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(Yahoo)   Burma's making a bid to permanently quash the Western stereotype of the peaceful, tolerant Buddhist   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 79
    More: Sad, Buddhists, Burma, Rakhines, Muslims, military regime, speed limits, vengeance, stereotypes  
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5297 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2014 at 3:58 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-14 05:27:16 PM  

ikanreed: johnny_vegas: ikanreed: cgraves67: Or maybe there are bad people of all kinds. Some happen to associate with various religions.

Of course there are.  That argument was for the sake of people like mark12A who actually think they have divine providence protecting morality on just their religion.  I am not making the argument that religion even encourages worse behavior, just that people who vest the idea of morality in religion are shallow shiatbags.

a little light reading

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/religion-morality/

Are you trying to imply that I'm unfamiliar with the history of ethical philosophy?  Or that we didn't develop modern systems of thought until recently?  Or are you reinforcing my position by bringing up that the notion split off during the enlightenment(in academia)?

I don't know what the point of this post is.  Because, while I'm not an expert in all of the history there, without context I consider myself informed on the difference between dentology and consequentialism.  And how they diverged from theology.


hmmm..the quoted piece, though somewhat dry, kind of makes your point.  I guess i am now implying you are a elitist blowhard who knee jerks to a defensive posture.  So, go get screwed jackass.
 
2014-05-14 05:40:59 PM  

ikanreed: Poot beer: mark12A:
Excuse me, what Crimes against humanity are Christians *currently* committing?


Baptism comes to mind.

Ugh.  Don't do this, please.  It makes his smug sneering bigotry validated in his head, since you're comparing massacres to belief.  I know it's sarcastic, but people like this place Christianity above other religions on a tree of morality.

This is not the kind of engagement we need.


Well, when the infidels and heathens insist on ACTING like infidels and heathens, what do you expect?
 
2014-05-14 05:42:14 PM  
I have been a practicing Buddhist for 17 years. Buddhism as a philosophy is a peaceful one, but no religion in the world can discount the conditioned existence its practitioners live in.

And what a conditioned existence Myanmar is. When societies are under threat by one another, they have to be just as aggressive as their enemies or they die out.

The key take away of this story is not that Buddhism is being defamed. It is that life in Burma sucks.
 
2014-05-14 05:45:33 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: mark12A: Excuse me, what Crimes against humanity are Christians *currently* committing?

As opposed to the *daily* outrages Muslims continually commit (like, ahem, Boko Haram)

There are a lot of violent Christian militias in unstable parts of Africa, like the Central African Republic. It's not just Muslims.


Yeah. The Lord's Resistance Army (and their kidnapped child soldiers) would like a word.
 
2014-05-14 05:47:25 PM  

Arkanaut: mark12A: Yep, Muslims are such assholes they even get Buddists to freak out. Which takes some doing. Next Up: Thailand

It's Burma. Fark that Myanmar crap.

Has there actually been Muslim violence in Burma? I didn't know that. That would be surprising, since it's been under an isolationist military dictatorship for most of the 20th century, and one would think the Islamist movement has mostly passed them by.


There have been a lot of stories about sectarian massacres of Muslims lately. So perhaps something going on in the outside world has convinced them that killing Muslims is allowed now. What could that be? Or, it's been going on for a long time and the Burmese official press has decided to publish as a gesture of good will toward some virulently anti-Muslim foreign power.

If mark12A's comment had been sarcastic, it would have been mildly funny, but Christ, what an asshole.
 
2014-05-14 05:50:04 PM  

CreativeFarkHandle: Buddhism was never all that peaceful.  Several Japanese buddhist sects have long martial histories, and there have been several examples of religiously motivated warfare across East and SE Asia with Buddhists being the aggressors.


I'm glad to see people are coming around to realizing the only reason Buddhists were thought to be peaceful is that westerners were ignorant of them. Imagine if all Christians were judged by Fred Rogers and Ned Flanders?
 
2014-05-14 05:52:20 PM  

macadamnut: 90,000 dead Sri Lankans say you're a little late there, subby.


Damn that little chipmunk that aided Merciful Lord Rama!
 
