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(Wired)   Worried about carbon emissions but the Prius is too wimpy? How about a BMW that gets 112 mpg while putting out a minimum of 357hp?   (wired.com ) divider line
    More: Cool, Prius, BMW, greenhouse gas emissions, Mission to Mars, plug-in hybrids, axles, maximum  
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3212 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 May 2014 at 7:10 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-15 05:13:47 PM  
You can buy 5 Priuses for the price of that BMW.
 
2014-05-15 05:17:18 PM  

haemaker: You can buy 5 Priuses for the price of that BMW.


5 of shiat is shiat.
 
2014-05-15 05:37:17 PM  

haemaker: You can buy 5 Priuses for the price of that BMW.


Current gen electric cars are too expensive (especially the ones with practical range).  Once Tesla releases their next generation (codename:bluestar)  with a price aimed at the common man (35-40k), things will really get interesting.

Other then price all-electric is great.  With gas/hybrids/ultra-efficients cars it's efficiency or performance.  With all-electric you get both.

/whynotboth.jpg
 
2014-05-15 05:45:52 PM  

akya: haemaker: You can buy 5 Priuses for the price of that BMW.

Current gen electric cars are too expensive (especially the ones with practical range).  Once Tesla releases their next generation (codename:bluestar)  with a price aimed at the common man (35-40k), things will really get interesting.

Other then price all-electric is great.  With gas/hybrids/ultra-efficients cars it's efficiency or performance.  With all-electric you get both.

/whynotboth.jpg


initially tl;dr.  Now i realize that the article is talking about a hybrid.  So good for them.
 
2014-05-15 06:00:47 PM  

akya: Current gen electric cars are too expensive (especially the ones with practical range). Once Tesla releases their next generation (codename:bluestar) with a price aimed at the common man (35-40k), things will really get interesting.


The Leaf makes a decent commuter car, provided you still have a gas powered car around for longer trips.  You can get one on lease for $200-250/mo depending on current promotionre, and it costs about $30 worth of electricity to go 1,000 miles.

I'm really tempted to get one for my day to day driving to/from work.  Plenty of range to get to the office and back, including stops at the supermarket/petstore/Home Depot/etc.
 
2014-05-15 06:18:09 PM  
I don't know what does it, but I have yet to see a single Prius being driven by anyone who had any idea what they were doing

/does all that smug make people stupid, or is it the stupid making them smug?
 
2014-05-15 06:29:30 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I don't know what does it, but I have yet to see a single Prius being driven by anyone who had any idea what they were doing

/does all that smug make people stupid, or is it the stupid making them smug?


Most drivers seem to have issues knowing what they're doing.

My experience is that the larger, more obnoxious the vehicle, the worse the driver will be. For example, the clown in the Smart car is very cautious and defensive. They have to be because even my bicycle is a threat to them. The big diesel-powered dually with the lift kit modified to belch out black smoke worse than the biggest coal plant? That farker can't even navigate a roundabout, let alone park the thing.

The prius guy is somewhere in between those two. Oddly, many of the smoke-belching diesels have some kind of anti-prius sticker. The larger and more obnoxious the sticker, the worse the demonstrated driving skill will be. Each level has a hierarchy.

Ex. this guy has likely repeatedly run over his own mailbox and likely parked this thing on his lawn unintentionally:
static.neatorama.com

I'm not certain he's aware that most modern vehicles have cabin air filters and that the prius guy is likely not driving around with a window down because that would fark up his aerodynamics and fuel economy.
 
2014-05-15 06:44:13 PM  
Crazy doors should only exist on classics (300SL, Delorian) or Italian super cars.

It's also an 8 series so you'd expect it to cost $140,000 on blocks with no paint. This kind of performance (not power as much) will be available on the average new car in 10 years. Hurray for bottomless R&D budgets!!!
 
2014-05-15 06:59:39 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: Crazy doors should only exist on classics (300SL, Delorian) or Italian super cars.

It's also an 8 series so you'd expect it to cost $140,000 on blocks with no paint. This kind of performance (not power as much) will be available on the average new car in 10 years. Hurray for bottomless R&D budgets!!!


