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(Joystiq)   Microsoft announced a Kinect-less Xbox One...and apparently forgot to tell the companies currently developing Kinect games   (joystiq.com) divider line 104
    More: Fail, Kinect, Harmonix, Microsoft, Xbox, kinect games  
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3230 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 May 2014 at 6:01 PM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-13 03:59:56 PM
And now the Kinect games will reach a smaller audience.

I'd rather MS drop the price by eating the $100 and making up for it with licenses.
 
2014-05-13 04:06:00 PM
Thought I read somewhere Live Gold subscriptions will be a thing of the past too. If true, will it be the same thing, just without the yearly/monthly price tag?

Haven't had the 360 hooked up online for over a year...
 
2014-05-13 04:14:05 PM

WhiskeySticks: Thought I read somewhere Live Gold subscriptions will be a thing of the past too. If true, will it be the same thing, just without the yearly/monthly price tag?

Haven't had the 360 hooked up online for over a year...


No, they're removing the requirement to use streaming services like Netflix and Hulu. You'll still need it to play online games.
 
2014-05-13 04:14:56 PM
If I wanted to move more than I absolutely have to whilst playing video games I'd be in the gym instead.
 
2014-05-13 04:18:34 PM

scottydoesntknow: WhiskeySticks: Thought I read somewhere Live Gold subscriptions will be a thing of the past too. If true, will it be the same thing, just without the yearly/monthly price tag?

Haven't had the 360 hooked up online for over a year...

No, they're removing the requirement to use streaming services like Netflix and Hulu. You'll still need it to play online games.


So it's like giving you a stiff yank, but stopping before finishing the job.

Jerks.
 
2014-05-13 06:09:00 PM

WhiskeySticks: scottydoesntknow: WhiskeySticks: Thought I read somewhere Live Gold subscriptions will be a thing of the past too. If true, will it be the same thing, just without the yearly/monthly price tag?

Haven't had the 360 hooked up online for over a year...

No, they're removing the requirement to use streaming services like Netflix and Hulu. You'll still need it to play online games.

So it's like giving you a stiff yank, but stopping before finishing the job.

Jerks.


Uh, no, it's like rubbing you to completion then not offering you a kiss.

Streaming games is huge, sure, but the comparison here is 'I can use netflix on my toaster, why the fark do I need to pay 60$ a year for it on this box I just spent 500$ on?'

Or, the PS3 does it free.  All of this seems aimed specifically at matching the PS3. Price and hardware drop, as well as removing Xbox gold from stupid services.  I'm guessing they are also offering free games monthly too?

If the GUI isn't god awful I might consider it when I eventually upgrade to a next-gen console. I ditched the Xbox because 9/10 of the GUI was devoted to advertising. At least the PS3 constrains that to the PS store and a tiny blurb in the status box on the top-right.
 
2014-05-13 06:14:14 PM
I don't blame them for forgetting. Who makes Kinect games? Seriously, who makes them?
 
2014-05-13 06:29:45 PM

Tobin_Lam: I don't blame them for forgetting. Who makes Kinect games? Seriously, who makes them?


People targeting the illusive casual gamer who drops $500 on a game console.

I don't think its a very big deal. All the early adopters were forced to get the camera and anyone who wants kinect can still buy it. It won't hurt kinect game sales, such as they were. 
The problem is Microsoft has to contend as a game system in order to get its trojan media horse into peoples houses, and price became a bigger factor than they anticipated.

I think what they should have done is try to get more 360 users into the one by adding full legacy support for live and media.
Their wooden pony needs to rock a bit more like its PC brethren and less like a "screw em every generation" console.

/They probably aren't paying enough for kinect per-unit for this to be a real savings. Its more to make the appearance of offering a discounted system.
/and if you're the casual gamer who spends big bucks to download games over a subscription service, you don't buy the economy model anyway.
 
2014-05-13 06:32:27 PM
I'd feel sorry for them if they weren't developing Kinect games
 
2014-05-13 06:35:42 PM
Even though the voice commands are much better, I think the motion controls have gotten worse since the 360. The big issue I have is that the wave gesture used to be a good way to tell the console that you want to interact with it. Now, it starts interacting with you when you raise you hand, which gets annoying if you are watching TV and drinking or gesturing to someone. The false positives are just too high compared to before.

