If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Righto)   A teardown of a genuine iPad charger and a knockoff illustrates why you should pay for the real thing   (righto.com) divider line 75
    More: Interesting, iPads, Chargers, diodes, iPad charger, transformers, High Frequency PWM Conversion, electronics manufacturing, MMI  
•       •       •

9026 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 May 2014 at 4:23 PM (14 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



75 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-05-14 03:14:41 PM
Wow that was certainly technical.
 
2014-05-14 03:26:34 PM
Or: You gotta watch out with transformers, there's more than meets the eye.
 
2014-05-14 03:30:55 PM
I like how they have a spark gap.  Sure, Apple gets to have them, but if I build a spark gap transmitter and use it, the FCC will be on me like white on rice.


And by white, I mean my precious bodily fluids, and by Rice, I mean the former national security advisor.  'Cause I'd hit it.
 
2014-05-14 03:44:40 PM
See Homer, all that stuff in there is why your robot didn't work.
 
2014-05-14 03:49:37 PM
I don't understand a single thing on there. All I know is that my knock-off lightning charger worked perfectly fine before the iOS 7 update and now it'shiat or miss on whether it actually works (gives me that stupid "This accessory might not be supported" bullshiat)
 
2014-05-14 04:06:22 PM
Huh.

And here I thought it was just wires in there. It would seem the ridiculous price difference is actually justified in this instance. At least partially.

Who knew?
 
2014-05-14 04:10:05 PM
TLDR: The actual power supply has lots of extra components, and federally mandated air gaps between high and low power components to keep your house from burning down, shocking you to death, and allowing your touch screen to work while plugged in (not to mention charging your iPad quicker)... the counterfeit version, Designed by California, has a miniscule gap which could fry you, very minimal power filtering and fault detection, and will try to kill you and yours if you even think about plugging it in.

Spend the extra money for a decent power adapter.  Buy counterfeit purses if you really feel the need.
 
2014-05-14 04:12:04 PM
So knockoff Rolex looks good just keeps shiat time but knockoff iPad charger might kill you
 
2014-05-14 04:15:58 PM

solar8554: So knockoff Rolex looks good just keeps shiat time but knockoff iPad charger might kill you


Unless it's a simple quartz watch inside a fancy-looking case, at which point it's actually far MORE accurate.
 
2014-05-14 04:22:37 PM

whistleridge: solar8554: So knockoff Rolex looks good just keeps shiat time but knockoff iPad charger might kill you

Unless it's a simple quartz watch inside a fancy-looking case, at which point it's actually far MORE accurate.


And that's why I love casio
 
2014-05-14 04:30:56 PM
I thought flyback transformers were used in DC-DC conversion (usually step up) with switch supplies.  Why would it be used to step down 120VAC to whatever DC is used by the battery?
 
2014-05-14 04:32:16 PM
Thank you, Apple employee, for submitting this...
 
2014-05-14 04:34:55 PM
Or you can buy something non-apple and have availability of parts that work just as well as the original and you don't have to feel like a hipster douche.
 
2014-05-14 04:35:02 PM
So question for the (smarter than I) masses...does the same hold for the cord?  I use a true apple charger base...and a off manufacturer cord.

Am I doing it wrong?

/wouldnt be the first time
//i like slashies, they're not cool anymore, huh?
 
2014-05-14 04:35:45 PM

James!: Thank you, Apple employee, for submitting this...


Agreed. That was hardly gay at all.
 
2014-05-14 04:36:28 PM
I have so much crap that runs on microUSB that paying $30 for a proprietary plug seems completely retarded.
 
2014-05-14 04:38:06 PM
Hey, I have no problem using an Apple charger on my Windows phone.  The USB slot works just as well as any other!
 
2014-05-14 04:38:33 PM
My iPhone wall charger is a little one-inch white cube. WTF is this shiat?
 
2014-05-14 04:38:48 PM

Brontes: I thought flyback transformers were used in DC-DC conversion (usually step up) with switch supplies.  Why would it be used to step down 120VAC to whatever DC is used by the battery?


He explains flyback transformers better than my formal electronics training ever did.

He also got so technical that he gave me a headache.
 