Damned close, it's supposed to start at $135k.  The i3, on the other hand, is under 1/3 of that at $40k.  Of course it doesn't have the cool doors.  Or much cool anything else.  Actually, it looks kind of... meh.

img.fark.net
 
2014-05-15 07:04:15 PM  

timujin: Tr0mBoNe: Crazy doors should only exist on classics (300SL, Delorian) or Italian super cars.

It's also an 8 series so you'd expect it to cost $140,000 on blocks with no paint. This kind of performance (not power as much) will be available on the average new car in 10 years. Hurray for bottomless R&D budgets!!!

Damned close, it's supposed to start at $135k.  The i3, on the other hand, is under 1/3 of that at $40k.  Of course it doesn't have the cool doors.  Or much cool anything else.  Actually, it looks kind of... meh.

[img.fark.net image 850x388]


That looks like a Kia with BMW rims.
 
2014-05-15 07:12:20 PM  

dr_blasto: timujin: Tr0mBoNe: Crazy doors should only exist on classics (300SL, Delorian) or Italian super cars.

It's also an 8 series so you'd expect it to cost $140,000 on blocks with no paint. This kind of performance (not power as much) will be available on the average new car in 10 years. Hurray for bottomless R&D budgets!!!

Damned close, it's supposed to start at $135k.  The i3, on the other hand, is under 1/3 of that at $40k.  Of course it doesn't have the cool doors.  Or much cool anything else.  Actually, it looks kind of... meh.

[img.fark.net image 850x388]

That looks like a Kia with BMW rims.


A $41,350 Kia with BMW rims.
 
2014-05-15 07:15:40 PM  

timujin: dr_blasto: timujin: Tr0mBoNe: Crazy doors should only exist on classics (300SL, Delorian) or Italian super cars.

It's also an 8 series so you'd expect it to cost $140,000 on blocks with no paint. This kind of performance (not power as much) will be available on the average new car in 10 years. Hurray for bottomless R&D budgets!!!

Damned close, it's supposed to start at $135k.  The i3, on the other hand, is under 1/3 of that at $40k.  Of course it doesn't have the cool doors.  Or much cool anything else.  Actually, it looks kind of... meh.

[img.fark.net image 850x388]

That looks like a Kia with BMW rims.

A $41,350 Kia with BMW rims.


"The styling is unlikely to win fans amongst those of us blessed with the gift of sight."
 
2014-05-15 07:19:12 PM  

timujin: Tr0mBoNe: Crazy doors should only exist on classics (300SL, Delorian) or Italian super cars.

It's also an 8 series so you'd expect it to cost $140,000 on blocks with no paint. This kind of performance (not power as much) will be available on the average new car in 10 years. Hurray for bottomless R&D budgets!!!

Damned close, it's supposed to start at $135k.  The i3, on the other hand, is under 1/3 of that at $40k.  Of course it doesn't have the cool doors.  Or much cool anything else.  Actually, it looks kind of... meh.

[img.fark.net image 850x388]


I think the word you are searching for is horrible. It looks kind of horrible.
 
2014-05-15 07:23:42 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: timujin: Tr0mBoNe: Crazy doors should only exist on classics (300SL, Delorian) or Italian super cars.

It's also an 8 series so you'd expect it to cost $140,000 on blocks with no paint. This kind of performance (not power as much) will be available on the average new car in 10 years. Hurray for bottomless R&D budgets!!!

Damned close, it's supposed to start at $135k.  The i3, on the other hand, is under 1/3 of that at $40k.  Of course it doesn't have the cool doors.  Or much cool anything else.  Actually, it looks kind of... meh.

[img.fark.net image 850x388]

I think the word you are searching for is horrible. It looks kind of horrible.


It's amazing how cool one looks and how much of a rolling turd the other one is.
 
2014-05-15 07:25:48 PM  
I'm generally a big fan of BMWs, but I'd still rather have a Tesla Model S along with an extra $35K in my pocket.
 
2014-05-15 07:27:14 PM  

akya: haemaker: You can buy 5 Priuses for the price of that BMW.

