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(Gizmodo)   "Microsoft is in full retreat, and we're at risk of losing all the great stuff that it risked so much to accomplish." Gawker found the one person in the world who liked Windows 8   (gizmodo.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Windows, Microsoft, Start Menu, Windows 8.1, tablets, risks  
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2986 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 May 2014 at 8:15 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-16 03:39:27 AM  
Too simplistic.  We all know what MSFT did - try to avoid Zune 2.0.  Their iPod killer that, AFAIK, everyone who owned one liked.  Most of whom were MSFT employees.  It died for lack of sales, being an unsexy brown brick vs. the iPod shuffle the size of a matchbox at the time (Soledad OBrien on CNN).

If MSFT had released their tablet interface only on tablets and phones, it would have died the same fate as the Zune.  Everyone who wanted that sort of thing already bought it from Apple two years ago.  And therein is one of the dumbest things the Windows 8 model has done - try to ape Apple's revenue/consumer-base model from several years ago.  What those dolts don't realize is that many people who use MSFT products use them _because_ they are not Apple.

Apple locks vendors into a single store, of which they scalp a percentage off the top.  Who wants that?  And yet Ballmer thought this was a business model to emulate. I won't even go into the bizarre mechanics of forcing users to get a service pack through a 'store'.  I'll just leave that after they lost the "Metro" trademark battle, one of their interim names for Metro apps was "Windows App Store Apps".  For applications that came with the OS, where the Windows App Store was never involved.  This is too stupid for me to invent.

Ballmer got fired, Sivanofsky got fired, all of Sivanwhatever's underlings got fired.  Windows 8 is the biggest mistake MSFT has ever made.  The only thing worse than making a huge mistake is refusing to admit you made it.
 
2014-05-16 03:55:45 AM  

syrynxx: Ballmer got fired, Sivanofsky got fired, all of Sivanwhatever's underlings got fired.  Windows 8 is the biggest mistake MSFT has ever made.  The only thing worse than making a huge mistake is refusing to admit you made it.


I beg to disagree. Windows ME was the biggest mistake MSFT ever made, with Vista a close second. While Windows 8 isn't a great OS, it isn't all that bad, once you get used to the user interface changes from Windows 7. Do I think they should have made such a radical change as Windows 8? No. But at least the OS actually works (unlike ME and Vista), and in my experience, is faster than Windows 7.
 
2014-05-16 07:30:16 AM  
Am I the only one who thought this was gonna be an XBONE thread until the end of the headline?

The last few years for Microsoft have been a series of blunders worthy of a dissertation on how to completely ruin a company
 
2014-05-16 07:34:03 AM  

syrynxx: Too simplistic.  We all know what MSFT did - try to avoid Zune 2.0.  Their iPod killer that, AFAIK, everyone who owned one liked.  Most of whom were MSFT employees.  It died for lack of sales, being an unsexy brown brick vs. the iPod shuffle the size of a matchbox at the time (Soledad OBrien on CNN).

If MSFT had released their tablet interface only on tablets and phones, it would have died the same fate as the Zune.  Everyone who wanted that sort of thing already bought it from Apple two years ago.  And therein is one of the dumbest things the Windows 8 model has done - try to ape Apple's revenue/consumer-base model from several years ago.  What those dolts don't realize is that many people who use MSFT products use them _because_ they are not Apple.

Apple locks vendors into a single store, of which they scalp a percentage off the top.  Who wants that?  And yet Ballmer thought this was a business model to emulate. I won't even go into the bizarre mechanics of forcing users to get a service pack through a 'store'.  I'll just leave that after they lost the "Metro" trademark battle, one of their interim names for Metro apps was "Windows App Store Apps".  For applications that came with the OS, where the Windows App Store was never involved.  This is too stupid for me to invent.

Ballmer got fired, Sivanofsky got fired, all of Sivanwhatever's underlings got fired.  Windows 8 is the biggest mistake MSFT has ever made.  The only thing worse than making a huge mistake is refusing to admit you made it.


You know what's worse than aping Apple's interface and doing a poor job of it?  Porting that same interface to your server OS.  For fuxake, I don't have a single goddamn server with a touch interface, what the fark are you thinking?  Surprisingly, 2012 R2 is incredibly more functional, though they also like to complicate stupid things that are simple in other OS's (unix, linux) like allowing users to remotely log into the system.  Jesus farking Christ, it's bad enough that you have to buy farking remote user licenses, why does it take twenty steps and three different interfaces to install the goddamned things?
 