I also don't like the select gesture of pushing in on an onscreen object. If you are not facing the Kinect 100% head on and aren't careful with how you push, the hand icon will veer to the side as you push often, so you wind up accidentally hitting the tile to the left or right of the one you wanted to press. The old action of hovering your hand over the tile was slower, but the accuracy made up for it. Now it is faster, but you waste more time going back if you screw up by not pressing as carefully.

Some people will like the new user interactions, but I think there should at least be an option to go back to the old gestures for a few things if you are having issues with the new ones.
 
2014-05-13 06:39:46 PM

Tobin_Lam: I don't blame them for forgetting. Who makes Kinect games? Seriously, who makes them?


Remember Rare?

The company that made:

img4.wikia.nocookie.net
upload.wikimedia.org
img1.wikia.nocookie.net

Yeah, the only games they make nowadays are these games:

compass.xbox.com
 
2014-05-13 06:46:13 PM

RexTalionis: Tobin_Lam: I don't blame them for forgetting. Who makes Kinect games? Seriously, who makes them?

Remember Rare?

The company that made:

[img4.wikia.nocookie.net image 480x329]
[upload.wikimedia.org image 429x300]
[img1.wikia.nocookie.net image 550x395]

Yeah, the only games they make nowadays are these games:

[compass.xbox.com image 319x416]


Wow, that brings back memories. My, how the mighty have fallen.
 
2014-05-13 06:47:04 PM

Tobin_Lam: I don't blame them for forgetting. Who makes Kinect games? Seriously, who makes them?


Harmonix.
 
2014-05-13 07:01:02 PM

RexTalionis: Tobin_Lam: I don't blame them for forgetting. Who makes Kinect games? Seriously, who makes them?

Remember Rare?

The company that made:





Yeah, the only games they make nowadays are these games:


Oh man, memories. I still have my SNES Killer Instinct game. Haven't played it in awhile... I should.

Man that is sad. Your post made me sad.
 
2014-05-13 07:03:13 PM

Tobin_Lam: I don't blame them for forgetting. Who makes Kinect games? Seriously, who makes them?


Companies looking to make every "Worst games of 20XX" list.  Angry Joe said it best, the fact that we expect Kinect games to suck even with new-gen hardware shows just how badly they've messed it up.
 
2014-05-13 07:07:34 PM
It was just Harmonix.  A company so broke they have to go to kickstarter to fund their games.
 
2014-05-13 07:09:38 PM
All Microsoft had to do was ask the average gamer if they would buy an Xbox One with or without Kinect, and they would have saved a lot of money and increased sales from the very beginnings.  Also, didn't they hear about it's moniker as the "all seeing eye?"  Seriously, who hires execs that don't understand basic business practices?
 
2014-05-13 07:12:30 PM
This is fine.  Making a version of the Xbox 360 that didn't have a hard drive?  That was the dumbest idea ever; way to shoefark your developers there, MS.
 
2014-05-13 07:13:58 PM

kroonermanblack: Streaming games is huge, sure, but the comparison here is 'I can use netflix on my toaster, why the fark do I need to pay 60$ a year for it on this box I just spent 500$ on?'


The 60 bucks for XBoxLive gets multi-player gaming, free games, and other capabilities.  Also - in order to actually ... like ... play a game ... you do need shell out another 50 to 100 bucks on top of the 500 bucks you just spent on the box itself.  Most people are aware of that going in.

kroonermanblack: Or, the PS3 does it free.  All of this seems aimed specifically at matching the PS3. Price and hardware drop, as well as removing Xbox gold from stupid services.  I'm guessing they are also offering free games monthly too?


With the PS4 ... Sony now requires a subscription for multi-player gaming.  Just like XBoxLive.  And Sony offers free games and other capabilities as part of the subscription every month as well.

kroonermanblack: If the GUI isn't god awful I might consider it when I eventually upgrade to a next-gen console. I ditched the Xbox because 9/10 of the GUI was devoted to advertising. At least the PS3 constrains that to the PS store and a tiny blurb in the status box on the top-right.


