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(Globe and Mail)   "You can't destroy a community like this. My heart goes out to kids with autism. But no one told me they'd be leaving the house"   (theglobeandmail.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Doug Ford, implements  
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12470 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 May 2014 at 1:07 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-18 02:30:00 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: SecretAgentWoman: Benevolent Misanthrope: It's a little more complicated than that,  subby.

I watched the neighbourhood I grew up in completely changed by a "multi-treatment facility".  It was a quiet place, people were nice, we kids could play outside, nobody got broken in on... nice neighbourhood.  Very suburban.  Then, we got a group home.  What can I say - mentally ill teenagers act out.  Within 3 months, there were break-ins, cars keyed, fights in the alleyway, teenage kids on "free time" terrorizing the kids from the neighbourhood, cops being called day and night, ambulances pulling up day and night... it did ruin the neighbourhood.  The first argument from the workers was that everyone were just prejudiced against the mentally ill, and no one could prove it was "their" kids doing that stuff.  So some neighbours got security cameras and caught the little bastards red-handed.  Then the tune changed to "need for tolerance and understanding".  But it's hard to be tolerant when your home has lost thousands in value and your family no longer feel safe.  And even if the kid got sent to juvie, another one came in.  The behaviours didn't change.

So, yes - if I'd spent 30 years paying off a mortgage on a house in a nice neighbourhood, and those kinds of behaviours started happening because a group home came in, I'd be pissed off, too.

That said, there is a need for better mental health services, especially for juveniles.  I'd like to see a tiered approach by which more levels are added, so that the kids who are placed in group homes in nicer neighbourhoods are ready to function socially there.  But maybe we should concentrate on actually offering mental health services first.

But the bad ones can go to the bad neighborhoods freely? NIMBY is crap. It doesn't matter location, it obviously matters what treatment and services these kids are getting. Sounds like they need more of both, and better supervision.

No, that's not my meaning and stop intentionally taking out ...


I'll back you up on this.  I got what you were saying the first time around.  There are some kids who are prepared to be part of a particular community, and others who, through no fault of their own, are not yet ready.  It doesn't matter what country we're talking about, be it Canada, The Netherlands, or the USA, mental health services are woefully lacking in resources and far too often people are placed into a situation, in your case a neighborhood, where they aren't prepared to function as a normal member of society.  We need more facilities for a wider range of treatment options, rather than just taking a bunch of kids and sticking them in a house where they aren't capable of being members of the community.
 
2014-05-18 02:31:58 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: It's a little more complicated than that,  subby.

I watched the neighbourhood I grew up in completely changed by a "multi-treatment facility".  It was a quiet place, people were nice, we kids could play outside, nobody got broken in on... nice neighbourhood.  Very suburban.  Then, we got a group home.  What can I say - mentally ill teenagers act out.  Within 3 months, there were break-ins, cars keyed, fights in the alleyway, teenage kids on "free time" terrorizing the kids from the neighbourhood, cops being called day and night, ambulances pulling up day and night... it did ruin the neighbourhood.  The first argument from the workers was that everyone were just prejudiced against the mentally ill, and no one could prove it was "their" kids doing that stuff.  So some neighbours got security cameras and caught the little bastards red-handed.  Then the tune changed to "need for tolerance and understanding".  But it's hard to be tolerant when your home has lost thousands in value and your family no longer feel safe.  And even if the kid got sent to juvie, another one came in.  The behaviours didn't change.

So, yes - if I'd spent 30 years paying off a mortgage on a house in a nice neighbourhood, and those kinds of behaviours started happening because a group home came in, I'd be pissed off, too.

That said, there is a need for better mental health services, especially for juveniles.  I'd like to see a tiered approach by which more levels are added, so that the kids who are placed in group homes in nicer neighbourhoods are ready to function socially there.  But maybe we should concentrate on actually offering mental health services first.



And yet, the group home that was 5 houses down the block from me was peaceful and calm while I was growing up. I've been around for 40 years, and there's never been any trouble with that house or in the neighborhood.

Almost as if it's not the kids that are the problem, but the quality of care that causes situations like that.
 