2014-05-16 07:37:38 AM  
Microsoft isn't retreating from the future.
Its retreating from angry customers who are tired of flipping through advertisements, on software they paid for, to get to their programs.

If they want to salvage 8 and give 9 a chance then they'd best emulate 7 before it eats into their future market.
 
2014-05-16 07:38:38 AM  
Windows 8 is fine, unless you're a geezer.

But WHY is that interface on the Server?

/Vista was fine too. No shiat. Unless you bought a Packard Bell with 256 meg RAM. And insisted on using 10-year-old peripherals.
 
2014-05-16 07:42:14 AM  
I reinstalled windows 7 on my gaming system the other day. It's been almost 4 days aandi think all the updates have finally been applied. When I install Ubuntu or any other Linux distro, the first time I install updates all of them up to that instant get applied (heck, in some cases you can get the updates installed while you do the OS install).
 
2014-05-16 07:47:44 AM  
While I applaud M$ and its initiative to move forward in its design and capabilities, they really should have a clue about what we want before building an OS that people generally don't like. The comment about 'aping Apple's interface' is a fair comment, but stealing someone else's interface idea isn't what users want right now. We want better functionality and speed. A touch interface is only nice if it help 'improve' productivity, not 'hinder' it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, M$ needs to improve its brand, not go out of its way to destroy it. Maybe before releasing Windows 9 they will have listened to its majority of users, and not just the mindless 'fanboi of M$' users.
 
2014-05-16 07:48:15 AM  
Windows 8 continued the now storied Windows tradition of making Operating Systems that are actually less user-friendly, less transparent, less stable, and less secure than the OSs they are meant to be an improvement on.
 
2014-05-16 08:02:18 AM  
Windows 8 is so much faster and more efficient than Windows 7.  If you can figure out how to use it, that is.  I've set it up so that I never ever have to see anything "metro" related, without any 3rd party software, but for all my family members and friends who buy new laptops and are forced/tricked into getting one with Windows 8, I keep having to explain to them that "In windows 8, an app and a program are two different things.  You can't make a shortcut to an app on your desktop (like the Mail app), you can't resize an app to anything but a left/right split screen thing, which is totally different and behaves differently from the left/right split screen you can do with normal windows in desktop mode by dragging a window's title bar to the edge of the screen, you can't run a program in the Metro app view, and forget trying to learn and remember which hidden corners and secret swipe movements to get to and from App mode and Desktop mode, just learn these dozens of keyboard shortcuts".
 
2014-05-16 08:03:11 AM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Windows 8 is fine, unless you're a geezer.

But WHY is that interface on the Server?

/Vista was fine too. No shiat. Unless you bought a Packard Bell with 256 meg RAM. And insisted on using 10-year-old peripherals.


Vista came out right when low powered ultra portable netbooks were all the rage. MS released an OS that couldn't run on the biggest emerging market of machines and it was so bad that Dell and HP netbooks were released with Linux. That was stupid.
 
2014-05-16 08:07:55 AM  
Windows 8 is fine, as long as you install Classic Shell ...and turn a bunch of crap off...


/no really, I like it (without all that garbage)
 
2014-05-16 08:10:24 AM  

MmmmBacon: Vista a close second


This is just flat out wrong. Vista needed to be released to finally implement all of the security APIs that Microsoft had ignored for years and put in place key security features, like session separation and signed drivers that, while vendors were aware were coming, they ignored. The result was what seemed to be a horribly broken OS, since most devices no longer worked, due to missing signed driver support and applications that depended on hacks and tricks that got broken by security features that were finally realized.

It didn't help that it was a bit of a resource hog. Vista doesn't play well with less than 2GB of RAM.

Microsoft should have taken one important lesson from Vista into the Windows 8 design meetings, though... the Aero UI, while not actually radically different from the XP UI, put a lot of users off. I don't know how they thought the Metro UI would not be universally reviled, considering it isn't even a proper desktop UI, but rather a mobile-optimized UI shoehorned over the desktop.

Most PCs today play Vista just fine, with no app hiccups or driver issues. It's a slightly clumsier version of Win7. It was just released a tad early (it needed more time to get vendors on board) and required a bit more detail work. Most corporate customers skipped Vista, since they didn't have the infrastructure in place to support it - and by the time they did, Windows 7 had arrived.

