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(The New York Times)   Paul Ryan: The poor suffer a deficiency of friendship, accountability and loving relationships and that is why they are poor   (nytimes.com) divider line 411
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1424 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 May 2014 at 10:03 AM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-19 09:23:37 AM  
Ryan said: "The best way to turn from a vicious cycle of despair and learned helplessness to a virtuous cycle of hope and flourishing is by embracing the attributes of friendship, accountability and love."

Despite the fact he sounds like a hippie here, it's still just blaming the victim.

And very incorrect.
 
2014-05-19 09:37:41 AM  
Ir is a very republican idea to assume that poverty is due to lack of moral virtue. It's also completely wring and borderline insane.
 
2014-05-19 09:41:01 AM  
So, does that mean that citizens in developing countries are just not in love enough with each other?
 
2014-05-19 09:42:22 AM  

Weaver95: Ir is a very republican idea to assume that poverty is due to lack of moral virtue. It's also completely wring and borderline insane.


So is your keyboard today ;-)
 
2014-05-19 09:42:31 AM  
Who needs work when you have handouts.
 
2014-05-19 09:43:28 AM  

hinten: So, does that mean that citizens in developing countries are just not in love enough with each other?


It means 6 or 8 generations ago, our side was better at competing than their side. Do we owe them now for that? Open question. I doubt highly if the situation were reversed, anyone would be bailing us out though.
 
2014-05-19 09:45:44 AM  

Generation_D: hinten: So, does that mean that citizens in developing countries are just not in love enough with each other?

It means 6 or 8 generations ago, our side was better at competing than their side. Do we owe them now for that? Open question. I doubt highly if the situation were reversed, anyone would be bailing us out though.


Ah, that might be a reasonable argument but is also the exact opposite of what Ryan said.
 
2014-05-19 09:46:10 AM  
Poverty Is Not a State of Mind . . . but naked is!
 
2014-05-19 09:50:32 AM  
Christ, what a disingenuous twatwaffle
 
2014-05-19 09:50:50 AM  
This is the type of conclusion one could easily reach as a result of being a devout Catholic and Randian Objectivist, assuming one cherry-picks the right bits to make it all fit together.
 
2014-05-19 09:55:38 AM  
"Indeed, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics' latest survey of consumer expenditure found that the poorest fifth of America's households contributed an average of 4.3 percent of their incomes to charitable organizations in 2007. The richest fifth gave at less than half that rate, 2.1 percent."

Wow.  The poor really don't have any moral backbone, do they Congressman?
 
2014-05-19 09:59:47 AM  
Poverty is injustice sold as a character flaw.
 
2014-05-19 10:03:25 AM  
If we had just one more government program redistributing wealth, we could eradicate poverty.  we are that close, fark nation.
 
2014-05-19 10:05:07 AM  
This is like the chicken or the egg, except it's more like the bullet wound or the death, and Ryan seems to think the death caused the bullet wound.
 
2014-05-19 10:05:31 AM  
Sure is easy to tell that this Randian crapsack has never spent a single day in his life hungry.
 
2014-05-19 10:06:15 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Poverty is injustice sold as a character flaw.


If that's not a famous quote from somewhere, it should be.

I'll further posit that "poverty is injustice sold as a character flaw in order to keep from offending the rich."
 
2014-05-19 10:06:22 AM  

Generation_D: Who needs work when you have handouts.


Are you handing out any jobs today?
 
2014-05-19 10:07:41 AM  

Crabs_Can_Polevault: If that's not a famous quote from somewhere, it should be.


I'm sure I'm not the original source. I know I've heard "the opposite of poverty is justice" as well. All the same theme. Connects well with people.
 
2014-05-19 10:08:11 AM  
I don't know about that. I grew up a small step above dirt poor and my family had tons of love, I had a large group of friends and I got my ass beat(well deserved) because I was being held accountable.

Or, What the blue fark does Paul Ryan know about being poor?
 
2014-05-19 10:08:18 AM  
And here I was, thinking they were suffering a deficiency of money.
 
2014-05-19 10:10:10 AM  
Wait, so it does take a village to raise a child?

Lovely, Mr. Ryan. Really, I'm touched. But as every poor person in America will tell you, you can't use friendship tokens to pay the electricity bill, and you can't simply hug the cashier and walk away with groceries.

The author misses the point. You should ask for a loan or free house from your parents. This will help you get through college.
 
2014-05-19 10:10:24 AM  

Generation_D: hinten: So, does that mean that citizens in developing countries are just not in love enough with each other?

It means 6 or 8 generations ago, our side was better at competing had better weapons than their side. Do we owe them now for that? Open question. I doubt highly if the situation were reversed, anyone would be bailing us out though.


Yeah, yeah. Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

And Paul Ryan can eat a dick. Smarmy Eddy Munster Gollum-Smurf lookin' motherfarker.
 
2014-05-19 10:10:27 AM  
I thought the Freakonomics folk determined that the poor actually have much more robust personal networks than the rich. They have to rely on people, because they cannot just throw money at their problems.
 
