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(Den Of Geek)   Why Return Of The Jedi deserves more love   (denofgeek.com) divider line 128
    More: Interesting, Jedi, Empire Strikes Back, Star Wars, Empire, Jedi deserves, Deathstars, space battle, Joseph Campbell  
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3744 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 19 May 2014 at 12:16 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-19 11:54:45 AM  
The "I am a Jedi ... *headnod* .. like my father before me" scene is the best scene in any Star Wars film, all three of them.
 
2014-05-19 11:56:51 AM  
Bunch of f*cking muppets.
 
2014-05-19 12:03:37 PM  
Yeah, the Ewoks were pandering to the younger kids. I still put "Empire" on a pedestal, but I still love ROTJ in spite of its faults.
 
2014-05-19 12:15:19 PM  
I liked it best at the time, and it's still way up there. When Vader picks up the Emperor and throws him down the shaft it gave me goosebumps. It still does.
 
2014-05-19 12:20:17 PM  

Nabb1: Yeah, the Ewoks were pandering to the younger kids. I still put "Empire" on a pedestal, but I still love ROTJ in spite of its faults.


Agreed. Love Return of the Jedi. Especially the Jabba's Palace/Sarlacc Pit scenes.

The Special Edition changes are pretty shiatty though.
 
2014-05-19 12:24:01 PM  
"It's a Tarp"
 
2014-05-19 12:24:55 PM  
Has the best space battles scenes of all the others combined.
 
2014-05-19 12:25:16 PM  
By far the best space battle in the original trilogy. When I finally got my hands on X-Wing and TIE Fighter, the second Death Star was the battle I most wanted to simulate. That was the one that made it really feel like space dog fighting, instead of pseudo-Earth dog fighting. Full speed, any angle, evasive maneuvers in any direction.
 
2014-05-19 12:27:09 PM  
The scene of RD zapping an Ewok's ass had to be the lowest point in Star Wars (yes, even lower than Bea Author's cantina singing).
 
2014-05-19 12:27:18 PM  
Return of the Jedi is a great example of a fun movie that could have been SOOOOOO much better.  Wookies instead of Ewoks and we're done.

Or maybe explain to me why the Rebellion allowed some of their most valuable agents to all commit to such an awful plan to rescue Han rather than, I don't know, sparing a few soldiers?
 
2014-05-19 12:27:47 PM  
R2 (because I know you spelling Nazis are out there, goosestepping)
 
2014-05-19 12:28:45 PM  
I have never heard of "Return of the Jedi". I had to click on the link. I don't watch movies (or TV in general) so I couldn't give an opinion anyway. After reading that article, seems like I'm not missing much.
 
2014-05-19 12:30:52 PM  
In Empire, when Leia tells Han she loves him, his response before being turned into a carbonite popsicle is pretty badass. When they swap lines in Jedi, it's goddamned amazing.

I unabashedly love the movie, Ewoks and all.
 
2014-05-19 12:32:20 PM  
Not nearly enough talk about midichlorians for my taste.
 
2014-05-19 12:33:09 PM  

weddingsinger: Return of the Jedi is a great example of a fun movie that could have been SOOOOOO much better.  Wookies instead of Ewoks and we're done.

Or maybe explain to me why the Rebellion allowed some of their most valuable agents to all commit to such an awful plan to rescue Han rather than, I don't know, sparing a few soldiers?


Or why, if the X-Wings could concentrate their shields to double-front, why they couldn't move it to double-rear when they were in the Death Star trench?

And firing at the exhaust port from a  horizontal level when the damn hole could have been approached from a straight-down firing angle?

And Stormtrooper armor that can't even stop a rock thrown by a teddy bear! Dafuq, George?!

No wonder Carrie Fisher had her face buried deep into a baggie of coke from '74-83 and Mark Hamill tried to end it all by crashing his car!
 
2014-05-19 12:36:44 PM  

TV's Vinnie: And firing at the exhaust port from a  horizontal level when the damn hole could have been approached from a straight-down firing angle?


I always figured the trench run was to avoid heavy turret fire. Approaching straight down leaves a nice easy spot to fire from below.
 