Windows 8 (or rather, 8.1 Update 1), on the other hand, still needs more polish. Once they deliver windowed Metro apps and return the start menu, people will probably warm up once again.
 
2014-05-16 08:18:50 AM  
Oh... and apparently, this is a photo from Gizmodo's breakroom counter:

img2u.info
Eric Limer and his buddy Kyle sure love their kool-aid. I would have thought the checks from Steve Ballmer would have stopped coming by now, but maybe he forgot to cancel the auto-pay after getting fired as CEO.
 
2014-05-16 08:24:39 AM  

LesserEvil: MmmmBacon: Vista a close second

This is just flat out wrong. Vista needed to be released to finally implement all of the security APIs that Microsoft had ignored for years and put in place key security features, like session separation and signed drivers that, while vendors were aware were coming, they ignored. The result was what seemed to be a horribly broken OS, since most devices no longer worked, due to missing signed driver support and applications that depended on hacks and tricks that got broken by security features that were finally realized.

It didn't help that it was a bit of a resource hog. Vista doesn't play well with less than 2GB of RAM.

Microsoft should have taken one important lesson from Vista into the Windows 8 design meetings, though... the Aero UI, while not actually radically different from the XP UI, put a lot of users off. I don't know how they thought the Metro UI would not be universally reviled, considering it isn't even a proper desktop UI, but rather a mobile-optimized UI shoehorned over the desktop.

Most PCs today play Vista just fine, with no app hiccups or driver issues. It's a slightly clumsier version of Win7. It was just released a tad early (it needed more time to get vendors on board) and required a bit more detail work. Most corporate customers skipped Vista, since they didn't have the infrastructure in place to support it - and by the time they did, Windows 7 had arrived.

Windows 8 (or rather, 8.1 Update 1), on the other hand, still needs more polish. Once they deliver windowed Metro apps and return the start menu, people will probably warm up once again.


Exactly what he said. I have never been a fan of Microsoft other than making money off of supporting their products but they got screwed by the hardware manufacturers.

Re: comments above about 2012 and the GUI: Microsoft made Powershell to compete with capabilities of the bash shell to try to get Unix/Linux admins to switch. Unfortunately it was too little too late as everyone has become nicely entrenched with vbs. In typical MS fashion they are forcing people to start using it by making it more convenient to do it through powershell. Latest version of Exchange is an example, the gui is so dog slow if you want to get anything done you do it through Powershell
 
2014-05-16 08:30:20 AM  
And here I've been noticing that I can run things almost exclusively from the desktop like I do on a Win 7 machine... maybe I'm the one on crack?

For example if I have the mail app open I merely move my mouse to the top of the screen and bam I see a minimize and close button in the top right as well as a menu button on top left.  minimizing brings me to the desktop where there's a mail icon in my taskbar.

Once they bring the popup start button back it should be familiar enough that all the people whining should be ok with it.

/who am I kidding complaining is a sport here...
 
2014-05-16 08:32:12 AM  
Well, I personally like Windows 8.  Is it for everyone?  No, there are too many stubborn idiots out there that whine and moan and complain about anything changing.  I don't use the "Start" or "Metro" screen much, but it's far easier to use if you just stop trying to make it work like windows has always been.  I hate drilling down on windows 7 to find an application, where I can just do a quick search and get exactly what I want.  Anything that I use with regularity are either on the desktop or pinned to the task bar. 99% of the time, I'm in desktop mode.

And it is far more stable in my use and quicker than windows 7.
 
2014-05-16 08:33:41 AM  
Windows 8.1 is pretty nice until you hit the Windows key and get presented with that awful touch screen interface on a PC.

It's not unusable. Even on 7, the number of programs and options available made direct use of the Start menu a chore. I would just start typing the name of the program I wanted to run, just like I do in Windows 8, and that would be much faster that pointing and clicking my way to it.

But that full screen shiat is obnoxious, with the Start menu and the "apps". Windows was supposed to get us away from that crap and the constrictive feeling of every application running in full screen. Now, decades later, we're back where we started. But only half the time, to make the experience inconsistent and frustrating just for shiats and giggles.

Performance wise, I'm happy with 8. But that update that optionally does away with this full-screen nonsense can't get here soon enough.
 
2014-05-16 08:36:01 AM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: But WHY is that interface on the Server?


Because they're fundamentally the same operating system.