2014-05-14 04:40:20 PM

Tr0mBoNe: Or: You gotta watch out with transformers, there's more than meets the eye.

</thread>
 
2014-05-14 04:42:15 PM

wildcardjack: My iPhone wall charger is a little one-inch white cube. WTF is this shiat?


This is for an iPad. Try plugging a iPad into an iPhone charger and you may get 20% more battery in 4 hours, versus a full charge with the iPad charger.
 
2014-05-14 04:44:09 PM
the complexity of the iPad official charger sickens me. The knockoff is still ridiculous. its a trickle charger, theres no reason it needs to be that huge.
 
2014-05-14 04:48:15 PM

Foundling: Brontes: I thought flyback transformers were used in DC-DC conversion (usually step up) with switch supplies.  Why would it be used to step down 120VAC to whatever DC is used by the battery?

He explains flyback transformers better than my formal electronics training ever did.

He also got so technical that he gave me a headache.


I read his write-up on the flyback, but it doesn't seem right.  The reason to use a switching power supply is because if you run DC through a transformer, nothing happens, so you have to switch it make an AC signal.  The power in is still 120VAC, so why the need to switch the power supply?

Seems like it should be 120VAC steps down to a lower VAC, then rectified, filtered to DC, and cleaned up.  Add feedback ICs to monitor current, regulate heat, etc.
 
2014-05-14 04:53:18 PM

moothemagiccow: I have so much crap that runs on microUSB that paying $30 for a proprietary plug seems completely retarded.


Well, the iPads a d iPhones require a lightning (thunderbolt) connector now, but the other end is USB so you should still be able to charge from any USB port that puts out enough juice.

Micro-USB pisses me off. It doesn't need to exist.  Mini-USB was already small enough, we didn't need another connector that looks similar but is just a tiny bit smaller.
 
2014-05-14 04:53:49 PM
Wonder what the power factor of both are

/My bet is ~.97 for the Apple, ~.5 for the knockoff
 
2014-05-14 04:56:44 PM

Brontes: The power in is still 120VAC, so why the need to switch the power supply?


Frequency and transformer size. At 60 Hz you would need a huge block of iron, but if you first convert the 120VAC into high-voltage DC and then switch that at a much higher frequency then you can use a much smaller transformer.
 
2014-05-14 05:00:54 PM

ToastTheRabbit: the complexity of the iPad official charger sickens me. The knockoff is still ridiculous. its a trickle charger, theres no reason it needs to be that huge.


Wow, you really know your shiat. Tell us more!
 
2014-05-14 05:01:38 PM
And that's just the charger.  Imagine what corners they cut in your cheap-ass laptop.
 
2014-05-14 05:34:23 PM
It's got Sony guts.
 
2014-05-14 05:40:40 PM

TuteTibiImperes: moothemagiccow: I have so much crap that runs on microUSB that paying $30 for a proprietary plug seems completely retarded.

Well, the iPads a d iPhones require a lightning (thunderbolt) connector now, but the other end is USB so you should still be able to charge from any USB port that puts out enough juice.

Micro-USB pisses me off. It doesn't need to exist.  Mini-USB was already small enough, we didn't need another connector that looks similar but is just a tiny bit smaller.


I'm just excited for USB type-C. Should clear up a TON of issues. No more "flip the connector 5 times to get it to plug in", smaller, more durable, supports higher current and removes the need for 3 different sizes of gadget ends with a 4 size for the plug end.
 
2014-05-14 05:41:38 PM
So that charger at WalMart is ?????
Who knew?
 
2014-05-14 05:43:27 PM
Red Tape

Yet another safety feature.
 
2014-05-14 05:50:37 PM

doglover: Red Tape

Yet another safety feature.


Kapton tape, super useful stuff
 
2014-05-14 05:50:53 PM

Ivo Shandor: Brontes: The power in is still 120VAC, so why the need to switch the power supply?

Frequency and transformer size. At 60 Hz you would need a huge block of iron, but if you first convert the 120VAC into high-voltage DC and then switch that at a much higher frequency then you can use a much smaller transformer.


Gotcha.  I've done 3 - 9VDC stepped up to 320VDC and the switching was at like 80KHz and the transformers were all small.  Never thought about it in reverse, but it makes sense.  Thanks!
 
