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(Kotaku)   Wizards of the Coast files lawsuit against the makers of Hex: Shards of Fate for patent infringement on its Magic: The Gathering series. Hope they have a Healing Salve for that mana burn   (kotaku.com) divider line 42
    More: Interesting, Wizards of the Coast, magicians, magic, luck, patent infringements, file folders  
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1942 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 May 2014 at 5:30 PM (18 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-15 02:29:19 PM
Considering that WotC's patent expires in a few months, I'm not surprised they're bringing suit now.
 
2014-05-15 03:27:46 PM
Alright, WotC. I don't know anything about "Hex," so I won't submit an opinion on the matter.

But if you  dare try to come after my upcoming "Manos: The Hands of Fate" CCG, you'll find yourself with an angry Torgo to contend with. Is that what you want?
 
2014-05-15 03:35:46 PM

GreenAdder: Alright, WotC. I don't know anything about "Hex," so I won't submit an opinion on the matter.

But if you  dare try to come after my upcoming "Manos: The Hands of Fate" CCG, you'll find yourself with an angry Torgo to contend with. Is that what you want?


They're supposed to be fairly lenient when it comes to borrowing mechanics from their games. Like they have the 'Tap' mechanic patented (turning a card 90 degrees to signify a change in its status), but it's such a useful mechanic that they let other CCGs use it.

You basically have to lift their game wholesale and reskin it for them to go after you, which is what Hex did. The comments on Kotaku are filled with people who have played Hex and call it a direct clone of MTG.
 
2014-05-15 03:38:32 PM
This thread already reeks of parent basement, Cheetos, and Dollar Tree lotion, and there are only three comments before this one!
 
2014-05-15 03:56:51 PM

markie_farkie: This thread already reeks of parent basement, Cheetos, and Dollar Tree lotion, and there are only three comments before this one!


really, we can get much worse, like this...

there is no such as Mana Burn in the current rule set.  they did away with it recently.  Really borked one of my decks that filled my opponent's mana pool and made them take the damage...
 
2014-05-15 05:21:37 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-05-15 05:40:14 PM

scottydoesntknow: GreenAdder: Alright, WotC. I don't know anything about "Hex," so I won't submit an opinion on the matter.

But if you  dare try to come after my upcoming "Manos: The Hands of Fate" CCG, you'll find yourself with an angry Torgo to contend with. Is that what you want?

They're supposed to be fairly lenient when it comes to borrowing mechanics from their games. Like they have the 'Tap' mechanic patented (turning a card 90 degrees to signify a change in its status), but it's such a useful mechanic that they let other CCGs use it.

You basically have to lift their game wholesale and reskin it for them to go after you, which is what Hex did. The comments on Kotaku are filled with people who have played Hex and call it a direct clone of MTG.


From what I understand, their major change was adding gem sockets to the cards.
 
2014-05-15 05:41:20 PM

ManateeGag: markie_farkie: This thread already reeks of parent basement, Cheetos, and Dollar Tree lotion, and there are only three comments before this one!

really, we can get much worse, like this...

there is no such as Mana Burn in the current rule set.  they did away with it recently.  Really borked one of my decks that filled my opponent's mana pool and made them take the damage...


I haven't played in a loooong time (still have cards in the closet though).

No mana burn is retarded.

I also had one or two nice mana acceleration decks/casting reduction decks.
 
2014-05-15 05:41:46 PM

scottydoesntknow: Like they have the 'Tap' mechanic patented (turning a card 90 degrees to signify a change in its status), but it's such a useful mechanic that they let other CCGs use it.


i'm pretty sure that patent is extremely specific, like it's that mechanic plus calling it 'tapping' and coupled with the symbol or something like that

GreenAdder: I don't know anything about "Hex," so I won't submit an opinion on the matter.


from what i understand, someone basically went "magic the gathering online blows lets do that but call it something different so we don't need permission"
 
2014-05-15 05:47:46 PM

ManateeGag: really, we can get much worse, like this...

there is no such as Mana Burn in the current rule set. they did away with it recently. Really borked one of my decks that filled my opponent's mana pool and made them take the damage...


Wow, I had no idea they nixed mana burn. That's kinda dumb. It was always a fun mechanic when it came up and made you be a little more strategic in your mana use.
 
2014-05-15 05:48:07 PM

markie_farkie: This thread already reeks of parent basement, Cheetos, and Dollar Tree lotion, and there are only three comments before this one!


Submitted links approved: 1103

Stopped caring there.
 
2014-05-15 05:56:46 PM
They've merely activated a trap card.
 
2014-05-15 06:19:08 PM

scottydoesntknow: ManateeGag: really, we can get much worse, like this...

there is no such as Mana Burn in the current rule set. they did away with it recently. Really borked one of my decks that filled my opponent's mana pool and made them take the damage...

