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(Rolling Stone)   Rolling Stone decides to get outraged over the juvenile justice system, claiming children are tried in "kangaroo courts" for adult crimes. Rolling Stone should stick to reporting things they know about, like...well. This is awkward   (rollingstone.com) divider line 76
    More: Fail, country legal systems, juvenile courts, immigration courts, needy, criminal procedure, supreme court cases  
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6190 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 May 2014 at 3:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-18 06:09:19 PM  

xanadian: Except kangaroos are cute.  I don't see the problem here.

Also: how else are we going to continue to have "Made in America" stuff at "Made in China" wages, without a steady supply of prison labor?

I saw this show about kangaroos. when the mother gives birth, the little red maggot crawls up the side of the mother to get into the pouch. it's farkin' gross.

or not, I don't know.
 
2014-05-18 06:21:35 PM  
I can say from personal experience that the juvenile justice system in south Florida is a joke. Nothing is ever done. We arrested a tiny 12yr old after he stole a vehicle and then bailed out in a hit and run on an old man on a scooter. Subsequently, at least 2 other municipalities, aside from my department, dropped felony arrests on him ranging from robbery, burglary, grand theft auto to stealing bikes.

He's out and about, hanging out with much older gang member, commiting burglaries and selling drugs for them.

No juvenile in south Florida faces consequences for their crimes.
 
2014-05-18 06:51:12 PM  
memecrunch.com
 
2014-05-18 07:12:00 PM  
To be fair, the juvinile system is actually a kangaroo court, with no right to either an attorney nor a jury. I had to witness as a child a friend run through, and convicted, in that system even with exculpatory evidence presented right in the courtroom. They considered actual proof of his innocence completely secondary to the charge at hand. The matter of guilt was never an issue with them, only sentencing. He was getting convicted no matterw What, but the evidence got him a very very light sentence at least.
 
2014-05-18 07:13:34 PM  

soporific: A lot of people think that being tried as a juvenile is simply a slap on the wrist. (thanks to TV and the movies) That's why these things can happen, because no one believes that there is a problem. In fact, I'd wager that a lot of people think the juvenile system needs to be much harsher to be "tough on crime."

This is the kind of thing that everyone needs to know about because it's what can happen to your kids. We like to think that it would never happen to our kids, because our kids are good and never get in trouble. In fact, those are the kinds of kids who could be abused the most by the system, as the parents are completely unprepared to deal with it.

This is a very good article. It reminds me of the article Rolling Stone wrote in 2009 about how the court system was unfairly stacked against homeowners in the aftermath of the economic collapse. Up until then, I had no idea what was really going on in there. I believe that article helped enact a few of the reforms that helped homeowners.

Subby is either trolling or an idiot. Your headline is bad and you should feel bad.


This article isn't that bad but the homeowners one was worse, most went into the deal should have known they would be farked buying a home with an ARM they couldn't afford once the rate went up.
 
2014-05-18 07:17:55 PM  
Subby, are you former General Stanley McChrystal, by any chance?
 
2014-05-18 07:26:26 PM  

OgreMagi: Parents, teach your kids the right things to say, for example:

"Show me the warrant."
"Am I free to go?"
"I want an attorney."

Etc.  If you are in court, that last one is the only thing you should say.  Do not plea.  Do not talk to the prosecutor.  Just keep telling the judge you want an attorney.  But say it respectfully!  That's damn important.  Judges get very pissed off if you are an asshole in his court.

BTW, a standard cop tactic is to answer your question with a question.  For example, asking "am I under arrest?" will often get the response of, "do you want to be?"  Just repeat the question.  Refuse to answer his questions.

You do not have to answer any questions.  If a cop insists you must answer his questions, he is lying.

/fark law ged filed in office


Eh, I taught my daughter this but now she lives in the South. It ain't the NW with all them civil liberites and such. Talk like that will bring trouble in some parts.
 
2014-05-18 07:53:04 PM  
Ultimately irrelevant.
They can either choose to please guilty to a minor charge, or roll the dice on a much larger one. Pleading guilty is almost always the best choice.
My brother once bought some obscure DMT like drug from china and the shipment got intercepted.
His choice was to either plead no contest to possession for a six month sentence, or plead not guilty to a trafficking charge that levied ten years in federal prison.
The lawyer was nothing but a formality.
 
