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(Right Wing Watch)   Can a stopped watch be half right twice a day? Pat Robertson denies young earth creationism   (rightwingwatch.org) divider line 111
    More: Interesting, Pat Robertson, innovations, Lord Jesus Christ  
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5821 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 May 2014 at 5:19 PM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-13 03:27:07 PM  
Well duh, it takes a long time to create blood diamonds.
 
2014-05-13 04:21:16 PM  
He's been hammering on this lately, probably because the Creationism malarkey is harming his bottom line and pushing people out of the Christian flock.  I mean, Christian opposition to gay marriage is probably a way bigger factor, but he can't go on about letting two people love each other regardless of their gender/sex, as it would cause him to lose more money.

If Creationism was drawing in more dough for him, he'd be singing it's praises.

//He's a businessman first, preacher second.
 
2014-05-13 05:23:52 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: Well duh, it takes a long time to create blood diamonds.


How long does it take him to enjoy blue diamonds?
 
2014-05-13 05:24:41 PM  

meat0918: He's been hammering on this lately, probably because the Creationism malarkey is harming his bottom line and pushing people out of the Christian flock.  I mean, Christian opposition to gay marriage is probably a way bigger factor, but he can't go on about letting two people love each other regardless of their gender/sex, as it would cause him to lose more money.

If Creationism was drawing in more dough for him, he'd be singing it's praises.

//He's a businessman first, preacher second.


I'm just waiting for the first mega-church leader to come out with the "Pat Robertson is not a true Christian." bit.  Then we can make some popcorn, put some brews on ice and watch the giant shiatstorm unfold before us.
 
2014-05-13 05:25:02 PM  
Deaf, dumb AND blind, so just like Ann Frank.
 
2014-05-13 05:26:58 PM  

Flappyhead: meat0918: He's been hammering on this lately, probably because the Creationism malarkey is harming his bottom line and pushing people out of the Christian flock.  I mean, Christian opposition to gay marriage is probably a way bigger factor, but he can't go on about letting two people love each other regardless of their gender/sex, as it would cause him to lose more money.

If Creationism was drawing in more dough for him, he'd be singing it's praises.

//He's a businessman first, preacher second.

I'm just waiting for the first mega-church leader to come out with the "Pat Robertson is not a true Christian." bit.  Then we can make some popcorn, put some brews on ice and watch the giant shiatstorm unfold before us.


Ken Ham has already called Pat " misinformed and deceived ", back in February.
 
2014-05-13 05:27:57 PM  
No. No one deserves any pats on the back for acknowledging an actual fact.
 
2014-05-13 05:29:20 PM  

meat0918: Flappyhead: meat0918: He's been hammering on this lately, probably because the Creationism malarkey is harming his bottom line and pushing people out of the Christian flock.  I mean, Christian opposition to gay marriage is probably a way bigger factor, but he can't go on about letting two people love each other regardless of their gender/sex, as it would cause him to lose more money.

If Creationism was drawing in more dough for him, he'd be singing it's praises.

//He's a businessman first, preacher second.

I'm just waiting for the first mega-church leader to come out with the "Pat Robertson is not a true Christian." bit.  Then we can make some popcorn, put some brews on ice and watch the giant shiatstorm unfold before us.

Ken Ham has already called Pat " misinformed and deceived ", back in February.


Wonder who 'misinformed and deceived' Pat?  Who was it?  Who could it possibly be?

s30.postimg.org
 
2014-05-13 05:29:34 PM  

meat0918: Flappyhead: meat0918: He's been hammering on this lately, probably because the Creationism malarkey is harming his bottom line and pushing people out of the Christian flock.  I mean, Christian opposition to gay marriage is probably a way bigger factor, but he can't go on about letting two people love each other regardless of their gender/sex, as it would cause him to lose more money.

If Creationism was drawing in more dough for him, he'd be singing it's praises.

//He's a businessman first, preacher second.

I'm just waiting for the first mega-church leader to come out with the "Pat Robertson is not a true Christian." bit.  Then we can make some popcorn, put some brews on ice and watch the giant shiatstorm unfold before us.

Ken Ham has already called Pat " misinformed and deceived ", back in February.


That's the cauldron calling the kettle black and made of metal.
 
2014-05-13 05:30:30 PM  

PluckYew: Deaf, dumb AND blind, so just like Ann Frank.  Tommy



FTFY.
 
TWX
2014-05-13 05:31:30 PM  

From TFA:

Robertson may have to take this up with his own TV network, which promotes Young Earth Creationist material and publishes articles claiming that opposition to Young Earth Creationism is heretical.


Yep, it's about seeing a potential market that could be profitable and exploiting it.

I expect that we're just seeing one wealthy Mr. Robertson getting tired of maintaining the appearance of drinking his own Kool-aid. He's actively stated that he has no opposition to oral sex within the context of a married couple, he's stated no opposition to medical marijuana, and now he's stating that young-earth creationists are wrong. Sounds to me like he just can't bring himself to maintain the facade anymore and that his true opinions are leaking out. It probably doesn't help that his peers are slowly dying off too, making it harder to get the reinforcement that he'd probably need to publicly hold-fast to those original positions.

I'm just hoping that his followers will also start changing, but I find it unlikely. They'll just chock this up to him getting old or to him trying to appeal to a broader audience, or they'll simple ignore it altogether.
 
2014-05-13 05:38:07 PM  
Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.
 
2014-05-13 05:42:06 PM  
Man, I haven't seen this big a move in fundamentalist acknowledgment of obvious reality since they decided to drop Flat Earthism. What's next? Admitting that Jesus was just, like, this guy, y'know?
 
2014-05-13 05:43:11 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists thinking people to burn.

 
2014-05-13 05:43:50 PM  
"Can a stopped watch be half right twice a day? " not if it is digital
 
2014-05-13 05:44:28 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


Nineteen percent of Protestant pastors polled in the U.S. isn't what I'd call "very few." It's a minority, but it's a sizable (and extremely ill-informed) one.
 
2014-05-13 05:45:38 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


There seem to be enough around to keep trying to push that shiat into public schools and in some cases succeeding (before getting the smackdown).
 
2014-05-13 05:46:26 PM  

TWX: From TFA:
Robertson may have to take this up with his own TV network, which promotes Young Earth Creationist material and publishes articles claiming that opposition to Young Earth Creationism is heretical.

Yep, it's about seeing a potential market that could be profitable and exploiting it.

