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(Talking Points Memo)   Gay marriage is legal in Arkansas. But clerks will be fined for issuing licenses   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 87
    More: Followup, Arkansas, opponents of same-sex marriage, Bible Belt, Attorney General Dustin McDaniel, same-sex couples, gays, Carroll County  
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5937 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 May 2014 at 2:11 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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NFA [TotalFark]
2014-05-15 11:54:54 AM  
So you have to pay for the clerks "fine" to get married?  Just another name for a bribe..
 
2014-05-15 01:19:10 PM  
So basically the libtard activist judges gave the state an unfunded mandate.  Nice work idiots.
 
2014-05-15 01:53:33 PM  
Given the stutter-start-stop nature of the legal challenge and appeals process, I can understand some county clerks being skittish of acting on the matter.  "Oh, you issued marriage licenses while it was legal for 20 days, but now it is on hold?  Fired."

I feel like that happened in another state recently, although I hate operating on pure memory.  I'm sure someone will be nice enough to refute or back me up.
 
2014-05-15 02:00:00 PM  
Nah...
Here's the relevant statute:
9-11-204.  Issuance of license unlawfully -- Penalty.

  If any county clerk in this state shall issue any license contrary to the provisions of this act, or to any persons who are declared by law as not entitled to the license, he or she shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be fined in any sum not less than one hundred dollars ($100) nor more than five hundred dollars ($500).


And there's this other statute:
9-11-109  Validity Of Same-Sex Marriages
Marriage shall be only between a man and a woman. A marriage between persons of the same sex is void.


But wait, that statute was explicitly invalidated:
There are two state laws at issue in this matter which expressly prohibit such
recognition-Act 144 of 1997 of the Arkansas General Assembly and Amendment
83 to the Arkansas Constitution. Act 144 states that "a marriage shall be only
between a man and a woman. A marriage between persons of the same sex is
void." Ark. Acr 144 of 1997, $ 1 (codified at Ark. Code Ann. $9-11-109). The
Act further provides that a marriage which would be valid by the laws of the state
or county entered into by a person of the same sex is void in Arkansas. Id. at $ 2
(codified at Ark. Code Ann. $ 9-11-107).
 ...THIS COURT HEREBY FINDS the Arkansas constitutional
and legislative ban on same-sex marriage through Act 144 of 1997 and
Amendment 83 is unconstitutional.


So, issuing a license to a gay couple is not "contrary to the (still valid) provisions of this act" nor is it to any persons who are declared by law as not entitled to one.

Plus, in order for the clerk to be fined, the state would have to bring charges. And there's no better way to be found in contempt by a judge than to criminally charge people who are following their rulings.
 
2014-05-15 02:17:25 PM  

Theaetetus: Nah...
Here's the relevant statute:
9-11-204.  Issuance of license unlawfully -- Penalty.

  If any county clerk in this state shall issue any license contrary to the provisions of this act, or to any persons who are declared by law as not entitled to the license, he or she shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be fined in any sum not less than one hundred dollars ($100) nor more than five hundred dollars ($500).

And there's this other statute:
9-11-109  Validity Of Same-Sex Marriages
Marriage shall be only between a man and a woman. A marriage between persons of the same sex is void.

But wait, that statute was explicitly invalidated:
There are two state laws at issue in this matter which expressly prohibit such
recognition-Act 144 of 1997 of the Arkansas General Assembly and Amendment
83 to the Arkansas Constitution. Act 144 states that "a marriage shall be only
between a man and a woman. A marriage between persons of the same sex is
void." Ark. Acr 144 of 1997, $ 1 (codified at Ark. Code Ann. $9-11-109). The
Act further provides that a marriage which would be valid by the laws of the state
or county entered into by a person of the same sex is void in Arkansas. Id. at $ 2
(codified at Ark. Code Ann. $ 9-11-107).
 ...THIS COURT HEREBY FINDS the Arkansas constitutional
and legislative ban on same-sex marriage through Act 144 of 1997 and
Amendment 83 is unconstitutional.

So, issuing a license to a gay couple is not "contrary to the (still valid) provisions of this act" nor is it to any persons who are declared by law as not entitled to one.

