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(TreeHugger)   More people suffer serious head injuries in car accidents than in bike accidents. So why do all the mandatory helmet laws only target bicyclists?   (treehugger.com ) divider line 169
    More: Stupid, bicycle accident, mountain biker, moving violation  
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3145 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 May 2014 at 9:06 AM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-18 04:11:12 PM  

Frederf: That Guy Jeff: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: demaL-demaL-yeH: *facepalm*
Just get in the corner and stay there, subby.

I don't have the citations on hand (it's Saturday night, cut me some slack) but a car and a bicycle are equally likely to give you a head injury per mile traveled, and a bicycle helmet would prevent a lot of head injuries in cars, but we dismiss the idea as ridiculous for cultural reasons.

I always wear a helmet when I ride on the streets, mostly because my brother had his life saved by a helmet when he was young and I think it models good behavior for kids. But really, requiring people to wear helmets in cars makes as much sense as requiring them to wear them on bikes.

Now, motorcycle head injuries are way beyond car/bicycle head injuries, and I definitely support mandatory helmet laws for them.

I have a motorcycle, bicycle, and car. I do not, and will not, wear a helmet on any of them. fark you and people like you telling me what I should and shouldn't do. It's my god-damned body. If I want to get an abortion, my call. If I want to get a tattoo, my call. If I want to put any drug I want in my system, my call. If I want to kill myself, my call. And if I want to ride around without a helmet, my call. People who want to control other people's bodies, like yourself, are sickening.

The only way your system of "It's my decision, I'll live with the consequences" works is if society at large adopts a harsh "well, you asked for it" stance on (not) helping people based on their decisions and... no. That's an undo burden that you do not get to levy on everyone else. Your offer is not accepted and your decision not valuable enough to justify upending the prevailing way of life.


The entirety of society is effected by every single thing anyone decides to do or not do. Get an abortion? That's a million dollars of raising money that isn't going into the those industries, plus one fewer future workers. Have sex? There's a risk you might get a disease, or create a baby, or cause a future abortion, so that's no-go too. Like hiking? Oops, might cost society too much. Like sitting on the couch? Woops, might cost society too much. The idiotic world you want to live in is a distopia where every single action or inaction has to be analysed and controlled for the good of the whole. fark that noise. I prefer a free society, where whatever incidental costs or effects you have on society through your actions are just part of the overall cost of having a free society. fark your system, fascist.

// Just got back from a great ride
// No helmet, wind in my hair
// suck it
 
2014-05-18 04:23:24 PM  

Tax Boy: [www.clarksvilleonline.com image 640x427]

Why should soldiers exclusively have driving helmets?  That they get for free?

Demand free government driving helmets for everyone. Contact your congressman today!


I want one of the new air conditioned models.
a57.foxnews.com

/because it's hot...
 
2014-05-18 04:52:02 PM  

That Guy Jeff: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: demaL-demaL-yeH: *facepalm*
Just get in the corner and stay there, subby.

I don't have the citations on hand (it's Saturday night, cut me some slack) but a car and a bicycle are equally likely to give you a head injury per mile traveled, and a bicycle helmet would prevent a lot of head injuries in cars, but we dismiss the idea as ridiculous for cultural reasons.

I always wear a helmet when I ride on the streets, mostly because my brother had his life saved by a helmet when he was young and I think it models good behavior for kids. But really, requiring people to wear helmets in cars makes as much sense as requiring them to wear them on bikes.

Now, motorcycle head injuries are way beyond car/bicycle head injuries, and I definitely support mandatory helmet laws for them.

I have a motorcycle, bicycle, and car. I do not, and will not, wear a helmet on any of them. fark you and people like you telling me what I should and shouldn't do. It's my god-damned body. If I want to get an abortion, my call. If I want to get a tattoo, my call. If I want to put any drug I want in my system, my call. If I want to kill myself, my call. And if I want to ride around without a helmet, my call. People who want to control other people's bodies, like yourself, are sickening.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-05-18 04:58:57 PM  

nekom: doglover: I don't understand why helmets are required for adults. Yes, you could be seriously hurt and brain damaged from a fall off of a bike. Then again, you could just as easily choose to stay home and drink Draino. So much in this world COULD happen, why should we mandate that certain events be safeguarded against while others which are equal or greater risks are not?