2014-05-18 07:57:52 PM  

Mugato: xanadian: Except kangaroos are cute.  I don't see the problem here

Obviously you've never boxed one. They fight dirty.


I realize we're getting way off the subject, but a kangaroo's kick is capable of disemboweling an opponent, even a human.
 
2014-05-18 08:03:48 PM  

OgreMagi: Parents, teach your kids the right things to say, for example:

"Show me the warrant."
"Am I free to go?"
"I want an attorney."

Etc.  If you are in court, that last one is the only thing you should say.  Do not plea.  Do not talk to the prosecutor.  Just keep telling the judge you want an attorney.  But say it respectfully!  That's damn important.  Judges get very pissed off if you are an asshole in his court.

BTW, a standard cop tactic is to answer your question with a question.  For example, asking "am I under arrest?" will often get the response of, "do you want to be?"  Just repeat the question.  Refuse to answer his questions.

You do not have to answer any questions.  If a cop insists you must answer his questions, he is lying.

/fark law ged filed in office


Be careful with that last one. The kid will eat pavement.
 
2014-05-18 08:05:23 PM  

soporific: Subby is either trolling or an idiot. Your headline is bad and you should feel bad.


Not Subby, but I think he/she was making a joke about how everyone complains that Rolling Stone used to be a great mag, and turned into "People Magazine".

Which isn't true, of course.  Yes, they'll put Justin Beiber on the cover, but they still do pretty good journalism at the same time.  There's lots of pages in a magazine, plenty of room for puff pieces to pay the bills.
 
2014-05-18 08:14:19 PM  

SilentStrider: link

right.
Sorry subby, but Rolling Stone might on to something here.


All courts are kangaroo courts, the odds are stacked against any defendant before they appear.
 
2014-05-18 08:19:39 PM  

Another Government Employee: OgreMagi: Parents, teach your kids the right things to say, for example:

"Show me the warrant."
"Am I free to go?"
"I want an attorney."

Etc.  If you are in court, that last one is the only thing you should say.  Do not plea.  Do not talk to the prosecutor.  Just keep telling the judge you want an attorney.  But say it respectfully!  That's damn important.  Judges get very pissed off if you are an asshole in his court.

BTW, a standard cop tactic is to answer your question with a question.  For example, asking "am I under arrest?" will often get the response of, "do you want to be?"  Just repeat the question.  Refuse to answer his questions.

You do not have to answer any questions.  If a cop insists you must answer his questions, he is lying.

/fark law ged filed in office

Be careful with that last one. The kid will eat pavement.


Well, daddy needs some retirement money.
 
2014-05-18 10:19:59 PM  

LegacyDL: ..but Boomers are right about everything!

I mean aren't The Beatles the best band of all time, and isn't "Revolver" the best album ever made and makes Mozart's entire body of work look like a Creed/Nickelback mashup?


No.

/boomer
 
2014-05-19 12:06:32 AM  
My 17 year old daughter was bullied by a cop into consenting to search her car several years back. She was not allowed to call me to ask if she should consent or not. The cop told her if she had nothing to hide she shouldn't have a problem with him taking a quick look. She said yes. Next thing she knew, she was sitting in the back of a police cruiser so she wouldn't interfere while they unloaded the contents of her car and trunk onto the gas station where she was pulled over parking lot. They found nothing. Gave her a ticket for a blinker violation and left her to reload her car. She on her way to her part time job and was 15 minutes late because of it. Never consent to search your vehicle, ever.

Kids are bullied by authority many times.
 
2014-05-19 12:16:02 AM  
Subby has clearly looked at an issue of Rolling Stone beyond the cover, nor heard of Matt Taibbi.
 
2014-05-19 12:26:11 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: DrBenway: Rolling Stone used to have a pretty good reputation for digging into stories like this. Do they still do longer form stuff, or is this the extent of it?

Matt Taibbi did some of the hands-down best coverage of the shenanigans going on in the financial sector, not just the mortgage scandal but things like the rigging of municipal bonds. Sadly, he left for First Look media and hasn't done so much as a blog post in months.


Taibbi was EXCELLENT. His book Griftopia goes even further into the home market failure.
 