2014-05-19 12:41:40 PM  
I have one, perhaps two reasons:

i.imgur.com
 
2014-05-19 12:42:32 PM  

Nabb1: Yeah, the Ewoks were pandering to the younger kids. I still put "Empire" on a pedestal, but I still love ROTJ in spite of its faults.


And that is how we ended up with Jar-Jar
Won't someone stop thinking of the kids.
 
2014-05-19 12:42:32 PM  

exick: In Empire, when Leia tells Han she loves him, his response before being turned into a carbonite popsicle is pretty badass. When they swap lines in Jedi, it's goddamned amazing.

I unabashedly love the movie, Ewoks and all.


I grew up loving the Ewoks. My parents taped "Caravan of Courage" off of TV when they knew they were pregnant with a boy and I grew up watching that and RotJ non-stop. I actually watched the movies in reversed order because I was curious as to what happened before RotJ and didn't think to start at the beginning.

/My mom's parents owned only 2 movies on VHS when I would visit. 1 was Temple of Doom. I thought for a long time that was the only Indiana Jone's movie...
//my other grand parents owned only Jaws 2 and Jaws: The Revenge...
///needless to say I really enjoy watching bad movies as an adult
 
2014-05-19 12:44:13 PM  
Considering i was a kid when it came out, I always liked the Ewoks, and still do, to this day.  I greatly prefer the original cut with the Ewok theme song at the end, rather than the new CGI incarnation.

I probably prefer Jedi over Empire too.  Empire doesn't have any plot arc.  Its too obviously a middle segment.
 
2014-05-19 12:46:33 PM  

Nabb1: Yeah, the Ewoks were pandering to the younger kids. I still put "Empire" on a pedestal, but I still love ROTJ in spite of its faults.


I thought we got Ewoks because of $$$.  Midgets are cheaper to hire and costume than 50 wookies?
 
2014-05-19 12:46:51 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Or why, if the X-Wings could concentrate their shields to double-front, why they couldn't move it to double-rear when they were in the Death Star trench?


I don't know about double-rear, they do comment on setting the deflectors to rear:

"Gold Two: [the Y-wings are running the gauntlet toward the Death Star reactor-port] The guns - they've stopped!
Gold Five: [realizes why] Stabilize your rear deflectors... Watch for enemy fighters. "

/Kind of sad I remember that line.
//Then again, my fark name kind of says it all.
///ROTJ is ok for nostalgia value, but Empire is still best.
 
2014-05-19 12:48:53 PM  
It has the best space battles by far, but the Ewoks are the least of its problems.  The Jabba section runs way too long for what it accomplishes, Obi-Wan's "certain point of view" speech is a cop-out, and Leia-as-sister was a bullshiat way to defuse that love triangle the series had going.

I don't think it's a bad film on the whole, but it does have a lot of missed dramatic potential.
 
2014-05-19 12:54:30 PM  

weddingsinger: I thought we got Ewoks because of $$$.  Midgets are cheaper to hire and costume than 50 wookies?


I remember the justification was that Wookies were too technically advanced to work in the "bunch of savages defeats the Empire" role the movie had for them, so they were swapped for something physically opposite (very short instead of very tall, etc.).
 
2014-05-19 12:58:11 PM  
The first half hour (Han's rescue from Jabba) is amazing, old school adventure film making, and the three
way duel between Luke, Vader and the Emperor is amazingly deep stuff.

Other than that, though, it is the film you watch only because it completes the story started in episodes IV and V.
 
2014-05-19 01:01:57 PM  

flynn80: Nabb1: Yeah, the Ewoks were pandering to the younger kids. I still put "Empire" on a pedestal, but I still love ROTJ in spite of its faults.

And that is how we ended up with Jar-Jar



Jar-jar made the Ewoks look like...farking Shaft
 
2014-05-19 01:02:26 PM  
I think everyone agrees that it has its problems but is still a really fun movie. It's the least of the original trilogy but only slightly; a 9/10 following two 10/10s. It sure as hell looks better now it's been followed by two 3/10s and one 5/10.

