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(WBOY Clarksburg)   In the least shocking news of the day, it turns out that WV mine that was the scene of an accident Tuesday that killed two, had a long history of safety violations and MSHA was one step away from seeking a court order to shut it down completely   (wboy.com) divider line 73
    More: Followup, MSHA, accidentTuesday, West Virginia, safety violations, court orders, Nick Rahall, Health Administration, burden of proof  
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1628 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 May 2014 at 2:16 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-15 04:54:50 PM  

maxheck: HeadLever


maxheck: The buck stops... somewhere else.

The buck should stop with whoever was actually negligent. Pretty simple really.

Defined as what? OSHA? MSHA? The people who voted funding for them? Patriot before or after bankruptcy?

If it's that simple, then explain who is at fault.


Steve.

I totally saw him do it.  They should fine the shiat out of that guy.
 
2014-05-15 05:00:49 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: who can also write a ticket per instance of violation.


On interesting bit of info is that MSHA inspectors have no say in violations.  they are required by law to write up a violation if they see it, no matter how small or how much of a grey area exists in that circumstance.  They do have a bit of leeway in how they categorize the violations, however.
 
2014-05-15 05:01:53 PM  

maxheck: Defined as what? OSHA? MSHA? The people who voted funding for them? Patriot before or after bankruptcy?

If it's that simple, then explain who is at fault.


That will be for the MSHA investigation to find out.

Or Steve.  That guy is a dick.
 
2014-05-15 05:02:11 PM  
 it turns out that WV mine that was the scene of an accidentTuesday that killed two, had a long history of safety violations and MSHA was one step away from seeking a court order to shut it down completely

Of course they were.  Funny how that last step is such a long one where coal mines are involved.
 
2014-05-15 05:03:24 PM  
Satanic_Hamster:

maxheck: HeadLever


maxheck: The buck stops... somewhere else.

The buck should stop with whoever was actually negligent. Pretty simple really.

Defined as what? OSHA? MSHA? The people who voted funding for them? Patriot before or after bankruptcy?

If it's that simple, then explain who is at fault.

Steve.

I totally saw him do it. They should fine the shiat out of that guy.


I didn't get a HARRUMPH outta that guy!

"Harrumph! Harrumph!"

"You watch your ass."
 
2014-05-15 05:36:28 PM  
I'm going to guess here, but the free market mousketeers should back me up here...

There should not be mine accidents, because the invisible hand provides for safety regulations.

There should be no environmental accidents, because the Free Market (PHUHN) makes sure that rivers in WV won't be poisoned. Mine accidents won't happen because...

Well, consumers will go elsewhere if they don't like past deaths and poisoned rivers.

Or not.
 
2014-05-15 05:36:51 PM  

Glockenspiel Hero: haemaker: I don't see a problem here... Job creation is job creation.

Exactly- two jobs just got created in the mining industry, plus additional work for the various lawyers.  Just think of how many more jobs we could create without the various mine regulations.

/Sadly, I suspect there are people who actually think this way.


You might find a few working at Kinder Morgan.

'[...] the oil company argued oil spills "can have both positive and negative effects on local and regional economies," because of the economic benefits brought on by clean-up efforts.'
 
2014-05-15 05:49:20 PM  
Ivo Shandor:

Glockenspiel Hero: haemaker: I don't see a problem here... Job creation is job creation.

Exactly- two jobs just got created in the mining industry, plus additional work for the various lawyers. Just think of how many more jobs we could create without the various mine regulations.

/Sadly, I suspect there are people who actually think this way.

You might find a few working at Kinder Morgan.

'[...] the oil company argued oil spills "can have both positive and negative effects on local and regional economies," because of the economic benefits brought on by clean-up efforts.'


Back in the 90's I had a friend who worked with retarded kids in Sudbury, Ontario, one of the nastier heavy-metal cleanup places short of a coal mine. One of the saddest comments she ever said to me was that she'd never be out of work.
 
2014-05-15 06:01:11 PM  

HeadLever: On interesting bit of info is that MSHA inspectors have no say in violations. they are required by law to write up a violation if they see it, no matter how small or how much of a grey area exists in that circumstance. They do have a bit of leeway in how they categorize the violations, however.


In theory.

They're not required to write everything under the same violation.  So if you have three damaged guards in one area, they can write all three under one ticket if they so choose.
 
2014-05-15 06:08:42 PM  

LazyMedia: West Virginia is what the west would be if we gave all the federal land over to local control. Two words: mountaintop removal.


You silly libtard. Once the free market has removed all those mountaintops West Virginia can become a hotbed for grain and livestock production, just like Nebraska and Kansas. The Appalachians are standing in the way of prosperity and freedom!
 
2014-05-15 06:23:15 PM  
Whenever I see people going "Oh, X process isn't so bad, even though they are secretive and unregulated..."

I think of Minimata.

That might have been an extreme case, but the same sort of sentiments were involved.... Pride in your region, a Company Town, and just corporate patriotism. Ain't no one would take those people's jobs from them!

Fracking sort of worries me for the same reasons.
 
2014-05-15 06:27:51 PM  

img.fark.net

Used to be a good sized hill there.

 
2014-05-15 06:38:04 PM  
Ah....clean SAFE coal
 
2014-05-15 06:46:48 PM  
Do those disgusting excuses for human beings have anything to do with this?

truthhugger.files.wordpress.com

Unfortunately, the slimy politicians just love those sweet, sweet campaign contributions.

Farkin' old white guys.
 
2014-05-15 07:16:17 PM  

HeadLever: Satanic_Hamster: who can also write a ticket per instance of violation.