My inner libertarian tends to agree, but on the other hand you know we're all paying for these idiots who crack their skulls open and have to undergo tens of thousands of dollars worth of medical treatment.


And this again.
 
2014-05-18 05:17:32 PM  

Errk: I think riders of two wheeled vehicles should always ride in nothing but a thong


Backwards. The thong, not riding the bike.
 
2014-05-18 05:27:44 PM  

proteus_b: oa330_man: Maybe I'm clueless, but where in the world is it required that an adult wear a helmet to ride a bicycle?

Most municipalities... in other words, most places that people (in the USA) live.


This is demonstrably false. Adults are not required to wear helmets anywhere that I know of in the USA.

If your reply isn't a troll for suckers like me to correct you, then you're extremely ignorant, and probably don't venture out of your mom's basement very much.
 
2014-05-18 05:28:02 PM  
Motorists already wear a protective "helmet" called "the frame of the car".
 
2014-05-18 05:30:40 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Motorists already wear a protective "helmet" called "the frame of the car".


And except in circumstances where the individual should die anyway, you rarely suffer head injuries from falling OFF of your car.
 
2014-05-18 05:41:01 PM  
No kidding, I've been driving past the university area, on occasion, and have had the assumed "students" on bikes at night, no reflectors, lights, helmets, or any other type of safety equipment ride in front of me, and act  as if I'm anti- bike" for complaining about it. Hey, I' as pro bike as the next guy, but if and when I smear one, sure, I may feel bad about it, for a while, but will be submitting a bill for repairs to the deceased estate.
Sure I ride a motorcycle and ride bikes as well, and a big point on wearing a helmet is not so much to make sure you try to stay safe, but to help safeguard you from others who may be inattentive.
 As far as refusing to wear a helmet, based on some type of defective logic, hopefully before they've had kids. Or add some chlorine to that gene pool.
I'm not
 
2014-05-18 06:02:16 PM  
ArcadianRefugee:
* It is estimated that 85% of head injuries in bicycle accidents can be prevented by wearing a helmet (Link)

Well... maybe.

It's an "estimate," sure - but when you start chasing initial citations... you find a lot of numbers that don't usually reach 85%. The studies I've found seem to hover around 67% - but it gets a lot more complicated than that. Some studies show no difference in fatality rates between helmeted and non-helmeted riders involved in accidents, while others claimed a high rate difference.
 
2014-05-18 06:19:26 PM  

Baloo Uriza: StopDaddy: Independent action, independent consequences. I'm all for libertarianism provided those libertarians don't expect other people to pay for their dumb choices.

Then you hate libertarianism.  It's all about outsourcing the risk to the public while privatizing the benefit.


I learn something new every day. I'm a hater. Hate that.
 
2014-05-18 06:23:28 PM  

That Guy Jeff: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: demaL-demaL-yeH: *facepalm*
Just get in the corner and stay there, subby.

I don't have the citations on hand (it's Saturday night, cut me some slack) but a car and a bicycle are equally likely to give you a head injury per mile traveled, and a bicycle helmet would prevent a lot of head injuries in cars, but we dismiss the idea as ridiculous for cultural reasons.

I always wear a helmet when I ride on the streets, mostly because my brother had his life saved by a helmet when he was young and I think it models good behavior for kids. But really, requiring people to wear helmets in cars makes as much sense as requiring them to wear them on bikes.

Now, motorcycle head injuries are way beyond car/bicycle head injuries, and I definitely support mandatory helmet laws for them.

I have a motorcycle, bicycle, and car. I do not, and will not, wear a helmet on any of them. fark you and people like you telling me what I should and shouldn't do. It's my god-damned body. If I want to get an abortion, my call. If I want to get a tattoo, my call. If I want to put any drug I want in my system, my call. If I want to kill myself, my call. And if I want to ride around without a helmet, my call. People who want to control other people's bodies, like yourself, are sickening.


I agree with you ,
 Sign a waiver relieving the state from paying you disbility of any kind above whatever you have in insurance if you crack your skull and become a veg. Your right to do what you want is valid so long as its a right the rest of us dont have to subsidize . Want to breed out of wedlock? knock yourself out ... but dont cry that your babies are hungry and the state is obligated to feed them. The difference between a nation of responsible , load bearing citizens and a nation of parasites is so profound that its literally the difference between survival and extinction.
 I am the state ! And I want my resources to go to keeping the roads in good shape , research , space exploration and defense. NOT to underwriting irresponsible behaviors.
 Want to chain an anvil to your wrist and jump into a pool? go ahead , just dont shackle the rest of us to it as well.