Current gen electric cars are too expensive (especially the ones with practical range).  Once Tesla releases their next generation (codename:bluestar)  with a price aimed at the common man (35-40k), things will really get interesting.

Other then price all-electric is great.  With gas/hybrids/ultra-efficients cars it's efficiency or performance.  With all-electric you get both.

/whynotboth.jpg


$35-40k for a CAR is common man?  WTF?
 
2014-05-15 07:41:48 PM  

King Something: timujin: dr_blasto: timujin: Tr0mBoNe: Crazy doors should only exist on classics (300SL, Delorian) or Italian super cars.

It's also an 8 series so you'd expect it to cost $140,000 on blocks with no paint. This kind of performance (not power as much) will be available on the average new car in 10 years. Hurray for bottomless R&D budgets!!!

Damned close, it's supposed to start at $135k.  The i3, on the other hand, is under 1/3 of that at $40k.  Of course it doesn't have the cool doors.  Or much cool anything else.  Actually, it looks kind of... meh.

[img.fark.net image 850x388]

That looks like a Kia with BMW rims.

A $41,350 Kia with BMW rims.

"The styling is unlikely to win fans amongst those of us blessed with the gift of sight."


I'd be more likey to forgive the styling for 2 seconds of 0-60 and another 20 mph of top speed.
 
2014-05-15 07:54:23 PM  

akya: Current gen electric cars are too expensive (especially the ones with practical range).  Once Tesla releases their next generation (codename:bluestar)  with a price aimed at the common man (35-40k), things will really get interesting.


Uh, where do you live that 35-40k for a farking CAR is within the grasp of the 'common man'? Maybe we just have different definitions of common man, but for most people, a 5 year loan on 40k would be roughly 800$ a month. That's a mortgage payment in most place, or at least 3/4 of one.
 
2014-05-15 08:21:31 PM  
"minimum of 357hp"

Can't parallel park.
Can't drive 5.
 
2014-05-15 08:24:58 PM  

kroonermanblack: akya: Current gen electric cars are too expensive (especially the ones with practical range).  Once Tesla releases their next generation (codename:bluestar)  with a price aimed at the common man (35-40k), things will really get interesting.

Uh, where do you live that 35-40k for a farking CAR is within the grasp of the 'common man'? Maybe we just have different definitions of common man, but for most people, a 5 year loan on 40k would be roughly 800$ a month. That's a mortgage payment in most place, or at least 3/4 of one.


The average new vehicle transaction price is a shade over $31K currently.  Most people are taking loans longer than 60 months.  61-72 month loans (which are pretty much all 72 month loans as that's a standard term offered by almost all of the banks) make up 42% of auto loans.  73-84 month loans (which are likewise mostly 84 month term loans) make up another 20%.

Also, about 24% people lease their vehicle, which typically provides a lower payment than financing would.

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: akya: Current gen electric cars are too expensive (especially the ones with practical range). Once Tesla releases their next generation (codename:bluestar) with a price aimed at the common man (35-40k), things will really get interesting.

The Leaf makes a decent commuter car, provided you still have a gas powered car around for longer trips.  You can get one on lease for $200-250/mo depending on current promotionre, and it costs about $30 worth of electricity to go 1,000 miles.

I'm really tempted to get one for my day to day driving to/from work.  Plenty of range to get to the office and back, including stops at the supermarket/petstore/Home Depot/etc.


I've been looking at the Chevy Volt.  The all-electric range would cover the vast majority of my driving, but having the engine as a backup would make it good for longer trips.
 
2014-05-15 08:32:56 PM  
Can I get it in a color scheme that doesn't scream Tron?
 
2014-05-15 09:08:10 PM  

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: The Leaf makes a decent commuter car, provided you still have a gas powered car around for longer trips. You can get one on lease for $200-250/mo depending on current promotionre, and it costs about $30 worth of electricity to go 1,000 miles.


$200 - $250 per month is what I spend on gas for my gas powered car.
 