And to answer TFAs "people aren't looking forward to the next one!", that's because JJ Abrams makes fun popcorn movies with no heart or depth. Episode VII will be technically well made and well paced and we'll be entertained for 2 hours... But we won't remember what happened in it the next day.
 
2014-05-19 01:04:21 PM  

weddingsinger: Or maybe explain to me why the Rebellion allowed some of their most valuable agents to all commit to such an awful plan to rescue Han rather than, I don't know, sparing a few soldiers?


That was a personal thing, not a rebel alliance thing.  Han was not a member of the rebel alliance at that point. Luke, Leia, Lando, etc. did this on their own.  This wasn't a sanctioned rescue.

Trocadero: By far the best space battle in the original trilogy.


The most technically complex special effects shot that had ever been done (and now with computers doing all the heavy lifting it will never be surpassed).  Just the sheer number of composited elements in one frame is unreal.  That is also why there is a mistake in the initial shot of the Tie Fighters swarming the Falcon.
 
2014-05-19 01:07:15 PM  
At least the Ewoks are adorable, not like that grating JarJar guy.
 
2014-05-19 01:07:34 PM  

UberDave: flynn80: Nabb1: Yeah, the Ewoks were pandering to the younger kids. I still put "Empire" on a pedestal, but I still love ROTJ in spite of its faults.

And that is how we ended up with Jar-Jar


Jar-jar made the Ewoks look like...farking Shaft


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-05-19 01:13:32 PM  
My biggest gripe about RotJ is the ending.  The Death Star is destroyed and there is an immediate after-party.  Why didn't the giant fleet of Star Destroyers destroy what was left of the Rebel Fleet?
 
2014-05-19 01:15:26 PM  
The ewoks aren't so ridiculously cute when you realize that the stormtroopers they killed probably ended up as stew.
 
2014-05-19 01:18:08 PM  
Goddamned Jedi Luke Skywalker has to throw a rock at a switch to kill the Rancor, but not until after he manually puts a bone in its mouth to keep it from biting down on him.
And he has to manually fight everyone on Jabba's 2 transports instead of using the force to shove them off and into Sarlacc.  Is he that weak that he doesn't know how to do it, yet goes and kills Darth Vader?
And no, the Ewoks can't overtake the Empire garrison on a forest moon of Endor that had a faciility to shield the new Death Star.

8 year old me didn't care, but Jedi deserves a remake or a redo or something.
 
2014-05-19 01:23:56 PM  

bark_atda_moon: My biggest gripe about RotJ is the ending.  The Death Star is destroyed and there is an immediate after-party.  Why didn't the giant fleet of Star Destroyers destroy what was left of the Rebel Fleet?


They bugged out after seeing the command ship and the death star get wasted. Hell, I would too.
 
2014-05-19 01:25:16 PM  

bark_atda_moon: My biggest gripe about RotJ is the ending.  The Death Star is destroyed and there is an immediate after-party.  Why didn't the giant fleet of Star Destroyers destroy what was left of the Rebel Fleet?


I always wondered this too, but figured with the Death Star gone and the Emperor dead, what was left of the Empire fleet was so demoralized they most likely beat a hasty retreat.
 
2014-05-19 01:31:01 PM  
A New Hope
The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi

This is the only three-movie set that really works well all together.

There was growing excitement between each one, and the next one that came out didn't disappoint.
Best Trilogy Evar!
 
2014-05-19 01:34:58 PM  
THE EWOK SONG!!!
img.fark.net
 
2014-05-19 01:35:33 PM  

Cymbal: bark_atda_moon: My biggest gripe about RotJ is the ending.  The Death Star is destroyed and there is an immediate after-party.  Why didn't the giant fleet of Star Destroyers destroy what was left of the Rebel Fleet?

I always wondered this too, but figured with the Death Star gone and the Emperor dead, what was left of the Empire fleet was so demoralized they most likely beat a hasty retreat.


Considering most of the Imperial officers were dullards chosen for their ability to  follow orders, not create plans or come up with solutions to problems, I'd say that's a fair assessment. Vader kills several officers because they're nitwits who are more concerned with appearing important and intimidating without actually having the brass (or brains) to back it up.
 
