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(Quartz)   What happens when a drone gets sucked into a jet engine? Well, remember that video of a brick being thrown into a washing machine?   (qz.com) divider line 67
    More: Interesting, New York metropolitan area, passenger aircraft, mid-air collision, Scenario Testing  
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12762 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 May 2014 at 9:00 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



67 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-05-15 07:33:05 PM  
What happens when a drone Bieber gets sucked into a jet engine?


Hmmm...this should be investigated.
 
2014-05-15 07:41:59 PM  
Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?
 
2014-05-15 07:47:10 PM  
What happens when a drone gets sucked into a jet engine?

The same thing that happens to everything else?

/Now Halle Berry's shiatty acting is stuck in your head
 
2014-05-15 07:50:51 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com

NO CAPES
 
2014-05-15 08:28:51 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?


In my world, all plane engines would have rotisserie grills.
 
2014-05-15 08:42:03 PM  
I didn't see any videos of a drone going through a jet engine, birds yes, drones no.
 
2014-05-15 09:09:54 PM  
This causes what's known as catastrophic engine failure.

This is bad, because that engine is dead.


Uh, yeah.

So which is the more likely danger, my fellow farkers? That a skilled terrorist will deliberately fly a drone into the intake of a military jet engine; or some nerd who thinks it will be really funny and/or wants a cool video to post on YouTube will drive his homemade hovercraft with a cellphone strapped to the back into the side of a Southwest plane and it will accidentally get sucked into the engine?
 
2014-05-15 09:12:59 PM  
I fly with a couple of local clubs here. If anyone tried to fly near an airport, or intentionally near a manned aircraft they'd be beaten senseless.

Some of these guys love to fly and any asshat that threatens their hobby is in deep shiate
 
2014-05-15 09:14:42 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?


It would add weight, screw up the airflow, and probably not work anyway.
 
2014-05-15 09:18:26 PM  

gilatrout: I fly with a couple of local clubs here. If anyone tried to fly near an airport, or intentionally near a manned aircraft they'd be beaten senseless.

Some of these guys love to fly and any asshat that threatens their hobby is in deep shiate


You need to let your voice be heard on The Verge. Yhose asshats want to be able to fly personal drones anywhere at anytime.
 
2014-05-15 09:19:56 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?


Then you'd have a drone and a grate ducked into the engine
 
2014-05-15 09:21:07 PM  

gopher321: What happens when a drone Bieber gets sucked into a jet engine?


Hmmm...this should be investigated.


Will Bieber blend?
 
2014-05-15 09:22:28 PM  
What happens when you throw a jet engine into a jet engine?  Does it open a vortex into another realm?
 
2014-05-15 09:22:48 PM  
In the bird strike test, that's a bird carcass being launched into the engine from a pneumatic cannon. It's a test of an absolute worst case scenario, bird strike at high speed, to make sure that a catastrophic failure won't cause the engine to blow itself to bits and compromise the integrity of the wing in the process, which would make an engine failure a really really bad event. Also a bird has certain properties that a drone doesn't have.
 
2014-05-15 09:25:13 PM  
It does the Harlem Shake?
 
2014-05-15 09:26:03 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?


Imagine the grill you'd need to absorb and/or deflect a 12 pound bird, and remain aerodynamic during all stages of flight.  It'd have to be huge, both to have the structural strength necessary, and to allow enough air through.  For example, a 777 engine takes in more than 2,000,000 CFM of air at full power.  I can't even imagine a way to deflect birds while still allowing 2 million CFM of airflow.
 
2014-05-15 09:28:39 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?


Here ya go.

Screens Not the Answer to Keep Birds Out of Jet Engines
 
2014-05-15 09:29:07 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?


It would pretty much make the engine useless. It would have to be so fine that the engine could barely get any air because it doesn't take much debris to severely damage a turbine engine. Some engines already have extra intakes that open up at full power. I read one story of a cotton rag getting sucked into one and it looked like someone took a grinder to the engine.
 
2014-05-15 09:31:02 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Also a bird has certain properties that a drone doesn't have.