My second biggest complaint about the XboxOne is the user interface.  Its confusing as well.  The first complaint is its a rather sluggish machine.

/disclaimer: i may or may not work for the company that makes the shiny black box with "PS4" written on the outside of it
 
2014-05-13 07:16:32 PM

SeikaArashi: RexTalionis: Tobin_Lam: I don't blame them for forgetting. Who makes Kinect games? Seriously, who makes them?

Remember Rare?

The company that made:

Yeah, the only games they make nowadays are these games:

Oh man, memories. I still have my SNES Killer Instinct game. Haven't played it in awhile... I should.

Man that is sad. Your post made me sad.


They're owned by Microsoft now and Microsoft pretty much ruined them.
 
2014-05-13 07:21:42 PM
So, 2 out of "over 250" developers develop Kinect games that you might have heard of. I went and looked at the list of 360 Kinect games on Wikipedia and recognized only a couple of games of the 129 that required Kinect. I recognized more games that supported it but didn't require it. Also according to Wikipedia, there are 1,119 Xbox 360 games. I don't blame Microsoft for unbundling a device that is utilized in 12% of the 360 games and is required in 8% of them.
9 out of 165(5%) XBone games require the Kinect. Only 14% of the XBone games support the Kinect even though every XBone came with one. It is almost like everybody making games knew the Kinect was eventually going to be optional and decided not to waste any time supporting it.
 
2014-05-13 07:31:07 PM

Tobin_Lam: 9 out of 165(5%) XBone games require the Kinect. Only 14% of the XBone games support the Kinect even though every XBone came with one. It is almost like everybody making games knew the Kinect was eventually going to be optional and decided not to waste any time supporting it.


Like I said above, it is more of a case of most developers making Xbox, PS4, and PC versions of the same game (and sometimes also doing PS3 and Xbox 360 versions as well) and deciding there is really no value in totally redesigning the gameplay to use Kinect in a meaningful way unless Microsoft throws some cash at them to help support it.
 
2014-05-13 07:43:07 PM
Well then make a game that actually makes the Kinect worth it.

Rock Band did it with their hundreds of dollars in peripherals.
 
2014-05-13 07:46:00 PM

RexTalionis: Tobin_Lam: I don't blame them for forgetting. Who makes Kinect games? Seriously, who makes them?

Remember Rare?

The company that made:

[img4.wikia.nocookie.net image 480x329]
[upload.wikimedia.org image 429x300]
[img1.wikia.nocookie.net image 550x395]

Yeah, the only games they make nowadays are these games:

[compass.xbox.com image 319x416]


Man, those old DKC games were so good. I don't understand how anyone liked the new one. The art style was extremely boring (and actually less impressive than the super old SNES versions), the controls were awkward and slippery (not at all like the super smooth SNES controls), and on and on.. It was terrible. And it isn't just a bad memory, I still play the original games sometimes. I find it bizarre that the new version was universally loved, and that so many people seemed to have also been fans of the old version. I just don't get it.
 
2014-05-13 07:47:18 PM

Mad_Radhu: Tobin_Lam: 9 out of 165(5%) XBone games require the Kinect. Only 14% of the XBone games support the Kinect even though every XBone came with one. It is almost like everybody making games knew the Kinect was eventually going to be optional and decided not to waste any time supporting it.

Like I said above, it is more of a case of most developers making Xbox, PS4, and PC versions of the same game (and sometimes also doing PS3 and Xbox 360 versions as well) and deciding there is really no value in totally redesigning the gameplay to use Kinect in a meaningful way unless Microsoft throws some cash at them to help support it.


You never actually said that under your "Mad_Radhu" account in this thread.
 
2014-05-13 07:51:07 PM

gingerjet: With the PS4 ... Sony now requires a subscription for multi-player gaming. Just like XBoxLive. And Sony offers free games and other capabilities as part of the subscription every month as well.


