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(CIPD)   One in five new employees fail to pass probationary period at new jobs, which is surprising, because basically all you're expected to do for the first three months at a new job is wear some sort of shirt and show up on time   (cipd.co.uk) divider line 105
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1089 clicks; posted to Business » on 14 May 2014 at 2:08 PM (17 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-14 12:50:06 PM
I started a new job in October and my director has 1 on 1 meetings with all his direct reports every other week.  I hadn't had one in three months, so last week I finally forced him to have one so I could tell how I was doing.  He told me not to worry since he liked to focus on his problem children and I was doing a good job, so he didn't feel he had to micromanage me.  Then he laughed and said if I really farked up they could always let me go during the first six months without cause.

I told him my probation was up April 5 and that made him laugh harder.  He's really got his finger on the pulse of HR, my director.
 
2014-05-14 01:03:17 PM
You have a lot of people in the workforce taking jobs they normally wouldn't, in fields that are new to them. This number isn't surprising.
 
2014-05-14 01:15:21 PM

Lsherm: Then he laughed and said if I really farked up they could always let me go during the first six months without cause.


I can't remember ever working in a state where employers weren't at-will employers.  A probationary period here generally means your benefits won't kick in or start accruing until it's over.  You can still get fired or let go whenever an employer damn well pleases.
 
2014-05-14 01:41:07 PM
We shiatcanned a new hire when he came in late at least once per week -- despite weekly warnings -- for his entire 90-day probation, including one glorious six-day stretch of late arrivals ranging from 15 to 90 minutes. His flabbergastedness made me both happy and sad.
 
2014-05-14 01:46:48 PM
We have a 6 month probationary period which is used to get around a contract loophole with external contract workers. They'll know in about 2 weeks if you're going to stick or not.

Once you hit 5 years it's pretty hard to get fired. You have to punch a boss AND be a waste of space.
 
2014-05-14 02:00:06 PM

Solid State Vittles: Lsherm: Then he laughed and said if I really farked up they could always let me go during the first six months without cause.

I can't remember ever working in a state where employers weren't at-will employers.  A probationary period here generally means your benefits won't kick in or start accruing until it's over.  You can still get fired or let go whenever an employer damn well pleases.


It's a university in DC.  While I think they're still at-will, once you pass the probationary period they have a laundry list of things you have to go through before getting fired.  The few immediate cause reasons are: sleeping on the job, misappropriation of funds (the guy whose job I took was selling old servers on eBay), threats of violence, and "gross displays of public nudity."

They can't even fire you for being late without warning you three times, but since I'm exempt there's no "late."  This may be one of the few times that having an overbearing HR department works in my favor.
 
2014-05-14 02:14:46 PM
I've known businesses that use this probationary period to wring all they can out of a worker, then cut them loose rather than increase their pay and/or pay for their benefits.
 
2014-05-14 02:15:32 PM
We expect people to have deployed some code in their first week. Wearing a shirt and showing up on time is optional.
 
2014-05-14 02:16:49 PM
i assumed this was to avoid paying people a real salary or providing benefits
 
2014-05-14 02:22:32 PM
You get what you pay for.
 
2014-05-14 02:22:56 PM
'murican companies love high unemployment.  gives them lots of Fresh Meat to choose from.  they love having alot of choices.  they don't like the employee to have choices, though.
 
2014-05-14 02:24:05 PM

Shakin_Haitian: You get what you pay for.



and 'murican companies want it cheap cheap (so they can steal a little more).   they haven't figured out that if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
 
2014-05-14 02:41:07 PM
At my work it's closer to 4 of 5. Hire people that think their job is facebooking or farking all day (I'm off today so shush). It's pretty painful. Must be all that Colorado weed.
 
2014-05-14 02:42:02 PM

LedLawless: I've known businesses that use this probationary period to wring all they can out of a worker, then cut them loose rather than increase their pay and/or pay for their benefits.



in 'murica???   you have to be kidding.  i don't believe you.
 
2014-05-14 02:44:00 PM

Lsherm: I started a new job in October and my director has 1 on 1 meetings with all his direct reports every other week.  I hadn't had one in three months, so last week I finally forced him to have one so I could tell how I was doing.  He told me not to worry since he liked to focus on his problem children and I was doing a good job, so he didn't feel he had to micromanage me.  Then he laughed and said if I really farked up they could always let me go during the first six months without cause.