2014-05-19 12:28:26 AM  
Kangaroo done hung the guilty with the innocent.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SOOgbgRV3Ug
 
2014-05-19 12:34:02 AM  

JK8Fan: My 17 year old daughter was bullied by a cop into consenting to search her car several years back. She was not allowed to call me to ask if she should consent or not. The cop told her if she had nothing to hide she shouldn't have a problem with him taking a quick look. She said yes. Next thing she knew, she was sitting in the back of a police cruiser so she wouldn't interfere while they unloaded the contents of her car and trunk onto the gas station where she was pulled over parking lot. They found nothing. Gave her a ticket for a blinker violation and left her to reload her car. She on her way to her part time job and was 15 minutes late because of it. Never consent to search your vehicle, ever.

Kids are bullied by authority many times.


I had this happen to me, except I didn't consent to the search.  My trunk was full of garbage.  I mean literally garbage.  Old college papers and stuff I just threw in the back of my trunk and never threw away.  They made me wait like 3 hours while they got a warrant to search my trunk.  Then they pulled out all the stuff onto the side of the road.  When they were done they said I could put it back.  I said, its all garbage, You put it back, I didn't take it out.  They said they'd give me a ticket for littering if I didn't put it back.  I said go ahead, I'd like to see the judge who would agree I was littering when you put all this stuff on the street.  So they put it back in my trunk and swore at me.  It seemed like a moral victory at the time.

By the way they said the justification was that someone reported I was casing the neighborhood and looking like I was going to rob some house.  This while I was just driving home from a friend's house.  Yeah right.
 
2014-05-19 12:43:55 AM  

ArkAngel: In re Gault, the mentioned case that brought the Constitution to juvenile courts is quite farked up.

Gerald Gault was accused of making an obscene phone call by a neighbor. He was arrested without his parents being informed, held without notification of the charges, not allowed an attorney, and not allowed to confront his accuser. The witnesses weren't sworn in and there was no record taken.

He was then sentenced to six years in juvenile detention. If he was 18 when accused, the maximum would have been two months and a $50 fine.


But did the judge's buddy in the prison industry get a kickback? Because that's what matters.
 
2014-05-19 12:49:27 AM  
Awkward is subby not realizing this is the kinda thing Rolling Stone's been writing about for years.

Oh wait, no, I'm used to subby failing at everything.
 
2014-05-19 01:43:25 AM  
Too bad council won't help them anyway. In juvi court, you are guilty until proven innocent. Also, any council they get, are just going to be expediters for the prosecutor.
 
2014-05-19 02:30:47 AM  

Fark like a Barsoomian: Uh this also doesn't work if their "representation" is actively working to help convict them.


The quote that sticks with me about poor kids and public defenders is 'they plead you guilty' Seriously counsel means a public defender reads the charges five minutes before the proceedings, walks into court without talking to you, takes the plea bargain and that's that.

Not to mention prosecutors and defense lawyers horse trading. Good for you if you're the 'mixed up kid' with wealthy parents who kicked down a few grand. Bad if your the 'menace to society' with poor parents.
 
2014-05-19 04:08:00 AM  
Rolling Stone might have gone through a sickening yuppie period with cologne ads back in the late 20th century, but their socio-political arguments have been spot on, and have caused tubes of butthurt with social conservatives because they are such a slap in the face.
 
2014-05-19 05:46:27 AM  

profplump: Mugato: If the article is true then that's pretty farked up.

It is, unfortunately, pretty accurate.

But it's hardly unexpected in a system where you can't choose to act as an adult until you are 18, but you can be held responsible as an adult when you are 12. Or a system where a trial that decides where who will be your legal parent doesn't include you as a party to the case (so you aren't even entitled to access to the sealed court records, let alone representation at the trial). Or a system that sees the problem of poor school attendance and thinks the solution is jail time for the young person in question -- you know, because being in jail makes it so much more likely for a person to attend their classes.

As has been noted by jurists for decades, we like to say that we treat children gently, and use that as an justification for their reduced freedoms, but we often both withhold rights from them and hold them just as accountable as older people.



Mike Males called that 'child when convenient, adult when convenient'

I always loved the justifications given for attempting to pass laws forbidding people under from playing games like GTA.  They're uniquely impulsive, reckless, impressionable, etc. and that justifies banning them from accessing that kind of media.  The same legislators were usually big on trying people under 18 as adults on the grounds that they knew better/knew right from wrong.
 
2014-05-19 11:37:07 AM  
Your hate for the Rolling Stone aside, subby. This has been reported on a lot of very reputable sources. One might even say that you, and not the Rolling Stone, are the who should stick to what you........ well, this is awkward.
 
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