Microsoft has been offering free games on the 360 for about 6 months now (some hits, some misses). And they're going to do the same on the Xbox One. The bad news is they're changing the terms for the Xbox One free games as you'll need to maintain your Gold subscription to have access to them (like the PS+). Free games on 360 are yours to keep even if your subscription lapses.
 
2014-05-13 08:15:47 PM

Tobin_Lam: You never actually said that under your "Mad_Radhu" account in this thread.


Actually, I was thinking of something I posted elsewhere on the same subject. The point still stands that it is hard to really sell debs on an exclusive feature when it just adds more work for them when making multi-platform games. It's like all those special features of the Cell processor on the PS3 that never got used.
 
2014-05-13 08:21:12 PM

Mad_Radhu: Tobin_Lam: You never actually said that under your "Mad_Radhu" account in this thread.

Actually, I was thinking of something I posted elsewhere on the same subject. The point still stands that it is hard to really sell debs on an exclusive feature when it just adds more work for them when making multi-platform games. It's like all those special features of the Cell processor on the PS3 that never got used.


That is a good point.
 
2014-05-13 08:21:22 PM
Sweet!  Three MS hate threads in one day.
 
2014-05-13 08:23:06 PM

RexTalionis: Tobin_Lam: I don't blame them for forgetting. Who makes Kinect games? Seriously, who makes them?

Remember Rare?

The company that made:

[img4.wikia.nocookie.net image 480x329]
[upload.wikimedia.org image 429x300]
[img1.wikia.nocookie.net image 550x395]

Yeah, the only games they make nowadays are these games:

[compass.xbox.com image 319x416]


Hey, you're forgetting the best one (#26 game of all time):

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2014-05-13 08:29:21 PM

Flying Code Monkey: Sweet!  Three MS hate threads in one day.


If they weren't being this stupid, there wouldn't be so much hate.
 
rpm
2014-05-13 08:29:26 PM

scottydoesntknow:
Microsoft has been offering free games on the 360 for about 6 months now (some hits, some misses). And they're going to do the same on the Xbox One. The bad news is they're changing the terms for the Xbox One free games as you'll need to maintain your Gold subscription to have access to them (like the PS+). Free games on 360 are yours to keep even if your subscription lapses.


Almost a year actually (July 2013), which should tell you how memorable the games are.

Is it changing the terms for One when they're just starting with the One?
 
2014-05-13 08:32:19 PM

rpm: Almost a year actually (July 2013), which should tell you how memorable the games are.


Some of them have been fun. But definitely a few forgettable ones. Notably the arcade games. It did introduce me to Crackdown which was a fun game to fark around in. And Hitman: Absolution was a good ride. I enjoy games that I can play purely stealth.

rpm: Is it changing the terms for One when they're just starting with the One?


I was saying in comparison to the free 360 games. Fair point though.
 
2014-05-13 08:37:35 PM

rpm: Almost a year actually (July 2013), which should tell you how memorable the games are.


Some of the games were very memorable.

... when I originally bought them on disc :P

// still downloaded them because now that they're in my account via free with gold ... I don't need the disc anymore.
 
rpm
2014-05-13 08:40:52 PM

lordargent: rpm: Almost a year actually (July 2013), which should tell you how memorable the games are.

Some of the games were very memorable.

... when I originally bought them on disc :P



This. I'm chronically behind on games. I've still finished AC2 well before it was on GwG. And others I've finished because they were on PS+ months before (TR).

I'm finally going to use the Gold card I've had hanging around, Dark Souls is the only one that's tempted me enough. It took almost a year to actually convince me to use a card that's been lying around. That shows a rather pathetic choice of games.
 
2014-05-13 08:47:27 PM

gingerjet: The 60 bucks for XBoxLive gets multi-player gaming, free games, and other capabilities.  Also - in order to actually ... like ... play a game ... you do need shell out another 50 to 100 bucks on top of the 500 bucks you just spent on the box itself.  Most people are aware of that going in.


Did you intentionally miss my point? The Gold scrip was required to watch Netflix. You can, literally, do that free on your toaster. Ok, since we're being pedantic, YOU can't do that on YOUR toaster, I assume.