Plus, in order for the clerk to be fined, the state would have to bring charges. And there's no better way to be found in contempt by a judge than to criminally charge people who are following their rulings.


I'm hoping there are clerks out there willing to chance it.  The only thing to do right now is wait and see.
 
2014-05-15 02:17:28 PM  

Theaetetus: Plus, in order for the clerk to be fined, the state would have to bring charges. And there's no better way to be found in contempt by a judge than to criminally charge people who are following their rulings.


Why would they care?  The state would pay the fine, not the Republican assholes doing it.  And fear of the fine and court battle can still be used to keep the clerks in line and give cover to right wing clerks from complying.
 
2014-05-15 02:20:24 PM  
Two good friends of mine (i was the photographer at their "wedding" a few years ago) ran up to little rock and got it done legal a few days ago...

fark you haters, fark you all to hell.
 
2014-05-15 02:23:15 PM  

Diogenes: So basically the libtard activist judges gave the state an unfunded mandate.  Nice work idiots.


I LOLed.
 
2014-05-15 02:26:01 PM  
Let's be clear who we're hating on here. The rank and file deputy clerks standing at the window don't give a shiat; they'll do whatever the big-C head County Clerk tells them the procedure is. They're not going to risk losing their jobs or being personally fined when they haven't been given any guidance as to procedure, and when the County Clerk is telling them they're not to issue licenses. So it's the County Clerks at the top who need to be catching the heat, not blue-haired Mavis who works at the license window two days a week.
 
2014-05-15 02:26:33 PM  
what kind of derpfarkery is this?

if the ban is unconstitutional, any law enforcing it is unconstitutional.
 
2014-05-15 02:29:29 PM  
I support traditional marriage.

You should have seen the biatchin' goat I got from my father-in-law to convince me to take the burden that was his daughter off his hands. We disagreed the other night so I beat her for a while, since I own her now.

Huzzah traditional marriage.
 
2014-05-15 02:30:13 PM  

factoryconnection: Given the stutter-start-stop nature of the legal challenge and appeals process, I can understand some county clerks being skittish of acting on the matter.  "Oh, you issued marriage licenses while it was legal for 20 days, but now it is on hold?  Fired."

I feel like that happened in another state recently, although I hate operating on pure memory.  I'm sure someone will be nice enough to refute or back me up.


You can't fire a county clerk; it's an elected office.
 
2014-05-15 02:30:25 PM  

Scrotastic Method: I support traditional marriage.

You should have seen the biatchin' goat I got from my father-in-law to convince me to take the burden that was his daughter off his hands. We disagreed the other night so I beat her for a while, since I own her now.

Huzzah traditional marriage.


poor goat
 
2014-05-15 02:30:46 PM  

Scrotastic Method: I support traditional marriage.

You should have seen the biatchin' goat I got from my father-in-law to convince me to take the burden that was his daughter off his hands. We disagreed the other night so I beat her for a while, since I own her now.

Huzzah traditional marriage.


www.happyhelmraths.com
 
2014-05-15 02:32:12 PM  

Scrotastic Method: I support traditional marriage.

You should have seen the biatchin' goat I got from my father-in-law to convince me to take the burden that was his daughter off his hands. We disagreed the other night so I beat her for a while, since I own her now.

Huzzah traditional marriage.


Marriage is a sacred bond between a man and his wives and concubines. It's in the Bible, you can look it up.
 
2014-05-15 02:33:12 PM  
I'm going to file this under "well played, Arkansas".

It is as if the Fair Housing Act was not in effect, housing discrimination was declared unconstitutional, but clerks were fined if they accepted applications from attractive and successful Americans.

This will be interesting to see.
 
2014-05-15 02:35:27 PM  

timujin: So, issuing a license to a gay couple is not "contrary to the (still valid) provisions of this act" nor is it to any persons who are declared by law as not entitled to one.

Plus, in order for the clerk to be fined, the state would have to bring charges. And there's no better way to be found in contempt by a judge than to criminally charge people who are following their rulings.


