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(The State)   4th Circuit Court of Appeals tells district court judge that before laughing them out of court, he has to apply the law to analyze whether it's actually a mole hill or a mountain that litigious atheists are pointing at   (thestate.com) divider line 62
    More: Spiffy, United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, district court, University of Richmond, American Humanist Association, Greenville County, atheists, appeals courts, United States courts of appeals  
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3584 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 May 2014 at 3:24 PM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-19 06:33:26 PM  

Jaymark108: The creepiest thing about this to me is that students are getting an official graduation from elementary school.  If I had an elementary school graduation, I don't remember it.

When you graduate from high school, the diploma shows that you have met the basic requirements for entering the adult world and that all further schoolwork is optional and personal.  That's something that merits celebration.  When you get a participatory award for completing your multiplication drills, it signifies that you learned something about multiplication but you don't have a special ceremony.  What special significance is passing fifth grade?  Congratulations, you're not quite halfway there?


Yup. Completely stupid. Lots of schools also have kindergarden graduation ceremonies. Talk about setting the bar low.
 
2014-05-19 06:36:43 PM  

wax_on: Jaymark108: The creepiest thing about this to me is that students are getting an official graduation from elementary school.  If I had an elementary school graduation, I don't remember it.

When you graduate from high school, the diploma shows that you have met the basic requirements for entering the adult world and that all further schoolwork is optional and personal.  That's something that merits celebration.  When you get a participatory award for completing your multiplication drills, it signifies that you learned something about multiplication but you don't have a special ceremony.  What special significance is passing fifth grade?  Congratulations, you're not quite halfway there?

Yup. Completely stupid. Lots of schools also have kindergarden graduation ceremonies. Talk about setting the bar low.


Yeah because congratulating students on a job well done is "setting the bar low."

Let me guess, you use "your precious snowflake" a lot in sentences.
 
2014-05-19 07:17:47 PM  

whidbey: wax_on: Jaymark108: The creepiest thing about this to me is that students are getting an official graduation from elementary school.  If I had an elementary school graduation, I don't remember it.

When you graduate from high school, the diploma shows that you have met the basic requirements for entering the adult world and that all further schoolwork is optional and personal.  That's something that merits celebration.  When you get a participatory award for completing your multiplication drills, it signifies that you learned something about multiplication but you don't have a special ceremony.  What special significance is passing fifth grade?  Congratulations, you're not quite halfway there?

Yup. Completely stupid. Lots of schools also have kindergarden graduation ceremonies. Talk about setting the bar low.

Yeah because congratulating students on a job well done is "setting the bar low."

Let me guess, you use "your precious snowflake" a lot in sentences.


A kindergarten graduation ceremony is the same as a 'participation award'. It's BS. How about we congratulate our kids on real accomplishments instead of made up ones.
 
2014-05-19 07:41:15 PM  

wax_on: A kindergarten graduation ceremony is the same as a 'participation award'. It's BS. How about we congratulate our kids on real accomplishments instead of made up ones.


Because a bunch of 5 year old kids achieving a huge breakthrough socialization like kindergarten = "BS."

How about we congratulate our kids on real accomplishments instead of made up ones.

Dude, you're more than welcome to start a School of Engineering for pre-teens. Otherwise, you come off as incredibly insensitive and out of touch with real people's needs.
 
2014-05-19 07:41:57 PM  
Imagine the recall petitions and hand wringing if the school board had decided to hold the ceremony at a mosque and the prayer reading was from the Koran.
 
2014-05-19 08:24:41 PM  

sdd2000: Imagine the recall petitions and hand wringing if the school board had decided to hold the ceremony at a mosque and the prayer reading was from the Koran.


They are imagining that. Why do you think they are ratcheting up the prayer to HeyZeus?
 
2014-05-19 08:37:25 PM  

wax_on: Jaymark108: The creepiest thing about this to me is that students are getting an official graduation from elementary school.  If I had an elementary school graduation, I don't remember it.

When you graduate from high school, the diploma shows that you have met the basic requirements for entering the adult world and that all further schoolwork is optional and personal.  That's something that merits celebration.  When you get a participatory award for completing your multiplication drills, it signifies that you learned something about multiplication but you don't have a special ceremony.  What special significance is passing fifth grade?  Congratulations, you're not quite halfway there?

Yup. Completely stupid. Lots of schools also have kindergarden graduation ceremonies. Talk about setting the bar low.


Think of it as a "School's out for summer" celebration, and it makes more sense.
 
2014-05-19 09:25:00 PM  

rummonkey: SirGunslinger: Dinki: nmrsnr: For Fark's sake, is it really that hard NOT to pray at a school function?

For many theists, yes.  They need that constant reinforcement of their belief. Otherwise they will lapse into hedonistic debauchery and wanton depravity.

What if my prayers involve Slannesh?

Whippersnappers

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!


SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!
 
2014-05-20 06:52:02 AM  

geek_mars: I'm an atheist and generally support the AHA, however, in this instance, I think they might be over-doing it.

FTFA: They asked a judge to block Mountain View Elementary from holding ceremonies at a chapel at North Greenville University, a Southern Baptist-affiliated school, and allowing student-led prayers.

If it were faculty or administration led prayers, that would be one thing, but if the students want to lead prayers, denying them the right to do so seems like it would be an infringement on their religious liberties. If the AHA were to limit their suit to the issue of the location, that would be one thing, but as long as the student-led prayers don't require participation by those who do not with to participate, I don't see the problem.


Okay the 'allowing student led prayers' thing is an absolute classic trick to bypass the spirit of the law. 'Allowing' implies some students just decided, never a word with staff and in no way officially, to pray a bit in a private group. This is simply nonsense. Students with the pre-arrangement, approval and collaboration of staff and in a capacity official in all but name lead prayers on behalf of the school. It is simply dissembling and any court which pretended to believe it would be derelict.
 
2014-05-20 09:35:16 AM  

gaspode: the spirit of the law


Phrase taken from scripture. Your argument is ruled a violation of the establishment clause. invalid.
 
2014-05-21 03:16:06 AM  

gaspode: geek_mars: I'm an atheist and generally support the AHA, however, in this instance, I think they might be over-doing it.

FTFA: They asked a judge to block Mountain View Elementary from holding ceremonies at a chapel at North Greenville University, a Southern Baptist-affiliated school, and allowing student-led prayers.

If it were faculty or administration led prayers, that would be one thing, but if the students want to lead prayers, denying them the right to do so seems like it would be an infringement on their religious liberties. If the AHA were to limit their suit to the issue of the location, that would be one thing, but as long as the student-led prayers don't require participation by those who do not with to participate, I don't see the problem.

Okay the 'allowing student led prayers' thing is an absolute classic trick to bypass the spirit of the law. 'Allowing' implies some students just decided, never a word with staff and in no way officially, to pray a bit in a private group. This is simply nonsense. Students with the pre-arrangement, approval and collaboration of staff and in a capacity official in all but name lead prayers on behalf of the school. It is simply dissembling and any court which pretended to believe it would be derelict.


I don't disagree, but I can't imagine how to go about solving that problem. It's not practical to constantly police the faculty to ensure they're not pre-arranging and collaborating, and if you ban prayer then if there's a student or group of students that actually want to do their own prayer then they are being wrongly denied that right. The whole thing is a mess and because the issue is so polarizing I can't see how any group of reasonable people will be able to figure this out in a way that's satisfactory to either side.
 
2014-05-21 03:32:31 AM  
You don't allow prayers in class or in assemblies of the whole school. You do allow it in private clubs and in personal groups.
 
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