I told him my probation was up April 5 and that made him laugh harder.  He's really got his finger on the pulse of HR, my director.


not sure what you are complaining about here?  are you receiving a pay check every pay cycle? do you want your boss peeking over your shoulder every five minutes?  do you need to be told "good job" every week?  Are you seeking attention?  Do you need a pat on the head?

Your boss just told you that you are doing fine and their are worse employees than you.  I guess if you want to have a meeting with him every other week, start to act out like his other problem children.  Also, if you are let go, you can claim to HR that you never had bi-weekly meetings discussing your progress.

Maybe you and your boss are not the best fit. and you need to find a micromanager who will call weekly meetings with you and want daily progress reports.

there are different personalities in the work force, i think you and your bosses are just different.  He wants people that can do their job without much oversight; you seem to want oversight and reaffirmation that you are going a good job.

out of curiosity, did you ask your boss what you can do to improve, do better or advance?
 
2014-05-14 02:45:22 PM

Solid State Vittles: Lsherm: Then he laughed and said if I really farked up they could always let me go during the first six months without cause.

I can't remember ever working in a state where employers weren't at-will employers.  A probationary period here generally means your benefits won't kick in or start accruing until it's over.  You can still get fired or let go whenever an employer damn well pleases.



that is correct.  the good ole' South has few/no laws to protect employees.  your ass is all theirs, so shut up and git' ta' work!!   you in mississippi now, boy!
 
2014-05-14 02:48:17 PM
Sir, I will have you know that I cannot be bought...and I cannot be threatened; but you put the two together and I'm your man.
 
2014-05-14 02:52:18 PM
I knew a few employers who offered better pay and full time benefits to workers that got through probation. So once every 3 months they'd fire everyone on probation and hire more to keep the cheap labor.
 
2014-05-14 02:55:31 PM
what most employees don't know in 'murica is that they are, in effect, always on probation unless they are the owner (or the owner's mice) of the company.

in Freedomville, it's all about the Owner/Wealth.   the employee is just a necessary evil in the owner's eyes.  the employee is just a tool for the owner to make profit with.  the fewer the employees the owner can get away with, the more greenbacks he can pull out of the company.

once the owner finds out he doesn't need the employee, his/her ass is gone.

all the Laws are there to protect the Owner, not the employee.

and they call that 'Democracy'.
 
2014-05-14 02:58:01 PM

insertsnarkyusername: I knew a few employers who offered better pay and full time benefits to workers that got through probation. So once every 3 months they'd fire everyone on probation and hire more to keep the cheap labor.



that's why they love Freedom so much.
 
2014-05-14 02:58:24 PM
The guy who has my job was there 1 year.  In that time he didnt do anything.  Bossman was unable to find a single line of code that he wrote or reviewed.  He did finish his masters, so my guess is that he was working on that instead.  They ended up giving the guy a settlement to leave rather than trying to fire him with cause.
 
2014-05-14 02:58:57 PM
What this shows us Subby, is that there's a surprising number of people who can't show up on time.

Always be on time, kids. That empty suit in middle management may not understand what you do, so he can't tell if you're doing a good job, but he can see you coming in late.
 
2014-05-14 03:00:04 PM
The last job I worked at, I knew I wanted out within the first month.  Stuck around for the rest of the probationary period because I would have had to give back my signing bonus otherwise.
 
2014-05-14 03:02:29 PM

tobcc: The guy who has my job was there 1 year.  In that time he didnt do anything.  Bossman was unable to find a single line of code that he wrote or reviewed.  He did finish his masters, so my guess is that he was working on that instead.  They ended up giving the guy a settlement to leave rather than trying to fire him with cause.



where are the reviews/paper trail over this time period that would have allowed your boss to fire his ass 6 or 9 months ago???  as long as your boss can show that the employee was failing his reviews, then he could fire his ass with a clear conscience and not have to worry about getting sued.

your boss is probably too busy, i guess.  he's probably doing the work of two bosses so the Owner can buy a second 19 year old girlfriend and get his son that hot new porsche he's wanted.

what goes around comes around.
 
2014-05-14 03:04:05 PM

bingethinker: What this shows us Subby, is that there's a surprising number of people who can't show up on time.