2014-05-15 09:16:57 PM  
We've had diesel cars that get 40+ mpg in this country for decades.  They're not gutless wonders like the 70s embargo versions, and they aren't a hideous blight on the land like battery-powered or -supplemented vehicles.  Show a Prius owner the landscape around a battery factory and tell them it's their fault.

Hippies like to abuse the slogan "think globally, act locally".  Owning a Prius is the embodiment of "think locally, ignore globally".  You get to act all smug with your MPG while ignoring the devastating impact on the water table and local vegetation a battery factory has.  Oh, and don't forget to swap out all your batteries for a few thousand dollars now and then.
 
2014-05-15 09:21:46 PM  

lordargent: Angela Lansbury's Merkin: The Leaf makes a decent commuter car, provided you still have a gas powered car around for longer trips. You can get one on lease for $200-250/mo depending on current promotionre, and it costs about $30 worth of electricity to go 1,000 miles.

$200 - $250 per month is what I spend on gas for my gas powered car.


Yup, I've been doing that math and the car is practically free when you factor in how much cheaper it is per mile to drive.  Also, there is almost no maintenance besides changing brake pads.  No oil changes, no smog checks, no timing belts to replace, no valves to leak.
 
2014-05-15 09:24:54 PM  

syrynxx: You get to act all smug with your MPG while ignoring the devastating impact on the water table and local vegetation a battery factory has. Oh, and don't forget to swap out all your batteries for a few thousand dollars now and then.


Oh, FFS, the pollution tradeoff between a battery factory and oil pumping and refining is pretty much equal, and probably weighted toward the battery factory. You just hate Priuses and want to pretend to have a real reason for your irrational emotional reaction.
 
2014-05-15 09:30:55 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I don't know what does it, but I have yet to see a single Prius being driven by anyone who had any idea what they were doing

/does all that smug make people stupid, or is it the stupid making them smug?


What's this brand of car that transform drivers into model drivers?
 
2014-05-15 09:40:38 PM  
Down here in Texas it's about a 8 to 1 ratio of pickups to anything on the road so good luck with anything like that.
 
2014-05-15 09:44:16 PM  

smeag0l: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I don't know what does it, but I have yet to see a single Prius being driven by anyone who had any idea what they were doing

/does all that smug make people stupid, or is it the stupid making them smug?

What's this brand of car that transform drivers into model drivers?


Yeah... sure

/that was what I was trying to say
 
2014-05-15 10:00:36 PM  

syrynxx: We've had diesel cars that get 40+ mpg in this country for decades.


We love our tdi Jetta. It's really fast.

Looking forward to replacing our 01 Taco with a RAM EcoDiesel (or maybe Titan Cummins/diesel) in a few years. We'll have to see how those roll-outs go.
 
2014-05-15 10:07:09 PM  

theorellior: syrynxx: You get to act all smug with your MPG while ignoring the devastating impact on the water table and local vegetation a battery factory has. Oh, and don't forget to swap out all your batteries for a few thousand dollars now and then.

Oh, FFS, the pollution tradeoff between a battery factory and oil pumping and refining is pretty much equal, and probably weighted toward the battery factory. You just hate Priuses and want to pretend to have a real reason for your irrational emotional reaction.


Not really. Oil is pumped and refined for more purposes than gasoline; air/jet fuel, plastics, lubricants, etc.  Batteries capable of being used in cars are, really, only used for that one application.

So oil gets to offset some of the pollution among a ton of uses, while car batteries don't.  If there were no hybrid/electric cars, there would be no pollution. If there were no gas cars, there would still be pollution.
 
2014-05-15 10:11:11 PM  
Frankly, I don't think I'd want to own any car that put out a minimum of 357hp.

/*runs off stage shielding face and crotch*
 
2014-05-15 10:34:51 PM  
FTA:  ...the i8 bridges those extremes with a teeny turbocharged 1.5-liter, 3-cylinder engine borrowed from Mini...

They should have used the inline six from their K1600 motorcycle instead because a supercar with a three cylinder engine just doesn't sound right.
 
2014-05-15 11:10:54 PM  

zobear: syrynxx: We've had diesel cars that get 40+ mpg in this country for decades.

We love our tdi Jetta. It's really fast.