I expect that we're just seeing one wealthy Mr. Robertson getting tired of maintaining the appearance of drinking his own Kool-aid. He's actively stated that he has no opposition to oral sex within the context of a married couple, he's stated no opposition to medical marijuana, and now he's stating that young-earth creationists are wrong. Sounds to me like he just can't bring himself to maintain the facade anymore and that his true opinions are leaking out. It probably doesn't help that his peers are slowly dying off too, making it harder to get the reinforcement that he'd probably need to publicly hold-fast to those original positions.

I'm just hoping that his followers will also start changing, but I find it unlikely. They'll just chock this up to him getting old or to him trying to appeal to a broader audience, or they'll simple ignore it altogether.


Or he could be reaching new conclusions about life, the universe, and everything. I've known more than a couple hard line fundamentalists who wouldn't vote dem for millions in cash, but in later years started advocating for gay marriage, legalized marijuana, and liberal geopolitical policy. Shocked the hell outta me every time, but it seems to happen. People's world views change. This is good.

They weren't long standing (fundy) tv personalities tho, so not the same attention to detail paid to their every word.

It's funny, Pat Robertson always looked to me like Mr Rogers did - approachable, gentile, probably has some stories about where he was from or his time in the service, a nice retired dude. Then I'd unmute the tv and have to change the channel. Kind of jarring.
 
2014-05-13 05:49:31 PM  
I will be the devil's advocate. (why me lord?) maybe there was this one lonely neuron. and before it gave into the ravages of senior dementia, like all before it, it fired off one cognizant thought, just to, well, say goodbye.
 
2014-05-13 05:51:12 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.



Don't be too sure about that...

img.fark.net
 
2014-05-13 05:51:14 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


If by "convenient strawman" you mean a terrifyingly influential vocal minority who managed to get in to places which matter, such as the House science committee, then sure.
 
2014-05-13 05:51:27 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.



As far as US Christians go you are hopelessly, utterly, wrong.
Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. The prevalence of this creationist view of the origin of humans is essentially unchanged from 30 years ago, when Gallup first asked the question. About a third of Americans believe that humans evolved, but with God's guidance; 15% say humans evolved, but that God had no part in the process.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins . aspx
 
2014-05-13 05:52:12 PM  
And millions of dreams of raptor riding Jesus were crushed that day.  Ah, who am I kidding.  That would imply that millions listen to his dumbass.
 
2014-05-13 05:53:00 PM  
Pat Robertson has been pushing OEC for a long time now. This isn't new. Christians are really good at employing mental gymnastics to ensure Biblical certainty while also appealing to scientific evidence. They don't see any contradictions.
 
2014-05-13 05:54:10 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


but strangely there no young earth Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. that atheists target outrage at. Odd, isn't it?
 
2014-05-13 05:56:09 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


Bullshiat!! Their are many of them. You just are trying to hide the fact that they are another member of the anti-evolution, global warming denier flock of the right.
 
2014-05-13 05:56:29 PM  

Damnhippyfreak: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


Don't be too sure about that...

[img.fark.net image 651x248]


I put limited stock in online polls
 
2014-05-13 05:58:07 PM  

chitownmike: but strangely there no young earth Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. that atheists target outrage at. Odd, isn't it?


Actually, there are. All sorts of them. But none of them try to press any of their stupid beliefs into schools and/or legislation.
 
2014-05-13 06:00:24 PM  

generallyso: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


As far as US Christians go you are hopelessly, utterly, wrong.
Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. The prevalence of this creationist view of the origin of humans is essentially unchanged from 30 years ago, when Gallup first asked the question. About a third of Americans believe that humans evolved, but with God's guidance; 15% say humans evolved, but that God had no part in the process.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins . aspx


You know, I see these polls, and I know plenty of devout Christians, and none of them believe in young earth creationism. I sometimes wonder if the people that agree to take these polls are more likely to have these beliefs.
 
2014-05-13 06:00:42 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


If only that were true. I went to a family reunion in south western Kansas and discovered to my surprise that I was surrounded by them. They were all looking at me like I was a moron. This was over 30 years ago (pre-internet) & it didn't occur to me that evolution was still being contested.

Even my damn turn coat of a brother bailed on me. I'm now the agnostic atheist godparent of his daughter. Yeah, I don't get it either.
 
2014-05-13 06:02:14 PM  

king_nacho: generallyso: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


As far as US Christians go you are hopelessly, utterly, wrong.
Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. The prevalence of this creationist view of the origin of humans is essentially unchanged from 30 years ago, when Gallup first asked the question. About a third of Americans believe that humans evolved, but with God's guidance; 15% say humans evolved, but that God had no part in the process.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins . aspx

You know, I see these polls, and I know plenty of devout Christians, and none of them believe in young earth creationism. I sometimes wonder if the people that agree to take these polls are more likely to have these beliefs.


So do I. Its easy to find the fanatics in any human endeavor: they are the ones screaming into the nearest mic. Whether they be Theists or Atheists: if they are spreading intolerance and hate they are not being productive.
 
2014-05-13 06:02:59 PM  

Ishkur: chitownmike: but strangely there no young earth Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. that atheists target outrage at. Odd, isn't it?

Actually, there are. All sorts of them. But none of them try to press any of their stupid beliefs into schools and/or legislation.


so you can't even finish a sentence before responding?
 
2014-05-13 06:03:19 PM  

king_nacho: Damnhippyfreak: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


Don't be too sure about that...

[img.fark.net image 651x248]

I put limited stock in online polls


How about Pew

www.pewforum.org

or Gallup?

whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-05-13 06:03:36 PM  

Ishkur: chitownmike: but strangely there no young earth Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. that atheists target outrage at. Odd, isn't it?

Actually, there are. All sorts of them. But none of them try to press any of their stupid beliefs into schools and/or legislation.


I suggest you verify this by going to Saudi Arabia and proclaiming that Adam and Eve and Noah are all fictional characters.

Let me know how that works out
 
2014-05-13 06:05:20 PM  

SquiggsIN: he even came out in support of medical marijuana


He's said some stupid and hurtful things in the past, but you do have to give him credit for not just toeing a party line.  Maybe its for money/ratings, I don't know.
 
2014-05-13 06:07:08 PM  

SewerSquirrels: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.

If only that were true. I went to a family reunion in south western Kansas and discovered to my surprise that I was surrounded by them. They were all looking at me like I was a moron. This was over 30 years ago


Unpossible. The magical Sky Daddy only made the earth 26 years ago. Everything older than 26 was planted by the debbil to fool you.