That said, I haven't actually logged into a Server 2012 machine with the full GUI since I tested the 2012 RC. Considering how many roles and third party programs are compatible with Core now, plus PS-Remoting, MMCs and Server Manager remote management, there's hardly any need. I don't even enable remote desktop anymore and I haven't used the KVM in the datacenter in months.

RockofAges: Windows 8 has terrible, terrible driver compatibility. I have never seen a product in my life that refuses peripherals at a rate seen by Windows 8. It's not as satanic as ME or Vista, correct, but damn, it's bad.


The only thing I've ever had a problem with is printers. I have yet to find a single V4 printer driver that actually works and doesn't disable a ton of print features. That's probably not Microsoft's fault, though.

Are you perhaps attempting to install peripherals on 64-bit machines that have only been provided by their manufacturers with 32-bit drivers?
 
2014-05-16 08:36:59 AM  

MmmmBacon: syrynxx: Ballmer got fired, Sivanofsky got fired, all of Sivanwhatever's underlings got fired.  Windows 8 is the biggest mistake MSFT has ever made.  The only thing worse than making a huge mistake is refusing to admit you made it.

I beg to disagree. Windows ME was the biggest mistake MSFT ever made, with Vista a close second. While Windows 8 isn't a great OS, it isn't all that bad, once you get used to the user interface changes from Windows 7. Do I think they should have made such a radical change as Windows 8? No. But at least the OS actually works (unlike ME and Vista), and in my experience, is faster than Windows 7.


Vista was a lot of really good ideas implemented poorly, while Win 8 was a lot of terrible ideas implemented well. Because of this difference, it took a lot less time to fix Vista, which by its last service pack was basically Win 7 with a few visual differences.
 
2014-05-16 08:47:07 AM  
The biggest problem with Windows 8 is the two different "modes" incorporated into it. If I want to access an app, I don't want to try and figure out if I should be in Metro or Desktop. Likewise, if I open an app in one mode, it should be the same app in the other!

The way I think of it is work and play modes, where one forgoes multitasking in favour of a full screen experience. Still, no loss in going back to what was not broken.
 
2014-05-16 08:49:14 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Win 8 was a lot of terrible ideas


The longer this farce goes on the more obvious it becomes that the only new idea in Windows 8 was to try and force adoption of Windows Phones come hell or high water.

It's just Microsoft being Microsoft. They release a few quality products (Xbox 360, Windows 7, Server 2008 R2), the success goes to their head and they get this idea that their shiat doesn't stink and people will just buy whatever half-cocked nonsense they throw out into the market. Then you wind up with a few polished turds, they get put back in their places when everybody thumbs their nose and then they start over again trying to produce something CONSUMERS want rather than what MICROSOFT wants consumers to want.

Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

It's really farking annoying, though, going through this damn cycle all the time.
 
2014-05-16 08:49:48 AM  
The Kinect isn't yet worth the $100 it costs and it's unfair for gamers to be forced to subsidize under-developed tech, but now the Kinect's locked up potential is being pushed aside.

I almost completely agree with this statement. The reason I don't completely agree is because there's a DSK for the Kinect that already exists. They get more potential from people screwing around than they do with 3rd party companies that don't want to spend extra money for a game that isn't an exclusive.
 
2014-05-16 08:52:54 AM  
Windows 8 is a great OS. Faster than 7 too.
I get the hate, I just think its hated because it changed the formula too much.
 
kab
2014-05-16 08:53:13 AM  
MS, perhaps you'll learn your lesson that desktop users have no use for a tablet interface, and vice versa.

Better luck with W9.
 
2014-05-16 08:57:54 AM  
I think people that have issues with Win8 are they same type of people who can't figure out how a roundabout work.
 
2014-05-16 08:59:52 AM  

RockofAges: Windows 8 has terrible, terrible driver compatibility.


Considering Win 7 drivers work on Win 8 I would think you are wrong.  What hardware are you trying to install it on?  You do know that for the most part it is the manufacturers responsibility to make drivers right?  I have never had any issues with drivers on Win8 and I've put it on a very diverse set of hardware.
 
2014-05-16 09:06:23 AM  
Windows XP to Vista was, at least, not a change driven by an agenda. I liken it to the move to fuel injection and front-wheel drive in cars... it was a change that was needed, but caused a lot of complaints by shade-tree mechanics who needed new tools and were too set in their ways and their love of carburetors and drive shafts. Let's not also forget that Vista also finally legitimized the 64-bit version of the Windows OS by bringing vendors in line with proper driver support.

