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(Phys Org2)   If it's too hot to sleep at night, it's because everyone and their damn dog is running an air conditioner full blast during the day   (phys.org) divider line 33
    More: Interesting, temperatures, air conditionings, climatology, urban heat island effect, electricity consumption, waste heat, Journal of Geophysical Research, sustainable energy  
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2394 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 May 2014 at 10:05 AM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



33 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-05-15 09:11:47 AM  
So run it full blast at night too.  There, I solved the problem.
 
2014-05-15 09:15:04 AM  
And all the media hears is 'Oh boy. More weather stories to report on.'

So we are in a nice little vicious cycle. Concrete and AC units up the Heat Island effect which requires more electricity which requires more water which makes the area more arid, which makes it hotter, which requires more AC units, which requires more electricity ...

The SouthWest also has a view of perpetual growth. We must grow our way to economic success. But our resources are limited (except space, we've lots of that). Thankfully some cities, like Tempe, are starting to understand and are growing 'up'. Maybe the Central Corridor in Phoenix can finally happen. Maybe the outlying suburbs will start to shrink as people move into the core of the cities of Phoenix and Tucson. Maybe a monkey will fly out of my ass.
 
2014-05-15 10:16:24 AM  
Ice water enemas for everyone!
 
2014-05-15 10:23:41 AM  
Yeah, your A/C either runs at "full blast" or not at all, tardmitter.

And when you have nights that don't get below 100 degrees, you can't just open a window. There's more heat island effect in Phx from the miles and miles of concrete and asphalt trapping it in and releasing it at night. So glad I moved out of that shiathole, it's getting to the point that during monsoon season, you can watch the radar track of the storms move south, reach the city, and break into two parts, going in a circle around the city, and meeting on the other side, not cooling anything down, so you wake up the next morning with 113 degrees and 50% humidity. Which, for you heat index fans, feels like 164 degrees.
 
2014-05-15 10:25:32 AM  
By 2 degrees. Wow. HUGE DIFFERENCE.
 
2014-05-15 10:31:04 AM  
So, THAT'S how entropy works.  Huh, who'd have thought.
 
2014-05-15 10:36:15 AM  
How about not living someplace where you need to install your A/C unit around late February?
 
2014-05-15 10:48:37 AM  
Smits needs to go back and re-read the article.

FTA:   A team of researchers from Arizona State University has found that releasing excess heat from air conditioners running during the night resulted in higher outside temperatures, worsening the urban heat island effect and increasing cooling demands...We found that waste heat from air conditioning systems was maximum during the day but that the mean effect was negligible at the surface...
 
2014-05-15 10:52:27 AM  

Mikey1969: Yeah, your A/C either runs at "full blast" or not at all, tardmitter.


Central air units do. I don't know if they are talking about window/wall units or the big units outside houses because article was boring to me.
 
2014-05-15 10:57:28 AM  
Problem: Releasing excess heat from air conditioners running during the night results in higher outside temperatures, worsening the urban heat island effect and increasing cooling demands.

Solution: Outdoor Air Conditioners

You're welcome.
 
2014-05-15 11:05:05 AM  

Mangoose: Mikey1969: Yeah, your A/C either runs at "full blast" or not at all, tardmitter.

Central air units do. I don't know if they are talking about window/wall units or the big units outside houses because article was boring to me.


And since the story is researching the Phoenix urban heat island, they are probably dealing with about 99% central air. Window units are extremely inefficient there, you need one in every single room, the place is where Satan sends people who flunk out of Hell.

Saborlas: How about not living someplace where you need to install your A/C unit around late February?


Fun fact: Spring in Phoenix is from 2-4 pm on February 21st. People take the middle of the afternoon off every year to enjoy the season.
 
2014-05-15 11:06:55 AM  
I would think heat generated by automobile engines contributed more.
 
2014-05-15 11:09:06 AM  
If you're dumb enough to live in Phoenix during the hot season I'm having trouble ginning up any real sympathy for you.

"Valley of the Sun" my ass. That place is more like The Maricopa Trench of heat islands.
 
2014-05-15 11:20:03 AM  

fat boy: I would think heat generated by automobile engines contributed more.


You may be right. This study wasn't comparing different sources, just figuring out the effect from air conditioners.
 
2014-05-15 11:24:00 AM  
"The authors simulated a 10-day period, covering ten extreme heat days from July 10 to 19 of 2009. They used the non-hydrostatic version of the Weather Research and Forecasting (WRF) model coupled to the Noah land surface model to analyze the contribution of AC systems on air temperature. To evaluate the ability of WRF to reproduce the near-surface climatology, eleven weather stations maintained by the National Weather Service and the Arizona Meteorological Network were used."