I'm hoping there are clerks out there willing to chance it. The only thing to do right now is wait and see.


Simple enough to take the next step. Just have a gay couple try to get a license, and if the clerk refuses, then sue the clerk and the state in Federal court for a section 1983 violation.
 
2014-05-15 02:36:43 PM  
I'd like to apply for a clerk job just so I could brag about beating a state in court pro se.
 
2014-05-15 02:38:01 PM  

deforge: what kind of derpfarkery is this?

if the ban is unconstitutional, any law enforcing it is unconstitutional.


arkansas

the state in which i was raised...there are some great places...little rock, hot springs, i hear the whole nw arkansas area is great...my hometown of hope SUCKS! unfortunately i have a lot of relatives (including my mom, dad, sister & her family, grandpa, etc etc etc) still in hope, so i have to go there occasionally
 
2014-05-15 02:38:04 PM  

BMFPitt: I'd like to apply for a clerk job just so I could brag about beating a state in court pro se.


Yes, but you'd probably end up crossing out the word "marriage" on every license and writing in "civil union".
 
2014-05-15 02:38:28 PM  
Oh yeah. So we'll fine the guys who issue the fine to the guys who issue the licenses. So how about that!
 
2014-05-15 02:38:35 PM  
Homosexual marriage is pursued as a means to an end. Homosexuals, by an exceedingly large margin, do not wish to get married or to form civil unions. Rather, they want to be accepted as normal. Their hope is that public approval of homosexuality will follow the legal establishment of homosexual marriages.
 
2014-05-15 02:40:16 PM  

bungle_jr: the state in which i was raised...there are some great places...little rock, hot springs, i hear the whole nw arkansas area is great...my hometown of hope SUCKS! unfortunately i have a lot of relatives (including my mom, dad, sister & her family, grandpa, etc etc etc) still in hope, so i have to go there occasionally


Ironically Arkansas has one of the largest rural openly gay communities in the United States outside of a major city (Eureka Springs), and Little Rock and Hot Springs both have large gay communities.

In this case, it's just sad and hilarious at the same time to watch the gnashing of teeth and writhing of the bigots as they slowly become irrelevant, and the fact that the Arkansas chief legal counsel is willing to defend the discrimination despite the fact that he "doesn't agree with it"
 
2014-05-15 02:40:53 PM  

Theaetetus: BMFPitt: I'd like to apply for a clerk job just so I could brag about beating a state in court pro se.

Yes, but you'd probably end up crossing out the word "marriage" on every license and writing in "civil union".


Why?
 
2014-05-15 02:44:55 PM  
States can keep things legal and still make every loophole possible to make it practically illegal. Look at Chicago/Illinois and their gun laws.
 
2014-05-15 02:45:01 PM  

BMFPitt: Theaetetus: BMFPitt: I'd like to apply for a clerk job just so I could brag about beating a state in court pro se.

Yes, but you'd probably end up crossing out the word "marriage" on every license and writing in "civil union".

Why?


Because you don't believe government should use the word "marriage", remember?
 
2014-05-15 02:45:44 PM  

hardinparamedic: bungle_jr: the state in which i was raised...there are some great places...little rock, hot springs, i hear the whole nw arkansas area is great...my hometown of hope SUCKS! unfortunately i have a lot of relatives (including my mom, dad, sister & her family, grandpa, etc etc etc) still in hope, so i have to go there occasionally

Ironically Arkansas has one of the largest rural openly gay communities in the United States outside of a major city (Eureka Springs), and Little Rock and Hot Springs both have large gay communities.

In this case, it's just sad and hilarious at the same time to watch the gnashing of teeth and writhing of the bigots as they slowly become irrelevant, and the fact that the Arkansas chief legal counsel is willing to defend the discrimination despite the fact that he "doesn't agree with it"


yes...i haven't been to eureka springs since i was little, so i don't remember it...i hear it's like a hippie community...it was a big deal a few years ago that their mayor was a long-haired guy
 
2014-05-15 02:47:59 PM  

Theaetetus: BMFPitt: Theaetetus: BMFPitt: I'd like to apply for a clerk job just so I could brag about beating a state in court pro se.

