If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(BBC-US)   Three-time Formula One world champion Jack Brabham dies at 88. Subby would wish him godspeed, but that would just slow him down   (bbc.com) divider line 22
    More: Sad, Formula One, David Brabham, Jack Brabham, world championships, Bernie Ecclestone, Australian Air Force, Australian Prime Ministers, Australia's Gold Coast  
•       •       •

183 clicks; posted to Sports » on 19 May 2014 at 2:54 PM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



22 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-05-19 03:00:50 PM  
Here's Jack Brabham at Sebring in the 1959 US GP, pushing his car across the line to ensure the Drivers' Championship.

resources1.news.com.au
 
2014-05-19 03:25:04 PM  

UNC_Samurai: Here's Jack Brabham at Sebring in the 1959 US GP, pushing his car across the line to ensure the Drivers' Championship.


That's a great shot. Haven't seen it before. Did they actually award him points for that?
 
2014-05-19 03:38:51 PM  

crotchgrabber: UNC_Samurai: Here's Jack Brabham at Sebring in the 1959 US GP, pushing his car across the line to ensure the Drivers' Championship.

That's a great shot. Haven't seen it before. Did they actually award him points for that?


Yes.  That finish clinched him the championship.  He ran out of fuel.
 
2014-05-19 03:43:44 PM  
This reminds me, I gotta find out how Schumi is doing.
 
2014-05-19 03:46:11 PM  
I thought nobody in F1 passed.
 
2014-05-19 03:50:41 PM  
One of only three F1 drivers to win a race in a car he constructed. The other two are Dan Gurney and Bruce McLaren, both of who were at times Brabham's teammates. Indeed it was Brabham that got McLaren to England in the first place. Brabham is however still the only driver to win the world championship in a car he also constructed.
 
2014-05-19 03:54:58 PM  

foo monkey: I thought nobody in F1 passed.


He had to get within one second of death and push the button.
 
2014-05-19 04:20:11 PM  

foo monkey: I thought nobody in F1 passed.


He came from an era when passing was much more common in F1.

/ Hell, you'd get 3-4 drivers a year passing in a bad year
 
2014-05-19 06:00:45 PM  
Amazing driver/mechanic/constructor.   His Brabham/Repco just sold at auction too:

https://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1065941
67 Monaco winner.  Definitely the most beautiful era for F1.
 
2014-05-19 06:05:41 PM  

xiola: Amazing driver/mechanic/constructor.   His Brabham/Repco just sold at auction too:

https://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1065941
67 Monaco winner.  Definitely the most beautiful era for F1.


Did you see the special with David Hobbs and Steve Matchett recently about Dan Gurney's Eagle? Love those cars.
 
2014-05-19 06:52:29 PM  

Victoly: foo monkey: I thought nobody in F1 passed.

He came from an era when passing was much more common in F1.

/ Hell, you'd get 3-4 drivers a year passing in a bad year


About a month ago I watched some lengthy highlights of  some F1 seasons from the early 1970s. None of the people involved seemed to have any sense of self-preservation whatsoever. Drivers, pit crews, officials, photographers, fans... None of them gave the remotest flying fark about the dangers involved.

And that was a safer era than Brabham's.

A few of the things I noticed:

1/ The roadside barriers at Monaco's street circuit were on the outside of the footpaths. And there were people walking along the footpaths. If a driver were to spin out, or even just lose the back end of the car, the spectators would have been squished like tomatoes. Where there weren't barriers there were bales of hay. At one stage there was an oil spill on the track so some guys got out on the road with brooms and more hay to clean up the oil as the cars were whizzing past about 2 feet from them. Photographers were standing on the most exposed part of S-bend chicanes hoping to get the perfect shot.The confidence that everybody in attendance seemed to have that the drivers wouldn't miss their line by a foot or so was utterly insane.

2/ No fuel hoses in those days. Re-fueling the tank mid-race took two men. One to unscrew the cap on top of the car and stick in a big funnel, the other to come along with a big bucket/amphora of fuel to pour in.