2014-05-18 02:34:25 PM  
what a jackass.    Also of course he defends his bnrother as he knows as soon as his brother is out of office he is going to be out of his cushy job.
 
2014-05-18 02:35:08 PM  

hardinparamedic: They are not as violent or as hard to handle as you claim they are.


So you're saying that some don't go into fits of rage. That's cool. Now if you're claiming that none go into fits of rage I'm going to ask you to fark the fark off.
 
2014-05-18 02:35:11 PM  

Eirik: TV's Vinnie: This story smells a lot like Reagan's "Welfare Queen" bullsh*t.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2013/12/lind a_ taylor_welfare_queen_ronald_reagan_made_her_a_notorious_american_villa in.html


So of course, the Reagan solution was "cut off welfare for EVERYBODY, even the innocent!".
 
2014-05-18 02:39:22 PM  

TV's Vinnie: WTF is so very wrong with that family? Defective chromazone? Gypsy curse?


It sure wasn't thinner.
 
2014-05-18 02:42:30 PM  
i've worked in several group homes, including one for retarded sex offenders. i don't think the neighbors knew about that part. some were perfectly accepted parts of the community, and never caused problems. however, on my first day at a new group home i forgot to lock the front door with my key when I came in, and as soon as I walked away a big, very engergetic, severely retarded guy bolted to the middle of the street. people were around gawking, and me and my coworker had to resort to wrapping him in a blanket so we could carry him inside.

i image that if potential homebuyers near there knew that that kind of thing happened in the area, they might want to pay less for their house than they might otherwise, and might be apprehensive about letting their children play outside.
 
2014-05-18 02:43:22 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Eirik: TV's Vinnie: This story smells a lot like Reagan's "Welfare Queen" bullsh*t.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2013/12/lind a_ taylor_welfare_queen_ronald_reagan_made_her_a_notorious_american_villa in.html

So of course, the Reagan solution was "cut off welfare for EVERYBODY, even the innocent!".


http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1970_2019USb_15s2 li 111mcn_40t_40_Welfare_Spending_Chart#view

Hey, you're right.  According to this chart of federal welfare spending I found over the last 40 years, Welfare spending was slashed from $95.4 billion in 1980 (the last year of the Carter Administration) down to a paltry $146.69 in 1988.

Must be the new math.
 
2014-05-18 02:45:52 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: So you're saying that some don't go into fits of rage. That's cool. Now if you're claiming that none go into fits of rage I'm going to ask you to fark the fark off.


YMMV, but every one I've ever had with a psychotic break have had other comorbidities, such as schizophrenia or ODD/BPD.

Of course, my threshold for knocking someone out is much lower than residential treatment facilities can get away with. While I can fight with them, I really don't care to.

/I've come to love Haldol and Geodon far, far more since I started working with kids.
 
2014-05-18 02:52:28 PM  
FFS THERE'S ANOTHER ONE!?!?
 
2014-05-18 02:56:45 PM  
I recall there's a similar type of center in Connecticut called Chapel Haven, a few blocks away from Yale's main campus. They've got dorm-style rooms and also bought out some houses in the area for their more higher-functioning autistics. No criminally insane folks, but certainly some that need supervision. They're taught to use the bus system to get around and are tolerated by the locals. TLC was actually thinking of doing a reality show over there, but the kids the director picked were so articulate and well-adjusted that the producers didn't think they were "Aspergery" enough and the series was canned in development.

But yeah, this thing here smells of insensitivity and intolerance all around.
 
2014-05-18 02:58:00 PM  

Eirik: TV's Vinnie: Eirik: TV's Vinnie: This story smells a lot like Reagan's "Welfare Queen" bullsh*t.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2013/12/lind a_ taylor_welfare_queen_ronald_reagan_made_her_a_notorious_american_villa in.html

So of course, the Reagan solution was "cut off welfare for EVERYBODY, even the innocent!".

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1970_2019USb_15s2 li 111mcn_40t_40_Welfare_Spending_Chart#view

Hey, you're right.  According to this chart of federal welfare spending I found over the last 40 years, Welfare spending was slashed from $95.4 billion in 1980 (the last year of the Carter Administration) down to a paltry $146.69 in 1988.