Yes, but you'd probably end up crossing out the word "marriage" on every license and writing in "civil union".

Why?

Because you don't believe government should use the word "marriage", remember?


Oh yes, your profoundly delusional fantasy world built on functional illiteracy.
 
2014-05-15 02:52:37 PM  
License ban declared unconstitutional, order will be written today.

Not a Rick Roll, it's a link to an AP article just issued.
 
2014-05-15 02:53:09 PM  

letrole: Homosexual marriage is pursued as a means to an end. Homosexuals, by an exceedingly large margin, do not wish to get married or to form civil unions. Rather, they want to be accepted as normal. Their hope is that public approval of homosexuality will follow the legal establishment of homosexual marriages.


Thank you for revealing my true feelings and motives as a gay man.

I don't know what we homosexuals would do without you straight folk clarifying our lives for us.
 
2014-05-15 02:55:15 PM  

Diogenes: letrole: Homosexual marriage is pursued as a means to an end. Homosexuals, by an exceedingly large margin, do not wish to get married or to form civil unions. Rather, they want to be accepted as normal. Their hope is that public approval of homosexuality will follow the legal establishment of homosexual marriages.

Thank you for revealing my true feelings and motives as a gay man.

I don't know what we homosexuals would do without you straight folk clarifying our lives for us.


To be fair, it is a surname.

Other people just adopted the troll, he was born into it.
 
2014-05-15 02:58:08 PM  

BMFPitt: Theaetetus: BMFPitt: Theaetetus: BMFPitt: I'd like to apply for a clerk job just so I could brag about beating a state in court pro se.

Yes, but you'd probably end up crossing out the word "marriage" on every license and writing in "civil union".

Why?

Because you don't believe government should use the word "marriage", remember?

Oh yes, your profoundly delusional fantasy world built on functional illiteracy.


Now kiss!
 
2014-05-15 02:59:26 PM  
hot off the presses from Lib rag, Arkansas Times (pay wall)
Judge Piazza clarifies order; Pulaski County has resumed issuing same-sex marriage licenses
 
2014-05-15 03:01:08 PM  

BMFPitt: Theaetetus: BMFPitt: Theaetetus: BMFPitt: I'd like to apply for a clerk job just so I could brag about beating a state in court pro se.

Yes, but you'd probably end up crossing out the word "marriage" on every license and writing in "civil union".

Why?

Because you don't believe government should use the word "marriage", remember?

Oh yes, your profoundly delusional fantasy world built on functional illiteracy.

BMFPitt: I would also like to replace government sanctioned marriage with civil unions


BMFPitt: Theaetetus: Just to be absolutely crystal clear - in your proposal, there's one institution under law, open to any combination of consenting adults, and providing all of the benefits that marriage currently provides... but it's not called "marriage". Right?

Correct.
 
2014-05-15 03:01:12 PM  

Diogenes: letrole: Homosexual marriage is pursued as a means to an end. Homosexuals, by an exceedingly large margin, do not wish to get married or to form civil unions. Rather, they want to be accepted as normal. Their hope is that public approval of homosexuality will follow the legal establishment of homosexual marriages.

Thank you for revealing my true feelings and motives as a gay man.

I don't know what we homosexuals would do without you straight folk clarifying our lives for us.


i think this exchange just summed up a large portion of why things like gay marriage are illegal...people sticking their opinions and "facts" where they don't belong.

if you want to be married, i sure can't think of a reason why it should be illegal

as the thing going around on facebook states: it's not a religious thing, atheists marry. it's not about procreation, the infertile marry...etc
 
2014-05-15 03:02:52 PM  

delta_pwnd: hot off the presses from Lib rag, Arkansas Times (pay wall)
Judge Piazza clarifies order; Pulaski County has resumed issuing same-sex marriage licenses


Ain't no paywall gonna hold me down! Oh no, I've got to keep on pasting.

www.arktimes.com

As expected, Circuit Judge Chris Piazza has clarified that he intended to strike down both a state statutory ban and a specific statute addressing county clerks when he ruled state bans on same-sex marriage unconstitutional.