Wow, I had no idea they nixed mana burn. That's kinda dumb. It was always a fun mechanic when it came up and made you be a little more strategic in your mana use.


When I played (~17 years ago), it was the custom to use mana burn to resign by suicide: tap more mana then you have health left, then declare your turn over.
 
2014-05-15 06:34:12 PM

scottydoesntknow: ManateeGag: really, we can get much worse, like this...

there is no such as Mana Burn in the current rule set. they did away with it recently. Really borked one of my decks that filled my opponent's mana pool and made them take the damage...

Wow, I had no idea they nixed mana burn. That's kinda dumb. It was always a fun mechanic when it came up and made you be a little more strategic in your mana use.


It was indeed a dumb change if you ask me, since it took out one of the low barriers to entry (you need to know how to manage resources effectively).

On the other hand they did have a justification for it: if Mana Burn hadn't existed when the game was first made, adding it would have been universally regarded as a bad idea.  It's not a particularly strong justification, but it works.

My personal take on it was that while it made it easier to not die, it also made it so you were far less likely to die from your own stupidity, i.e. in an un-fun way.  I can at least respect wanting to make the game less brutal for new players.
 
2014-05-15 06:44:16 PM
This may be the place to ask...are their any video games like old Gold Box games on current gen? Doesn't WoTC own the old AD&D stuff?

\ sorry for threadjack
\\ even sorrier if I'm wrong and get ridiculed
 
2014-05-15 06:58:23 PM

Rip_Rufus: This may be the place to ask...are their any video games like old Gold Box games on current gen? Doesn't WoTC own the old AD&D stuff?

\ sorry for threadjack
\\ even sorrier if I'm wrong and get ridiculed


Dunno, try GOG.com.
 
2014-05-15 07:07:28 PM

Flappyhead: Rip_Rufus: This may be the place to ask...are their any video games like old Gold Box games on current gen? Doesn't WoTC own the old AD&D stuff?

\ sorry for threadjack
\\ even sorrier if I'm wrong and get ridiculed

Dunno, try GOG.com.


Dammit! I want a modern version of Pools of Radiance! Same rules and all. Combat like similar to Xcom...
 
2014-05-15 07:21:05 PM

ManateeGag: markie_farkie: This thread already reeks of parent basement, Cheetos, and Dollar Tree lotion, and there are only three comments before this one!

really, we can get much worse, like this...

there is no such as Mana Burn in the current rule set.  they did away with it recently.  Really borked one of my decks that filled my opponent's mana pool and made them take the damage...


They also un-errata'd Winter Orb. Completely ruined my winter orb/voltaic key deck. Yes, it was a terrible deck that almost never won - but I loved it, and they had no damn reason to bork it while leaving Howling Mine alone. I am also one of the people who preferred mana burn. It added depth to the game while making sense from a flavor perspective.
 
2014-05-15 07:37:50 PM

GreenAdder: Alright, WotC. I don't know anything about "Hex," so I won't submit an opinion on the matter.

But if you  dare try to come after my upcoming "Manos: The Hands of Fate" CCG, you'll find yourself with an angry Torgo to contend with. Is that what you want?


does your game settle tha age-old question: what the fark is in torgo's knees?
 
2014-05-15 07:44:25 PM
Why is it Magic: The Gathering instead of The Magic Gathering or Gathering the Magic?
/Gathering: The Magic
 
2014-05-15 07:57:45 PM

Nem Wan: Why is it Magic: The Gathering instead of The Magic Gathering or Gathering the Magic?
/Gathering: The Magic


Because originally each expansion was going to have something different after the colon, like Magic: The Gathering, Magic: The Explosioning, Magic: The Nerdening, etc. Then they realized that having different card backs for different expansions could cause cheating issues, so they kept the original back - and thus had to keep the original name. At least, that's the rumor I heard floating around game stores in the mid-90s.
 
2014-05-15 07:58:28 PM

Bonanza Jellybean: does your game settle tha age-old question: what the fark is in torgo's knees?


"Torgo's Knees" is the first expansion set, due out in 2016.
 
2014-05-15 08:39:53 PM
I wonder if their settlement offer will be "jack shiat and go fark yourself."
 
2014-05-15 09:04:10 PM

untaken_name: It added depth to the game while making sense from a flavor perspective.


This
www.bhagwad.com
Basically has manaburn.

// you draw on the Fae to produce magic, however, during earthquakes, the earth fae surges and if you happen to be drawing at that moment, you're hosed.