2014-05-19 10:10:49 AM  
So...Republicans are turning into evil Care Bears?
 
2014-05-19 10:10:55 AM  
This is the worst My Little Pony episode ever.
 
2014-05-19 10:11:57 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Sure is easy to tell that this Randian crapsack has never spent a single day in his life hungry.


The gubermint put him through college and have paid him his entire adult life, which is why he's so against government assistance and services.
 
2014-05-19 10:12:00 AM  
Trolly headline. Ah Monday in farkland.

here's the quote:

"The best bridge to a better life is a job. Work works," he said, to applause. "The best aid is personalized, it's customized, it's direct. And the best way to turn from a vicious cycle of despair and learned helplessness to a virtuous cycle of hope and flourishing, is by embracing the attributes of friendship, accountability, and love."
He continued, "One of the down-side effects of our vaunted War on Poverty is it's reinforced this notion that this is government's responsibility. That that great vaunted civil society that de Tocqueville talked about over a century ago can be better served by central planning in a government."
 
2014-05-19 10:12:10 AM  
d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net
 
2014-05-19 10:13:04 AM  

SlothB77: If we had just one more government program redistributing wealth, we could eradicate poverty.  we are that close, fark nation.


No obviously the solution is to keep the minimum wage below poverty levels. That'll help
 
2014-05-19 10:13:53 AM  
The poor suffer a deficiency of friendship education, accountability and lovingstable family relationships and that is why they most of them are poor.

FTFH
 
2014-05-19 10:14:29 AM  

FIDoAlmighty82: So...Republicans are turning into evil Care Bears?


Not turning into, have been for years and years.
 
2014-05-19 10:14:39 AM  

Danger Mouse: Trolly headline. Ah Monday in farkland.

here's the quote:

"The best bridge to a better life is a job. Work works," he said, to applause. "The best aid is personalized, it's customized, it's direct. And the best way to turn from a vicious cycle of despair and learned helplessness to a virtuous cycle of hope and flourishing, is by embracing the attributes of friendship, accountability, and love."
He continued, "One of the down-side effects of our vaunted War on Poverty is it's reinforced this notion that this is government's responsibility. That that great vaunted civil society that de Tocqueville talked about over a century ago can be better served by central planning in a government."


Useless pap. What is he actually proposing?
 
2014-05-19 10:14:49 AM  

Generation_D: Who needs work when you have handouts.


Like the one all those banks got!

/oh sorry, those were BAILouts
//very, very, very, VERY different
 
2014-05-19 10:14:50 AM  

SlothB77: If we had just one more government program redistributing wealth, we could eradicate poverty.  we are that close, fark nation.


And we are only one more tax cut for the extremely wealthy from full employment.
 
2014-05-19 10:15:58 AM  

factoryconnection: "Indeed, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics' latest survey of consumer expenditure found that the poorest fifth of America's households contributed an average of 4.3 percent of their incomes to charitable organizations in 2007. The richest fifth gave at less than half that rate, 2.1 percent."

Wow.  The poor really don't have any moral backbone, do they Congressman?


Something I pointed out in high school sociology class that was anecdotal but apparently matches with this: when I helped collect for a food drive, we got TONS more food from the smaller houses than the big ones.

The others in my sociology class pointed out that I was obviously wrong because "those people don't contribute to the tax base" and "should not be allowed in town."
 
2014-05-19 10:16:15 AM  

sdd2000: SlothB77: If we had just one more government program redistributing wealth, we could eradicate poverty.  we are that close, fark nation.

And we are only one more tax cut for the extremely wealthy from full employment.


We are that close, Glenn Beck nation!
 
2014-05-19 10:16:16 AM  
This is part and parcel of conservative thinking about the rich and poor in this country: that the poor are so because they lack some basic value - ambition, for example - and the rich are so because they have an abundance of it.

How many actors never make it? Athletes? Small businesses? We only celebrate those who do. Are these people somehow less because a break didn't go their way?

Who here has started a business only to see it fail after putting in every ounce of energy and money they had? Was it your fault or from external causes?
 
2014-05-19 10:16:34 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Danger Mouse: Trolly headline. Ah Monday in farkland.

here's the quote:

"The best bridge to a better life is a job. Work works," he said, to applause. "The best aid is personalized, it's customized, it's direct. And the best way to turn from a vicious cycle of despair and learned helplessness to a virtuous cycle of hope and flourishing, is by embracing the attributes of friendship, accountability, and love."
He continued, "One of the down-side effects of our vaunted War on Poverty is it's reinforced this notion that this is government's responsibility. That that great vaunted civil society that de Tocqueville talked about over a century ago can be better served by central planning in a government."

Useless pap. What is he actually proposing?


That if you turn that frown upside down, everything will be okay!
 
2014-05-19 10:16:56 AM  

SlothB77: If we had just one more government program redistributing wealth, we could eradicate poverty.  we are that close, fark nation.