In a letter to counsel early Thursday afternoon, he said he'd issue the order later and the amendment would be retroactive to last Friday, which should clear any question about the more than 400 same-sex licenses issued since his order.

Not long after he did as promised. He did not stay implementation of his clarified order and Pulaski County Clerk Larry Crane promptly reopened his office for marriage licenses to same-sex couples. "We're back in business," he said.

Piazza's  injunctive relief provides even clearer ground for issuance of same-sex licenses elsewhere in Arkansas, and not just in the six counties named as defendants in the suit. But the attorney general's office had already indicated it would move again to seek a stay of the ruling for an appeal.

The Supreme Court yesterday refused the state's appeal as premature pending a final order and also refused to issue a stay because it noted that Piazza had failed to enumerate a statute barring clerks from issuing same-sex license. That effectively put a halt to the licensing, which McDaniel said was confusing because, in the end, only two counties, Pulaski and Washington, were doing it. It won't be confusing now with the state (and thus its various parts)  enjoined from discriminating against same-sex couples.

The attorney general this morning, in response to plaintiffs' morning request for a clarification, joined in a request for clarification and final order and asked the judge then to stay his order pending the appeal.


At the legislature, meanwhile comes word for the Religious Right and Sen. Jason Rapert of an effort to stir up outrage and a little election season gay-bashing on the issue. He wants the Arkansas Legislative Council, meeting tomorrow, to adopt a resolution in support of Amendment 83, which banned same-sex marriage in 2004. Rapert continues to assert the bogus legal theory that Piazza has violated his oath to uphold the Arkansas Constitution. His resolution fails to note that Piazza also took an oath to uphold the U.S. Constitution, which he held was violated in several ways by the prohibition on marriage for people based on sexual orientation. Dozens of other judges have held the same. Rapert said the judge overlooked the electorate (as judges have done before on matters school as school segregation and interracial marriage) and "the overall right of the state to declare policy on such matters."

The Legislative Council meets at 9 a.m. Friday. I think nothing better than a couple of hundred newlyweds with family would make a nice addition to the audience for a Rapert-organized display of enmity toward gay people.

There's hope, though probably not much, that Rapert won't be able to carry out his stunt.

Rules require resolution to be introduced six days in advance of meeting of legislative counsel. Because that deadline wasn't met, rules must be suspended by 2/3 vote of greater of quorum or members present. Quorum is thirty, so at least twenty votes required to suspend rules.
 
2014-05-15 03:06:00 PM  

kling_klang_bed: States can keep things legal and still make every loophole possible to make it practically illegal. Look at Chicago/Illinois and their gun laws.


OMG 16 hours of gun safety class.  I will agree with you on the no gun stores in the city, but other major cities are banning pet stores as we speak.
 
2014-05-15 03:06:25 PM  

letrole: Homosexual marriage is pursued as a means to an end. Homosexuals, by an exceedingly large margin, do not wish to get married or to form civil unions. Rather, they want to be accepted as normal. Their hope is that public approval of homosexuality will follow the legal establishment of homosexual marriages.


Heh. Post the "learned behavior" one.

Dooooo eeeett!!!
 
2014-05-15 03:07:23 PM  
there was an article posted when this story broke last week, that showed this STONE hottie getting her marriage license, and it said she was a former Razorback vollebyball player.  she was so hot my dick got made she was a lesbian.

proof god has a sense of humor.  that girl was hot as fark but she ain't down with the cock.
 
2014-05-15 03:12:16 PM  

Theaetetus: BMFPitt: Theaetetus: BMFPitt: Theaetetus: BMFPitt: I'd like to apply for a clerk job just so I could brag about beating a state in court pro se.

Yes, but you'd probably end up crossing out the word "marriage" on every license and writing in "civil union".

Why?

Because you don't believe government should use the word "marriage", remember?

Oh yes, your profoundly delusional fantasy world built on functional illiteracy.

BMFPitt: I would also like to replace government sanctioned marriage with civil unions

BMFPitt: Theaetetus: Just to be absolutely crystal clear - in your proposal, there's one institution under law, open to any combination of consenting adults, and providing all of the benefits that marriage currently provides... but it's not called "marriage". Right?