On interesting bit of info is that MSHA inspectors have no say in violations.  they are required by law to write up a violation if they see it, no matter how small or how much of a grey area exists in that circumstance.  They do have a bit of leeway in how they categorize the violations, however.


They say that, but I've never seen one yet cite a company for lack of wearing a safety belt under 56.15005 while wearing a fall harness.  Per the letter of the law, a harness does not meet the minimum standard, because they do not have belts.

I wish MSHA would/could spend their time running the bad operators out of business, and let the good ones get on with their safety programs that truly do save lives, instead of treating us all like all we care about is killing miners.

 Some mine inspections take upwards of a month to complete, so 250 citations over 80 days or so is just 3 citations a day, which isn't bad. An inspector can write a citation for anything, pretty much, even if it's not against the law.  MSHA inspectors are the second or third most powerful federal agency in the US.  When they write a citation, you MUST fix the "problem", even if there isn't one.  If he says "You need to paint all your handrails yellow", then before he's done with you, all your handrails must be painted yellow.  Or else, he can escalate the citation, and eventually, close down your mine.  Oh, and when he does that, you pay all your employees, even with your mine closed.

I also guarantee, if I inspected your workplace using the MSHA standards, I could write citations, all day long.  I doubt most workplaces in America could pass an MSHA inspection, let alone 2 or 4 of them a year.
 
2014-05-15 08:37:15 PM  

graeylin: Some mine inspections take upwards of a month to complete, so 250 citations over 80 days or so is just 3 citations a day, which isn't bad. An inspector can write a citation for anything, pretty much, even if it's not against the law. MSHA inspectors are the second or third most powerful federal agency in the US. When they write a citation, you MUST fix the "problem", even if there isn't one. If he says "You need to paint all your handrails yellow", then before he's done with you, all your handrails must be painted yellow. Or else, he can escalate the citation, and eventually, close down your mine. Oh, and when he does that, you pay all your employees, even with your mine closed.

I also guarantee, if I inspected your workplace using the MSHA standards, I could write citations, all day long. I doubt most workplaces in America could pass an MSHA inspection, let alone 2 or 4 of them a year.


I once got a citation for a refrigerator.

hz00.i.aliimg.com

Like that.  For "exposed wiring."
 
2014-05-15 09:59:38 PM  

graeylin: I also guarantee, if I inspected your workplace using the MSHA standards, I could write citations, all day long.  I doubt most workplaces in America could pass an MSHA inspection, let alone 2 or 4 of them a year.


I have worked in mines and I know full well what MSHA is. Was not aware of the Belt vs Harness issue though.

In any case, those that complain about OSHA usually get a good laughing at.
 
2014-05-15 10:01:42 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Like that.  For "exposed wiring."


I always find it pretty funny to watch the fur fly when word gets out that a MSHA inspector is on site.  Reminds me of the parents coming home to a high school kegger.
 
2014-05-15 10:10:27 PM  
Lack of regulation IS a path to job creation. Two more mine jobs were just created.....
 
2014-05-15 10:37:46 PM  

graeylin: I also guarantee, if I inspected your workplace using the MSHA standards, I could write citations, all day long.  I doubt most workplaces in America could pass an MSHA inspection, let alone 2 or 4 of them a year.


Are you saying that my office is going to collapse? Be straight with me.

Also, I got a weird feeling that these companies operations trade hands frequently like some kind of shell game. Am I paranoid?
 
2014-05-15 10:38:56 PM  
 companies operations

I couldn't decide and now look where I am.
 
2014-05-16 12:07:05 AM  

morg: graeylin: I also guarantee, if I inspected your workplace using the MSHA standards, I could write citations, all day long.  I doubt most workplaces in America could pass an MSHA inspection, let alone 2 or 4 of them a year.

Are you saying that my office is going to collapse? Be straight with me.

Also, I got a weird feeling that these companies operations trade hands frequently like some kind of shell game. Am I paranoid?


It's possible.  I have no idea of the statistics, but I would place money that more office buildings, factories, etc. collapse every year than mines.

I do know that there are more occupational deaths in CHURCHES than in Mines every year in the US, but there's no "church safety agency".
 
2014-05-16 10:00:52 AM  

graeylin: HeadLever: Satanic_Hamster: who can also write a ticket per instance of violation.

On interesting bit of info is that MSHA inspectors have no say in violations.  they are required by law to write up a violation if they see it, no matter how small or how much of a grey area exists in that circumstance.  They do have a bit of leeway in how they categorize the violations, however.

They say that, but I've never seen one yet cite a company for lack of wearing a safety belt under 56.15005 while wearing a fall harness.  Per the letter of the law, a harness does not meet the minimum standard, because they do not have belts.

I wish MSHA would/could spend their time running the bad operators out of business, and let the good ones get on with their safety programs that truly do save lives, instead of treating us all like all we care about is killing miners.

 Some mine inspections take upwards of a month to complete, so 250 citations over 80 days or so is just 3 citations a day, which isn't bad. An inspector can write a citation for anything, pretty much, even if it's not against the law.  MSHA inspectors are the second or third most powerful federal agency in the US.  When they write a citation, you MUST fix the "problem", even if there isn't one.  If he says "You need to paint all your handrails yellow", then before he's done with you, all your handrails must be painted yellow.  Or else, he can escalate the citation, and eventually, close down your mine.  Oh, and when he does that, you pay all your employees, even with your mine closed.

I also guarantee, if I inspected your workplace using the MSHA standards, I could write citations, all day long.  I doubt most workplaces in America could pass an MSHA inspection, let alone 2 or 4 of them a year.


Where my father works, the state wrote a citation for have dust on the vending machine in the bathhouse (which is above ground).
 
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