/and everything female and under 26 was also planted by the debbil
 
2014-05-13 06:08:45 PM  

king_nacho: generallyso: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


As far as US Christians go you are hopelessly, utterly, wrong.
Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. The prevalence of this creationist view of the origin of humans is essentially unchanged from 30 years ago, when Gallup first asked the question. About a third of Americans believe that humans evolved, but with God's guidance; 15% say humans evolved, but that God had no part in the process.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins . aspx

You know, I see these polls, and I know plenty of devout Christians, and none of them believe in young earth creationism. I sometimes wonder if the people that agree to take these polls are more likely to have these beliefs.



Maybe. That or the people in your immediate social circle aren't necessarily representative of the US as a whole. I think such beliefs may be 'clumpy' - people with similar beliefs might be closer together, whether geographically or in terms of social connections.
 
2014-05-13 06:09:21 PM  

dforkus: Ishkur: chitownmike: but strangely there no young earth Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. that atheists target outrage at. Odd, isn't it?

Actually, there are. All sorts of them. But none of them try to press any of their stupid beliefs into schools and/or legislation.

I suggest you verify this by going to Saudi Arabia and proclaiming that Adam and Eve and Noah are all fictional characters.

Let me know how that works out


That's Saudi Arabia's problem. Last I checked the Saudis don't get House and Senate seats, and haven't applied for statehood yet. When that happens they'll be our problem.

But in America it's overwhelmingly "fundamentalist" christians who are the ones trying to legislate their religion on the rest of us.
 
2014-05-13 06:10:50 PM  

Damnhippyfreak: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


Don't be too sure about that...

[img.fark.net image 651x248]


60% literally believe in the flood?  What the fark
 
TWX
2014-05-13 06:10:54 PM  

Charlie Crews' Zen Master: Or he could be reaching new conclusions about life, the universe, and everything. I've known more than a couple hard line fundamentalists who wouldn't vote dem for millions in cash, but in later years started advocating for gay marriage, legalized marijuana, and liberal geopolitical policy. Shocked the hell outta me every time, but it seems to happen. People's world views change. This is good.

They weren't long standing (fundy) tv personalities tho, so not the same attention to detail paid to their every word.

It's funny, Pat Robertson always looked to me like Mr Rogers did - approachable, gentile, probably has some stories about where he was from or his time in the service, a nice retired dude. Then I'd unmute the tv and have to change the channel. Kind of jarring.


I certainly wouldn't mind if you're right, but it's been my experience that once people reach adulthood and have self-realization, their politics tend to drift towards the right as they age, not towards the left. This is usually after a period of initial adjustment post-adolescence where their politics start out mirroring their parents' only to change as they come to discover the world. In my case my politics started out moderately-conservative as I was brought up, shifted rather dramatically to the left in my adult-teen years as I stepped out from under my parents' views, and have normalized in the center-left area. I actually live very conservatively, but that doesn't mean that I feel that others should live as conservatively as I do. I do find myself having to confront issues that give me pause though, without adopting an automatic liberal stance. I expect as I age, more and more 'new' things will give me pause where I definitely have to stop and think about them, and I can't rule out that I'll eventually start drawing conclusions opposite of what will be liberal at the time. I admit though, I could be projecting, but I expect most people to slowly drift to the right over time.

It could well be that, like the temperance movement, Robertson's starting to see the ills of positions that he's either directly advocated for or else provided a platform for, but I find it much more likely that he simply didn't care about these issues and never really had much of a true position on them. Remember, his perspective on oral sex came up only in a discussion that confronted it, where he really didn't have a choice but to either agree with the other panelist or to rebuke them. Without stating positions, I expect that factions of his followers or even his lieutenants commingled their positions with his name, and since it was good for business, he did nothing to dispel them or otherwise stop the behavior. After all, it's a lot easier to agree with the straw-man you build when the real man doesn't challenge your positions. As a charismatic leader with an established base, the less that you actually reveal about yourself the better, as you don't want to put your base into conflict with you. They can simply assume that you feel the same as they do about everything and as long as your charisma appeals they'll continue to follow your agenda as you set it out for them. You start showing opinions that they disagree with then they might abandon you.
 
2014-05-13 06:12:31 PM  

LazyMedia: Man, I haven't seen this big a move in fundamentalist acknowledgment of obvious reality since they decided to drop Flat Earthism.


I know....remember that? That was the craziest Friday ever.........
 
2014-05-13 06:12:44 PM  

king_nacho: generallyso: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


As far as US Christians go you are hopelessly, utterly, wrong.
Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. The prevalence of this creationist view of the origin of humans is essentially unchanged from 30 years ago, when Gallup first asked the question. About a third of Americans believe that humans evolved, but with God's guidance; 15% say humans evolved, but that God had no part in the process.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins . aspx

You know, I see these polls, and I know plenty of devout Christians, and none of them believe in young earth creationism. I sometimes wonder if the people that agree to take these polls are more likely to have these beliefs.


See, I've had the exact opposite experience.

I know a few devout Christian evangelicals, and they believe in young earth Creationism.  I have several of them in my neighborhood, and I live in the relatively heathen land of Oregon.  A couple of the kids have said their teachers (private school) have promised them a real sword and shield to defend the faith from evil. (Wish I was joking).

As another anecdote, one devout and otherwise superfundy (asked me to change the radio station once from Black Sabbath because it's satanic) Christian I know had to change churches because they found out he has a real geology degree and the church's pastor and attendees spent a lot of time trying to convince him he was wrong about the age of the earth being in the billions range rather than thousands.

A member of our neighborhood organization board wanted to make sure the school district didn't include evolution in their new science textbooks.

A couple of members of the women's choir my wife was in sent her a Ray Comfort book on why atheists and evolution are wrong.

Everyone has different experiences, mine have not been complimentary of the YEC segment of America.
 
2014-05-13 06:12:44 PM  

chitownmike: so you can't even finish a sentence before responding?


???
 
2014-05-13 06:13:51 PM  

dforkus: I suggest you verify this by going to Saudi Arabia and proclaiming that Adam and Eve and Noah are all fictional characters.


We're not talking about Saudi Arabia, we're talking about here in the United States.
 
2014-05-13 06:15:02 PM  
Not in his case.
 