Looking forward to replacing our 01 Taco with a RAM EcoDiesel (or maybe Titan Cummins/diesel) in a few years. We'll have to see how those roll-outs go.


GM is introducing an all new Colorado/Canyon this year with a diesel to follow next year.  Ford has been talking about bringing the global Ranger back to the US, and I saw one driving around South Florida a couple weeks ago.  It's not sold here, so either somebody paid a lot to import a grey market one, or Ford is doing some testing.

It looks like the diesel renaissance is finally reaching the US.
 
2014-05-15 11:15:21 PM  

akya: haemaker: You can buy 5 Priuses for the price of that BMW.

Current gen electric cars are too expensive (especially the ones with practical range).  Once Tesla releases their next generation (codename:bluestar)  with a price aimed at the common man (35-40k), things will really get interesting.

Other then price all-electric is great.  With gas/hybrids/ultra-efficients cars it's efficiency or performance.  With all-electric you get both.

/whynotboth.jpg


The range issue is pure psychology. The average round trip work commute for Americans is under 40 miles. But the very thought of not being able to take your car on a 300 mile road trip just freaks people out -- even if they will never do such a thing.
 
2014-05-15 11:15:24 PM  
With that blue trim it looks like a bad running shoe.
 
2014-05-15 11:26:37 PM  
FTFA: "EV-only mode ignores the gas-burning powerplant and propels the i8 to speeds up to 75 mph for an estimated 22 miles."

Bro, do you even Tesla?
 
2014-05-15 11:53:01 PM  

Befuddled: FTA:  ...the i8 bridges those extremes with a teeny turbocharged 1.5-liter, 3-cylinder engine borrowed from Mini...

They should have used the inline six from their K1600 motorcycle instead because a supercar with a three cylinder engine just doesn't sound right.


Yeah but then it would have to go to the shop to rebuild the engine every 100,000 miles just like a regular BMW.

I kid, I kid, BMW makes wonderful motorcycles
 
2014-05-16 12:21:26 AM  

ramblinwreck: akya: haemaker: You can buy 5 Priuses for the price of that BMW.

Current gen electric cars are too expensive (especially the ones with practical range).  Once Tesla releases their next generation (codename:bluestar)  with a price aimed at the common man (35-40k), things will really get interesting.

Other then price all-electric is great.  With gas/hybrids/ultra-efficients cars it's efficiency or performance.  With all-electric you get both.

/whynotboth.jpg

$35-40k for a CAR is common man?  WTF?


"Common man" doesn't mean "ramen eating college student".
 
2014-05-16 12:28:06 AM  

syrynxx: Oh, and don't forget to swap out all your batteries for a few thousand dollars now and then.


Oh no, every 200,000 miles I have to spend three grand to recycle the battery pack.  Of course, keep in mind that you have to replace the bearing on the electric motor every million miles or so, so that really makes EVs a non-starter.
 
2014-05-16 06:08:11 AM  
I do like the Volt.
 
2014-05-16 07:41:04 AM  

akya: akya: haemaker: You can buy 5 Priuses for the price of that BMW.

Current gen electric cars are too expensive (especially the ones with practical range).  Once Tesla releases their next generation (codename:bluestar)  with a price aimed at the common man (35-40k), things will really get interesting.

Other then price all-electric is great.  With gas/hybrids/ultra-efficients cars it's efficiency or performance.  With all-electric you get both.

/whynotboth.jpg

initially tl;dr.  Now i realize that the article is talking about a hybrid.  So good for them.


Hybrids are merely stopgaps until true electrical cars don't cost as much as some people make in a year (even at 35-40k, which is what some people wish they could make in a year in today's America).
 
2014-05-16 07:43:34 AM  

lordargent: Angela Lansbury's Merkin: The Leaf makes a decent commuter car, provided you still have a gas powered car around for longer trips. You can get one on lease for $200-250/mo depending on current promotionre, and it costs about $30 worth of electricity to go 1,000 miles.

$200 - $250 per month is what I spend on gas for my gas powered car.


You should live closer to work, or find work closer to where you live. That's retarded.
 