2014-05-14 06:00:39 PM  

kling_klang_bed: hubiestubert: Because the Chinese haven't done for that already?

Buddhist doesn't translate to super peaceful people. There are good Buddhists, there are bad Buddhists, there are angry Buddhists, there are selfish Buddhists. There are militants, there are peaceful, there are lots of flavors of Buddhists out there. And there are a lot of folks who use their faith as an excuse for some damn awful crap, and always have been.

That pretty much sums up any religion or large group in general.


True, and since I started getting interested in Buddhism I've heard about a whole lot of examples -- a priggish moralistic strain of Sri Lankan Buddhism that makes Southern Baptists look like libertines, the huge Thai Buddhist organization that's practically a cult, a dodgy Vajrayana group that's also a little culty, and of course the teachers that sexually abuse their followers.

Just like any other faith, I guess...
 
2014-05-14 06:11:26 PM  
George Carlin understood this.

"Do you believe in God?"
"No"
(boom - dead)

"Do you believe in God?"
"Yes."
"Do you believe in _my_ God?"
"No"
(boom-dead)
 
2014-05-14 06:12:00 PM  
Religion is the crack cocaine of the people
 
2014-05-14 06:39:18 PM  

phaseolus: kling_klang_bed: hubiestubert: Because the Chinese haven't done for that already?

Buddhist doesn't translate to super peaceful people. There are good Buddhists, there are bad Buddhists, there are angry Buddhists, there are selfish Buddhists. There are militants, there are peaceful, there are lots of flavors of Buddhists out there. And there are a lot of folks who use their faith as an excuse for some damn awful crap, and always have been.

That pretty much sums up any religion or large group in general.

True, and since I started getting interested in Buddhism I've heard about a whole lot of examples -- a priggish moralistic strain of Sri Lankan Buddhism that makes Southern Baptists look like libertines, the huge Thai Buddhist organization that's practically a cult, a dodgy Vajrayana group that's also a little culty, and of course the teachers that sexually abuse their followers.

Just like any other faith, I guess...


...and certainly enough hucksters...

/ f*cking Nichiren...
 
2014-05-14 07:03:16 PM  
what ever you do do not mention Rangoon!
 
2014-05-14 07:15:11 PM  

grimlock1972: what ever you do do not mention Rangoon!


reboot.theobr.com
 
2014-05-14 07:45:19 PM  

hubiestubert: phaseolus: kling_klang_bed: hubiestubert: Because the Chinese haven't done for that already?

Buddhist doesn't translate to super peaceful people. There are good Buddhists, there are bad Buddhists, there are angry Buddhists, there are selfish Buddhists. There are militants, there are peaceful, there are lots of flavors of Buddhists out there. And there are a lot of folks who use their faith as an excuse for some damn awful crap, and always have been.

That pretty much sums up any religion or large group in general.

True, and since I started getting interested in Buddhism I've heard about a whole lot of examples -- a priggish moralistic strain of Sri Lankan Buddhism that makes Southern Baptists look like libertines, the huge Thai Buddhist organization that's practically a cult, a dodgy Vajrayana group that's also a little culty, and of course the teachers that sexually abuse their followers.

Just like any other faith, I guess...

...and certainly enough hucksters...

/ f*cking Nichiren...


Ugh, was dragged to one of their meetings once. Knew enough about Buddhism to be turned off.

Get diagnosed with a disease (since beaten) and many friends will try to aquaint you with their religions. Though to be fair, I think some do it because they just want to help and don't know what else to do.
 
2014-05-14 07:59:35 PM  
he goes by the name on his Myanmar ID card: Aung Lay Tun. He risks being beaten and possibly killed if Rakhine extremists discover that he is a Buddhist who converted to Islam.

But we will go ahead and post his name right here because what could possibly go wrong with that.
 
2014-05-14 08:51:31 PM  

BitwiseShift: There once was a man from Nantucket
who's da da die da da da dada
Da Da Da da da.
So da da da da
Dadie di dadidie da

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]


International Internet law requires the free sample link be included with every image posted.

you're welcome.
 