2014-05-13 06:15:25 PM  
generallyso:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origin s . aspx

Well isn't that just depressing....  Until fairly recently, I'd always considered creationism to be more of an old testament and Islamic thing.
 
2014-05-13 06:16:51 PM  

Flappyhead: meat0918: He's been hammering on this lately, probably because the Creationism malarkey is harming his bottom line and pushing people out of the Christian flock.  I mean, Christian opposition to gay marriage is probably a way bigger factor, but he can't go on about letting two people love each other regardless of their gender/sex, as it would cause him to lose more money.

If Creationism was drawing in more dough for him, he'd be singing it's praises.

//He's a businessman first, preacher second.

I'm just waiting for the first mega-church leader to come out with the "Pat Robertson is not a true Christian." bit.  Then we can make some popcorn, put some brews on ice and watch the giant shiatstorm unfold before us.


We're just waiting for him to die first. Can't give rebuttals when you're dead.
 
2014-05-13 06:20:28 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


According to Gallup 40% of Americans are Young Earth Creationists, though you get different results if you ask people questions about dinosaurs or moving continents without first asking any questions that would remind them of religion.  Those 40% pretty much have to come out of the 73-77% of Americans who are Christian, since only 0.8% of Americans are Muslim and not many of the 1.4% who are Jewish are strict biblical literalists.  Other religions are a drop in the bucket, and if you know of any atheist creationists, I would like to know the details.
 
2014-05-13 06:21:30 PM  

Ishkur: chitownmike: so you can't even finish a sentence before responding?

???


The sentence you responded to regarding the outrage at those other groups. How do you remember to breathe?
 
2014-05-13 06:24:24 PM  
There is a kind of strange humor involved when a religious nut job actually starts to make sense due to old age senility.
 
2014-05-13 06:29:53 PM  

chitownmike: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.

but strangely there no young earth Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. that atheists target outrage at. Odd, isn't it?


You must not know any atheists.  Islamic creationists, particularly that guy in Turkey who is pouring money into creationist propaganda, get roasted in the atheist blogosphere.  YEC Jews are nice enough to keep it to themselves, and don't try to sabotage science education in America, so we don't get as angry at them.  There aren't a lot of Buddhists in the USA, and I have never heard anything to indicate that they are committed to the idea of a young Earth.  Depending on how you do the math, Hindu cosmology posits a much older Earth than the geological record would allow.
 
2014-05-13 06:33:17 PM  
Easy to be cynical and suggest he has commercial motives, but it is quite possible that he is saying what he thinks "To deny the clear record that's there before us makes us looks silly," he said.

This is one argument that resonates with the YECs, because they wonder why their young don't stay in the church

You cannot argue logically with a YEC - they simply don't accept the validity of your argument.

But they do listen when you suggest that part of the reason for losing their kids is that once they are out of the church bubble, they are exposed to many peers who snicker at their ignorance.

When they think it through for themselves they realize they have been misled or lied to, and they start to wonder about the credibility of the rest of their parents' beliefs

This doesn't convert anyone on the spot, but it is the first step in getting a hearing rather than a brick wall of absolute denial - they are prepared to consider the issue of "Why do so many people, including many xians, think our beliefs about YEC are silly?"
 
2014-05-13 06:33:37 PM  

chitownmike: Ishkur: chitownmike: so you can't even finish a sentence before responding?

???

The sentence you responded to regarding the outrage at those other groups. How do you remember to breathe?



Is incomplete sentence structure a pet peeve of yours, perchance?
 
2014-05-13 06:35:39 PM  

chitownmike: The sentence you responded to regarding the outrage at those other groups.


What about it?
 
2014-05-13 06:35:45 PM  

Damnhippyfreak: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


Don't be too sure about that...

[img.fark.net image 651x248]


Interesting that 39% agree with the statement that God created the Universe (including the Earth) in the last 10,000 years, but only 18% agree with the statement that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.  The 60% who believe in the Flood embrace most of the YEC talking points, even if they leave a loophole for the Earth being old.
 
2014-05-13 06:36:01 PM  
Never met a young earth creationist in real life.
 
2014-05-13 06:36:31 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


And not all agnostics are Richard Dawkins. And yet...
 
2014-05-13 06:38:14 PM  

meat0918: He's been hammering on this lately, probably because the Creationism malarkey is harming his bottom line and pushing people out of the Christian flock.  I mean, Christian opposition to gay marriage is probably a way bigger factor, but he can't go on about letting two people love each other regardless of their gender/sex, as it would cause him to lose more money.

If Creationism was drawing in more dough for him, he'd be singing it's praises.

//He's a businessman first, preacher second.


But that makes sense, because God works through market forces. Individual people can't perceive what is good, but the market combines their power and reveals what is good by showing what is profitable. The invisible hand ensures that nothing bad continues for long and only good things, profitable things, remain. So if he si a man of God, he will follow the markets to what is moral and ethical and important.
 
2014-05-13 06:40:35 PM  

meat0918: king_nacho: generallyso: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


As far as US Christians go you are hopelessly, utterly, wrong.
Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. The prevalence of this creationist view of the origin of humans is essentially unchanged from 30 years ago, when Gallup first asked the question. About a third of Americans believe that humans evolved, but with God's guidance; 15% say humans evolved, but that God had no part in the process.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins . aspx

You know, I see these polls, and I know plenty of devout Christians, and none of them believe in young earth creationism. I sometimes wonder if the people that agree to take these polls are more likely to have these beliefs.

See, I've had the exact opposite experience.

I know a few devout Christian evangelicals, and they believe in young earth Creationism.  I have several of them in my neighborhood, and I live in the relatively heathen land of Oregon.  A couple of the kids have said their teachers (private school) have promised them a real sword and shield to defend the faith from evil. (Wish I was joking).

As another anecdote, one devout and otherwise superfundy (asked me to change the radio station once from Black Sabbath because it's satanic) Christian I know had to change churches because they found out he has a real geology degree and the church's pastor and attendees spent a lot of time trying to convince him he was wrong about the age of the earth being in the billions range rather than thousands.

A member of our neighborhood organization board wanted to make sure the school district didn't include evolution in their new science textbooks.

A couple of members of the women's choir my wife was in sent her a Ray Comfort boo ...


If I were you I would move to another state and never look back. Every one of those anecdotes is beyond insanity.
 