Must be the new math.


Because prices in 2014 are the same as they were in 1980 (rolls eyes).
 
2014-05-18 02:58:35 PM  

Eirik: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1970_2019USb_15s2 li 111mcn_40t_40_Welfare_Spending_Chart#view

Hey, you're right.  According to this chart of federal welfare spending I found over the last 40 years, Welfare spending was slashed from $95.4 billion in 1980 (the last year of the Carter Administration) down to a paltry $146.69 in 1988.

Must be the new math.


Time value of money and per capita spending, HOW DOES IT WORK.
 
2014-05-18 03:01:44 PM  
I think a lot depends on the groups running it. There are some that are handled very well, have adequate caretakers, appropriate safeguards, carefully screen who will be staying there, and are genuinely in it for the benefit of the mentally ill and the surrounding neighbors.

Then there are those that are in it for the Medicare and Medicaid benefits and do just the bare minimum to get it. There are also those who really want to help but have no clue what they're doing.

Unfortunately, you basically only hear about the bad ones. There's been one case in the news here for the past 6 months or so where a caretaker took some kids to the park, wasn't paying attention, and one of them stabbed a jogger to death. The victim's family isn't as mad at the kid as they are at the company that runs the home where he's staying because apparently there have been other problems as well, just nothing this tragic.
 
2014-05-18 03:04:29 PM  

Eirik: TV's Vinnie: This story smells a lot like Reagan's "Welfare Queen" bullsh*t.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2013/12/lind a_ taylor_welfare_queen_ronald_reagan_made_her_a_notorious_american_villa in.html


Black woman in the ghetto games the welfare system: OMG WELFARE QUEEN! MOOCHERS! LEECHES! SHUT DOWN ALL WELFARE AND TOSS EVERYONE OUT! EVEN THE INNOCENT!!

Fat Rich White CEO games the stock market and makes billions: What a wonderful job creator you are. here, have some more tax cuts and a government subsidy.
 
2014-05-18 03:07:52 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: I live two blocks from a homeless shelter. We receive maybe 3-5 sex offender notices per week. I'll trade you.


Depends on whether, for the most part, they're child molesters, rapists, once solicited a prostitute, or were arrested for urinating in public.
 
2014-05-18 03:10:51 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Eirik: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1970_2019USb_15s2 li 111mcn_40t_40_Welfare_Spending_Chart#view

Hey, you're right.  According to this chart of federal welfare spending I found over the last 40 years, Welfare spending was slashed from $95.4 billion in 1980 (the last year of the Carter Administration) down to a paltry $146.69 in 1988.

Must be the new math.

Time value of money and per capita spending, HOW DOES IT WORK.


Yeah, did you notice he picked nominal dollars for his chart? I tried switching to 2009 dollars per capita, and it came out more or less flat through the Reagan years.

I also don't remember Reagan actually getting any big welfare cuts through during his time in office - the fulmination against so-called "welfare queens" took until Clinton (and a Republican Congress) to bear fruit. It still doesn't change the fact that "welfare queen" rhetoric is fundamentally dishonest by representing a radically atypical case as the norm.
 
2014-05-18 03:11:58 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Eirik: TV's Vinnie: Eirik: TV's Vinnie: This story smells a lot like Reagan's "Welfare Queen" bullsh*t.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2013/12/lind a_ taylor_welfare_queen_ronald_reagan_made_her_a_notorious_american_villa in.html

So of course, the Reagan solution was "cut off welfare for EVERYBODY, even the innocent!".

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1970_2019USb_15s2 li 111mcn_40t_40_Welfare_Spending_Chart#view

Hey, you're right.  According to this chart of federal welfare spending I found over the last 40 years, Welfare spending was slashed from $95.4 billion in 1980 (the last year of the Carter Administration) down to a paltry $146.69 in 1988.

Must be the new math.

Because prices in 2014 are the same as they were in 1980 (rolls eyes).


Reading is hard. He quoted 1980 and 1988, the eight years of Reagan's presidency. Not 1980 and 2014, which would be irrelevant.
 