Windows 7 to Windows 8, on the other hand, was purely agenda driven. The changed the front-wheel drive to a single wheel... no strike that... they changed it to a single track and added ventral fins as a "design choice" - bolted on the vehicle. Sure... you could take it to a garage and have the fins partially trimmed down, and replace the track with two wheels on the front, but you should be able to drive it off the lot as the car you want, not be forced to take it to another shop to have it "fixed" to run properly. The end result was a vehicle nobody wanted when they saw it on the showroom floor, except for employees of the company and a few quirky hipsters who love the ironic and "fresh" flavor of a franken-car that required you to wave your hand over the heater vent to access the radio and door locks (and repeat this action when you just wanted your hands warmed).
 
2014-05-16 09:06:44 AM  
i never understand people who think a company pushing a new strategy is in fact - doing it because of some great ideology

especially when said strategy is failing so badly that it begins to threaten the company's bottom line with no hopes of recovery

dennysgod: I think people that have issues with Win8 are they same type of people who can't figure out how a roundabout work.


nah, the people who have issues with Win8 probably designed that roundabout
 
2014-05-16 09:13:38 AM  
Windows 9 'Threshold' is going to be released in 1st quarter 2015. It will cross-platform Xbox, Phone, RT, and regular Windows apps. Gestures (Kinect sensors) are now built in to get people away from the keyboard for multi-media and home entertainment reasons. All of this means they are sort of getting the message to go simpler. However, they are re-designing the Start menu system and Metro is now embedded instead of on its own area that can be easily bypassed. So they are still forcing something on the user communities that they don't appear interested in, while making it an easier OS to work with overall. They seem to have received the message on Windows 8 but are very intent on continuing to drive the bus in the same direction, just a little slower this time.
 
2014-05-16 09:17:47 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Vista was a lot of really good ideas implemented poorly, while Win 8 was a lot of terrible ideas implemented well. Because of this difference, it took a lot less time to fix Vista, which by its last service pack was basically Win 7 with a few visual differences.


Or alternatively Win 7 was a paid service pack for Vista which Microsoft eventually relented and gave everyone with Vista that patch for free (minus a few cosmetic changes).
 
2014-05-16 09:22:44 AM  
It's not users (although they're unhappy too).  It's the developer community that killed Win8.  Or rather, Microsoft's screwing the developer community.  Making the MetroUI with a single point of distribution that only exists to be a revenue stream for the OS manufacturer seriously pissed off developers.  And then removing/crippling any ability to have similar features in the "desktop" side of the UI pissed them off even more.  Which is unfortunate, because Windows and Visual Studio are a really amazing development platform.  Too bad that they're linked to a company whose goal seems to be to screw the people who use that platform.
 
2014-05-16 09:24:49 AM  
Once I installed the Stardock start bar thingee for Win 8 I came to like Win 8 quite a bit.
 
2014-05-16 09:44:08 AM  
CSB:

My sister used to work for Microsoft as a user/computer interactions expert. She was there when they decided to go forward with Windows 8 (I believe that's when she decided to quit). She had the exact same major concerns that everyone here knew on day one. She went to management to make the case for looking at actual data to determine if any of it was a good idea... This is what they said to her (no joke):

"Here at Microsoft, we don't really use data. We prefer to go with hunches."

That is when she realized that any of the work she did with concrete research data would never be taken seriously. So, she moved on. After a few jobs later, she now owns and runs a successful user interaction testing company in San Fran. She gets some seriously big clients too.

In the past, I always thought, surely Microsoft is not that dumb... maybe they know something I don't, etc.
Guess what ...the emperor has no clothes. Chances are, if they do something that looks really dumb and seems to be a bad idea, it actually is.
 
2014-05-16 09:44:36 AM  

Perlin Noise: Windows 8 is fine, as long as you install Classic Shell ...and turn a bunch of crap off...


/no really, I like it (without all that garbage)


Pretty much sums it up. I have zero issues with it once I had classic shell installed.
 
2014-05-16 09:57:41 AM  

Perlin Noise: CSB:

My sister used to work for Microsoft as a user/computer interactions expert. She was there when they decided to go forward with Windows 8 (I believe that's when she decided to quit). She had the exact same major concerns that everyone here knew on day one. She went to management to make the case for looking at actual data to determine if any of it was a good idea... This is what they said to her (no joke):

"Here at Microsoft, we don't really use data. We prefer to go with hunches."