Always be on time, kids. That empty suit in middle management may not understand what you do, so he can't tell if you're doing a good job, but he can see you coming in late.


couldnt agree more. I am logged into my pc at least 20 min early every day to make sure I'm ready to go by 8a. Had a meeting with boss on monday and she said that its nice to have an employee who's ready to work at their scheduled time.
 
2014-05-14 03:04:15 PM

tobcc: The guy who has my job was there 1 year.  In that time he didnt do anything.  Bossman was unable to find a single line of code that he wrote or reviewed.  He did finish his masters, so my guess is that he was working on that instead.  They ended up giving the guy a settlement to leave rather than trying to fire him with cause.



in other words, a fish always rots from the head first.
 
2014-05-14 03:06:20 PM

eagles95: bingethinker: What this shows us Subby, is that there's a surprising number of people who can't show up on time.

Always be on time, kids. That empty suit in middle management may not understand what you do, so he can't tell if you're doing a good job, but he can see you coming in late.

couldnt agree more. I am logged into my pc at least 20 min early every day to make sure I'm ready to go by 8a. Had a meeting with boss on monday and she said that its nice to have an employee who's ready to work at their scheduled time.



smart man.  people think they can show up and 805 and then piss around till 820 or 830.   8 o'clock means you should be ready to work at 8 oclock.

20 is a bit of a stretch, unless u wanted to do personal things before 8.  then it makes sense.
 
2014-05-14 03:10:42 PM
I used to tell my good employees that it was ok to come in late sometimes because upper management didn't see them working late when it was needed. But I said don't show me up by getting there 15 minutes late, it just looks like you're late to the suits. Show up 60 or 90 minutes late and carrying papers so it looks like you're coming back from an early meeting.
 
2014-05-14 03:15:05 PM

insertsnarkyusername: I knew a few employers who offered better pay and full time benefits to workers that got through probation. So once every 3 months they'd fire everyone on probation and hire more to keep the cheap labor.


Most states the company is not on the hook for unemployment until day 91.
 
2014-05-14 03:17:04 PM

Lsherm: Solid State Vittles: Lsherm: Then he laughed and said if I really farked up they could always let me go during the first six months without cause.

I can't remember ever working in a state where employers weren't at-will employers.  A probationary period here generally means your benefits won't kick in or start accruing until it's over.  You can still get fired or let go whenever an employer damn well pleases.

It's a university in DC.  While I think they're still at-will, once you pass the probationary period they have a laundry list of things you have to go through before getting fired.  The few immediate cause reasons are: sleeping on the job, misappropriation of funds (the guy whose job I took was selling old servers on eBay), threats of violence, and "gross displays of public nudity."

They can't even fire you for being late without warning you three times, but since I'm exempt there's no "late."  This may be one of the few times that having an overbearing HR department works in my favor.


Yeah, I had that last year... Working for a university as well. They let me go because 'they had some concerns, and, um something was recently brought to their attention, besides, you finished typing before running to the front desk once, and there was that one call you didn't hang up on your kid's babysitter in the middle of her telling you that your daughter was sick. oh, and you sometimes contribute to conversations, but mention something that seems unrelated.'. They couldn't give me a true concrete answer, and they waited until I had about 3 days of my 6 month probationary period. Fark 'em, I've never worked in a place with 6 people in an office, yet you go a day and a half without having any kind of conversation. I would have probably snapped by now and thrown a computer at someone's head.
 
2014-05-14 03:17:17 PM
But surprisingly, personality clashes were also frequently mentioned as a reason employees failed probation

How is that surprising?
 
2014-05-14 03:17:31 PM

Linux_Yes: eagles95: bingethinker: What this shows us Subby, is that there's a surprising number of people who can't show up on time.

Always be on time, kids. That empty suit in middle management may not understand what you do, so he can't tell if you're doing a good job, but he can see you coming in late.

couldnt agree more. I am logged into my pc at least 20 min early every day to make sure I'm ready to go by 8a. Had a meeting with boss on monday and she said that its nice to have an employee who's ready to work at their scheduled time.


smart man.  people think they can show up and 805 and then piss around till 820 or 830.   8 o'clock means you should be ready to work at 8 oclock.