Back in school one our instructors showed us a film of a jet engine sucking in a small bolt.  It was taken with a high speed camera so you can see what happens in slow motion.  I think the thing got in two rotations of the turbine before tears started appearing in the casing. Unlike a duck a drone usually has four electric motors, the engine isn't going to like those very much.

Also the FA gets it's wrong. Losing an engine during takeoff is one of the most dangerous things you can have happen.
 
2014-05-15 09:32:14 PM  

UberNeuman: What happens when you throw a jet engine into a jet engine?  Does it open a vortex into another realm?


Langioliers.
 
2014-05-15 09:37:13 PM  

gibbon1: WhyteRaven74: Also a bird has certain properties that a drone doesn't have.

Back in school one our instructors showed us a film of a jet engine sucking in a small bolt.  It was taken with a high speed camera so you can see what happens in slow motion.  I think the thing got in two rotations of the turbine before tears started appearing in the casing. Unlike a duck a drone usually has four electric motors, the engine isn't going to like those very much.

Also the FA gets it's wrong. Losing an engine during takeoff is one of the most dangerous things you can have happen.


Came here to say that. A twin engined plane losing an engine at take off can be very very bad. There is a gap between the point where they can slam on the brakes and stop before the end of the runway and the point where they are going fast enough to take off and climb out on one engine. Ingest a bird between those two points and you are screwed.

Hit a bird at 20k feet (not that there'd be many birds at that height) and you'd have plenty of time to plan your landing, talk to ATC, etc.
 
2014-05-15 09:38:17 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?


Because it would suck the bird right thru the grill. A friend was working above a live jet engine on a carrier flight deck. He could feel the engine pulling his boot off.

He was new
 
2014-05-15 09:39:07 PM  
On the case:

netstorage.discovery.com
 
2014-05-15 09:43:33 PM  
No.

(looks up video of brick in washing machine)

OH GOD MY SIDES
 
2014-05-15 09:49:09 PM  
...if these should hold their peace, the appliances would immediately cry out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbh6DZHyMCU

That is a lot like what happens when my aunt catches the Holy Spirit in Church. Except when she falls over her wig usually comes off.
 
2014-05-15 09:55:19 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?


Julienne fries
 
2014-05-15 09:58:24 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?


Because you'd rather have "something" get pulled into the engine at 500-MPH than "something plus a grill." It's not like a grill is going to hold up to a collision at those speeds.

And yes, efficiency is #1. You should see the brake systems for large jets. Not an ounce is wasted, and they they work reliably. Very good example of how to refine a product right up to the edge of what is possible.
 
2014-05-15 09:59:11 PM  

Hermione_Granger: ...if these should hold their peace, the appliances would immediately cry out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbh6DZHyMCU

That is a lot like what happens when my aunt catches the Holy Spirit in Church. Except when she falls over her wig usually comes off.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rgg1WUJhUc4
 
2014-05-15 10:05:49 PM  

UberNeuman: What happens when you throw a jet engine into a jet engine?  Does it open a vortex into another realm?


28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds...
 
2014-05-15 10:11:05 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?


NightSteel: Imagine the grill you'd need to absorb and/or deflect a 12 pound bird, and remain aerodynamic during all stages of flight.  It'd have to be huge, both to have the structural strength necessary, and to allow enough air through.  For example, a 777 engine takes in more than 2,000,000 CFM of air at full power.  I can't even imagine a way to deflect birds while still allowing 2 million CFM of airflow.


fusillade762: Screens Not the Answer to Keep Birds Out of Jet Engines


Tobin_Lam: It would pretty much make the engine useless. It would have to be so fine that the engine could barely get any air because it doesn't take much debris to severely damage a turbine engine. Some engines already have extra intakes that open up at full power. I read one story of a cotton rag getting sucked into one and it looked like someone took a grinder to the engine.


Pretty much these.

Anything strong enough to protect the engine in a strike will choke the airflow too much.
Anything light enough to not affect the airflow too much won't protect the engine in a strike.
 
2014-05-15 10:11:05 PM  

Gyrfalcon: This causes what's known as catastrophic engine failure.

This is bad, because that engine is dead.

Uh, yeah.