3/ A huge pall of smoke is rising from the other side of the track? Yeah, that's another driver dead. Here we see driver so and so finishing third. He would tragically lose his life two weeks later during a touring car race in France. That guy there, yeah, his career would end when he broke his legs in a fiery crash in a rally a couple of days after this race.

4/ These days the pit crew stay inside their garages until one of their cars come in, rush out, do their job, and then rush back in. Nobody stays on pit lane any longer than they absolutely have to. Back then, pit lane was the place to hang out and chat. Even as the cars were accelerating out to get back on the track there'd be all kinds of people walking across pit lane to see their friends on the other side. A favourite place for people to stand was the apex of the pit wall, where the drivers would be putting the pedal to the metal and turning into the oncoming traffic.

5/ Jochen Rindt, the only posthumous F1 champion. After 9 of the 13 races of the 1970 season he'd built up such a points lead that even after was killed during practice for the 10th race at Monza he still won the World Drivers' Championship.

6/ At the final Grand Prix of that year in Mexico, some guy got his final placing moved up from around 9th to around 3rd or 4th in a post-race appeal. The reason? He'd been coming 3rd or 4th, but he'd been held up because as soon as the winner crossed the line every man and his dog in the crowd had run out onto the track to celebrate.

It was just mad. I was bursting out laughing at my TV screen every couple of minutes due to the ridiculous OH&S standards of the day.

And again, during Brabham's day it would have been even worse.
 
2014-05-19 07:16:54 PM  

Trapper439: Victoly: foo monkey: I thought nobody in F1 passed.

He came from an era when passing was much more common in F1.

/ Hell, you'd get 3-4 drivers a year passing in a bad year

About a month ago I watched some lengthy highlights of  some F1 seasons from the early 1970s. None of the people involved seemed to have any sense of self-preservation whatsoever. Drivers, pit crews, officials, photographers, fans... None of them gave the remotest flying fark about the dangers involved.

And that was a safer era than Brabham's.

A few of the things I noticed:

1/ The roadside barriers at Monaco's street circuit were on the outside of the footpaths. And there were people walking along the footpaths. If a driver were to spin out, or even just lose the back end of the car, the spectators would have been squished like tomatoes. Where there weren't barriers there were bales of hay. At one stage there was an oil spill on the track so some guys got out on the road with brooms and more hay to clean up the oil as the cars were whizzing past about 2 feet from them. Photographers were standing on the most exposed part of S-bend chicanes hoping to get the perfect shot.The confidence that everybody in attendance seemed to have that the drivers wouldn't miss their line by a foot or so was utterly insane.

2/ No fuel hoses in those days. Re-fueling the tank mid-race took two men. One to unscrew the cap on top of the car and stick in a big funnel, the other to come along with a big bucket/amphora of fuel to pour in.

3/ A huge pall of smoke is rising from the other side of the track? Yeah, that's another driver dead. Here we see driver so and so finishing third. He would tragically lose his life two weeks later during a touring car race in France. That guy there, yeah, his career would end when he broke his legs in a fiery crash in a rally a couple of days after this race.

4/ These days the pit crew stay inside their garages until one of their cars come in, rush out, do their job, and then ru ...


There's been a huge change in the attitude around tracks in the last 30 years or so. Simple reason... TV. Hearing about a fatal accident on the radio, or reading it in the paper the following day is a very removed experience when compared to watching live, with a couple of talking heads trying to convince you how exciting it all is and all of a sudden... shiat goes south. When you're actually at the track it's a lot easier to compartmentalize things if something tragic happens. Especially if you have a job to do. But watching it on TV, you just feel helpless. The outcry for safety (which was long overdue in my opinion) only came when people were seeing their heroes die in wide screen, full color on a Sunday afternoon. You have to remember, the first Indy 500 to be broadcast live, flag to flag wasn't until the mid-80s. NASCARs first year with a full season guaranteed to be on national TV? Yeah, that didn't start out well for them.

After countless drivers, crew members, spectators, etc died in motor sports, the major changes to safety only came after a couple guys died right there on the TV. There hasn't been a driver death in F1 since Ayrton Senna, twenty years ago.
 