That is when she realized that any of the work she did with concrete research data would never be taken seriously. So, she moved on. After a few jobs later, she now owns and runs a successful user interaction testing company in San Fran. She gets some seriously big clients too.

In the past, I always thought, surely Microsoft is not that dumb... maybe they know something I don't, etc.
Guess what ...the emperor has no clothes. Chances are, if they do something that looks really dumb and seems to be a bad idea, it actually is.


Windows 8 and metro were a huge mistake, but I respect that attitude far more than companies that are purely driven by focus groups. It's worked fairly well for Microsoft so far.

/Would Steve Jobs have needed "data" to convince him the iPad or iPhone were a good idea? Go to the archived forum on Mac Rumors and see how almost every poster said the iPod was the most stupid thing ever when it was launched. Funny to read in hindsight.
 
2014-05-16 09:59:07 AM  

DrKillPatient: Perlin Noise: Windows 8 is fine, as long as you install Classic Shell ...and turn a bunch of crap off...


/no really, I like it (without all that garbage)

Pretty much sums it up. I have zero issues with it once I had classic shell installed.


Yep, Classic Shell user here as well. I even installed Windows 8 and Classic Shell on my netbook with 1gb of RAM and it runs fine, far faster then the XP it came with originally.
 
2014-05-16 10:05:25 AM  
I just love Windows 8 fast boot time of just under 10 seconds on my laptop. It still surprises me nearly every time I turn it on.
 
2014-05-16 10:12:57 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Vista was a lot of really good ideas implemented poorly, while Win 8 was a lot of terrible ideas implemented well. Because of this difference, it took a lot less time to fix Vista, which by its last service pack was basically Win 7 with a few visual differences.


My home machine is a 3-4 year old gaming machine with 9550 quad core (prior to the "i" series) , 8GB RAM, over 22TB, OS on a SSD, from which I streams to several machines while I can be rendering videos, while I play an online game and be browsing... the OS is Vista.

This machine was rebuilt once when I got the SSD (after 2-3 years) which gave it a serious speed boost.

I've had less trouble with this machine than my several others running Win7 (and have "i" core CPUs).

My older work machine was a Vista machine, from the first few months of it's release... I upped the RAM from 1GB to 2GB and aside the RAM giving me trouble at some point, that machine worked flawlessly for years.

I still prefer Vista's interface for networking and several other things... always understood that the hate was due to idiots that would use an underpowered machine and then whine about it.

I've yet to get my hands on a Win8 machine, but at the point, I've yet to see the appeal or need to do so.  All my machines are fine and probably will be for a very long time.
 
2014-05-16 10:19:12 AM  

pkellmey: I just love Windows 8 fast boot time of just under 10 seconds on my laptop. It still surprises me nearly every time I turn it on.


The underlying tech in Win 8 is great.  Just the user interface design is completely retarded.  Power users can usually make it "almost as good" as Win 7; but having to tweak your new OS to make it almost as good as your last one is a sign you gone and farked it up.
 
2014-05-16 10:20:13 AM  

Perlin Noise: Windows 8 is fine, as long as you install Classic Shell ...and turn a bunch of crap off...


/no really, I like it (without all that garbage)


This is a big part of the issue.  You shouldn't have to do that.
 
2014-05-16 10:22:54 AM  
The winners were always XP and 7.  They were stable and easy to figure out.  8 is stable but you have to do things a little differently.  I've had 8 at home since it first came out.  The updates have been good and have made it easier to use.  However, just last week I learned that if you grab a  screen and push it down it actually closes the running app.  Would never have figured that out.
 
2014-05-16 10:27:12 AM  
The fact is that types of computers are like types of vehicles.

You don't go off-road in a sports car and you don't go racing in an SUV. Trying to create a car that does both compromises both.

The iPad/iPhone UI design is about the amount of screen estate. When you've got a 5" screen you need things as basic as possible. You need touch, full windows etc because you don't want to give up space for keyboards and mice and you don't have the mouse accuracy to drag windows around.
 
2014-05-16 10:31:35 AM  

Flint Ironstag: Would Steve Jobs have needed "data" to convince him the iPad or iPhone were a good idea?


I would argue that the iPad and iPhone were really really easy bets.

Smart phones were popular as hell in Japan/Korea/etc. long before Americans got on board. A well built MP3 player is a no brainer as well. Multi-touch screens too. What Jobs and Apple managed to do is create a very very successful brand campaign that allowed them to be the first/biggest in the market. Outside of interface, there was really no innovation/risk there, not with such a well executed brand strategy.
 