So which is the more likely danger, my fellow farkers? That a skilled terrorist will deliberately fly a drone into the intake of a military jet engine; or some nerd who thinks it will be really funny and/or wants a cool video to post on YouTube will drive his homemade hovercraft with a cellphone strapped to the back into the side of a Southwest plane and it will accidentally get sucked into the engine?


Well, there goes my plans for my birthday. Thanks.
 
2014-05-15 10:17:50 PM  

Victoly: TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?

NightSteel: Imagine the grill you'd need to absorb and/or deflect a 12 pound bird, and remain aerodynamic during all stages of flight.  It'd have to be huge, both to have the structural strength necessary, and to allow enough air through.  For example, a 777 engine takes in more than 2,000,000 CFM of air at full power.  I can't even imagine a way to deflect birds while still allowing 2 million CFM of airflow.

fusillade762: Screens Not the Answer to Keep Birds Out of Jet Engines

Tobin_Lam: It would pretty much make the engine useless. It would have to be so fine that the engine could barely get any air because it doesn't take much debris to severely damage a turbine engine. Some engines already have extra intakes that open up at full power. I read one story of a cotton rag getting sucked into one and it looked like someone took a grinder to the engine.

Pretty much these.

Anything strong enough to protect the engine in a strike will choke the airflow too much.
Anything light enough to not affect the airflow too much won't protect the engine in a strike.


Except helicopter turbines :)

Look up vortex particle separators. The CH53E engine intakes are covered with them.

Same tech works great with me shop dust collector
 
2014-05-15 10:22:17 PM  

KidneyStone: Victoly: TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?

NightSteel: Imagine the grill you'd need to absorb and/or deflect a 12 pound bird, and remain aerodynamic during all stages of flight.  It'd have to be huge, both to have the structural strength necessary, and to allow enough air through.  For example, a 777 engine takes in more than 2,000,000 CFM of air at full power.  I can't even imagine a way to deflect birds while still allowing 2 million CFM of airflow.

fusillade762: Screens Not the Answer to Keep Birds Out of Jet Engines

Tobin_Lam: It would pretty much make the engine useless. It would have to be so fine that the engine could barely get any air because it doesn't take much debris to severely damage a turbine engine. Some engines already have extra intakes that open up at full power. I read one story of a cotton rag getting sucked into one and it looked like someone took a grinder to the engine.

Pretty much these.

Anything strong enough to protect the engine in a strike will choke the airflow too much.
Anything light enough to not affect the airflow too much won't protect the engine in a strike.

Except helicopter turbines :)

Look up vortex particle separators. The CH53E engine intakes are covered with them.

Same tech works great with me shop dust collector


Helicopter turbnes serve a different function. They don't provide thrust.
 
2014-05-15 10:26:55 PM  

UberNeuman: What happens when you throw a jet engine into a jet engine?  Does it open a vortex into another realm?


No, that requires a Bag of Holding at minimum.
 
2014-05-15 10:32:00 PM  

Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: On the case:

[netstorage.discovery.com image 640x360]


I don't see how Adam showing his cock to Jamie has any relevance to the story.
 
2014-05-15 10:35:07 PM  

KidneyStone: Victoly: TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?

NightSteel: Imagine the grill you'd need to absorb and/or deflect a 12 pound bird, and remain aerodynamic during all stages of flight.  It'd have to be huge, both to have the structural strength necessary, and to allow enough air through.  For example, a 777 engine takes in more than 2,000,000 CFM of air at full power.  I can't even imagine a way to deflect birds while still allowing 2 million CFM of airflow.

fusillade762: Screens Not the Answer to Keep Birds Out of Jet Engines

Tobin_Lam: It would pretty much make the engine useless. It would have to be so fine that the engine could barely get any air because it doesn't take much debris to severely damage a turbine engine. Some engines already have extra intakes that open up at full power. I read one story of a cotton rag getting sucked into one and it looked like someone took a grinder to the engine.

Pretty much these.

Anything strong enough to protect the engine in a strike will choke the airflow too much.
Anything light enough to not affect the airflow too much won't protect the engine in a strike.

Except helicopter turbines :)

Look up vortex particle separators. The CH53E engine intakes are covered with them.