2014-05-19 01:37:06 PM  

Evil Mackerel: bark_atda_moon: My biggest gripe about RotJ is the ending.  The Death Star is destroyed and there is an immediate after-party.  Why didn't the giant fleet of Star Destroyers destroy what was left of the Rebel Fleet?

They bugged out after seeing the command ship and the death star get wasted. Hell, I would too.


Imagine if the Americans retreated during the Battle of Midway after the Yorktown was sunk.
 
2014-05-19 01:44:37 PM  
The Ewoks weren't annoying because they were little furball cannibal aliens.  That part was fine.

They were annoying because everyone had a running complaint about the stormtroopers being incredibly useless in the first movie, and the creators seemed to have noted the problem and addressed it in  Empire, then in Jedi when Lucas got back more direct control he had a set of animated teddy bears with no technology beyond the second-class lever  completely curb stomp them without the entire imperial ground force being able to offer the slightest shred of resistance.

bark_atda_moon: My biggest gripe about RotJ is the ending.  The Death Star is destroyed and there is an immediate after-party.  Why didn't the giant fleet of Star Destroyers destroy what was left of the Rebel Fleet?


The entire 'trap' hinged on the fact that, had the DS not been working, the imperial forces would be massively outnumbered and outgunned.  This was why they risked the attack in the first place.

Once the station was destroyed... the imperials were just massively outnumbered and outgunned, without the 'trap' aspect.  Withdrawing from that territory was the right call.

// Albeit it was never quite clear how long hyperspace trips actually took in the movies.  I'd always assumed they were equivalent to trans-oceanic voyages, taking something like months in out-of-hyperspace time, given the whole port/hub organization of shipping and so on.  So they couldn't just hot-drop more of their forces on there in the apparent seconds seen by the people in the warping ship.
 
2014-05-19 01:50:04 PM  

Jim_Callahan: The entire 'trap' hinged on the fact that, had the DS not been working, the imperial forces would be massively outnumbered and outgunned.  This was why they risked the attack in the first place.

Once the station was destroyed... the imperials were just massively outnumbered and outgunned, without the 'trap' aspect.  Withdrawing from that territory was the right call.

// Albeit it was never quite clear how long hyperspace trips actually took in the movies.  I'd always assumed they were equivalent to trans-oceanic voyages, taking something like months in out-of-hyperspace time, given the whole port/hub organization of shipping and so on.  So they couldn't just hot-drop more of their forces on there in the apparent seconds seen by the people in the warping ship.


I thought the Imperial forces greatly outnumbered the Rebels.  The only reason the Rebels survived was because the Emperor stupidly ordered the Star Destroyers not to fire while he was playing with his fully armed and operational toy.  The Rebels were under the impression that there was no imperial fleet near the Death Star.
 
2014-05-19 01:52:16 PM  

bark_atda_moon: The Rebels were under the impression that there was no imperial fleet near the Death Star.


Yep.  The fact that the fleet was there was a surprise.
 
2014-05-19 01:52:25 PM  

bark_atda_moon: Imagine if the Americans retreated during the Battle of Midway after the Yorktown was sunk.


That would have been hard to do.  What with the battle having already ended by the time the Yorktown gave up and sank.
 
2014-05-19 02:02:04 PM  

mjbok: bark_atda_moon: The Rebels were under the impression that there was no imperial fleet near the Death Star.

Yep.  The fact that the fleet was there was a surprise.

i512.photobucket.com
 
2014-05-19 02:03:20 PM  

bark_atda_moon: I thought the Imperial forces greatly outnumbered the Rebels. The only reason the Rebels survived was because the Emperor stupidly ordered the Star Destroyers not to fire while he was playing with his fully armed and operational toy. The Rebels were under the impression that there was no imperial fleet near the Death Star.


I think all six movies illustrate that Palpatine was a master manipulator, but utter sh*t at everything else. He had all the power but spoiled it because he was an egotistical asshole. Emperor he could become, but emperor he could not be.