Let me get this straight. They used computer modelling to simulate something that two grad students could easily go out and monitor with actual thermometers. Then they get results that would, if true, explain almost all of the Phoenix Urban Heat Island effect is actually due, not to heat retention by the urban environment as previously thought, but from running AC units which are only a small fraction of the waste heat produced in the city. (The heat island around phoenix produces temperatures that are 2-5 degrees warmer than the surrounding environment.  This study claims that almost 2 degrees of that effect is due to waste heat from AC units, and the study doesn't even claim to have looked at larger sources of waste heat like power plants, engines, industrial plants, industrial AC units, etc).

So their computer simulation has produced a result that doesn't pass the smell test, and they haven't bothered to go out with physical gear and actually measure temperatures in neighborhoods where night time AC is in use compared to those where it isn't (which given the number of abandoned neighborhoods still left from the housing crash would have been easy enough to do).  But yeah, great study.
 
2014-05-15 11:28:25 AM  
I wish my dog was running his AC. That dog house is always so humid, and he won't open the windows.
 
2014-05-15 11:30:18 AM  
Sam Kinison unavailable for comment.
 
2014-05-15 11:51:39 AM  

Mikey1969: Yeah, your A/C either runs at "full blast" or not at all, tardmitter.


We've got a two-stage compressor.
 
2014-05-15 11:52:46 AM  
Air conditioning is pointless where I live. We get maybe a few days a year where the weather is hot enough to warrant it, and it's never in places that need AC the most, like kitchens.
 
2014-05-15 12:07:56 PM  

jfarkinB: Mikey1969: Yeah, your A/C either runs at "full blast" or not at all, tardmitter.

We've got a two-stage compressor.


But nothing YOU do puts the A/C unit on "full blast". It's still a stupid term to use.

Stone Meadow: If you're dumb enough to live in Phoenix during the hot season I'm having trouble ginning up any real sympathy for you.

"Valley of the Sun" my ass. That place is more like The Maricopa Trench of heat islands.


Because moving out of state is SO affordable. I think we spent 3 Grand to get the fark out of there. It's not "dumb" for a lot of people, it's that they don't have 3 Grand, plus a month or two of rent utility and food money until they find a new job where they move to.
 
2014-05-15 12:17:42 PM  

StrikitRich: Smits needs to go back and re-read the article.

FTA:   A team of researchers from Arizona State University has found that releasing excess heat from air conditioners running during the night resulted in higher outside temperatures, worsening the urban heat island effect and increasing cooling demands...We found that waste heat from air conditioning systems was maximum during the day but that the mean effect was negligible at the surface...


I have an idea.

Heat pump water heaters.

They expel cool air because they take heat out of the ambient air and use it to heat the water.
 
2014-05-15 12:23:09 PM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Solution: Outdoor Air Conditioners


A few people have discussed installing giant solar updraft towers around the Phoenix metro.  One benefit is that they'd help break up the air between the surface and sky.


The My Little Pony Killer: Air conditioning is pointless where I live. We get maybe a few days a year where the weather is hot enough to warrant it, and it's never in places that need AC the most, like kitchens.


Consider a heat pump instead.  They're an HVAC system that can both cool and heat, depending on which way the refrigerant is moving through the system.  Many also come with an electric heating element for especially cold nights when efficiency drops, or they can be tied into a hybrid system with supplemental gas or oil heat.


Stone Meadow: If you're dumb enough to live in Phoenix during the hot season I'm having trouble ginning up any real sympathy for you.


You never have to shovel snow in the winter.  Your car doesn't rot from all of the rock salt.  No tornadoes.  Few earthquakes.  The sky is usually blue.  And for most of the warm season, if you get outside before 9AM, it is usually nice.  I'd rather suffer through a Phoenix summer than a Minneapolis winter.

Fark the killer bees and old people, though.  Although AZ seniors are marginally better than FL seniors.
 
2014-05-15 01:43:43 PM  

Dinjiin: You never have to shovel snow in the winter.  Your car doesn't rot from all of the rock salt.  No tornadoes.  Few earthquakes.  The sky is usually blue.  And for most of the warm season, if you get outside before 9AM, it is usually nice.  I'd rather suffer through a Phoenix summer than a Minneapolis winter.


Hard to argue with that logic... :)
 
2014-05-15 02:13:31 PM  

Dinjiin: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Solution: Outdoor Air Conditioners

A few people have discussed installing giant solar updraft towers around the Phoenix metro.  One benefit is that they'd help break up the air between the surface and sky.


http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=2235
 
2014-05-15 02:32:49 PM  

Stone Meadow: Dinjiin: You never have to shovel snow in the winter.  Your car doesn't rot from all of the rock salt.  No tornadoes.  Few earthquakes.  The sky is usually blue.  And for most of the warm season, if you get outside before 9AM, it is usually nice.  I'd rather suffer through a Phoenix summer than a Minneapolis winter.

Hard to argue with that logic... :)


I'm a step down from Phoenix (San Antonio), and Dinjin absolutely nailed it.

Plus, here I can garden, and have two growing seasons. Nature just kind of shuts down between July and Labor Day.
 
