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(The State)   4th Circuit Court of Appeals tells district court judge that before laughing them out of court, he has to apply the law to analyze whether it's actually a mole hill or a mountain that litigious atheists are pointing at   (thestate.com) divider line 16
    More: Spiffy, United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, district court, University of Richmond, American Humanist Association, Greenville County, atheists, appeals courts, United States courts of appeals  
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3581 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 May 2014 at 3:24 PM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-19 01:11:01 PM  
4 votes:

nmrsnr: For Fark's sake, is it really that hard NOT to pray at a school function?


For many theists, yes.  They need that constant reinforcement of their belief. Otherwise they will lapse into hedonistic debauchery and wanton depravity.
2014-05-19 05:13:40 PM  
3 votes:

geek_mars: I'm an atheist and generally support the AHA, however, in this instance, I think they might be over-doing it.

FTFA: They asked a judge to block Mountain View Elementary from holding ceremonies at a chapel at North Greenville University, a Southern Baptist-affiliated school, and allowing student-led prayers.

If it were faculty or administration led prayers, that would be one thing, but if the students want to lead prayers, denying them the right to do so seems like it would be an infringement on their religious liberties. If the AHA were to limit their suit to the issue of the location, that would be one thing, but as long as the student-led prayers don't require participation by those who do not with to participate, I don't see the problem.


I'd agree if the school system didn't take the position that the students represent the schools at all times. The courts seem to agree. From the "Bong hits 4 Jesus" decision the judge said "It was reasonable for (the principal) to conclude that the banner promoted illegal drug use-- and that failing to act would send a powerful message to the students in her charge, "
(Emphasis mine)
So basically if they fail to stop the prayer at a school function, then they are in fact sending the message that they approve of the content by their own logic.

Now if the students want to organize something on their own time. That is completely different, but as long as their is official organization there should be no prayer of any kind.

Besides, they're supposed to do it in private... Matthew 6:6 says "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."
2014-05-19 04:27:17 PM  
3 votes:

geek_mars: I'm an atheist and generally support the AHA, however, in this instance, I think they might be over-doing it.

FTFA: They asked a judge to block Mountain View Elementary from holding ceremonies at a chapel at North Greenville University, a Southern Baptist-affiliated school, and allowing student-led prayers.

If it were faculty or administration led prayers, that would be one thing, but if the students want to lead prayers, denying them the right to do so seems like it would be an infringement on their religious liberties. If the AHA were to limit their suit to the issue of the location, that would be one thing, but as long as the student-led prayers don't require participation by those who do not with to participate, I don't see the problem.


The teacher asked which student was gonna lead our Christian prayer today... but it was totally student led. How about SC starts teaching a little more science in school and focuses on things kids actually need to know instead of ghost story time?
2014-05-19 04:25:02 PM  
2 votes:
One of my Jewish friends left a town council meeting in Tennessee... he wanted to talk about extending hours for a playground near his house during the summer, since there's more sunlight hours... he said there was a 10+ minute prayer (he left and it still wasn't over), repeatedly invoking Jesus as the one true savior. I asked why he didn't just ignore it.. his response was that he knows where he's not welcome, and it's probably time for him to move, so he shouldn't care about the playground hours any more. Apparently as he was leaving, he got lots of dirty looks and one person said aloud "he was going to hell anyways."
2014-05-19 04:13:15 PM  
2 votes:
I'm an atheist and generally support the AHA, however, in this instance, I think they might be over-doing it.

FTFA: They asked a judge to block Mountain View Elementary from holding ceremonies at a chapel at North Greenville University, a Southern Baptist-affiliated school, and allowing student-led prayers.

If it were faculty or administration led prayers, that would be one thing, but if the students want to lead prayers, denying them the right to do so seems like it would be an infringement on their religious liberties. If the AHA were to limit their suit to the issue of the location, that would be one thing, but as long as the student-led prayers don't require participation by those who do not with to participate, I don't see the problem.
2014-05-19 03:28:10 PM  
2 votes:
Can't we just be offended by the idea of an elementary school graduation? That's enough to outrage me, like this marks anything but a change of educators and administrators to annoy.
2014-05-19 04:59:16 PM  
1 votes:

s2s2s2: qorkfiend: Did you read the article? No? Then STFU and GTFO.


FTFA: The plaintiffs alleged that the district infringed upon their First Amendment Establishment Clause by holding Mountain View's graduation ceremony at a religious venue and incorporating prayer as a part of the official graduation program, according to court filings.

That's what I'm talking bout. Will no STFU, nor GTFO. Feel free to CTIB.


Actually, what you were talking about was:

s2s2s2: Did the government found the church? Did the school? No?

which has nothing to do with the part of the article you just referenced.
2014-05-19 04:48:43 PM  
1 votes:

nmrsnr: For Fark's sake, is it really that hard NOT to pray at a school function?


That's not the point. And what about the Jews, Muslims, etc... out there? Is it too hard for them to NOT pray to Jesus?

What part of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" do you not understand?
2014-05-19 04:08:06 PM  
1 votes:

s2s2s2: whidbey: Dude this doesn't even make sense. Are you even pro or against the position taken in the article?


Always about sides with you. What do you have against "levels"?


Just pointing out the utter incoherence of your post. What does it even mean?
2014-05-19 03:51:16 PM  
1 votes:
The oppression by liberals on Christians in this country is stunning. Infact one of the biggest liberals in recorded history even said to pray in the closet and not make a public spectacle of yourself.   Can you believe that?!  Where's my rifle, i need to go stand my ground against something, stupid liberal world.
2014-05-19 03:34:15 PM  
1 votes:
BUT OUR RELIGIOUS FREEDUMZ ARE UNDER ATTACK! WE DEMAND PRAYER, BUT NOT YOUR PRAYER!
2014-05-19 03:22:19 PM  
1 votes:
*psst* there is no god. you can sleep in on sunday. it's ok, really.
2014-05-19 12:47:26 PM  
1 votes:
FTFA: Christians might soon be "arrested for proclaiming the Gospel."

Call me when the Westboro Baptist Church protestors are hauled away in chains by the cops. Then we'll talk.
2014-05-19 12:44:41 PM  
1 votes:

vpb: I think you're trying too hard.


Given the contentious nature of TFA, I think Subby did a good job of not picking sides other than "anti snap-judgment."  Maybe it is a meritless case, maybe it is a great case, but the judge should at least give the litigants the time of day.
2014-05-19 12:44:06 PM  
1 votes:
FTFA: After a hearing, the district court denied both motions without a written order, the appeals court said in its ruling.

Judges don't have to actually even write a paragraph explaining a decision? I'm glad that's grounds for appeal, because that shiat is bananas.
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-05-19 12:05:36 PM  
1 votes:
I think you're trying too hard.
 
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