2014-05-18 03:12:13 PM  
Has anyone thought about giving the group home a supply of Haribo sugar free gummy bears?

That'd keep the kids under control.
 
2014-05-18 03:12:55 PM  

Paris1127: thismomentinblackhistory: I live two blocks from a homeless shelter. We receive maybe 3-5 sex offender notices per week. I'll trade you.

Depends on whether, for the most part, they're child molesters, rapists, once solicited a prostitute, or were arrested for urinating in public.


The last one was rape on his girlfriend's grandchildren. It specifies whether the victim is a minor, the offender's picture, height, weight, tattoos, etc. We don't have kids and we choose to live downtown.

I've thought about saving them but they're kind of like coupons for a store I never go to.
 
2014-05-18 03:25:50 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: Paris1127: thismomentinblackhistory: I live two blocks from a homeless shelter. We receive maybe 3-5 sex offender notices per week. I'll trade you.

Depends on whether, for the most part, they're child molesters, rapists, once solicited a prostitute, or were arrested for urinating in public.

The last one was rape on his girlfriend's grandchildren. It specifies whether the victim is a minor, the offender's picture, height, weight, tattoos, etc. We don't have kids and we choose to live downtown.

I've thought about saving them but they're kind of like coupons for a store I never go to.


Cheap (creepy) wallpaper? I'm moving into a somewhat depressed neighborhood soon, so I'm wondering if this is what I get to look forward to... I hope not...
 
2014-05-18 03:28:29 PM  

Paris1127: thismomentinblackhistory: Paris1127: thismomentinblackhistory: I live two blocks from a homeless shelter. We receive maybe 3-5 sex offender notices per week. I'll trade you.

Depends on whether, for the most part, they're child molesters, rapists, once solicited a prostitute, or were arrested for urinating in public.

The last one was rape on his girlfriend's grandchildren. It specifies whether the victim is a minor, the offender's picture, height, weight, tattoos, etc. We don't have kids and we choose to live downtown.

I've thought about saving them but they're kind of like coupons for a store I never go to.

Cheap (creepy) wallpaper? I'm moving into a somewhat depressed neighborhood soon, so I'm wondering if this is what I get to look forward to... I hope not...


I was thinking offbeat Christmas cards....
 
2014-05-18 03:29:46 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: moeburn: I thought we were talking about a house for 5 autistic kids, not a group home for troubled teens?

Ever been attacked by an autistic kid? My friends kid is autistic and pretty okay most of the time but one time when the mom was visiting he went from zero the feral in about two seconds. Full on primate biting, scratching, feral rage. He also got thrown out of the local school's special ed program when he bit one of the handlers so hard the woman had to go to the hospital for stitches.

They're not all Rain Man.


True. I'm guessing these are higher functioning kids on the spectrum.

They aren't usually known for criminal activity unless it is computer hacking. They will also have personal support workers to help them adapt to suburban living.
 
2014-05-18 03:29:53 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I had no idea that there were Canadians that were utterly horrible people without any redeeming qualities whatsoever.


ROWSDOWER!
 
2014-05-18 03:32:47 PM  

hardinparamedic: Monkeyhouse Zendo: So you're saying that some don't go into fits of rage. That's cool. Now if you're claiming that none go into fits of rage I'm going to ask you to fark the fark off.

YMMV, but every one I've ever had with a psychotic break have had other comorbidities, such as schizophrenia or ODD/BPD.

Of course, my threshold for knocking someone out is much lower than residential treatment facilities can get away with. While I can fight with them, I really don't care to.

/I've come to love Haldol and Geodon far, far more since I started working with kids.


Haldol, take me away!
 
2014-05-18 03:37:57 PM  
Clean your house Canada.

/like you too much to see you live with that
 
2014-05-18 03:47:28 PM  

lindalouwho: THERE'S TWO OF THEM?!!

/Ford's, I mean


sure haven't: FFS THERE'S ANOTHER ONE!?!?


At the moment they are the only two in public life, although they are grooming their sister's kid Mikey...