2014-05-14 09:05:37 PM  
The details of my life are inconsequential. Summers in Rangoon...luge lessons
 
2014-05-14 09:20:22 PM  
Nothing new. This has been happening in Burma for decades, if not longer. Coincidentally such oppression does not tend to occur in areas the West cares about. So all you hear about Buddhists is the Chinese oppressing them.
 
2014-05-14 10:06:01 PM  

mark12A: ikanreed: Christians also commit crimes against humanity.  It's almost like morality doesn't even remotely come from religion.

Excuse me, what Crimes against humanity are Christians *currently* committing?

As opposed to the *daily* outrages Muslims continually commit (like, ahem, Boko Haram)

/not interested in listening to whining about the past
//let's fix the present, please.


I guess you haven't heard about the various witchhunts and anti-gay insanity sweeping Africa? Like the new laws in Uganda? The ones that were co-created with the help of western, fundie missionaries?

Yeah, religion is a neat club for most people in reality. But if you aren't a member of the club, they might very well beat you with said club.
 
2014-05-14 10:56:06 PM  
If you be
A Muslim convert
You better flee
Or you gon get hurt

Burma Shave
 
2014-05-15 12:07:27 AM  

johnny_vegas: ikanreed: johnny_vegas: ikanreed: cgraves67: Or maybe there are bad people of all kinds. Some happen to associate with various religions.

Of course there are.  That argument was for the sake of people like mark12A who actually think they have divine providence protecting morality on just their religion.  I am not making the argument that religion even encourages worse behavior, just that people who vest the idea of morality in religion are shallow shiatbags.

a little light reading

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/religion-morality/

Are you trying to imply that I'm unfamiliar with the history of ethical philosophy?  Or that we didn't develop modern systems of thought until recently?  Or are you reinforcing my position by bringing up that the notion split off during the enlightenment(in academia)?

I don't know what the point of this post is.  Because, while I'm not an expert in all of the history there, without context I consider myself informed on the difference between dentology and consequentialism.  And how they diverged from theology.

hmmm..the quoted piece, though somewhat dry, kind of makes your point.  I guess i am now implying you are a elitist blowhard who knee jerks to a defensive posture.  So, go get screwed jackass.


Elitist means considering your opinions moderately informed?   I mean... you link a survey course from Princeton's intro to philosophy article, and go "here's light reading" sarcastically or not, it kind of rids you of the power of elitist condemnation.  I just couldn't tell what you wanted to imply.
 
2014-05-15 01:09:00 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: Myanmar.

Not like it matters... it'll be 4-6 different countries by the end of the decade.


It'll always be Burma to some...

mapsaboutnothing.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-05-15 07:30:02 AM  

phaseolus: kling_klang_bed: hubiestubert: Because the Chinese haven't done for that already?

Buddhist doesn't translate to super peaceful people. There are good Buddhists, there are bad Buddhists, there are angry Buddhists, there are selfish Buddhists. There are militants, there are peaceful, there are lots of flavors of Buddhists out there. And there are a lot of folks who use their faith as an excuse for some damn awful crap, and always have been.

That pretty much sums up any religion or large group in general.

True, and since I started getting interested in Buddhism I've heard about a whole lot of examples -- a priggish moralistic strain of Sri Lankan Buddhism that makes Southern Baptists look like libertines, the huge Thai Buddhist organization that's practically a cult, a dodgy Vajrayana group that's also a little culty, and of course the teachers that sexually abuse their followers.

Just like any other faith, I guess...


True Buddha School! They put the "crazy" in crazy.
 
2014-05-15 01:25:46 PM  
Good for farkers for recognizing that Buddhism and pacifism go together about as well as any other belief system.

I love how people have forgotten that Tibet used to be a brutal theocracy before it was taken over by an even nastier group of people. Also:

www.kuniyoshiproject.com

Noted Buddhist pacifists unsuccessfully invading Japan

/Oddly enough, though most of his army was, especially the officers, and his successors would be,Temujin was not a Buddhist.
 
2014-05-15 04:57:55 PM  
luidprand:

Noted Buddhist pacifists unsuccessfully invading Japan

/Oddly enough, though most of his army was, especially the officers


brunoberry.files.wordpress.com

During the reign of Kublai, the Mongols were still largely Tengrists.  Buddhism eventually took over in the east, and Islam in the west, with pockets of Nestorian Christianity here and there.
 