20 is a bit of a stretch, unless u wanted to do personal things before 8.  then it makes sense.


I wake up at 5:00AM so I can be at the gym by 5:30.  Reply to one or two emails from our UK office while I'm sitting on the toilet (delete the "sent from my iphone" template).  Now that there's a paper trail proving I've been working since 5:00 AM.  I can do whatever the hell I want until 9:00, leave at 2:00 because everybody knows how early I started.
 
2014-05-14 03:19:41 PM

Hyjamon: Lsherm: I started a new job in October and my director has 1 on 1 meetings with all his direct reports every other week. I hadn't had one in three months, so last week I finally forced him to have one so I could tell how I was doing. He told me not to worry since he liked to focus on his problem children and I was doing a good job, so he didn't feel he had to micromanage me. Then he laughed and said if I really farked up they could always let me go during the first six months without cause.

I told him my probation was up April 5 and that made him laugh harder. He's really got his finger on the pulse of HR, my director.

not sure what you are complaining about here? are you receiving a pay check every pay cycle? do you want your boss peeking over your shoulder every five minutes? do you need to be told "good job" every week? Are you seeking attention? Do you need a pat on the head?


I read that more as "How come everyone else is going to these meetings? I'm new here so I don't know if I'm farking up," not so much complaining....
 
2014-05-14 03:21:43 PM
WE lose One in three employees at my plant when immigration shows up,
so there.
 
2014-05-14 03:31:42 PM

stevenvictx: WE lose One in three employees at my plant when immigration shows up,
so there.


NEO works at your plant?
 
2014-05-14 03:41:30 PM
That's just because 1 out of 5 millennials act like these guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz0o9clVQu8
 
2014-05-14 03:55:45 PM

serial_crusher: Linux_Yes: eagles95: bingethinker: What this shows us Subby, is that there's a surprising number of people who can't show up on time.

Always be on time, kids. That empty suit in middle management may not understand what you do, so he can't tell if you're doing a good job, but he can see you coming in late.

couldnt agree more. I am logged into my pc at least 20 min early every day to make sure I'm ready to go by 8a. Had a meeting with boss on monday and she said that its nice to have an employee who's ready to work at their scheduled time.


smart man.  people think they can show up and 805 and then piss around till 820 or 830.   8 o'clock means you should be ready to work at 8 oclock.

20 is a bit of a stretch, unless u wanted to do personal things before 8.  then it makes sense.

I wake up at 5:00AM so I can be at the gym by 5:30.  Reply to one or two emails from our UK office while I'm sitting on the toilet (delete the "sent from my iphone" template).  Now that there's a paper trail proving I've been working since 5:00 AM.  I can do whatever the hell I want until 9:00, leave at 2:00 because everybody knows how early I started.



and a boss/IT guy who has even very basic skills can check the IP address the mail was sent from and delete you from the payroll.  comon' you're smarter than that!

Linuxyes was here.
 
2014-05-14 03:57:00 PM
Easier to fire probies than it is to fire full employees, particularly in non-at-will states
 
2014-05-14 03:58:45 PM

stevenvictx: WE lose One in three employees at my plant when immigration shows up,
so there.


cause you're Owner loves him some cheap labor.  hell, he'd hire communist (acc. to CIA.gov) chinese  if he had half the chance. they don't need health insurance and they take very few piss breaks.

Freedom: gotta' love it!
 
2014-05-14 04:02:02 PM
Sounds about right.  Some of our new guys are just freaking dumb.  WTH?

Reality-its taking us 9 months to fire a guy, whom prior teams just kept transferring between groups.  So now he has a nice 3 year employment stint that looks good.  Not knowing better someone else will hire him, and the circle of life continues...
 
2014-05-14 04:04:18 PM

Linux_Yes: serial_crusher: Linux_Yes: eagles95: bingethinker: What this shows us Subby, is that there's a surprising number of people who can't show up on time.

Always be on time, kids. That empty suit in middle management may not understand what you do, so he can't tell if you're doing a good job, but he can see you coming in late.

couldnt agree more. I am logged into my pc at least 20 min early every day to make sure I'm ready to go by 8a. Had a meeting with boss on monday and she said that its nice to have an employee who's ready to work at their scheduled time.


smart man.  people think they can show up and 805 and then piss around till 820 or 830.   8 o'clock means you should be ready to work at 8 oclock.