There is another brother too, but he has the good sense to stick to the family business and keep the rest under his hat.  And I suppose dear old (dead) dad is largely to blame for the lot, with his dabbling in Provincial (think State level) politics for one term a while ago*

*The Premier at the time, Mike Harris, a proto tea bagger, reduced the number of ridings (to better align with the federal ridings) to the expense of Doug Sr.'s seat, making a point to not parachute him in elsewhere largely because he was too right wing...
 
2014-05-18 03:55:05 PM  

hardinparamedic: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Ever been attacked by an autistic kid? My friends kid is autistic and pretty okay most of the time but one time when the mom was visiting he went from zero the feral in about two seconds. Full on primate biting, scratching, feral rage. He also got thrown out of the local school's special ed program when he bit one of the handlers so hard the woman had to go to the hospital for stitches.

I deal with Autistic children every day. A good deal of the ill and injured children I transport are autistic.

They are not as violent or as hard to handle as you claim they are.

/and there are drugs for that.


But the drugs don't always work as advertised or over the long term. We are still looking for the magic cocktail for our son. ERs will give us a couple mgs of Ativan and send us home. Pediatric in-patient psych wards are typically "at acuity" or only accept sexually violent, suicidal or abused kids. We struggled with months of violence and destruction on the atypical antipsychotics and worst of all - LEXAPRO!

My son in a group home would be at risk of elopement (running in the street, maybe entering a neighbor's house uninvited), public indecency (taking his clothes off outside) and he's generally loud (vocalizing) which is why he is in a residential home. He is safe and supported there paid for by the school district, not the state. We consider ourselves lucky to have found placement for him.

Anyway...I'm assuming these are medically stable kids who have the necessary supports to live in a community. AND Ford is a jerk.
 
2014-05-18 04:01:27 PM  
"My brother is getting attention from the whole world, I should say something stupid as well."  Yeah that is the ticket.
 
2014-05-18 04:04:30 PM  
If the grouphome has appropriate supervision and the residents are able to function safely in a low to no security environment then go ahead and open one on my block. There's a huge difference between people whose impairments mean they need extra behavioral guidance or physical assistance and people with dangerous behavioral problems. If someone needs to be kept under lock and key to prevent them from harming others, a residential home is probably not the place to do that.

We shouldn't be institutionalizing everyone, but at a certain point public safety and the care needs of the individual are better served in an institution.

/Ford sounds like a terrible human being.
 
2014-05-18 04:05:52 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: moeburn: I thought we were talking about a house for 5 autistic kids, not a group home for troubled teens?

Ever been attacked by an autistic kid? My friends kid is autistic and pretty okay most of the time but one time when the mom was visiting he went from zero the feral in about two seconds. Full on primate biting, scratching, feral rage. He also got thrown out of the local school's special ed program when he bit one of the handlers so hard the woman had to go to the hospital for stitches.

They're not all Rain Man.


Yeah, autistic people can lash out when they panic.  But you were talking about "break-ins, cars keyed, fights in the alleyway, teenage kids on "free time" terrorizing the kids from the neighbourhood, cops being called day and night, ambulances pulling up day and night... " -that doesn't sound like autistic people.  Autistic people have been known to break in to things they are obsessed with, like that kid who kept breaking into new york subway trains because he loved driving them.  But keying cars?  Fighting in alleyways?  Terrorizing the neighbourhood?  That isn't autistic kids, that's bored, pissed off, desperate kids.
 
2014-05-18 04:06:47 PM  
From how I understand it, if you leave an autistic person alone, they will leave you alone.  They don't like people.
 
2014-05-18 04:12:39 PM  

Madame Ovary: hardinparamedic: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Ever been attacked by an autistic kid? My friends kid is autistic and pretty okay most of the time but one time when the mom was visiting he went from zero the feral in about two seconds. Full on primate biting, scratching, feral rage. He also got thrown out of the local school's special ed program when he bit one of the handlers so hard the woman had to go to the hospital for stitches.

I deal with Autistic children every day. A good deal of the ill and injured children I transport are autistic.

They are not as violent or as hard to handle as you claim they are.