2014-05-19 08:26:44 PM  

crotchgrabber: the first Indy 500 to be broadcast live, flag to flag wasn't until the mid-80s.


I remember what a big deal that was. Course the ready TV availability is part of why I loved CART, without cable weren't many NASCAR races to see but CART? Could see everything on ABC.

/seen five racing deaths while watching various forms of racing on TV over the years
 
2014-05-19 09:42:23 PM  
National Hero, what else can I say?

Own car along with Ron Tauranac. That bond is understated by a lot of people. They just clicked. A total combination of pragmatic engineering smarts, driving and political ability.

...Something that is lost when everybody has to drive a car with the same chassis, or you can buy a chassis off the shelf...

I wonder if we can call the Repco V8 a true Australian motor, considering is was derived from a American engine block...bugger it! 'straya!

When I met him once in Adelaide, he didn't seem to be all there at the time. However I glad to shake his hand.

crotchgrabber: Trapper439: Victoly: foo monkey:

After countless drivers, crew members, spectators, etc died in motor sports, the major changes to safety only came after a couple guys died right there on the TV. There hasn't been a driver death in F1 since Ayrton Senna, twenty years ago.


Its still is a sickening surreal feeling when it happens to a Marshall. Last year one died in Canada (not during the race). A wheel came off in Australia and went trough a gap in the fence...
 
2014-05-20 01:57:49 AM  

Trapper439: And that was a safer era than Brabham's.


Well, kinda. Black Jack retired after 1970, so the end of his career reflected standards similar to what you saw. There were improvements, to be sure, like hiring track workers that were mostly useless instead of completely useless, but still. Of course, compared to the safety standards when he started in 1955...

Trapper439: 1/ The roadside barriers at Monaco's street circuit were on the outside of the footpaths.


Even more than that, the curbs weren't the low-profile, wide, gently-sloping rumble strips like they have now; they were squared-off, about 15 cm high, and if you bounce off them, you're likely proper farked. Which leads to...

Trapper439: The confidence that everybody in attendance seemed to have that the drivers wouldn't miss their line by a foot or so was utterly insane.


This is very true, but being able to hold your line in those days was much more important. You tended to give a (relatively) wide berth to the limits of the course, since going over those limits could mean the end of your day at best. And the drivers did back off a little in those areas, and a little means a lot to car control when you've been near the limit. The drivers had to trust that the course workers would stay where they needed, and vice versa.

Trapper439: Where there weren't barriers there were bales of hay.


And that's if you were lucky. Nurburgring basically had no curbs (or very limited), but did have hedges right up alongside the track in some places (Kallenhard, for instance). Others had rail fencing outside the track, tear a car right up. Le Mans had a line of trees on the outside of the first kink past Tertre Rouge, which they painted white so the drivers could see them and avoid them at night. Kyalami had no pit wall, nor did Le Mans. But yeah, no tire barriers, limited guardrails. It seems like the theory was "if it hurts to crash, the drivers will back off so they don't crash."

Trapper439: 2/ No fuel hoses in those days. Re-fueling the tank mid-race took two men. One to unscrew the cap on top of the car and stick in a big funnel, the other to come along with a big bucket/amphora of fuel to pour in.


Really, there were no pit stops in those days. The tires were durable enough to last the race, and the fuel tanks were big enough to carry fuel for the whole race. If you had to come into the pits for any reason, something very bad happened somewhere. Apparently, Brabham were the first to use the modern concept of the pitstop in 1982.

Trapper439: 3/ A huge pall of smoke is rising from the other side of the track? Yeah, that's another driver dead.


It wasn't helped by the fact that the seat was made up by the fuel tank, so you're sitting in about 150 kilos of fuel encased in something that's likely to rupture in a crash and, in rupturing, is likely to ignite its contents. And then there were live experiments with magnesium frames...

And, oh, yeah, in those days, drivers by and large didn't wear belts or harnesses, reasoning that it was better to take your chances being flung from the car than the possible fire.

Trapper439: 4/ These days the pit crew stay inside their garages until one of their cars come in, rush out, do their job, and then rush back in.


