shiat ton of different ways people want/need these machines to function, so I have a hard time believing that any one device is universally 'better' than another; I think they just serve different functions.
 
2014-05-20 02:25:00 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: For anyone that doesn't understand what sets the Surface Pro apart from everything else out there:

[cdn.pocketnow.com image 780x584]

/built in Wacom digitizer


I seriously would've gotten it just for that but the demo painting app was farking garbage. The Wii U drawing app is better.

Maybe I'm getting old, but the learning curve on every Win8 machine I've touched has put me off. If I can't figure out the basics in a few minutes on a store demo, I just don't give a shiat.
 
2014-05-20 02:31:48 PM  

moothemagiccow: InterruptingQuirk: For anyone that doesn't understand what sets the Surface Pro apart from everything else out there:

[cdn.pocketnow.com image 780x584]

/built in Wacom digitizer

I seriously would've gotten it just for that but the demo painting app was farking garbage. The Wii U drawing app is better.

Maybe I'm getting old, but the learning curve on every Win8 machine I've touched has put me off. If I can't figure out the basics in a few minutes on a store demo, I just don't give a shiat.


I've heard that 8.1 is a nice refresh.
 
2014-05-20 03:01:15 PM  

RoxtarRyan: With their assets totaling over $120B, while people have lost their job over blunders at MS, it isn't like the company is going full HP. Never go full HP.


I always find that amusing, since they were never as utterly awful as Packard Bell.

Also, I'm surprised Linux_Yes hasn't shown up to shiat all over this thread yet.  I'm sure he's just stuck in traffic or something.
 
2014-05-20 03:23:41 PM  

sendtodave: InterruptingQuirk: For anyone that doesn't understand what sets the Surface Pro apart from everything else out there:


[cdn.pocketnow.com image 780x584]


/built in Wacom digitizer


Engineers do not care for your art.



not all engineers and draftsman are soulless automatons
 
2014-05-20 03:25:21 PM  

loonatic112358: sendtodave: InterruptingQuirk: For anyone that doesn't understand what sets the Surface Pro apart from everything else out there:


[cdn.pocketnow.com image 780x584]


/built in Wacom digitizer


Engineers do not care for your art.


not all engineers and draftsman are soulless automatons


The good ones are.
 
2014-05-20 03:28:28 PM  

Lord Dimwit: The good ones are.


The best usually aren't, because being replaceable by an application is no way to go through life son
 
2014-05-20 03:54:03 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: I've heard that 8.1 is a nice refresh.


It does address some of the annoyances; I didn't see at first why anyone who had 8.0 wouldn't install 8.1.  Of course I didn't see why anyone who wasn't using 8 on a tablet wouldn't just drop $5 for Start8 at the get-go either once they figured out how awful the Start screen was vs the Start Menu on keyboard-mouse computers.

MSFT was and still is trying to force developers to create Metro apps going forward; they have the dream of 'write once run anywhere' except that anywhere only means Windows Phone 8, Windows RT/Pro tablets, and Win8 desktops.  Their plan is stymied by the abysmal adoption rate of Win8 on desktops.  I'm sure in Ballmer's head he was dreaming "WinXP is going off of support in 2014, Win8 is better than hot-buttered sex, every WinXP user will buy a Win8 license and I'll retire to Transylvania and terrorize villagers' daughters."
 
2014-05-20 05:35:10 PM  
My wife has a surface tablet and loves it.

My Mother needed a light computer for email and word processing and I recommended it to her as the best choice.  She had $1200 (business equipment fund) to spend buy the end of the year so we headed down to Best Buy to pick up a surface.

Being that she need word processing, she needed to get a pro for $300, no problem.

She didn't need a high powered system as it was just a travel computer for world processing and email.  The low end system with with M/S Office was within the price range...

Except they didn't tell us that they were out of stock when we called them before we came over.

When we got there, they informed us the lowest end system they could provide was $2500 and that no other local Best Buy (in Southern California) had anything lower wither.

We were ready to buy their product and they couldn't provide it.  Maybe they should have produced more of the lower end systems.

(She bought a small laptop for the $1200 instead)
 
2014-05-20 06:39:59 PM  

gmacbeth: My wife has a surface tablet and loves it.

My Mother needed a light computer for email and word processing and I recommended it to her as the best choice.  She had $1200 (business equipment fund) to spend buy the end of the year so we headed down to Best Buy to pick up a surface.

Being that she need word processing, she needed to get a pro for $300, no problem.

She didn't need a high powered system as it was just a travel computer for world processing and email.  The low end system with with M/S Office was within the price range...

Except they didn't tell us that they were out of stock when we called them before we came over.

When we got there, they informed us the lowest end system they could provide was $2500 and that no other local Best Buy (in Southern California) had anything lower wither.

We were ready to buy their product and they couldn't provide it.  Maybe they should have produced more of the lower end systems.

(She bought a small laptop for the $1200 instead)


Best Buy was prosecuted in Federal court years ago for a website pricing swap scheme they had going using intranet copies of their public website that had different pricing to demonstrate that the price people saw on the site at home was not what they think they saw, convincing people to then buy what they had in store at the price that the 'website' showed it was. I hope they haven't started that shiat again.
 
2014-05-20 06:48:00 PM  

gmacbeth: My wife has a surface tablet and loves it.

My Mother needed a light computer for email and word processing and I recommended it to her as the best choice.  She had $1200 (business equipment fund) to spend buy the end of the year so we headed down to Best Buy to pick up a surface.

Being that she need word processing, she needed to get a pro for $300, no problem.

She didn't need a high powered system as it was just a travel computer for world processing and email.  The low end system with with M/S Office was within the price range...

Except they didn't tell us that they were out of stock when we called them before we came over.

When we got there, they informed us the lowest end system they could provide was $2500 and that no other local Best Buy (in Southern California) had anything lower wither.

We were ready to buy their product and they couldn't provide it.  Maybe they should have produced more of the lower end systems.

(She bought a small laptop for the $1200 instead)


never buy from bestbuy


why didn't you go to frys?
 
2014-05-20 06:57:45 PM  

gmacbeth: My wife has a surface tablet and loves it.

Being that she need word processing, she needed to get a pro for $300, no problem.


RT runs the full Office suite of products..... no need to go pro just for word processing.
 
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