2014-05-16 07:46:21 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: The average new vehicle transaction price is a shade over $31K currently.  Most people are taking loans longer than 60 months.  61-72 month loans (which are pretty much all 72 month loans as that's a standard term offered by almost all of the banks) make up 42% of auto loans.  73-84 month loans (which are likewise mostly 84 month term loans) make up another 20%.

Also, about 24% people lease their vehicle, which typically provides a lower payment than financing would.


Where are you getting this data? In any case I'd posit that the lionshare of car purchases these days are for used cars, most people can't buy straight from the factory due to how stupidly expensive new cars are.
 
2014-05-16 07:49:03 AM  

Hollie Maea: ramblinwreck: akya: haemaker: You can buy 5 Priuses for the price of that BMW.

Current gen electric cars are too expensive (especially the ones with practical range).  Once Tesla releases their next generation (codename:bluestar)  with a price aimed at the common man (35-40k), things will really get interesting.

Other then price all-electric is great.  With gas/hybrids/ultra-efficients cars it's efficiency or performance.  With all-electric you get both.

/whynotboth.jpg

$35-40k for a CAR is common man?  WTF?

"Common man" doesn't mean "ramen eating college student".


In your world Wall Street stockbrokers and Hollywood movie producers are apparently the "common man".
 
2014-05-16 08:19:05 AM  
I think a minimum of 357 hp would pretty much make it undrivable/undriveable (spellcheck flags both).
 
2014-05-16 10:11:25 AM  

Hollie Maea: syrynxx: Oh, and don't forget to swap out all your batteries for a few thousand dollars now and then.

Oh no, every 200,000 miles I have to spend three grand to recycle the battery pack.  Of course, keep in mind that you have to replace the bearing on the electric motor every million miles or so, so that really makes EVs a non-starter.


How many people drive a car 1,000,000 miles?
 
2014-05-16 10:12:09 AM  

Crotchrocket Slim: Hollie Maea: ramblinwreck: akya: haemaker: You can buy 5 Priuses for the price of that BMW.

Current gen electric cars are too expensive (especially the ones with practical range).  Once Tesla releases their next generation (codename:bluestar)  with a price aimed at the common man (35-40k), things will really get interesting.

Other then price all-electric is great.  With gas/hybrids/ultra-efficients cars it's efficiency or performance.  With all-electric you get both.

/whynotboth.jpg

$35-40k for a CAR is common man?  WTF?

"Common man" doesn't mean "ramen eating college student".

In your world Wall Street stockbrokers and Hollywood movie producers are apparently the "common man".


The median car price is 31K.  I don't think that half of the cars bought are by stockbrokers and movie producers.
 
2014-05-16 10:14:06 AM  

change1211: Hollie Maea: syrynxx: Oh, and don't forget to swap out all your batteries for a few thousand dollars now and then.

Oh no, every 200,000 miles I have to spend three grand to recycle the battery pack.  Of course, keep in mind that you have to replace the bearing on the electric motor every million miles or so, so that really makes EVs a non-starter.

How many people drive a car 1,000,000 miles?


That's the joke.  Even factoring in battery degradation,which is majorly overblown (Tesla warranties the battery pack for life, since they know they will last hundreds of thousands of miles) electric vehicles are far more durable than gas powered ones.
 
2014-05-16 10:28:40 AM  

Fat Man Of La Mancha: Befuddled: FTA:  ...the i8 bridges those extremes with a teeny turbocharged 1.5-liter, 3-cylinder engine borrowed from Mini...

They should have used the inline six from their K1600 motorcycle instead because a supercar with a three cylinder engine just doesn't sound right.

Yeah but then it would have to go to the shop to rebuild the engine every 100,000 miles just like a regular BMW.


So three times the life of a Harley?
 
2014-05-16 01:19:03 PM  
change1211:

How many people drive a car 1,000,000 miles?

*raises hand*  1985 Mercedes 300SD.  OM617 turbodiesel FTW.  Just had it repainted two years ago, looks and drives like new.  30+ mpg, no car payment, insurance less than $500 a year, and it'll probably outlive me.
 
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