2014-05-15 03:56:23 PM  

fat boy: I would think heat generated by automobile engines contributed more.


And the friction of brakes on those cars.

And the friction of the tires on the road of those cars.

And the friction of bike tires on the road.

And the friction of the shoes on the sidewalks of people walking.


All processes are inefficient in the real world. Those inefficiencies are expressed as heat, sound or both.
 
2014-05-15 03:57:55 PM  

Talondel: "The authors simulated a 10-day period, covering ten extreme heat days from July 10 to 19 of 2009. They used the non-hydrostatic version of the Weather Research and Forecasting (WRF) model coupled to the Noah land surface model to analyze the contribution of AC systems on air temperature. To evaluate the ability of WRF to reproduce the near-surface climatology, eleven weather stations maintained by the National Weather Service and the Arizona Meteorological Network were used."

Let me get this straight. They used computer modelling to simulate something that two grad students could easily go out and monitor with actual thermometers. Then they get results that would, if true, explain almost all of the Phoenix Urban Heat Island effect is actually due, not to heat retention by the urban environment as previously thought, but from running AC units which are only a small fraction of the waste heat produced in the city. (The heat island around phoenix produces temperatures that are 2-5 degrees warmer than the surrounding environment.  This study claims that almost 2 degrees of that effect is due to waste heat from AC units, and the study doesn't even claim to have looked at larger sources of waste heat like power plants, engines, industrial plants, industrial AC units, etc).

So their computer simulation has produced a result that doesn't pass the smell test, and they haven't bothered to go out with physical gear and actually measure temperatures in neighborhoods where night time AC is in use compared to those where it isn't (which given the number of abandoned neighborhoods still left from the housing crash would have been easy enough to do).  But yeah, great study.


You win 10 internets. Go to Dogebank for your payday.
 
2014-05-15 04:00:33 PM  

Dinjiin: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Solution: Outdoor Air Conditioners

A few people have discussed installing giant solar updraft towers around the Phoenix metro.  One benefit is that they'd help break up the air between the surface and sky.


The My Little Pony Killer: Air conditioning is pointless where I live. We get maybe a few days a year where the weather is hot enough to warrant it, and it's never in places that need AC the most, like kitchens.

Consider a heat pump instead.  They're an HVAC system that can both cool and heat, depending on which way the refrigerant is moving through the system.  Many also come with an electric heating element for especially cold nights when efficiency drops, or they can be tied into a hybrid system with supplemental gas or oil heat.


Stone Meadow: If you're dumb enough to live in Phoenix during the hot season I'm having trouble ginning up any real sympathy for you.

You never have to shovel snow in the winter.  Your car doesn't rot from all of the rock salt.  No tornadoes.  Few earthquakes.  The sky is usually blue.  And for most of the warm season, if you get outside before 9AM, it is usually nice.  I'd rather suffer through a Phoenix summer than a Minneapolis winter.

Fark the killer bees and old people, though.  Although AZ seniors are marginally better than FL seniors.


You can always put on more clothes to warm up. When it gets too hot, nothing else to take off.
 
2014-05-15 05:28:17 PM  
Wonderful time to be in hvac! Though we mostly do geothermal systems, great savings in the winter, decent savings in the warmer months.

Now in floor hydronic geothermal systems, fluid refrigerant heat transfer that is the epitome of efficiency.
 
2014-05-15 05:53:03 PM  

Saborlas: How about not living someplace where you need to install your A/C unit around late February?



I'm pretty sure I've read that the US spends more energy on HEATING during the winter than COOLING during the summer.
 
2014-05-15 06:46:54 PM  

Bullseyed: You can always put on more clothes to warm up. When it gets too hot, nothing else to take off.


Light colored loose fitting clothes with a hat are actually better than no clothes in the heat.  It creates air circulation across your skin and keeps the sun off of you.  Or you can jump into a pool if you want to go sans clothing.

In Minneapolis, the warmest time of a winter day usually requires you to dress up.  In Phoenix, the mornings in the summer are usually cool enough to be tolerable, if not pleasant.  Both places usually experience a heat wave for a week to render both of those statements false, but that's more the exception than the rule.


/does yard work up to 105F
//just take it easy when it gets above 95F
 
2014-05-15 08:12:36 PM  

nekom: So run it full blast at night too.  There, I solved the problem.


Aaand done.
 
2014-05-15 10:21:49 PM  

meat0918: StrikitRich: Smits needs to go back and re-read the article.

FTA:   A team of researchers from Arizona State University has found that releasing excess heat from air conditioners running during the night resulted in higher outside temperatures, worsening the urban heat island effect and increasing cooling demands...We found that waste heat from air conditioning systems was maximum during the day but that the mean effect was negligible at the surface...

I have an idea.

Heat pump water heaters.

They expel cool air because they take heat out of the ambient air and use it to heat the water.


They make them. You can also go further and get AC units that pump heat into the ground rather than the air, more expensive up front but also more efficient.
 
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