// ditto for volcanic eruptions
 
2014-05-15 09:31:38 PM

yukichigai: scottydoesntknow: ManateeGag: really, we can get much worse, like this...

there is no such as Mana Burn in the current rule set. they did away with it recently. Really borked one of my decks that filled my opponent's mana pool and made them take the damage...

Wow, I had no idea they nixed mana burn. That's kinda dumb. It was always a fun mechanic when it came up and made you be a little more strategic in your mana use.

It was indeed a dumb change if you ask me, since it took out one of the low barriers to entry (you need to know how to manage resources effectively).

On the other hand they did have a justification for it: if Mana Burn hadn't existed when the game was first made, adding it would have been universally regarded as a bad idea.  It's not a particularly strong justification, but it works.

My personal take on it was that while it made it easier to not die, it also made it so you were far less likely to die from your own stupidity, i.e. in an un-fun way.  I can at least respect wanting to make the game less brutal for new players.


mana burn is pretty much the definition of an un-fun mechanic.
 
2014-05-15 09:55:47 PM

untaken_name: Nem Wan: Why is it Magic: The Gathering instead of The Magic Gathering or Gathering the Magic?
/Gathering: The Magic

Because originally each expansion was going to have something different after the colon, like Magic: The Gathering, Magic: The Explosioning, Magic: The Nerdening, etc. Then they realized that having different card backs for different expansions could cause cheating issues, so they kept the original back - and thus had to keep the original name. At least, that's the rumor I heard floating around game stores in the mid-90s.


Yeah... That's pretty much exactly it. 

Magic: Arabian Nights
Magic: Ice Age
etc...

They've been wanting to drop the 'Deckmaster' on the back of the cards for forever, but can't because of the same issues.


EnderWiggnz: mana burn is pretty much the definition of an un-fun mechanic.


Not to mention it wouldn't allow for cool things like Omnath, Locus of Mana or Kruphix, God of Horizons... 

They changed Mana Burn when they put in the Stack... Now mana empties at the end of every phase. unless something allows it to carry over.
 
2014-05-15 10:11:55 PM
Honestly, Hex is quite different than Magic in a number of ways... but there are some things that seem like they just farking copied the MTG design docs.  5 shards (colors): ruby (red), diamond (white), wild (green), sapphire (blue), and blood (black).  Even the correspondences and specialties of the colors are the same.  Blood (black) is all about undead, cards that effect the graveyard, forced discards.  Ruby/red is fire, orcs, dwarves, haste.  Artifacts that can be used with any color.  Pretty much straight down the line.

There are some real (and good) differences in how the game plays, but damn.  Don't know how they thought they were going to get away with some of the shiat they did.  Just add a 6th shard and take the elemental effects away from red and blue.  Call the artifact effects 'neutrals'.  Just little changes would have solved this problem before it started.
 
2014-05-16 12:08:47 AM
I still have the original computer game (Duel of the planeswalkers), which plays very much like if you'd be on a table with cards.

I've never tried the latest versions as the few versions that followed where too different and not really any fun.

I managed to get my old game working on my machine, just needs to lower the resolution first.

Actual cards, I have a crapload that I've collected from the very beginning, but no one to pay, nor the time.

Might have a few worth a pretty penny, but...meh, maybe one day I might go find out of there's some worth selling.
 
2014-05-16 12:27:16 AM

imfallen_angel: I still have the original computer game (Duel of the planeswalkers), which plays very much like if you'd be on a table with cards.


You mean the MicroProse one.  Not to be confused with the revived Duels of the Planeswalkers that started in 2012.

Yeah, I always loved that game.  I really liked the weird top-view story mode thing it did, where you start off with an impossibly small deck (like 30 cards I think) and have to explore and defeat enemies to find more. The card selection was really limited but it was still fun.
 
2014-05-16 12:51:29 AM
Sorry WotC, Blizzard and Hearthstone own my soul.
 
2014-05-16 01:56:16 AM

EnderWiggnz: mana burn is pretty much the definition of an un-fun mechanic.


If you don't enjoy mechanics that create strategic trade-offs, then perhaps strategy-intensive games like constructed-deck card games aren't for you in general.
 
2014-05-16 01:59:33 AM

Nem Wan: Why is it Magic: The Gathering instead of The Magic Gathering or Gathering the Magic?
/Gathering: The Magic


As someone who was there in the beginning I can tell you it's because we could not own the name "Magic" It's the same reason why "Vampire: The Masquerade" wasn't called just "Vampire".
What I find odd is that when Etherlords 1 and 2 came out WotC didn't care at all, and aside from the collectible aspect they are pretty much direct copies of M:TG.
That's a fact I'm sure the opposing lawyers would be interested in. But it's buried in history now...unless they read Fark.
 
2014-05-16 08:22:25 AM

Jim_Callahan: EnderWiggnz: mana burn is pretty much the definition of an un-fun mechanic.