2014-05-13 06:43:21 PM  

Prophet of Loss: king_nacho: generallyso: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


As far as US Christians go you are hopelessly, utterly, wrong.
Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. The prevalence of this creationist view of the origin of humans is essentially unchanged from 30 years ago, when Gallup first asked the question. About a third of Americans believe that humans evolved, but with God's guidance; 15% say humans evolved, but that God had no part in the process.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins . aspx

You know, I see these polls, and I know plenty of devout Christians, and none of them believe in young earth creationism. I sometimes wonder if the people that agree to take these polls are more likely to have these beliefs.

So do I. Its easy to find the fanatics in any human endeavor: they are the ones screaming into the nearest mic. Whether they be Theists or Atheists: if they are spreading intolerance and hate they are not being productive.


Really? I suppose you have examples of Atheists spreading intolerance? Let me guess, intolerance of bad ideas and silly beliefs that just don't add up?

I bet you think that's on par with trying to keep people you don't know from being able to marry because of a belief you have.
 
2014-05-13 06:43:35 PM  

flondrix: Damnhippyfreak: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


Don't be too sure about that...

[img.fark.net image 651x248]

Interesting that 39% agree with the statement that God created the Universe (including the Earth) in the last 10,000 years, but only 18% agree with the statement that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.  The 60% who believe in the Flood embrace most of the YEC talking points, even if they leave a loophole for the Earth being old.



It's a bit weird, isn't it, together with differences between polls depending on how the questions are worded. Maybe we can't assume that people have internally consistent beliefs, especially if there hasn't been much chance to explicitly voice or examine said beliefs.
 
2014-05-13 06:45:16 PM  

king_nacho: You know, I see these polls, and I know plenty of devout Christians, and none of them believe in young earth creationism. I sometimes wonder if the people that agree to take these polls are more likely to have these beliefs.


Where do you live, and in what social circles do you circulate?  You may just be away from the worst of the derp.
 
2014-05-13 06:46:35 PM  

cchris_39: Never met a young earth creationist in real life.


You are fortunate.  I have worked with several, and even worked for one.
 
TWX
2014-05-13 06:48:34 PM  

mjjt: Easy to be cynical and suggest he has commercial motives, but it is quite possible that he is saying what he thinks "To deny the clear record that's there before us makes us looks silly," he said.

This is one argument that resonates with the YECs, because they wonder why their young don't stay in the church

You cannot argue logically with a YEC - they simply don't accept the validity of your argument.

But they do listen when you suggest that part of the reason for losing their kids is that once they are out of the church bubble, they are exposed to many peers who snicker at their ignorance.

When they think it through for themselves they realize they have been misled or lied to, and they start to wonder about the credibility of the rest of their parents' beliefs

This doesn't convert anyone on the spot, but it is the first step in getting a hearing rather than a brick wall of absolute denial - they are prepared to consider the issue of "Why do so many people, including many xians, think our beliefs about YEC are silly?"


Yes, but his actions, or inactions depending on what you're looking at, speak quite loudly too. Look at those that he gives a platform to, and those that he outright funds. If he felt that YECs were wrong, then either he wouldn't give them a platform on which to speak or would engage them in issues that have nothing to do with Young Earth. Yet he persists in giving them this platform, and it's because he makes more money in advertising and in church contributions by giving them this platform than he loses in the airtime spent airing something that he personally feels is wrong.

This is one my my main arguments against the current interpretation of Freedom of Speech in our country, it goes too far in defining speech as the money to produce a product, rather than on the act of standing up in front of one's fellows and actually talking to them. It's ironic when protest leaders can be arrested for standing up in front of a group and actually speaking, but that it's perfectly okay to give millions of dollars to pay for television advertising in markets that one has no personal stake in whatsoever.
 
2014-05-13 06:48:55 PM  
To quote Stevie Wonder, "I never saw that coming."

/aisle seat please
 
2014-05-13 06:50:23 PM  

LazyMedia: Man, I haven't seen this big a move in fundamentalist acknowledgment of obvious reality since they decided to drop Flat Earthism. What's next? Admitting that Jesus was just, like, this guy, y'know?


He'll get excommunicated (or equivalent), and someone will posit that he had a stroke or something and that this isn't the "real" Robertson.

The same thing happened with a jesus-already-came-twice type ten or fifteen years ago (the name escapes me, wish I could recall because the discussion made for fascinating reading) - apparently when you're that deep down the fundamentalist crazy rabbit hole even fine distinctions are enough to merit total exile.
 
2014-05-13 06:54:16 PM  

Flappyhead: meat0918: He's been hammering on this lately, probably because the Creationism malarkey is harming his bottom line and pushing people out of the Christian flock.  I mean, Christian opposition to gay marriage is probably a way bigger factor, but he can't go on about letting two people love each other regardless of their gender/sex, as it would cause him to lose more money.

If Creationism was drawing in more dough for him, he'd be singing it's praises.

//He's a businessman first, preacher second.

I'm just waiting for the first mega-church leader to come out with the "Pat Robertson is not a true Christian." bit.  Then we can make some popcorn, put some brews on ice and watch the giant shiatstorm unfold before us.


Got my money on Jack Van Impe to be the one. He has already called out Rick Warren and Joel Osteen on their lack of Christianity...and lost his TBN deal over it
 
2014-05-13 06:55:51 PM  

cchris_39: Never met a young earth creationist in real life.


It is a continuum - it all starts with "I'm no monkey" and ends with "the Earth is ~6006 years old" and "radiocarbon dating is a conspiracy".
 
2014-05-13 07:05:07 PM  

Jument: If I were you I would move to another state and never look back. Every one of those anecdotes is beyond insanity.


The thing is, Oregon is one of the least religious states in America, and I'm in Eugene, not exactly a place known as a hot bed of religious fundamentalism.
 
2014-05-13 07:14:44 PM  

ph0rk: "radiocarbon dating is a conspiracy".


if you ever meet someone who espouses that, ask them if them if they believe we really did drop the A bomb "on those dirty Japs" in Hiroshima.
/can't have the bomb without understanding half-lives
 
2014-05-13 07:16:51 PM  

mr lawson: ph0rk: "radiocarbon dating is a conspiracy".

if you ever meet someone who espouses that, ask them if them if they believe we really did drop the A bomb "on those dirty Japs" in Hiroshima.
/can't have the bomb without understanding half-lives


Their poor science understanding is reasonably well documented. I'm not sure the rank and file YEC folks care.
 
2014-05-13 07:26:50 PM  

ph0rk: I'm not sure the rank and file YEC folks care.