Fallacy of insufficient options.
 
2014-05-19 10:18:36 AM  

Danger Mouse: Trolly headline. Ah Monday in farkland.

here's the quote:

"The best bridge to a better life is a job. Work works," he said, to applause. "The best aid is personalized, it's customized, it's direct. And the best way to turn from a vicious cycle of despair and learned helplessness to a virtuous cycle of hope and flourishing, is by embracing the attributes of friendship, accountability, and love."
He continued, "One of the down-side effects of our vaunted War on Poverty is it's reinforced this notion that this is government's responsibility. That that great vaunted civil society that de Tocqueville talked about over a century ago can be better served by central planning in a government."



That's just as douche-tastic as the headline made it out to be.
 
2014-05-19 10:19:11 AM  

Nadie_AZ: This is part and parcel of conservative thinking about the rich and poor in this country: that the poor are so because they lack some basic value - ambition, for example - and the rich are so because they have an abundance of it.

How many actors never make it? Athletes? Small businesses? We only celebrate those who do. Are these people somehow less because a break didn't go their way?

Who here has started a business only to see it fail after putting in every ounce of energy and money they had? Was it your fault or from external causes?


Are we including blah people?

I bet we're including blah people.
 
2014-05-19 10:19:23 AM  

factoryconnection: "Indeed, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics' latest survey of consumer expenditure found that the poorest fifth of America's households contributed an average of 4.3 percent of their incomes to charitable organizations in 2007. The richest fifth gave at less than half that rate, 2.1 percent."

Wow.  The poor really don't have any moral backbone, do they Congressman?


Also from the article that quote came from:
"The lowest-income fifth (of the population) always give at more than their capacity,"
 Bad financial management skills are part of the reason why some people are poor, even if they're wasting in a way that makes them feel good about themselves.  Spending more money than you can afford to is just not smart.


/ I wonder if the BLS subtracted the amount each side receives in handouts and/or corporate welfare from their contributions.
 
2014-05-19 10:20:04 AM  
Paul Ryan is the son of wealthy parents.  When his father died, he was the beneficiary of social security benefits, which went to his college fund.  At college, he decided he was a self-made Randian Ubermensch.

That's very easy if you benefit from daddy's money and society's monetary support.  I somehow doubt we'd know his name without either.
 
2014-05-19 10:20:12 AM  
I like to believe that politicians like Ryan and the people that comprise the base of the Republican party tell themselves that poor people are poor because of some character flaw so that they feel okay with the way they treat them. The alternative being that they're all a bunch of enormous assholes, which is just as likely.
 
2014-05-19 10:20:19 AM  
but are they poor because of those things, or do they suffer from those thing because they are poor.


Once I lived the life of a millionaire,
Spent all my money, I just did not care.
Took all my friends out for a good time,
Bought bootleg whiskey, champagne and wine.

Then I began to fall so low,
Lost all my good friends, I did not have nowhere to go.
I get my hands on a dollar again,
I'm gonna hang on to it till that eagle grins.

'Cause no, no, nobody knows you
When you're down and out.
In your pocket, not one penny,
And as for friends, you don't have any.

When you finally get back up on your feet again,
Everybody wants to be your old long-lost friend.
Said it's mighty strange, without a doubt,
Nobody knows you when you're down and out.

When you finally get back upon your feet again,
Everybody wants to be your good old long-lost friend.
Said it's mighty strange,
Nobody knows you,
Nobody knows you,
Nobody knows you when you're down and out.
 
2014-05-19 10:20:35 AM  

Danger Mouse: Trolly headline. Ah Monday in farkland.

here's the quote:

"The best bridge to a better life is a job. Work works," he said, to applause. "The best aid is personalized, it's customized, it's direct. And the best way to turn from a vicious cycle of despair and learned helplessness to a virtuous cycle of hope and flourishing, is by embracing the attributes of friendship, accountability, and love."
He continued, "One of the down-side effects of our vaunted War on Poverty is it's reinforced this notion that this is government's responsibility. That that great vaunted civil society that de Tocqueville talked about over a century ago can be better served by central planning in a government."


This is really helping your/his case.
 
2014-05-19 10:20:51 AM  
Remember, no man is a failure who has friends.
 
2014-05-19 10:20:53 AM  

sdd2000: SlothB77: If we had just one more government program redistributing wealth, we could eradicate poverty.  we are that close, fark nation.

And we are only one more tax cut for the extremely wealthy parasites from full employment.


FTFY
 
2014-05-19 10:21:05 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Poverty is injustice sold as a character flaw.


I really dig that. Succinct, poignant, flows well off of the tongue.
 
2014-05-19 10:22:13 AM  
"The best way to turn from a vicious cycle of despair and learned helplessness to a virtuous cycle of hope and flourishing is by embracing the attributes of friendship, accountability and love."

Weird. I tend to think the best way to turn a vicious cycle of despair and learned helplessness is by funding all levels of advanced education and teaching comprehensive sex education.
 
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