If you don't enjoy mechanics that create strategic trade-offs, then perhaps strategy-intensive games like constructed-deck card games aren't for you in general.


Without Mana Burn, you open up a lot of design options.
 
2014-05-16 09:26:03 AM

Mike_LowELL: markie_farkie: This thread already reeks of parent basement, Cheetos, and Dollar Tree lotion, and there are only three comments before this one!


Submitted links approved: 1103

Stopped caring there.


To date, I haven't gotten a single greenlight while in a basement, or eating Cheetos.  Lathered from nipples to knees in cheap lotion.....well......... 1102 out of 1103!
 
2014-05-16 11:08:59 AM
Anyone with a stash of old MTG cards should look up their values... MTG is more popular than ever and a lot of that older stuff skyrocketed in value. And not just the really old stuff like you might think.
 
2014-05-16 11:31:50 AM

AUAIOMRN: Anyone with a stash of old MTG cards should look up their values... MTG is more popular than ever and a lot of that older stuff skyrocketed in value. And not just the really old stuff like you might think.


truth.  there was one rare Goblin I have 3 of and it was crap when it came out, and for some reason, it jumped from a $1 rare to a $20 rare.
 
2014-05-16 11:47:52 AM

lordargent: untaken_name: It added depth to the game while making sense from a flavor perspective.

This
[www.bhagwad.com image 200x338]
Basically has manaburn.

// you draw on the Fae to produce magic, however, during earthquakes, the earth fae surges and if you happen to be drawing at that moment, you're hosed.

// ditto for volcanic eruptions


Great series. Will start reading it again tonight. Thanks!
 
2014-05-16 12:05:17 PM

AUAIOMRN: Anyone with a stash of old MTG cards should look up their values... MTG is more popular than ever and a lot of that older stuff skyrocketed in value. And not just the really old stuff like you might think.


yeah.. problem is that if you can't really do the difference between the quality of the card's shape, even a rare that's not in top shape can easily be close to worthless.

Most of my cards have been rarely played with, have been stored in a fairly "safe" way, but I'd say most might rate 7 or 8 to me, but to a collector, they might be 4-5.  Then there's the edition version...

I'm sure I have several that could probably fetch a good 10-20$ but if only if there's a buyer interested.

I have a few hundred cards, it would take forever to look up.
 
2014-05-16 12:24:02 PM
I've got some dual lands and such that are worth $100-$200 apiece (I played a long, long time ago - mostly Revised edition and thereabouts).  Most are in moderate to excellent condition.  I keep thinking about selling them, but I just haven't bothered with cataloging the whole set yet (I probably have, oh, 1500-2000 cards in total).
 
2014-05-16 12:39:16 PM

imfallen_angel: AUAIOMRN: Anyone with a stash of old MTG cards should look up their values... MTG is more popular than ever and a lot of that older stuff skyrocketed in value. And not just the really old stuff like you might think.

yeah.. problem is that if you can't really do the difference between the quality of the card's shape, even a rare that's not in top shape can easily be close to worthless.

Most of my cards have been rarely played with, have been stored in a fairly "safe" way, but I'd say most might rate 7 or 8 to me, but to a collector, they might be 4-5.  Then there's the edition version...

I'm sure I have several that could probably fetch a good 10-20$ but if only if there's a buyer interested.

I have a few hundred cards, it would take forever to look up.


Condition matters but not as much as for most collectibles. A bad conditioned card can still be played in tournaments after all.

A good starting point would be here: http://sales.starcitygames.com/spoiler/spoiler.php

Pick the sets you collected and search for anything with a value of say, $10 or more, and see if the results look familiar.
 
2014-05-16 01:53:25 PM

Jim_Callahan: strategy-intensive games like constructed-deck card games


You mean pay-to-win games?
 
2014-05-16 06:03:59 PM

Repsej: Nem Wan: Why is it Magic: The Gathering instead of The Magic Gathering or Gathering the Magic?
/Gathering: The Magic

As someone who was there in the beginning I can tell you it's because we could not own the name "Magic" It's the same reason why "Vampire: The Masquerade" wasn't called just "Vampire".
What I find odd is that when Etherlords 1 and 2 came out WotC didn't care at all, and aside from the collectible aspect they are pretty much direct copies of M:TG.
That's a fact I'm sure the opposing lawyers would be interested in. But it's buried in history now...unless they read Fark.


What about the "Jyhad" release?  Is that why the changed to "Vampire: The Masquerade" shortly thereafter?

Also of note, from what I understand, when they made that switch, you could mix the old "Jyhad" cards with the newer, differently backed, cards, as long as you had a sufficient number of each to avoid being able to gain an unfair advantage.
 
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