/and there are drugs for that.

But the drugs don't always work as advertised or over the long term. We are still looking for the magic cocktail for our son. ERs will give us a couple mgs of Ativan and send us home. Pediatric in-patient psych wards are typically "at acuity" or only accept sexually violent, suicidal or abused kids. We struggled with months of violence and destruction on the atypical antipsychotics and worst of all - LEXAPRO!

My son in a group home would be at risk of elopement (running in the street, maybe entering a neighbor's house uninvited), public indecency (taking his clothes off outside) and he's generally loud (vocalizing) which is why he is in a residential home. He is safe and supported there paid for by the school district, not the state. We consider ourselves lucky to have found placement for him.

Anyway...I'm assuming these are medically stable kids who have the necessary supports to live in a community. AND Ford is a jerk.


It may or may not be helpful, but I heard about a rhythmic light and sound treatment they have been experimenting with with results comparable to Ritalin.  (without any meds at all, it could maybe be used in concert with some something for even better results)
 
2014-05-18 04:31:07 PM  

moeburn: From how I understand it, if you leave an autistic person alone, they will leave you alone.  They don't like people.


This may be true in some cases but if there is a sensory component to an individual's disorder (noise, light,etc) that could set them off. In the case if my son, he needs support for all personal care which forces caregivers into his zone.
 
2014-05-18 05:07:30 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: And yet, the group home that was 5 houses down the block from me was peaceful and calm while I was growing up. I've been around for 40 years, and there's never been any trouble with that house or in the neighborhood.

Almost as if it's not the kids that are the problem, but the quality of care that causes situations like that.



Bingo.

You can't simply drop a bunch of autistic kids (or autistic adults) into a neighborhood with a couple of caregivers and expect them to manage by themselves. Hell, you can't drop a bunch of so-called "normal" teenagers into a neighborhood and expect them to manage--look at the chaos in an off-campus residential area.

So if you want to have a multi-care facility in a nice neighborhood for the benefit of the kids, you need highly skilled caregivers, you need the support and full knowledge of the neighborhood, and constant monitoring from the regional center that is responsible for the kids. At minimum.
 
2014-05-18 05:15:09 PM  
I have worked with children and adults with both cognitive impairment and all sorts of mental health/developmental disorders for about 20 years now.  I am a special education teacher (severe disabilities) and work in group homes for adults with cognitive impairment.  As others have noted, some group homes are invisible in the community and some are well-known sources of entertainment (if counting emergency response vehicles roaring through your neighborhood is entertaining to you).  How successful a group home is depends on who is running it (are they in it for the residents or for the money?), who is staffing it (are they well-trained and competent to provide appropriate supports?), and who is living there (do they have all the supports they need in place to be successful? Do they even want to be there?).  I have seen people with some pretty severely maladaptive behaviors fit in beautifully into a community residence and I have seen some who just didn't.  Depends on the mix of people and the competence of those running the program.

Either way, a knee-jerk "Those people are going to destroy property values if the neighbors see them outside!!" is not helpful.

Once I figure out a way to get around those pesky "controlled substance" laws, I have a plan to market a Valium air spray--just a quick spritz and everyone gets nice and calm.  No needles, no pills, just peace and quiet.  Ahhhhhhhh......
 
2014-05-18 05:23:48 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: It's a little more complicated than that,  subby.

I watched the neighbourhood I grew up in completely changed by a "multi-treatment facility".  It was a quiet place, people were nice, we kids could play outside, nobody got broken in on... nice neighbourhood.  Very suburban.  Then, we got a group home.  What can I say - mentally ill teenagers act out.  Within 3 months, there were break-ins, cars keyed, fights in the alleyway, teenage kids on "free time" terrorizing the kids from the neighbourhood, cops being called day and night, ambulances pulling up day and night... it did ruin the neighbourhood.  The first argument from the workers was that everyone were just prejudiced against the mentally ill, and no one could prove it was "their" kids doing that stuff.  So some neighbours got security cameras and caught the little bastards red-handed.  Then the tune changed to "need for tolerance and understanding".  But it's hard to be tolerant when your home has lost thousands in value and your family no longer feel safe.  And even if the kid got sent to juvie, another one came in.  The behaviours didn't change.