True, but when the results of the concept of half-lives are presented in a manner that they like, it is nothing but joy to watch as they try to reconcile the two. :-)
 
2014-05-13 07:36:53 PM  

SnakeLee: Damnhippyfreak: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


Don't be too sure about that...

[img.fark.net image 651x248]

60% literally believe in the flood?  What the fark


Florida was under water between about 9000 and 15000 years ago. That's why when I order a load of shell rock from the quarry down the road, it has all these cool marine shells in it. Still shiny and all. My grandkids enjoy finding them in the driveway.
My "years ago" might be off some, but AFAIK the local geologists say that is true.

/i'm no geologist
 
2014-05-13 08:05:31 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


I see you are exactly the same as the "atheists" you speak of.
 
2014-05-13 08:05:36 PM  

arkansized: SnakeLee: Damnhippyfreak: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


Don't be too sure about that...

[img.fark.net image 651x248]

60% literally believe in the flood?  What the fark

Florida was under water between about 9000 and 15000 years ago. That's why when I order a load of shell rock from the quarry down the road, it has all these cool marine shells in it. Still shiny and all. My grandkids enjoy finding them in the driveway.
My "years ago" might be off some, but AFAIK the local geologists say that is true.

/i'm no geologist


I also live in Florida and loved finding cool stuff in the shell rock when I was a kid because Florida used to be under water. That has nothing to do with a global flood. Sea levels were higher when the world was warmer and will likely be so again.

My personal belief about the flood narrative is that the flood stories you hear about from various places in the world were localized things and the people that told them didnt venture very far outside their own regions.
 
2014-05-13 08:10:36 PM  

flondrix: cchris_39: Never met a young earth creationist in real life.

You are fortunate.  I have worked with several, and even worked for one.


Same here. Scary how they verbally gang up on you if;

1.) you foolishly let slip that you don't believe in ANY religion.

and

2.) Management/HR turns a blind eye in regards to the work environment.

/ temp job, many years ago
// work in a better place now: my current boss would write up ( or fire) those asshats...
 
2014-05-13 08:12:13 PM  

meat0918: king_nacho: Damnhippyfreak: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


Don't be too sure about that...

[img.fark.net image 651x248]

I put limited stock in online polls

How about Pew

[www.pewforum.org image 415x430]

or Gallup?

[whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com image 623x516]




I am shocked that 15% of mainline evangelicals surveyed were YECs. I wonder how they drew the evangelical/mainline distinction... Missouri Synod Lutherans are not really main liners...
 
2014-05-13 08:12:58 PM  
Er, mainline Protestants....
 
2014-05-13 08:21:49 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


Guess again.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins . aspx
 
2014-05-13 08:22:58 PM  

Igor Jakovsky: My personal belief about the flood narrative is that the flood stories you hear about from various places in the world were localized things and the people that told them didnt venture very far outside their own regions.


Essentially.

When you're a tribe living in a valley and the valley is all you know, if the valley floods then the whole world floods.
 
2014-05-13 08:28:58 PM  

cchris_39: Never met a young earth creationist in real life.


Have you been living in the Antarctica research station your whole life?
 
2014-05-13 08:36:02 PM  
While Pat opposes YEC, I am sure he's not a fan of Darwin. He's most likely a Old Earth creationist.

On the other hand there are Christians who fully accept evolution. They feel that is how God created
 
2014-05-13 08:40:12 PM  
He has a good case. The Earth can't be any younger than he is.
 
2014-05-13 08:50:21 PM  

meat0918: Jument: If I were you I would move to another state and never look back. Every one of those anecdotes is beyond insanity.

The thing is, Oregon is one of the least religious states in America, and I'm in Eugene, not exactly a place known as a hot bed of religious fundamentalism.


It is when you're from Portland.
 
2014-05-13 08:51:19 PM  
Poll questions are weird. It's hard to get comprehensive answers in multiple choice form. For instance, if someone asked me if I thought God created human beings, I'd say yes. If a poll asked me how he created those things, I'd respond I don't know. Evolution seems like the most likely method by a long shot, but I don't actually know. I wasn't there. For all I know, I was created six hours ago with decades of memories, and I'm going to blink out of existence six hours from now. That's the kind of shiat I end up thinking about when people ask me about "creation."

/so I try not to think about it too much
//love each other, forgive each other, help those in need... worrying about how we got here wasn't actually in the list of important things, IIRC
 
2014-05-13 08:51:54 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


Without looking at your profile, I'm guessing you don't live in the south. I run into these nutjobs on a daily basis, and I'm tellin' ya, there's a lot of them.
 
2014-05-13 08:53:23 PM  

TWX: Charlie Crews' Zen Master: Or he could be reaching new conclusions about life, the universe, and everything. I've known more than a couple hard line fundamentalists who wouldn't vote dem for millions in cash, but in later years started advocating for gay marriage, legalized marijuana, and liberal geopolitical policy. Shocked the hell outta me every time, but it seems to happen. People's world views change. This is good.

They weren't long standing (fundy) tv personalities tho, so not the same attention to detail paid to their every word.

It's funny, Pat Robertson always looked to me like Mr Rogers did - approachable, gentile, probably has some stories about where he was from or his time in the service, a nice retired dude. Then I'd unmute the tv and have to change the channel. Kind of jarring.

I certainly wouldn't mind if you're right, but it's been my experience that once people reach adulthood and have self-realization, their politics tend to drift towards the right as they age, not towards the left. This is usually after a period of initial adjustment post-adolescence where their politics start out mirroring their parents' only to change as they come to discover the world. In my case my politics started out moderately-conservative as I was brought up, shifted rather dramatically to the left in my adult-teen years as I stepped out from under my parents' views, and have normalized in the center-left area. I actually live very conservatively, but that doesn't mean that I feel that others should live as conservatively as I do. I do find myself having to confront issues that give me pause though, without adopting an automatic liberal stance. I expect as I age, more and more 'new' things will give me pause where I definitely have to stop and think about them, and I can't rule out that I'll eventually start drawing conclusions opposite of what will be liberal at the time. I admit though, I could be projecting, but I expect most people to slowly drift to the right over time.