Same tech works great with me shop dust collector


Helicopters can afford the drag of a filter mechanism big enough to permit enough airflow. Airliners can't.

Also, helicopters don't generally move fast enough for a bird strike to be catastrophic. Hitting a bird at 150 mph is bad, but it's nothing compared to hitting the same bird at 400 mph.
 
2014-05-15 10:38:55 PM  

WhyteRaven74: In the bird strike test, that's a bird carcass being launched into the engine from a pneumatic cannon.


Well, as long as everyone's piling on TFA, the second video isn't a bird strike test, it's a blade out test. The orange thing on the front fan disc at the beginning is a bomb, and the fun starts when they blow it up to show what happens when a blade fractures at speed.
 
2014-05-15 10:39:00 PM  

WhyteRaven74: In the bird strike test, that's a bird carcass being launched into the engine from a pneumatic cannon. It's a test of an absolute worst case scenario, bird strike at high speed, to make sure that a catastrophic failure won't cause the engine to blow itself to bits and compromise the integrity of the wing in the process, which would make an engine failure a really really bad event. Also a bird has certain properties that a drone doesn't have.


Taste?
 
2014-05-15 10:45:52 PM  

NightSteel: TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?

Imagine the grill you'd need to absorb and/or deflect a 12 pound bird, and remain aerodynamic during all stages of flight.  It'd have to be huge, both to have the structural strength necessary, and to allow enough air through.  For example, a 777 engine takes in more than 2,000,000 CFM of air at full power.  I can't even imagine a way to deflect birds while still allowing 2 million CFM of airflow.


How about a net of high strength small gauge wire.. only issue is vibration...
 
2014-05-15 10:49:49 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?


a little ice and its aeiiiiiiiiiiiiii
 
2014-05-15 10:51:39 PM  

stratagos: TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?

Then you'd have a drone and a grate ducked into the engine


I've seen a video of a Naval airman going through the engine and coming out with minor injuries.  It's not a problem.
 
2014-05-15 11:03:40 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?


The hamburgers would cook too fast and burn.
 
2014-05-15 11:20:35 PM  
Put the intake on the sides of the engine.
(genius.jpg)


But seriously, the 'drone' in the news a week ago was an R/C model of an F4.

And yes, the hobby multirotors should have rules but not be banned.
(If only for the fascinating and sometimes beautiful YouTubes photographed by them.)
 
2014-05-15 11:23:43 PM  

ski9600: stratagos: TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?

Then you'd have a drone and a grate ducked into the engine

I've seen a video of a Naval airman going through the engine and coming out with minor injuries.  It's not a problem.


They did not go "through" the engine. If it's the one I'm thinking of he was sucked into the intake by a low speed engine on little more than idle and his size meant he was wedged solid before he got to the blades. Those early jets pure jets rather than turbofans so the blade opening at the front of the engines was far smaller and buried quite deep in the fuselage.
 
2014-05-15 11:31:05 PM  

OlderGuy: NightSteel: TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?

Imagine the grill you'd need to absorb and/or deflect a 12 pound bird, and remain aerodynamic during all stages of flight.  It'd have to be huge, both to have the structural strength necessary, and to allow enough air through.  For example, a 777 engine takes in more than 2,000,000 CFM of air at full power.  I can't even imagine a way to deflect birds while still allowing 2 million CFM of airflow.

How about a net of high strength small gauge wire.. only issue is vibration...


1.bp.blogspot.com

but with birds or something
 
2014-05-15 11:37:27 PM  
Someday a hobbyist will invent a drone bomber. Or a fleet of baby kamikazis. Or a flying machine gun.

My bunk, I will be under it.
 
2014-05-15 11:47:08 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Also, helicopters don't generally move fast enough for a bird strike to be catastrophic. Hitting a bird at 150 mph is bad, but it's nothing compared to hitting the same bird at 400 mph.


This has got me thinking: they call it a "bird strike" but isn't it really the plane hitting the bird?

/"technically *he* hit *me*..."
 
2014-05-16 12:03:32 AM  

scottydoesntknow: What happens when a drone gets sucked into a jet engine?

The same thing that happens to everything else?