So, yes - if I'd spent 30 years paying off a mortgage on a house in a nice neighbourhood, and those kinds of behaviours started happening because a group home came in, I'd be pissed off, too.

That said, there is a need for better mental health services, especially for juveniles.  I'd like to see a tiered approach by which more levels are added, so that the kids who are placed in group homes in nicer neighbourhoods are ready to function socially there.  But maybe we should concentrate on actually offering mental health services first.


All of this. Also, a medical establishment doesn't really belong in a neighborhood anyway, especially with emergency vehicles there all hours of the day and night. There's no reason these sorts of places can't be near other medical establishments or industrial areas instead of neighborhoods.
 
2014-05-18 05:38:22 PM  

hardinparamedic: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Ever been attacked by an autistic kid? My friends kid is autistic and pretty okay most of the time but one time when the mom was visiting he went from zero the feral in about two seconds. Full on primate biting, scratching, feral rage. He also got thrown out of the local school's special ed program when he bit one of the handlers so hard the woman had to go to the hospital for stitches.

I deal with Autistic children every day. A good deal of the ill and injured children I transport are autistic.

They are not as violent or as hard to handle as you claim they are.

/and there are drugs for that.


Bull. My nephew the 200 pound kid would attack his 110 pound mother. They had to constantly have men around just in case. They found the right drugs but it took years. My friend's son would fight at her and she'd come in with bruises. denial helps nobody.
 
2014-05-18 05:44:28 PM  

addy2: hardinparamedic: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Ever been attacked by an autistic kid? My friends kid is autistic and pretty okay most of the time but one time when the mom was visiting he went from zero the feral in about two seconds. Full on primate biting, scratching, feral rage. He also got thrown out of the local school's special ed program when he bit one of the handlers so hard the woman had to go to the hospital for stitches.

I deal with Autistic children every day. A good deal of the ill and injured children I transport are autistic.

They are not as violent or as hard to handle as you claim they are.

/and there are drugs for that.

Bull. My nephew the 200 pound kid would attack his 110 pound mother. They had to constantly have men around just in case. They found the right drugs but it took years. My friend's son would fight at her and she'd come in with bruises. denial helps nobody.


Yes, your one nephew is EXACTLY like all the kids on the spectrum.
 
2014-05-18 05:46:09 PM  

sno man: addy2: hardinparamedic: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Ever been attacked by an autistic kid? My friends kid is autistic and pretty okay most of the time but one time when the mom was visiting he went from zero the feral in about two seconds. Full on primate biting, scratching, feral rage. He also got thrown out of the local school's special ed program when he bit one of the handlers so hard the woman had to go to the hospital for stitches.

I deal with Autistic children every day. A good deal of the ill and injured children I transport are autistic.

They are not as violent or as hard to handle as you claim they are.

/and there are drugs for that.

Bull. My nephew the 200 pound kid would attack his 110 pound mother. They had to constantly have men around just in case. They found the right drugs but it took years. My friend's son would fight at her and she'd come in with bruises. denial helps nobody.

Yes, your one nephew is EXACTLY like all the kids on the spectrum.


Point is it happens, genius. And needs to be considered.
 
2014-05-18 05:46:20 PM  

ukexpat: I know how to solve this: let's put these kids in purpose-built facilities, we'll call them "camps". Then to make sure they can't bother the neighbors, let's put up a barrier, we'll call it a "fence". To keep them from escaping we can put people, we'll call them "guards", in taller structures so they can see what's going on, those we will call "guard-towers".


Try to concentrate.
 
2014-05-18 05:48:14 PM  
Why can't they just build like a big compound near a major industrial centre, convenient to rail transport? By concentrating the patients into one geographic area, and applying the right methods containment and waste disposal, the local population might not be bothered by the solution. They'd probably deny knowledge of it existing at all.
 