2014-05-14 05:58:26 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: Hey, I have no problem using an Apple charger on my Windows phone.  The USB slot works just as well as any other!


The downside to your scenario is that you have to use a Windows phone.
 
2014-05-14 05:59:25 PM
The problem is with the shiaty Apple made CABLE, I went through 3 Apple made lighting cables in 3-5 months. Found a knockoff on Amazon and never looked back.
 
2014-05-14 06:02:26 PM
Understanding the math is great, it's the might kill you part that seems troublesome
 
2014-05-14 06:02:50 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: Hey, I have no problem using an Apple charger on my Windows phone.  The USB slot works just as well as any other!


I plug my lighting cables into my Nokia wall charger and it seems to charge my iPad mini faster
 
2014-05-14 06:12:43 PM

iron de havilland: Representative of the unwashed masses: Hey, I have no problem using an Apple charger on my Windows phone.  The USB slot works just as well as any other!

The downside to your scenario is that you have to use a Windows phone.


Everyone I have ever talked to that has used one, in addition to myself, find that while the app selection isn't as good as android or apple feels that the Windows phone is as good or better than either of those systems.
 
2014-05-14 06:13:34 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: The problem is with the shiaty Apple made CABLE, I went through 3 Apple made lighting cables in 3-5 months. Found a knockoff on Amazon and never looked back.


I've repaired a few Apple Lightning cables. They seem to use thinner wires for +5VDC and GND lines than most other USB cables on the market (In fact, they seem to be the same thickness as what most cables use for the data lines), plus the grips have no stress relief for the cables (knots or press moulded plastic that tightly holds the cable jacket and prevents stress from the cables being pulled) so the cable comes in though a loose sleeve (stress relief for bending the wire outside of the grip)  and then gets routed straight to the USB or Lightning connector pads

Second time I fixed one of these, I also flooded the empty space around the wires inside the grip with epoxy to prevent this from happening again
 
2014-05-14 06:19:43 PM
I'll go with no.
 
2014-05-14 06:40:57 PM

ToastTheRabbit: the complexity of the iPad official charger sickens me. The knockoff is still ridiculous. its a trickle charger, theres no reason it needs to be that huge.


Farking monsters, they is. Can barely fit 4 of them in your hand.
 
2014-05-14 06:42:23 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: iron de havilland: Representative of the unwashed masses: Hey, I have no problem using an Apple charger on my Windows phone.  The USB slot works just as well as any other!

The downside to your scenario is that you have to use a Windows phone.

Everyone I have ever talked to that has used one, in addition to myself, find that while the app selection isn't as good as android or apple feels that the Windows phone is as good or better than either of those systems.


In all honesty, I've never used a Windows phone. I was just making a snarky comment. But I've no intention to try one either, as the interface looks horrible in the adverts. And the whole "one single platform, from phones to tablets to PCs" message in Microsoft's marketing is stupid as well.

I haven't used Windows 8 on a PC either, but most of the complaints I've read about it seem to stem from it breaking all the desktop metaphors that Windows has used since Windows 95. and forcing the use of a tablet computer metaphor on desktop users.

I'm no MS hater, by the way. Win2k ended up a sound product, as did XP. The computer on which I'm typing this would be running Win7, apart from the fact I lost the OEM key, so It was easier to install Linux rather than faff about buying a new key. I'm also quite fond of my 2007 Macbook, which has been a real trooper over the years, despite no longer being supported for goshwow upgrades. I'd like my Samsung Galaxy SII a shiatlot more if the farking micro-usb charger would remain seated in the port. Probably end up with an S5 soon, though... but, I think my favourite phone ever was my Blackberry; QWERTY keyboard > touch screen emulation.

My point? I think "Windows phone" and I remember previous crappy Windows phones (CE-based?) and Zune.

/And the crappy advertising.
//And always let other chumps beta-test MS products before you buy them; they're usually usable by OSR2.
 
2014-05-14 06:49:10 PM

iron de havilland: In all honesty, I've never used a Windows phone. I was just making a snarky comment. But I've no intention to try one either, as the interface looks horrible in the adverts. And the whole "one single platform, from phones to tablets to PCs" message in Microsoft's marketing is stupid as well.