/Now Halle Berry's shiatty acting is stuck in your head


No, I'm firmly thinking of that scene from Firefly where Mal nonchalantly kicks the dude into the engine.  Then Dude #2 is all "Oh, I heard.  No hard feelings, best for all involved.  Yep.  Sure thing.  No need to kick me into the engine."
 
2014-05-16 12:06:43 AM  

Gosling: No.

(looks up video of brick in washing machine)

OH GOD MY SIDES


Seriously.  That video is instant laughter.
 
2014-05-16 12:09:08 AM  

Flint Ironstag: gibbon1: WhyteRaven74: Also a bird has certain properties that a drone doesn't have.

Back in school one our instructors showed us a film of a jet engine sucking in a small bolt.  It was taken with a high speed camera so you can see what happens in slow motion.  I think the thing got in two rotations of the turbine before tears started appearing in the casing. Unlike a duck a drone usually has four electric motors, the engine isn't going to like those very much.

Also the FA gets it's wrong. Losing an engine during takeoff is one of the most dangerous things you can have happen.

Came here to say that. A twin engined plane losing an engine at take off can be very very bad. There is a gap between the point where they can slam on the brakes and stop before the end of the runway and the point where they are going fast enough to take off and climb out on one engine. Ingest a bird between those two points and you are screwed.

Hit a bird at 20k feet (not that there'd be many birds at that height) and you'd have plenty of time to plan your landing, talk to ATC, etc.


We cannot allow their to be a V1 VR gap! But seriously, I would not be comfortable with a V1-VR gap in my TOLD. I would use short field procedure to avoid it. I also probably wouldn't be very popular with the carrier accountant.
 
2014-05-16 12:10:39 AM  

The One True TheDavid: Someday a hobbyist will invent a drone bomber. Or a fleet of baby kamikazis. Or a flying machine gun.


We already have that last one.  It's called the A-10.
 
2014-05-16 12:53:35 AM  
Is it bad that I was more entertained by watching the follow-up video clip titled "cliff jumps" ?
 
2014-05-16 12:57:43 AM  

Hermione_Granger: ...if these should hold their peace, the appliances would immediately cry out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbh6DZHyMCU

That is a lot like what happens when my aunt catches the Holy Spirit in Church. Except when she falls over her wig usually comes off.


OMG! That is one of the funniest things I've seen in a long time. Thank you!
 
2014-05-16 01:16:47 AM  

OlderGuy: NightSteel: TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?

Imagine the grill you'd need to absorb and/or deflect a 12 pound bird, and remain aerodynamic during all stages of flight.  It'd have to be huge, both to have the structural strength necessary, and to allow enough air through.  For example, a 777 engine takes in more than 2,000,000 CFM of air at full power.  I can't even imagine a way to deflect birds while still allowing 2 million CFM of airflow.

How about a net of high strength small gauge wire.. only issue is vibration...


At the speeds in question, the wire would slice through the bird and you'd end up feeding 12 lbs of bird guts into the engine in bite-size chunks. It would have about the same effect as the bird passing through the first fan stage in the engine.
 
2014-05-16 01:50:37 AM  

ski9600: stratagos: TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?

Then you'd have a drone and a grate ducked into the engine

I've seen a video of a Naval airman going through the engine and coming out with minor injuries.  It's not a problem.


(you know he didn't go all the way through, right?)
 
2014-05-16 02:38:34 AM  
Certification standards for weather balloons (radiosondes) include 'frangibility" the ability to get sucked into a jet engine and not cause uncontained failure. Total mass less than X, no metal parts bigger than Y, and the circuit boards are a weird paper-thin laminate that's not even fiberglass.I'd imagine we could come up with similar standards for civil drones, at least the ones sold to unlicensed pilots. Or we could if the country still had a functioning government and regulatory system.
 
2014-05-16 03:02:40 AM  
Actually, there's already a real-world example.  The F117 has mesh across its intakes, and it has the same problems that others here have already mentioned; they restrict airflow enough that secondary intakes, which close after takeoff, are necessary.  The mesh is also prone to icing, requiring an electrical deicer, which adds bulk and weight.  And this is mesh for *stealth* reasons, not for protecting the engines from FOD, so it isn't built for durability.