20 is a bit of a stretch, unless u wanted to do personal things before 8.  then it makes sense.

I wake up at 5:00AM so I can be at the gym by 5:30.  Reply to one or two emails from our UK office while I'm sitting on the toilet (delete the "sent from my iphone" template).  Now that there's a paper trail proving I've been working since 5:00 AM.  I can do whatever the hell I want until 9:00, leave at 2:00 because everybody knows how early I started.


and a boss/IT guy who has even very basic skills can check the IP address the mail was sent from and delete you from the payroll.  comon' you're smarter than that!

Linuxyes was here.


LOL, my boss does not possess these skills.
 
2014-05-14 04:04:22 PM

Mikey1969: Lsherm: Solid State Vittles: Lsherm: Then he laughed and said if I really farked up they could always let me go during the first six months without cause.

I can't remember ever working in a state where employers weren't at-will employers.  A probationary period here generally means your benefits won't kick in or start accruing until it's over.  You can still get fired or let go whenever an employer damn well pleases.

It's a university in DC.  While I think they're still at-will, once you pass the probationary period they have a laundry list of things you have to go through before getting fired.  The few immediate cause reasons are: sleeping on the job, misappropriation of funds (the guy whose job I took was selling old servers on eBay), threats of violence, and "gross displays of public nudity."

They can't even fire you for being late without warning you three times, but since I'm exempt there's no "late."  This may be one of the few times that having an overbearing HR department works in my favor.

Yeah, I had that last year... Working for a university as well. They let me go because 'they had some concerns, and, um something was recently brought to their attention, besides, you finished typing before running to the front desk once, and there was that one call you didn't hang up on your kid's babysitter in the middle of her telling you that your daughter was sick. oh, and you sometimes contribute to conversations, but mention something that seems unrelated.'. They couldn't give me a true concrete answer, and they waited until I had about 3 days of my 6 month probationary period. Fark 'em, I've never worked in a place with 6 people in an office, yet you go a day and a half without having any kind of conversation. I would have probably snapped by now and thrown a computer at someone's head.



sounds like a typical psycho 'murican office to me.  and at a University of all places.  those folks are supposed to be educated.  you haven't lost much.
 
2014-05-14 04:06:05 PM

Linux_Yes: and a boss/IT guy who has even very basic skills can check the IP address the mail was sent from and delete you from the payroll.  comon' you're smarter than that!

Linuxyes was here.


Most bosses don't have such skills in the non tech industry.
 
2014-05-14 04:06:28 PM
I think that if you have to fire someone in the probationary period, it says as much about the hiring manager as it does about the employee - training, supervision, role model, bad judge of character when hiring... If it happens to often the boss's boss should be looking at you.
 
2014-05-14 04:07:41 PM

lilplatinum: But surprisingly, personality clashes were also frequently mentioned as a reason employees failed probation

How is that surprising?



it isn't.  apparently, that writer has lived a somewhat sheltered life.  might have been born in The Club.
 
2014-05-14 04:13:28 PM
This thread makes me extremely grateful that I work at a modern office where no one gives a crap when or where you do your work as long as your work is done.
 
2014-05-14 04:14:50 PM

Linux_Yes: sounds like a typical psycho 'murican office to me.  and at a University of all places.  those folks are supposed to be educated.  you haven't lost much.


I would have been miserable by now. The only thing that sucks in the long run is that I live too far away from the University to take classes now. I was registered and everything. 3 more weeks and I would have scheduled classes based on the assumption that I would have a job. My current job is MUCH more enjoyable.
 
2014-05-14 04:28:31 PM
20% of any group fails, using any measurement.  I don't know why we continue to act surprised about it.
 
2014-05-14 04:28:59 PM
I love being able to come in late. Of course I stay late and work more than 10 hours a day. But I'm a nightowl and at least my work isn't sensitive to the hour.
 
2014-05-14 04:30:27 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: We shiatcanned a new hire when he came in late at least once per week -- despite weekly warnings -- for his entire 90-day probation, including one glorious six-day stretch of late arrivals ranging from 15 to 90 minutes. His flabbergastedness made me both happy and sad.


Wow.

You care if people come in late?  Where do you work, Burger King?
 
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