I haven't used Windows 8 on a PC either, but most of the complaints I've read about it seem to stem from it breaking all the desktop metaphors that Windows has used since Windows 95. and forcing the use of a tablet computer metaphor on desktop users.


I'm no MS hater, by the way. Win2k ended up a sound product, as did XP. The computer on which I'm typing this would be running Win7, apart from the fact I lost the OEM key, so It was easier to install Linux rather than faff about buying a new key. I'm also quite fond of my 2007 Macbook, which has been a real trooper over the years, despite no longer being supported for goshwow upgrades. I'd like my Samsung Galaxy SII a shiatlot more if the farking micro-usb charger would remain seated in the port. Probably end up with an S5 soon, though... but, I think my favourite phone ever was my Blackberry; QWERTY keyboard > touch screen emulation.

My point? I think "Windows phone" and I remember previous crappy Windows phones (CE-based?) and Zune.

/And the crappy advertising.
//And always let other chumps beta-test MS products before you buy them; they're usually usable by OSR2.


Fair enough, however it's not really fair to form an opinion of a product unless you've tried it.

For me the windows phone interface is really quite intuitive and simple.  Your mileage may vary.
 
2014-05-14 06:56:07 PM
Well that was a mildly insane article.

I mean he is right in the end, the knockoff is cheap shiat and probably unsafe.. but a lot of the things he says are just wanking off.
 
2014-05-14 06:58:15 PM

iron de havilland: I'd like my Samsung Galaxy SII a shiatlot more if the farking micro-usb charger would remain seated in the port.


Get a fine tool, like a pin or needle, and see if you can fish some compressed lint out of your USB port on the phone (preferably, take the battery out if the tool is metal just to ensure nothing gets shorted)

/The WP8 UI is actually quite nice, it's not something that translates well to video or photo demos
//and we all have out preferences, so whatever
 
2014-05-14 07:01:58 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: Fair enough, however it's not really fair to form an opinion of a product unless you've tried it.

For me the windows phone interface is really quite intuitive and simple.  Your mileage may vary.


The onus is on MS to market it in a way that would make doubters like me want to try it. Visually, from the ads, the interface looks terrible - to me, at least. It may be the finest experience since sliced bread, but, given MS's prior record in the portable device market, they've a lot of work to do to make Windows phone a thing.
 
2014-05-14 07:07:14 PM

the_sidewinder: iron de havilland: I'd like my Samsung Galaxy SII a shiatlot more if the farking micro-usb charger would remain seated in the port.

Get a fine tool, like a pin or needle, and see if you can fish some compressed lint out of your USB port on the phone (preferably, take the battery out if the tool is metal just to ensure nothing gets shorted)

Good advice, thanks.

 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-05-14 07:19:01 PM
In normal use, by the way, the control IC is powered by the transformer's feedback winding. But if the control IC isn't running, the transformer won't work, leading to a chicken-and-egg situation. The solution is a startup power path where the control IC gets enough power from the AC input to start up, and then switches to the transformer.

I bought a camera battery that wouldn't charge. I went online and found that totally discharged batteries may need several tries to charge. Indeed, on the third try it worked. There must be a chip inside that sometimes comes up in a funny mode at power on.

I worked for a company that made a chip. Just before tapeout we discovered one of the registers that wasn't cleared on reset would make the chip not work if it initialized with the wrong bit pattern. That got fixed immediately, not put off to the next version.  There were plenty of bugs with workarounds, but that might not have a workaround.
 
2014-05-14 07:27:57 PM

iron de havilland: Representative of the unwashed masses: Fair enough, however it's not really fair to form an opinion of a product unless you've tried it.

For me the windows phone interface is really quite intuitive and simple.  Your mileage may vary.

The onus is on MS to market it in a way that would make doubters like me want to try it. Visually, from the ads, the interface looks terrible - to me, at least. It may be the finest experience since sliced bread, but, given MS's prior record in the portable device market, they've a lot of work to do to make Windows phone a thing.


Actually, the onus is on apple not to push people into MS' arms. So far, iOS7 is set to make Android a lot of money.
 
Displayed 50 of 75 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report