2014-05-16 10:33:18 AM  

47 is the new 42: You shouldn't have to do that.


I totally agree ...but damn, Win 8 runs like a bat out of hell on my compy...

Admittedly, my perspective is somewhat skewed, I have a monster home computer.
 
2014-05-16 10:38:45 AM  
It took awhile, but I finally got used to WIndows 8.  I don't know if I'd say I liked it, but got used to it.  There were some things I liked much better in Windows 8, those are the things that the update ruined.

Basically, the edges of the screen are useless.  If you get too close to them, a menu pops up.  It was just the sides at first, now the top and bottom.  I can't tell you how many times that stupid black bar pops up and blocks me from closing a tab in Chrome
 
2014-05-16 10:38:45 AM  

Geotpf: Power users can usually make it "almost as good" as Win 7


No.  Not "almost as good" "worlds better" is more like it.
 
2014-05-16 10:39:00 AM  

dennysgod: I think people that have issues with Win8 are they same type of people who can't figure out how a roundabout work.


When I got the Windows 7 beta in 2009, I knew in the first hour that I was using something I really liked. An improvement over both XP and Vista, and an altogether solid OS.

When I got the Windows 8 "Consumer preview" (or whatever it was called), I knew within a half-hour that there was no chance in Hell that I'd ever pay money for it.

I'm such an open-source guy that even my home's A/C system has to be Lennox, but I can recognize when Microsoft has a good product. 7 was. 8's not.
 
2014-05-16 10:49:02 AM  

Flint Ironstag: Perlin Noise: CSB:

My sister used to work for Microsoft as a user/computer interactions expert. She was there when they decided to go forward with Windows 8 (I believe that's when she decided to quit). She had the exact same major concerns that everyone here knew on day one. She went to management to make the case for looking at actual data to determine if any of it was a good idea... This is what they said to her (no joke):

"Here at Microsoft, we don't really use data. We prefer to go with hunches."

That is when she realized that any of the work she did with concrete research data would never be taken seriously. So, she moved on. After a few jobs later, she now owns and runs a successful user interaction testing company in San Fran. She gets some seriously big clients too.

In the past, I always thought, surely Microsoft is not that dumb... maybe they know something I don't, etc.
Guess what ...the emperor has no clothes. Chances are, if they do something that looks really dumb and seems to be a bad idea, it actually is.

Windows 8 and metro were a huge mistake, but I respect that attitude far more than companies that are purely driven by focus groups. It's worked fairly well for Microsoft so far.

/Would Steve Jobs have needed "data" to convince him the iPad or iPhone were a good idea? Go to the archived forum on Mac Rumors and see how almost every poster said the iPod was the most stupid thing ever when it was launched. Funny to read in hindsight.


Microsoft has been using research for over 20 years - they threw it out with Windows 8. Many people were ousted when they raised objections to putting Metro on the desktop, and I doubt it tested well in focus groups.

Sometimes, focus groups are right, if the research is done right. All too often, companies tailor their research to match the desired outcome, which is where it fails.

Not only that, but with almost 30 years of meticulous data collection on productivity, to the point of obsession, Steve Ballmer and a few select executives tossed it all not on a "hunch" but to drive an agenda (Saying it was a "hunch" was pure spin on their part). Metro is certainly a product of meticulous research as well... centered on mobile devices. For that purpose, it was well suited. Microsoft got arrogant in thinking that they could drive the desktop users, and in doing so, they could leverage that into a greater share of the mobile market. That was their "hunch" and it failed miserably because it was based on a very bad assumption.

Windows 7 may not be the pinnacle of Desktop UI achievement, but it is a fairly well-honed, productive environment. Linux has been trying to nail the desktop UI for ages, and it is the flavors that most resemble Windows (Pre-8) that have had the most success. There have been many Linux efforts that have gone out on a limb based on a "hunch" and failed miserably, and Apple has had its share of failures, too. Apple's success has more to do with brand loyalty and fortuitous economic and technological conditions. Marketing their products with carrier subsidization has more to do with the iPhone's (and the iPad's, too) success than probably any other single factor.
 
2014-05-16 10:49:35 AM  

Klivian: Am I the only one who thought this was gonna be an XBONE thread until the end of the headline?


There was a gawker article the other day from someone who thought it was a really bad idea to unbundle the Kinnect from the xbox.
 
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