2014-05-18 06:00:24 PM  
I'd rather have a known quantity like a home for disabled or troubled teens, than have a family move in and have to discover the parents have no intention of actually doing their duty as parents.  Especially in the nicer neighborhoods, it seems the bored teens are the ones most likely to do property damage and vandalism.  I'll take the well-known and identified violent or acting out sexually teens over the well groomed sociopath student athlete any day.
 
2014-05-18 06:07:11 PM  

moeburn: From how I understand it, if you leave an autistic person alone, they will leave you alone.  They don't like people.


Depends on the level of functionality, but generally that's the case.. they really just don't want to be bothered and a lot of that has to do with them being picked on by others growing up.. all could be a potential threat so they  really want to keep their distance from strangers.
 
2014-05-18 06:09:04 PM  

cherryl taggart: I'll take the well-known and identified violent or acting out sexually teens over the well groomed sociopath student athlete any day.


yes, because the well-known and identified violent or acting out sexually teens won't completely ignore you passing in the hall on the way to algebra even though you laid out sunning in the back garden with your straps deliciously yet demurely untied for a solid week over summer break
 
2014-05-18 06:32:25 PM  

moeburn: From how I understand it, if you leave an autistic person alone, they will leave you alone.  They don't like people.


Their vision is based upon motion. It's important that you keep absolutely still.
 
2014-05-18 06:33:24 PM  
 
2014-05-18 06:39:06 PM  

Vector R: Benevolent Misanthrope: It's a little more complicated than that,  subby.

I watched the neighbourhood I grew up in completely changed by a "multi-treatment facility".  It was a quiet place, people were nice, we kids could play outside, nobody got broken in on... nice neighbourhood.  Very suburban.  Then, we got a group home.  What can I say - mentally ill teenagers act out.  Within 3 months, there were break-ins, cars keyed, fights in the alleyway, teenage kids on "free time" terrorizing the kids from the neighbourhood, cops being called day and night, ambulances pulling up day and night... it did ruin the neighbourhood.  The first argument from the workers was that everyone were just prejudiced against the mentally ill, and no one could prove it was "their" kids doing that stuff.  So some neighbours got security cameras and caught the little bastards red-handed.  Then the tune changed to "need for tolerance and understanding".  But it's hard to be tolerant when your home has lost thousands in value and your family no longer feel safe.  And even if the kid got sent to juvie, another one came in.  The behaviours didn't change.

So, yes - if I'd spent 30 years paying off a mortgage on a house in a nice neighbourhood, and those kinds of behaviours started happening because a group home came in, I'd be pissed off, too.

That said, there is a need for better mental health services, especially for juveniles.  I'd like to see a tiered approach by which more levels are added, so that the kids who are placed in group homes in nicer neighbourhoods are ready to function socially there.  But maybe we should concentrate on actually offering mental health services first.

All of this. Also, a medical establishment doesn't really belong in a neighborhood anyway, especially with emergency vehicles there all hours of the day and night. There's no reason these sorts of places can't be near other medical establishments or industrial areas instead of neighborhoods.


In my neck of the woods they're not medical establishments. They're run by social service agencies, usually non-profits.
 
2014-05-18 06:42:01 PM  

addy2: hardinparamedic: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Ever been attacked by an autistic kid? My friends kid is autistic and pretty okay most of the time but one time when the mom was visiting he went from zero the feral in about two seconds. Full on primate biting, scratching, feral rage. He also got thrown out of the local school's special ed program when he bit one of the handlers so hard the woman had to go to the hospital for stitches.

I deal with Autistic children every day. A good deal of the ill and injured children I transport are autistic.

They are not as violent or as hard to handle as you claim they are.

/and there are drugs for that.

Bull. My nephew the 200 pound kid would attack his 110 pound mother. They had to constantly have men around just in case. They found the right drugs but it took years. My friend's son would fight at her and she'd come in with bruises. denial helps nobody.


This.

Science is far from being able to medicate all conditions, much less all of the time.
 
2014-05-18 06:42:58 PM  
We had one of those autistic kids next at the table next to us at breakfast this morning. He had the arm brace crutches, and the big shoes, and the bib, the whole deal. I feel bad for his condition, but he really did ruin our enjoyment of the crepes.
 
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