It could well be that, like the temperance movement, Robertson's starting to see the ills of positions that he's either directly advocated for or else provided a platform for, but I find it much more likely that he simply didn't care about these issues and never really had much of a true position on them. Remember, his perspective on oral sex came up only in a discussion that confronted it, where he really didn't have a choice but to either agree with the other panelist or to rebuke them. Without stating positions, I expect that factions of his followers or even his lieutenants commingled their positions with his name, and since it was good for business, he did nothing to dispel them or otherwise stop the behavior. After all, it's a lot easier to agree with the straw-man you build when the real man doesn't challenge your positions. As a charismatic leader with an established base, the less that you actually reveal about yourself the better, as you don't want to put your base into conflict with you. They can simply assume that you feel the same as they do about everything and as long as your charisma appeals they'll continue to follow your agenda as you set it out for them. You start showing opinions that they disagree with then they might abandon you.


I appreciate your well put viewpoint. Thank you for sharing.

// gotta run else I'd reply in more detail, but insightful nonetheless.
 
2014-05-13 09:10:47 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


Actually, about 30% of Christians in the U.S. that are y.e.c.'s., so 'very few' is not very accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism 

76% of Americans identify as Christian, with 318 million Americans that means there are about 72 million y.e.c.'s in the U.S., or a million times more than there are virgins waiting for martyrs.

Hopefully, most of those 72 million are children who also believe in Santa Claus.
 
2014-05-13 09:17:49 PM  

mesmer242: Poll questions are weird. It's hard to get comprehensive answers in multiple choice form. For instance, if someone asked me if I thought God created human beings, I'd say yes. If a poll asked me how he created those things, I'd respond I don't know. Evolution seems like the most likely method by a long shot, but I don't actually know. I wasn't there. For all I know, I was created six hours ago with decades of memories, and I'm going to blink out of existence six hours from now. That's the kind of shiat I end up thinking about when people ask me about "creation."

/so I try not to think about it too much
//love each other, forgive each other, help those in need... worrying about how we got here wasn't actually in the list of important things, IIRC


amen. I kept trying to tell my fundie friends that it appeared to me that LOVE was the most important fundamental.
 
2014-05-13 09:29:05 PM  
Sadly, what he said was "Young Earth Creation is a myth... just like the Holocaust".
 
2014-05-13 10:00:37 PM  
46% of Americans are young Earth creationists.

http://www.businessinsider.com/half-of-us-believe-creationism-2012-6
 
2014-05-13 10:02:00 PM  

meat0918: Jument: If I were you I would move to another state and never look back. Every one of those anecdotes is beyond insanity.

The thing is, Oregon is one of the least religious states in America, and I'm in Eugene, not exactly a place known as a hot bed of religious fundamentalism.


Holy crap.  I assumed you were out here in the east; what you describe is common out here in "baja Idaho"...
 
2014-05-13 10:12:25 PM  

Cranky McOldfart: meat0918: Jument: If I were you I would move to another state and never look back. Every one of those anecdotes is beyond insanity.

The thing is, Oregon is one of the least religious states in America, and I'm in Eugene, not exactly a place known as a hot bed of religious fundamentalism.

Holy crap.  I assumed you were out here in the east; what you describe is common out here in "baja Idaho"...


I honestly thing it's more noticeable because of the irreligiousness here.  Like they think we just haven't heard the good word, and all they need to do is be more strident.
 
2014-05-13 10:15:23 PM  

Charlie Crews' Zen Master: meat0918: Jument: If I were you I would move to another state and never look back. Every one of those anecdotes is beyond insanity.

The thing is, Oregon is one of the least religious states in America, and I'm in Eugene, not exactly a place known as a hot bed of religious fundamentalism.

It is when you're from Portland.


Which is funny, because Portland struck me as having more missionaries than Eugene.  I swear parts of town (ok, Burnside) are titty bar, missionary church, adult "video arcade", vegan restaurant, missionary church, titty bar, hipster bar, brewery, missionary church, lesbian vegan titty bar, etc..
 
2014-05-13 11:15:32 PM  

Damnhippyfreak: king_nacho: generallyso: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


As far as US Christians go you are hopelessly, utterly, wrong.
Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. The prevalence of this creationist view of the origin of humans is essentially unchanged from 30 years ago, when Gallup first asked the question. About a third of Americans believe that humans evolved, but with God's guidance; 15% say humans evolved, but that God had no part in the process.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins . aspx

You know, I see these polls, and I know plenty of devout Christians, and none of them believe in young earth creationism. I sometimes wonder if the people that agree to take these polls are more likely to have these beliefs.


Maybe. That or the people in your immediate social circle aren't necessarily representative of the US as a whole. I think such beliefs may be 'clumpy' - people with similar beliefs might be closer together, whether geographically or in terms of social connections.


They certainly are, and maybe it is because Kentucky has a more progressive Christian population than the states farther south or in the midwest. I know we have the museum, but that was more about location on busy interstates than anything else.
 
2014-05-13 11:23:56 PM  

squirrelflavoredyogurt: Prophet of Loss: king_nacho: generallyso: Prophet of Loss: Very few Christians are actually "Young Earth Creationists". They are just a convenient strawman for Atheists to burn.


As far as US Christians go you are hopelessly, utterly, wrong.
Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. The prevalence of this creationist view of the origin of humans is essentially unchanged from 30 years ago, when Gallup first asked the question. About a third of Americans believe that humans evolved, but with God's guidance; 15% say humans evolved, but that God had no part in the process.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins . aspx

You know, I see these polls, and I know plenty of devout Christians, and none of them believe in young earth creationism. I sometimes wonder if the people that agree to take these polls are more likely to have these beliefs.

So do I. Its easy to find the fanatics in any human endeavor: they are the ones screaming into the nearest mic. Whether they be Theists or Atheists: if they are spreading intolerance and hate they are not being productive.

Really? I suppose you have examples of Atheists spreading intolerance? Let me guess, intolerance of bad ideas and silly beliefs that just don't add up?

I bet you think that's on par with trying to keep people you don't know from being able to marry because of a belief you have.


Of course it happens, Atheist leaders have committed genocide in the past because of their beliefs. Intolerance is a personal trait, one that doesn't care which side of the argument you are on.
 
2014-05-13 11:28:32 PM  

flondrix: king_nacho


In Kentucky, surrounded by Catholics, Baptists, Episcopal, and others.

maybe we are just more progressive here, or maybe we are just too polite to talk about this stuff in public as we don't particularly care what others think.
 
2014-05-13 11:53:26 PM  

king_nacho: In Kentucky, surrounded by Catholics, Baptists, Episcopal, and others.

maybe we are just more progressive here, or maybe we are just too polite to talk about this stuff in public as we don't particularly care what others think.