"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country. "
<---Hard to believe that such incandescent words were spoken by a democrat
 
2014-05-18 06:43:09 PM  

kidakita: Barfmaker: One of my Facebook "friends" posted a link to this the other day. He's always "that guy". He's a vegan, anti-GMO, anti global warming, anti bike lane (I don't quite get how that works but apparently they make cycling more dangerous through some twisted logic).

A while back he posted an excellent piece about how a lot of people believe things that aren't scientifically factual and since then he hasn't posted a single thing about GMO. Pretty sure I heard an audible *click*.

It's kind of a shame because for the longest time all I ever had to do to know the right answer to something was to pick the opposite of what he was saying. Oh well, all good things and all that.

/csb

No. Not a cool story. It went from bicycles to GMOs for no rhyme or reason. Does Monsanto issue you your paychecks?


No, I believe in science. Go be fundie somewhere else. Oh look, Jesus is calling, it's for you.
 
2014-05-18 06:58:13 PM  
I commute to work on a bicycle and wear a helmet when doing so. Drivers are too erratic and inattentive to risk it, it's not because of any mandates. The biggest danger you can ever face on a road is the few moments right after a driver feels they have been slighted in some way, even if it didn't involve you.

The "slippery slope" argument here is full-duplex stupid, so I have no interest in getting involved in it.

Regulations are passed in reaction to things that are easy to imagine and very graphic in people's imagination and are thus easy to drum up public support for. Sometimes they are in line with the reality of things and sometimes they aren't. If they aren't, then they  mightbe reviewed, but generally only if they have been causing enough people to make sacrifices. Indifference amongst people who don't feel the impact of regulations is hugely difficult to overcome from regulated "minorities."
 
2014-05-18 09:21:10 PM  
How are cops gonna beat your head in if your wearing a helmet.
 
2014-05-18 09:49:40 PM  
I'm in the 'never wore a helmet ever' category.  I just grew up riding bikes all over Germantown (a central Louisville neighborhood.)  As kids, no one wore helmets, ever.  We were also in the 'avoid cars at all costs' category.  Sidewalks were free little roads that didn't have cars on them.  Once in a while you would have to avoid a pedestrian, but since pedestrians aren't made of steel, it was all good.  The concept of biker equality with cars on the road is foreign to me.  I cringe when I see bikers trying to own a lane on a busy city street.  It's just a bad bet in my experience.  To this day I'll ride on the sidewalk every time when possible.  Write me a ticket.
 
2014-05-19 01:47:27 AM  

That Guy Jeff: Frederf: That Guy Jeff: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: demaL-demaL-yeH: *facepalm*
Just get in the corner and stay there, subby.

I don't have the citations on hand (it's Saturday night, cut me some slack) but a car and a bicycle are equally likely to give you a head injury per mile traveled, and a bicycle helmet would prevent a lot of head injuries in cars, but we dismiss the idea as ridiculous for cultural reasons.

I always wear a helmet when I ride on the streets, mostly because my brother had his life saved by a helmet when he was young and I think it models good behavior for kids. But really, requiring people to wear helmets in cars makes as much sense as requiring them to wear them on bikes.

Now, motorcycle head injuries are way beyond car/bicycle head injuries, and I definitely support mandatory helmet laws for them.

I have a motorcycle, bicycle, and car. I do not, and will not, wear a helmet on any of them. fark you and people like you telling me what I should and shouldn't do. It's my god-damned body. If I want to get an abortion, my call. If I want to get a tattoo, my call. If I want to put any drug I want in my system, my call. If I want to kill myself, my call. And if I want to ride around without a helmet, my call. People who want to control other people's bodies, like yourself, are sickening.

The only way your system of "It's my decision, I'll live with the consequences" works is if society at large adopts a harsh "well, you asked for it" stance on (not) helping people based on their decisions and... no. That's an undo burden that you do not get to levy on everyone else. Your offer is not accepted and your decision not valuable enough to justify upending the prevailing way of life.