I'm not a math genius, so I might be using the wrong measure or terminology, or calculating incorrectly here (and a smarter Farker can feel free to and correct me as necessary), but If I'm doing the math right, the aforementioned 12-pound bird (the approximate average weight of a Canada goose) at 400 mph would be roughly equivalent to 64,000 ft-lbs of energy.  For comparison, to get the same amount of energy at highway speed (60 mph) you'd need a ~533 lb object (say, an adult male grizzly bear).

If you want another few comparisons, I've done some Googling for figures.  The bullet from a .50 cal Barrett M82 has a muzzle energy of almost 15,000 ft-lbs.  The M61 Vulcan cannon has a muzzle energy of almost 42,000 ft-lbs (varies somewhat with ammo type).  The M82's powerful enough to shred a human being and disable lightly armored vehicles, and the M61 is effective versus armor (though not as effective as the A-10's GAU-8, with a muzzle energy of over 180,000 ft-lbs, which also varies with ammo type).

So yeah, I know birds, bears and bullets are all very different objects, but my point is, 64,000 ft-lbs of energy is nothing to sneeze at.  Even if you could make a screen that could take an impact with that kind of energy without allowing debris through, the screen has to be mounted to the engine and/or cowling, so the mount points, and the structure of the engine and/or cowling, would also have to be strong enough to withstand that energy.

And again, remember, jet engines move a LOT of air, which any solution cannot restrict too much.

If someone asked me to design something to keep birds out of jet engines, I'd start with a very pointed cone, which would have a better chance of deflecting whatever might hit it head on, but it'd still be possible for an impact right on the point of the cone, and of course, the longer the cone, the more susceptible it would be to lateral force, and the less rigid it would be overall.

I've spent way too much time researching and thinking about this.. lol.
 
2014-05-16 03:05:27 AM  
FTFA: In a jet engine there are several concentric rings of high-speed fan blades that simultaneously push air backwards and compress it for combustion.

Someone needs to learn the difference between concentric and coaxial.
 
2014-05-16 07:17:07 AM  
Once had a Tomcat (F-14) come back from flying with a birdstrike, center windscreen (The Glass One) punched a hole in it about the size of a dime, cracked the rest of it. When the pilot opened the canopy the rim was packed with bird meat jelly and the pilots face looked like he had his face sandblasted. Never forget the tiny white feathers poking out of his skin. Thankfully he had his visor down so it didn't blind him. Was a seagull of some sort, inside of the cockpit smelled like cleaners and rotten meat after that. Never did get that smell out of there.
 
2014-05-16 07:21:50 AM  

UberNeuman: What happens when you throw a jet engine into a jet engine?  Does it open a vortex into another realm?


You get Xzibit.
 
2014-05-16 07:44:38 AM  
 
2014-05-16 07:59:23 AM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: OlderGuy: NightSteel: TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?

Imagine the grill you'd need to absorb and/or deflect a 12 pound bird, and remain aerodynamic during all stages of flight.  It'd have to be huge, both to have the structural strength necessary, and to allow enough air through.  For example, a 777 engine takes in more than 2,000,000 CFM of air at full power.  I can't even imagine a way to deflect birds while still allowing 2 million CFM of airflow.

How about a net of high strength small gauge wire.. only issue is vibration...

At the speeds in question, the wire would slice through the bird and you'd end up feeding 12 lbs of bird guts into the engine in bite-size chunks. It would have about the same effect as the bird passing through the first fan stage in the engine.


Well I think it wouldn't be quite the same effects. If normaly the first stage makes bite size chunks, and the having a screen makes bite sized chunks before they hit the 1st blade, then the 1st blade should turn the bite sized chunks into kibble, which would be easier for the rest to handle. (Note, I said *easier* not *easy*)

By the way, if you  ever wondered what it looked like if a person got sucked into a jet engine...
(Grusome image warning. May be NSFW or stomach)
 
2014-05-16 10:11:27 AM  

Satan's Dumptruck Driver: TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?