You live in the state that is home to Kenneth Ham's creation museum, and is selling state-issued bonds to pay for the "Ark Park", and you have not encountered any young-Earth creationists?  I think you must be carefully avoiding them.  Certainly enough of them have been elected to your state legislature, or the bond issue would never have gone through.
 
2014-05-14 02:28:31 AM  
"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."
-God

After Lord Jesus' death the disciples went back to their comfort zone and went fishing, this time for fish instead of men as He had commanded.

They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing. But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus. Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No. And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.


Were the fish hiding all on the right side of the boat? Or could it be that the Lord your God can do miracles pertaining to life and creation? Oh ye of little faith, you were not there when God made the world. Jesus' resurrection confirms his genealogy and his genealogy confirms the biblical account of God's creation of the world. Jesus also confirmed the teaching that Noah and Jonah were real people.

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
 
2014-05-14 04:27:47 AM  
Joke all you want but when you have lava flowing out from what used to be your eyeballs for the rest of eternity, I'll the one who will be laughing.
 
2014-05-14 04:52:47 AM  

isntthatamusing: Joke all you want but when you have lava flowing out from what used to be your eyeballs for the rest of eternity, I'll the one who will be laughing.


I'm glad that your version of heaven is some place where you take joy in those less fortunate than you. It's really a rather disturbing mind set.
 
2014-05-14 07:45:19 AM  

isntthatamusing: Joke all you want but when you have lava flowing out from what used to be your eyeballs for the rest of eternity, I'll the one who will be laughing.


not sure laughing at the misery will keep your eyeballs cool
 
2014-05-14 08:07:15 AM  

cchris_39: Never met a young earth creationist in real life.


I've met one - a geneticist phd candidate. Catholic variant too. Was a bizarre experience/conversation that included bungled bible quotes from their end.
Always suspected they were a little intellect deficient and then they spoke out and verified my impression.
 
2014-05-14 09:18:39 AM  

flondrix: king_nacho: In Kentucky, surrounded by Catholics, Baptists, Episcopal, and others.

maybe we are just more progressive here, or maybe we are just too polite to talk about this stuff in public as we don't particularly care what others think.

You live in the state that is home to Kenneth Ham's creation museum, and is selling state-issued bonds to pay for the "Ark Park", and you have not encountered any young-Earth creationists?  I think you must be carefully avoiding them.  Certainly enough of them have been elected to your state legislature, or the bond issue would never have gone through.


The creation museum was placed where it is because of the interstate traffic that flows through Kentucky, they figured they get the most people travelling. As for the Ark Park, those Bonds were issued by the city, not the state, and considered the potential revenue that will be generated, they would have been silly not to.
 
2014-05-14 09:23:10 AM  

isntthatamusing: Joke all you want but when you have lava flowing out from what used to be your eyeballs for the rest of eternity, I'll the one who will be laughing.


careful, if you make fun of the misfortune of others, two she bears may tear you apart.
 
2014-05-14 10:14:16 AM  

LiberalConservative: cchris_39: Never met a young earth creationist in real life.

I've met one - a geneticist phd candidate. Catholic variant too. Was a bizarre experience/conversation that included bungled bible quotes from their end.
Always suspected they were a little intellect deficient and then they spoke out and verified my impression.


If a Catholic is a YEC, it's something they are doing on their own.  The Church does not take that stance.

I also knew a creationist who tried to go for a PhD in genetics, and was shocked that no one wanted to work with her.  I wonder if they are the same person.

/Worse: She ended up teaching science in a high school.
 
2014-05-14 11:38:07 AM  

SquiggsIN: That's not true. There's a giant chasm between most xtians and YEC xtians in the USA.



if 46% of Americans believe "God created humans in their present form some time in the past 10,000 years" then 46%of Americans are young Earth creationists.
 
2014-05-14 12:27:22 PM  

rbuzby: cchris_39: Never met a young earth creationist in real life.

Have you been living in the Antarctica research station your whole life?


If you're lucky enough to live in a decent place, like I do, then it's pretty easy to avoid those sorts. I, too, have never met a YEC in real life. I also have never met a birther or a tea bagger. In fact, the only place I run into any objectionable people like the above, or bigots, etc., is online. It's kind of cool.
 
2014-05-14 12:30:11 PM  

whatshisname: if 46% of Americans believe "God created humans in their present form some time in the past 10,000 years" then 46%of Americans are young Earth creationists.


Strictly speaking, it makes them "young humanity creationists", a term I just made up.  However, I did not make up the term "Old Earth, young life"; apparently that is a thing.  Also, some try to have it both ways with an old Earth, old life forms making up the fossil record just like the paleontologists say, but somehow without actual evolution taking place, and Adam and Eve being introduced deus ex machina at the appropriate time.  I have not met someone who conceded the existence of evolution for everything except humans, but it would not surprise me if they are out there.

The term "creationist" as used by both skeptics and the creationists themselves refers to someone who denies that evolution has happened and is happening.  AIG, ICR, etc. will at times try to keep old Earth creationists inside the "big tent", while at other times publishing tracts about how wrong they are.  While the big money is in YEC, some YECers will recognize OECers as fellow "creationists" when it serves their purposes--so long as they deny evolution.  Once you admit that evolution has taken place, whether divinely guided or not, you are no longer a "creationist" but a "theistic evolutionist".
 
2014-05-14 01:42:51 PM  
Just because a stopped watch is right twice a day doesn't mean you shouldn't get a new one.
 
2014-05-14 10:19:33 PM  

silvervial: rbuzby: cchris_39: Never met a young earth creationist in real life.

Have you been living in the Antarctica research station your whole life?

If you're lucky enough to live in a decent place, like I do, then it's pretty easy to avoid those sorts. I, too, have never met a YEC in real life. I also have never met a birther or a tea bagger. In fact, the only place I run into any objectionable people like the above, or bigots, etc., is online. It's kind of cool.


This is nearly unbelievable, unless you are a very sheltered person who does not meet people or engage in conversations, or are perhaps very young.

I live in a town that is synonymous with "liberal" and I have encountered plenty of YECs.  One of them was a nice lady co worker who gave me a giant dictionary, then told me how science is wrong about how old everything is.

Also, a buddy of mine who I have known for 35 years but lost touch with, recently told me he has started buying guns, because of "this President we have now."

Another co worker gave me "Atlas Shrugged" and told me it was the best treatise on personal responsibility he had ever read.
 
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