That's more strategy than anything else; you don't want to tip your hand as to when you're going to pit, so that your competition can't get the drop on you. But you're right that they don't hang around much after, and that's even with with pit lane being much safer now with speed limits and such (flying tires from Red Bull notwithstanding). And, oh yeah, safety equipment for the pit crew back then? Are you crazy? It's hot out there (and that's from the 90s).

Trapper439: Back then, pit lane was the place to hang out and chat. Even as the cars were accelerating out to get back on the track there'd be all kinds of people walking across pit lane to see their friends on the other side.


So, I play Grand Prix Legends. They have a srs bzns modding community for cars, tracks, physics, etc. One of the new tracks is the Monza 10K circuit with the combined oval and road course. The creators crammed pit lane absolutely full of people, so you can't see anything until you've left your pit box. Fortunately, they're ghosts, so no damage, but it's crazy just how crowded it was.

crotchgrabber: There's been a huge change in the attitude around tracks in the last 30 years or so.


Actually, you can trace the beginnings to Spa 1966, first lap, just past the Masta kink, where Jackie Stewart sat marinating in gasoline for almost a half hour while Graham Hill and Bob Bondurant worked to extricate him. Almost all of the early impetus came from Stewart, even though a good chunk of the other drivers thought he was nuts. But yeah, it took a stupidly long amount of time to get safety standards (barriers, runoff areas, track marshals) up to even a fraction of where they are today. You can find stories of track marshaling from the 60s and 70s that are just stupefying in their insanity.

crotchgrabber: After countless drivers, crew members, spectators, etc died in motor sports, the major changes to safety only came after a couple guys died right there on the TV. There hasn't been a driver death in F1 since Ayrton Senna, twenty years ago.


But the guy before him was... well, OK, one day prior (Ratzenberger), but the guy before him was Elio de Angelis in 1986, and prior to him was Riccardo Paletti in 1982. IMHO the biggest single stride in safety was the carbon fiber tub. Before that, the top half of the cockpit was for aerodynamics, because it sure as hell didn't offer any protection. Of course, that led to a fair amount of complacency, which led to Imola '94, but deaths in F1 dropped off a cliff after carbon fiber came into common use in the mid-80s. Everything since then has been refinement. It was accelerated by the death of Senna, but it would have eventually happened one way or another.
 
2014-05-20 03:35:45 AM  

Victoly: Are you crazy? It's hot out there (and that's from the 90s


There's video on YouTube of when F1 ran in Detroit. The pit crews are just hanging around pit row because the garages were right there. Just the pit wall, and hell why would you be on the non-work side of that? And of course they're wearing short sleeve shirts and shorts.

You can find stories of track marshaling from the 60s and 70s that are just stupefying in their insanity.

Like not having suitable fire extinguishing equipment on hand or anywhere close by and instead just watching a driver plead helplessly as a fellow racer gets roasted. And that's just one example.

but it would have eventually happened one way or another

And let's not forget that in the early 90s, the cars didn't offer much in the way of side protection www.petrolhead.com.br
 
2014-05-20 03:37:19 AM  
oops, that's because the garages weren't right there, they weren't a part of pit row...
 
2014-05-20 05:18:31 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Victoly: Are you crazy? It's hot out there (and that's from the 90s

There's video on YouTube of when F1 ran in Detroit. The pit crews are just hanging around pit row because the garages were right there. Just the pit wall, and hell why would you be on the non-work side of that? And of course they're wearing short sleeve shirts and shorts.

You can find stories of track marshaling from the 60s and 70s that are just stupefying in their insanity.

Like not having suitable fire extinguishing equipment on hand or anywhere close by and instead just watching a driver plead helplessly as a fellow racer gets roasted. And that's just one example.

but it would have eventually happened one way or another

And let's not forget that in the early 90s, the cars didn't offer much in the way of side protection [www.petrolhead.com.br image 500x327]


Damn those cars (of that era) looked nice.

Loud too.....Cossie V8 in that one?

The most depressing thing as a kid is when you could hear them from where you were, but not be there.

Still not sure about the noise these days. For some reason they sound better on the TV than in real life over the last few races....then again it might simply be engine development?
 