The entirety of society is effected by every single thing anyone decides to do or not do. Get an abortion? That's a million dollars of raising money that isn't going into the those industries, plus one fewer future workers. Have sex? There's a risk you might get a disease, or ...


That Guy Jeff: Frederf: That Guy Jeff: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: demaL-demaL-yeH: *facepalm*
Just get in the corner and stay there, subby.

I don't have the citations on hand (it's Saturday night, cut me some slack) but a car and a bicycle are equally likely to give you a head injury per mile traveled, and a bicycle helmet would prevent a lot of head injuries in cars, but we dismiss the idea as ridiculous for cultural reasons.

I always wear a helmet when I ride on the streets, mostly because my brother had his life saved by a helmet when he was young and I think it models good behavior for kids. But really, requiring people to wear helmets in cars makes as much sense as requiring them to wear them on bikes.

Now, motorcycle head injuries are way beyond car/bicycle head injuries, and I definitely support mandatory helmet laws for them.

I have a motorcycle, bicycle, and car. I do not, and will not, wear a helmet on any of them. fark you and people like you telling me what I should and shouldn't do. It's my god-damned body. If I want to get an abortion, my call. If I want to get a tattoo, my call. If I want to put any drug I want in my system, my call. If I want to kill myself, my call. And if I want to ride around without a helmet, my call. People who want to control other people's bodies, like yourself, are sickening.

The only way your system of "It's my decision, I'll live with the consequences" works is if society at large adopts a harsh "well, you asked for it" stance on (not) helping people based on their decisions and... no. That's an undo burden that you do not get to levy on everyone else. Your offer is not accepted and your decision not valuable enough to justify upending the prevailing way of life.

The entirety of society is effected by every single thing anyone decides to do or not do. Get an abortion? That's a million dollars of raising money that isn't going into the those industries, plus one fewer future workers. Have sex? There's a risk you might get a disease, or ...


That is not a logically viable position. You misrepresent my position that all interpersonal effects are forbidden. My position is that interpersonal effects actually exist and in some cases must be considered. To disregard them completely is as arrogant as it is ignorant.

Person A's version of society may conflict with Person B's. The point is that neither is inherently right. You have no more right to your version of reality than the one I stated. Your position of being pigheadedly clutching to some non-existent isolation principle does not give your notion a privileged position. The deduced that these two positions are inherently at odds and one is not free to "do as he pleases" as if it has nothing to do with anyone else. That concept is not neutral in the situation. The conclusion I reached is that your version loses to the one held by more and smarter people.

May you make a less messy road accident than you do a live human being.
 
2014-05-19 04:09:13 AM  

Triumph: ZeroPly: Triumph: If Michael Schumacher hadn't been wearing a helmet while skiing, he'd probably be dead now instead of in a coma.

Not necessarily.

I'm a big believer in helmets, since a bicycle helmet saved my life in the 90's, but this logic is just flat out wrong. Risk homeostasis theory is well established, and states that an organism will stay at a certain level of risk, so if Schumacher weren't wearing the helmet, he might have been more careful and never been in the crash in the first place.

When I'm rock climbing and take a fall 300ft off the ground, it's tempting to say "if I weren't using a rope, I'd be dead right now". But the fact remains that if I were free soloing, I would be much more focussed and much more cognizant of each individual move.

The point I was making is the helmet did him virtually no good. He's brain dead.


Since when? They put him in a medically induced coma, and his condition is still improving. The doctors are still hoping for him to come out of the coma. Brain death is irreversible.
 
2014-05-19 05:22:02 AM  

champu: I commute to work on a bicycle and wear a helmet when doing so. Drivers are too erratic and inattentive to risk it, it's not because of any mandates. The biggest danger you can ever face on a road is the few moments right after a driver feels they have been slighted in some way, even if it didn't involve you.


The main problem here is that helmets won't protect you against most vehicle collisions. 3-4,000 lbs of steel and aluminum has quite a bit of momentum compared to a couple dozen pounds of flesh and bone, and shattered legs are the most common major injury in a bike-vehicle accident. Crumple zones and leg armor would be more useful in that case, but are unlikely to ever be mandated. Helmets mostly protect you from your own stupidity (important in its own right) and an occasional obstacle that jumps out at you suddenly that you hit just right, like dogs and reversing cars. High-speed accidents where you hit something just right so helmets make the difference between brain injury and survival are pretty rare, by several studies.
 
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