Correct.


By your insane logic, if I proposed that age reductions be removed from voting, that means women can no longer vote and the term "adult" has been banned.
 
2014-05-15 03:12:41 PM  

rickythepenguin: there was an article posted when this story broke last week, that showed this STONE hottie getting her marriage license, and it said she was a former Razorback vollebyball player.  she was so hot my dick got made she was a lesbian.

proof god has a sense of humor.  that girl was hot as fark but she ain't down with the cock.


These ladies?

media.pressherald.com

stmedia.startribune.com
 
2014-05-15 03:13:47 PM  

scottydoesntknow: These ladies?


yeah.  she looks kinda rough in the second photo, the one in the story she looked hotter.  ehh.  who cares.
 
2014-05-15 03:14:47 PM  

rickythepenguin: scottydoesntknow: These ladies?

yeah.  she looks kinda rough in the second photo, the one in the story she looked hotter.  ehh.  who cares.


Yea, not preparing a smile can make an actual one look kinda goofy. But it's cause they're so happy. And I do agree I would not turn either of them down, but they would probably turn me down.
 
2014-05-15 03:15:12 PM  

rickythepenguin: yeah. she looks kinda rough in the second photo, the one in the story she looked hotter. ehh. who cares.



actually i'm just projecting, she bears a strong resemblance to my friend's hot wife.  upon further review the arkansas girl is nice looking, but i have to retract "stone hottie".  mos def attractive but not as much as i remmembered.
 
2014-05-15 03:16:30 PM  

rickythepenguin: rickythepenguin: yeah. she looks kinda rough in the second photo, the one in the story she looked hotter. ehh. who cares.


actually i'm just projecting, she bears a strong resemblance to my friend's hot wife.  upon further review the arkansas girl is nice looking, but i have to retract "stone hottie".  mos def attractive but not as much as i remmembered.


So what we can really take away from this is that you want to fark your friend's hot wife.
 
2014-05-15 03:17:50 PM  
I work in Little Rock, the amount of Arkansas brand "Wharrgarble Jeebus herp-derp" has reached Beijing smog levels. But more and more every day they are being silenced by others who realize, finally, that Jesus didn't farking stutter when he said "hey why not try love instead of hate for once."

We had a man interviewed on TV saying that GAWD was going to wither the rice crop, foul the waters and poison the air if this wasn't reversed. I'm not looking forward to every tornado down here from now on to be blamed on this... might just start calling them "judgement twisters" and save time...

I had some very good friends get married Monday morning, at last! It's about time the state recognizes their love for their partner isn't different than the love I have for my wife. It's about time that shiat is celebrated! Yes, I cried a little, I always cry at weddings.
 
2014-05-15 03:19:35 PM  

scottydoesntknow: So what we can really take away from this is that you want to fark your friend's hot wife.


I think we can take that away from any conversation anyone has with a heterosexual man.
 
2014-05-15 03:20:03 PM  

Bobby_and_The_Gorilla: I work in Little Rock, the amount of Arkansas brand "Wharrgarble Jeebus herp-derp" has reached Beijing smog levels. But more and more every day they are being silenced by others who realize, finally, that Jesus didn't farking stutter when he said "hey why not try love instead of hate for once."

We had a man interviewed on TV saying that GAWD was going to wither the rice crop, foul the waters and poison the air if this wasn't reversed. I'm not looking forward to every tornado down here from now on to be blamed on this... might just start calling them "judgement twisters" and save time...

I had some very good friends get married Monday morning, at last! It's about time the state recognizes their love for their partner isn't different than the love I have for my wife. It's about time that shiat is celebrated! Yes, I cried a little, I always cry at weddings.


gay
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-05-15 03:20:31 PM  
The south (and Indiana) way: always go into the future throwing as many fits as possible while screaming and clawing the ground.  You are godly... you are never wrong... even when history is sure to show you as the dumb fark you really are.

media.nola.com
 
2014-05-15 03:20:57 PM  
scottydoesntknow: These ladies?

The old lady on the left wants some of that.
 
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