2014-05-20 09:32:01 AM  

Boomstickz: then again it might simply be engine development?


Well given all three engine makers are still tweaking the settings on the engines, the sound has changed. Of course if your Mercedes what you don't want to hear is that Renault is finding where the missing horsepower was. There's a German who's going to have a huge grin on his face if they find enough of it to make his car run with the Mercedes cars.
 
2014-05-20 01:44:20 PM  

WhyteRaven74: There's video on YouTube of when F1 ran in Detroit. The pit crews are just hanging around pit row because the garages were right there. Just the pit wall, and hell why would you be on the non-work side of that? And of course they're wearing short sleeve shirts and shorts.


WhyteRaven74: oops, that's because the garages weren't right there, they weren't a part of pit row...


Yeah, that shiat wouldn't fly anymore. Either they'd upgrade the pits like they did to Monte Carlo, or they'd drop the race (and it's not Monte Carlo, so...).

WhyteRaven74: You can find stories of track marshaling from the 60s and 70s that are just stupefying in their insanity.

Like not having suitable fire extinguishing equipment on hand or anywhere close by and instead just watching a driver plead helplessly as a fellow racer gets roasted. And that's just one example.


Or having the fire equipment in the hands of some old geezer who belongs in a nursing home (poor old bastard had no idea what was going on, even after a driver grabbed the fire bottle from him and ran off to put the fire out). Or the Jackie Stewart situation I mentioned (Hill and Bondurant borrowed a tool kit from a spectator to work on the car). It's pretty bad when the drivers are better course workers than the course workers.

WhyteRaven74: but it would have eventually happened one way or another

And let's not forget that in the early 90s, the cars didn't offer much in the way of side protection


No, and that's a product of the evolution of the cars. They had always been built that way, so let's keep building them that way. As the engineers gained more experience with carbon fiber and monocoques and aerodynamics, they would have eventually started building the sides higher for more structural strength and better airflow (not necessarily driver protection, although that might have been a side benefit).

Boomstickz: Damn those cars (of that era) looked nice.


Again, that's a product of the evolution of the cars and regulations.  Steve Matchett was talking on a recent weekend about that, and basically said they built them like that because they didn't know any better. They looked nice, but the design wasn't as good aerodynamically (better than before, but not as good as today). If the aerodynamicists knew then what they know today, they would never have built them like that, they would have had the high noses like today* last year. Although the previous year to that Jordan (1990) saw the first of the high noses with the Tyrrell 019, with several more coming in 1991. The rear wings of that era were legislated out of existence after 1994, but there's no telling what they might have looked like after twenty years.

Boomstickz: Loud too.....Cossie V8 in that one?


Well, it's a Ford-branded engine (HB series), but Cosworth did the design work on it. It was the replacement for the DF* series.

* The dicknoses of this year? That's the result of rules lawyering. The FIA should have seen them coming 1.609 kilometers away, and if they didn't want them, they should have written the new nose rule to preclude their existence.
 
2014-05-20 07:32:32 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Boomstickz: then again it might simply be engine development?

Well given all three engine makers are still tweaking the settings on the engines, the sound has changed. Of course if your Mercedes what you don't want to hear is that Renault is finding where the missing horsepower was. There's a German who's going to have a huge grin on his face if they find enough of it to make his car run with the Mercedes cars.


Depends if his young Australian team-bloke gets the drop on him.

I was at Melbourne at Turn 3 this year...Very strange. They sounded pretty cool over the other side of the track.

I would love to be able compare the noise from the last turbo era, sadly the two races I went to I was more concerned with falling off Dads shoulders and dealing with the massive (for this particular 6 year old) ear muffs.

Victoly:


Well, it's a Ford-branded engine (HB series), but Cosworth did the design work on it. It was the replacement for the DF* series.

Yeah Jordan went to that stupid Yamaha V12 the next year. Bit of a mistake with that one.
 
2014-05-20 10:28:38 PM  

crotchgrabber: Did you see the special with David Hobbs and Steve Matchett recently about Dan Gurney's Eagle? Love those cars.


In my opinion the most beautiful F1 car ever
 
Displayed 22 of 22 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report