2014-05-15 06:23:35 PM  

MBooda: luidprand:

Noted Buddhist pacifists unsuccessfully invading Japan

/Oddly enough, though most of his army was, especially the officers

[brunoberry.files.wordpress.com image 500x271]

During the reign of Kublai, the Mongols were still largely Tengrists.  Buddhism eventually took over in the east, and Islam in the west, with pockets of Nestorian Christianity here and there.


The Mongols were very tolerant of other religions (although they sided with Buddhism in the Taoism/Buddhism wars), and most people kept their native faiths. However, even as early as Temujin, Tengrism was on its way out, and Buddhism was on its way in (along with Islam and Xianity). The successors to Temujin, even Ogedai, who was nominally still an animist, were very much pushing Tibetan Buddhism, even bringing over holy men as council and handling their affection for it in the typical Mongol way, by invading the ever-loving shiat out of Tibet. By the time of the Kamikaze, the results of all of the Khans save Genghis had spread Buddhism extensively among the Mongols. The Mongols were primarily Buddhist from then on, although there is a resurgence of Tengrism.

This isn't to say there couldn't be a mix. Like most great religions (the Abrahamic faiths (esp. Catholicism) are pretty much built around this), Buddhism can integrate many local belief systems into itself with a little effort, as long as the core tenets hold. In fact, I, personally, would argue that the difference between a mature world religion and an immature one (or cult) is this sort of flexibility.
 
2014-05-15 06:45:06 PM  
luidprand:In fact, I, personally, would argue that the difference between a mature world religion and an immature one (or cult) is this sort of flexibility.

So the 13th century Mongols, who viewed the religions of the world as "the fingers of a hand", were remarkably spiritually progressive for their time and "mature"...as long as you submitted to them militarily and politically. ;)
 
2014-05-15 07:02:24 PM  

MBooda: luidprand:In fact, I, personally, would argue that the difference between a mature world religion and an immature one (or cult) is this sort of flexibility.

So the 13th century Mongols, who viewed the religions of the world as "the fingers of a hand", were remarkably spiritually progressive for their time and "mature"...as long as you submitted to them militarily and politically. ;)


Yes. Although I was talking about Buddhism, there. You're also confusing political and religious freedoms, which can be quite disparate (the Romans and the Golden Age of Islam had the same policies). In addition, submission politically and militarily is basically the case of every surviving state that exists, or even ones that last longer than a few years. Because that's how things like laws work. Otherwise, you get anarchy, which is its own special brand of soon-to-be-brutal dictatorship hell. Look at the history of China between dynasties, especially the Qing and Mao, or the Eastern Mediterranean and the Middle East before the great empires, when refusing hospitality was the greatest sin because it left someone in the outer darkness. In myth, it's that sin that gets Sodom destroyed, Sinis ripped apart, and Procrustes beheaded.
 
2014-05-15 07:52:20 PM  

luidprand: MBooda: luidprand:In fact, I, personally, would argue that the difference between a mature world religion and an immature one (or cult) is this sort of flexibility.

So the 13th century Mongols, who viewed the religions of the world as "the fingers of a hand", were remarkably spiritually progressive for their time and "mature"...as long as you submitted to them militarily and politically. ;)

Yes. Although I was talking about Buddhism, there. You're also confusing political and religious freedoms, which can be quite disparate (the Romans and the Golden Age of Islam had the same policies). In addition, submission politically and militarily is basically the case of every surviving state that exists, or even ones that last longer than a few years. Because that's how things like laws work. Otherwise, you get anarchy, which is its own special brand of soon-to-be-brutal dictatorship hell. Look at the history of China between dynasties, especially the Qing and Mao, or the Eastern Mediterranean and the Middle East before the great empires, when refusing hospitality was the greatest sin because it left someone in the outer darkness. In myth, it's that sin that gets Sodom destroyed, Sinis ripped apart, and Procrustes beheaded.


If it comes down to a choice between being killed in a purely military coup or other action, or in a religious persecution, or becoming a random casualty in anarchic mayhem...well, I think the distinction would lose its significance.
 
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