Because you'd rather have "something" get pulled into the engine at 500-MPH than "something plus a grill." It's not like a grill is going to hold up to a collision at those speeds.

And yes, efficiency is #1. You should see the brake systems for large jets. Not an ounce is wasted, and they they work reliably. Very good example of how to refine a product right up to the edge of what is possible.


Oh man, this brought back memories from first year structures class in college.  Professor was an engineering prof. teaching a class of architects...about 3/4 through every problem he would get to the part where you enter the safety factor, which is large for buildings, typically about 50% but in reality it is complicated by lots of different live loads, and he would laugh maniacally and state 'good enough for architects'...but one day he explained that for airplanes the safety factor was more like 1%...so he wasn't wrong in giving us some grief...

/I try not to think about that too much when flying though.
 
2014-05-16 11:09:49 AM  

MythDragon: Well I think it wouldn't be quite the same effects. If normaly the first stage makes bite size chunks, and the having a screen makes bite sized chunks before they hit the 1st blade, then the 1st blade should turn the bite sized chunks into kibble, which would be easier for the rest to handle. (Note, I said *easier* not *easy*)

By the way, if you  ever wondered what it looked like if a person got sucked into a jet engine...
(Grusome image warning. May be NSFW or stomach)


Yeah but the problem is the size of the chunks doesn't matter nearly so much as the total momentum of the pile of bird gibs. Animal flesh is "mostly" water so at the impact speeds in question the turbine blades basically carve through it like it was a liquid (except the bones, of course, but bird bones are really fragile compared to mammalian bones), but that blob of "liquid" is still hitting with the force of a small cannonball, and the energy is transferred in a tiny fraction of a second. For a 12-lb bird at 400 mph we're talking about close to 50 megawatts of power for the duration of the impact.
 
2014-05-16 11:32:58 AM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: MythDragon: Well I think it wouldn't be quite the same effects. If normaly the first stage makes bite size chunks, and the having a screen makes bite sized chunks before they hit the 1st blade, then the 1st blade should turn the bite sized chunks into kibble, which would be easier for the rest to handle. (Note, I said *easier* not *easy*)

By the way, if you  ever wondered what it looked like if a person got sucked into a jet engine...
(Grusome image warning. May be NSFW or stomach)

Yeah but the problem is the size of the chunks doesn't matter nearly so much as the total momentum of the pile of bird gibs. Animal flesh is "mostly" water so at the impact speeds in question the turbine blades basically carve through it like it was a liquid (except the bones, of course, but bird bones are really fragile compared to mammalian bones), but that blob of "liquid" is still hitting with the force of a small cannonball, and the energy is transferred in a tiny fraction of a second. For a 12-lb bird at 400 mph we're talking about close to 50 megawatts of power for the duration of the impact.


So what you are saying is that if we used piezoelectric fan blades, we could save money of fuel costs by usings some sort of bird-scoop induction system?
 
2014-05-16 01:37:31 PM  

gilatrout: I fly with a couple of local clubs here. If anyone tried to fly near an airport, or intentionally near a manned aircraft they'd be beaten senseless.

Some of these guys love to fly and any asshat that threatens their hobby is in deep shiate


Came here to say this.  I'm with a local club and if you so much as joked about getting your "drone" near a manned aircraft, you'd be beaten senseless, and removed of your gear.

We put a rather large amount of time and effort and money into this hobby.  We are very careful to protect it.

/we also have insurance for club members flying at our airfield to cover damages should there be any.
//only 1 claim in 4 years, for a car windshield that got a ARF .30 trainer shoved through it.  Luckily the car was parked.
 
2014-05-16 03:54:01 PM  

ski9600: stratagos: TuteTibiImperes: Why don't plane engines have grills to protect against things entering them?  Would it disrupt the air too much and reduce engine efficiency, would they be ineffective at the speeds the planes travel, or is there some other reason?

Then you'd have a drone and a grate ducked into the engine

I've seen a video of a Naval airman going through the engine and coming out with minor injuries.  It's not a problem.


He was sucked into the intake, but his life vest and helmet jammed the engine before it had a chance to turn him into chutney.  http://news-hound.org/man-sucked-into-a-jet-engine-survives/
 
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