Even at the end, when Darth's ready to turn babyface he couldn't help himself. Palpatine tried to convince Luke to kill Vader and become his apprentice wih Vader standing right there.

So it makes sense that he'd pick crappy officers and raise an army that looked intimidating, but was corrupt and inept as all get-out. The empire had one thing going: size. It was massive and pervasive. But the whole galaxy knew how to skirt around Palpatine's authority, and many characters were proud to ignore it (Especially gangsters and smugglers).
 
2014-05-19 02:03:48 PM  

Click Click D'oh: bark_atda_moon: Imagine if the Americans retreated during the Battle of Midway after the Yorktown was sunk.

That would have been hard to do.  What with the battle having already ended by the time the Yorktown gave up and sank.


You got me there.  Yorktown was abandoned an hour before the Japanese carriers were sunk.  They tried to salvage it and a submarine sunk it later.
 
2014-05-19 02:04:55 PM  

bark_atda_moon: My biggest gripe about RotJ is the ending.  The Death Star is destroyed and there is an immediate after-party.  Why didn't the giant fleet of Star Destroyers destroy what was left of the Rebel Fleet?



I remember a theory put forward in one of the Zahn novels that I liked was that the Emperor was able to use the Force to control the Empire at a granular level from the second Death Star. Not so much that he was controlling the movements and actions of the Imperial Officers and troops involved but more along the lines that he was using the Force to coordinate his forces and control their focus.

The brilliant part of this theory is that the second Death Star battle / Battle of Endor is all going the Empire's Way until Luke goes off-script and the Emperor's focus shifts from the exterior battle to 100% on Luke and Vader. That's the point where Han tricks the bunker commander, the Rebels blow-up the shield generator and the remaining Rebel ships are able to attack the Death Star.

I know, lots of people don't want to hear about any clap-trap from the Expanded Universe and I tired of most of it pretty quickly too. I just like this theory as it adds some depth and a darker tone to the ROTJ plot.
 
2014-05-19 02:10:54 PM  

Nana's Vibrator: Goddamned Jedi Luke Skywalker has to throw a rock at a switch to kill the Rancor, but not until after he manually puts a bone in its mouth to keep it from biting down on him.
And he has to manually fight everyone on Jabba's 2 transports instead of using the force to shove them off and into Sarlacc.


Per my recollection, Lucas really amp'd up the force powers in Eps 1-3 than was shown all through the originally series.
 
2014-05-19 02:11:12 PM  

bark_atda_moon: Jim_Callahan: The entire 'trap' hinged on the fact that, had the DS not been working, the imperial forces would be massively outnumbered and outgunned.  This was why they risked the attack in the first place.

Once the station was destroyed... the imperials were just massively outnumbered and outgunned, without the 'trap' aspect.  Withdrawing from that territory was the right call.

// Albeit it was never quite clear how long hyperspace trips actually took in the movies.  I'd always assumed they were equivalent to trans-oceanic voyages, taking something like months in out-of-hyperspace time, given the whole port/hub organization of shipping and so on.  So they couldn't just hot-drop more of their forces on there in the apparent seconds seen by the people in the warping ship.

I thought the Imperial forces greatly outnumbered the Rebels.  The only reason the Rebels survived was because the Emperor stupidly ordered the Star Destroyers not to fire while he was playing with his fully armed and operational toy.  The Rebels were under the impression that there was no imperial fleet near the Death Star.


I liked Zahn's explanation for this.  His idea was that the Emperor used the Force to directly influence the ability of his forces to work together effectively.  With the Emperor dead, the fleet fell into disorganization and couldn't mount an effective counterattack against the Rebels.
 
2014-05-19 02:16:51 PM  

verbaltoxin: I think all six movies illustrate that Palpatine was a master manipulator, but utter sh*t at everything else. He had all the power but spoiled it because he was an egotistical asshole. Emperor he could become, but emperor he could not be.


He was in charge for a couple of decades.  Not a bad run.  If you include his time as Chancellor it approaches 40 years.  Just as Emperor it is low 20's.  Still not a bad run.
 
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