You can ALSO do that completely free on your ps3/ps4, which is the target opponent of the Xbone.  Which was my point. The PSN+ has been required for games for a while now, but netflix does not require it, and never has.

PSN+ has also offered services and features Xb does not, like free games (which they recently started), cloud upload services (which, again, I believe XB recently started..?).

So, for the paste eating members of the audience, my point was that XB was double dipping in that it required you to have a live gold membership, which, if you were not going to play games online, was a cost of 60$ annually for a service you're already paying someone else for for a feature which can run billions of devices natively without issue.

No one with half a farking brain assumes they will remove the paid requirement to play online games, for a lot of reasons not worth getting into (security, servers, maintenance, etc.), so bringing that into the comparison is a side step at best, and a deliberate mislead at worst.
 
2014-05-13 09:17:27 PM
Called it!

And now I will allow one in my house.

/woo!
 
2014-05-13 09:23:47 PM
kroonermanblack: WhiskeySticks: scottydoesntknow: WhiskeySticks: Thought I read somewhere Live Gold subscriptions will be a thing of the past too. If true, will it be the same thing, just without the yearly/monthly price tag?

Haven't had the 360 hooked up online for over a year...

No, they're removing the requirement to use streaming services like Netflix and Hulu. You'll still need it to play online games.

So it's like giving you a stiff yank, but stopping before finishing the job.

Jerks.

Uh, no, it's like rubbing you to completion then not offering you a kiss.

Streaming games is huge, sure, but the comparison here is 'I can use netflix on my toaster, why the fark do I need to pay 60$ a year for it on this box I just spent 500$ on?'

Or, the PS3 does it free.  All of this seems aimed specifically at matching the PS3. Price and hardware drop, as well as removing Xbox gold from stupid services.  I'm guessing they are also offering free games monthly too?

If the GUI isn't god awful I might consider it when I eventually upgrade to a next-gen console. I ditched the Xbox because 9/10 of the GUI was devoted to advertising. At least the PS3 constrains that to the PS store and a tiny blurb in the status box on the top-right.


not to break your heart or anything, but the PS4 is very inspired by the 360... subscription required for online gaming, and advertisements mixed into your UI in more than one place
 
2014-05-13 09:41:16 PM

Saborlas: And now the Kinect games will reach a smaller audience.

I'd rather MS drop the price by eating the $100 and making up for it with licenses.


have people forgotten that Microsoft took out the Kinect-be-plugged-in requirement before launch? as soon as they did that, people predicted they would eventually take out the kinect in order to drop the price

A) there was never any guarantee they would keep the kinect with the console, especially with the management shakeup and PS4 price undercutting
B) there was never any guarantee users would plug the kinect in
C) the positive user experience people have talked about with regards to the xbone had almost nothing to do with the kinect
D) in the bigger picture, sacrificing a few bells and whistles for a more competitive console is always a wise decision
E) what will sell the xbone are the games at the end of the day
F) users will still be able to buy a kinect 2.0 separately, and the kinect 2.0 will still be better than sony's camera... not to mention the kinect 2.0 is still coming to PC where it will have the most potential... so really nothing changes about the kinect at the end of the day
 
2014-05-13 10:10:02 PM
Seems about as useless as the Power Glove.

/It's so bad!
 
2014-05-13 10:31:29 PM
that's nice

now let me use it as a media player without any transcoding bullshiat.
and let us run homebrew on it

otherwise get lost
 
2014-05-13 10:44:26 PM

way south: People targeting the illusive casual gamer who drops $500 on a game console.


I thought the whole point was it  wasn't just a game console and it did voice command on your teevee or whatever, too
 
2014-05-13 11:26:44 PM

Surool: Flying Code Monkey: Sweet!  Three MS hate threads in one day.

If they weren't being this stupid, there wouldn't be so much hate.


QFT
 
2014-05-14 12:26:14 AM

Mad_Radhu: Even though the voice commands are much better, I think the motion controls have gotten worse since the 360. The big issue I have is that the wave gesture used to be a good way to tell the console that you want to interact with it. Now, it starts interacting with you when you raise you hand, which gets annoying if you are watching TV and drinking or gesturing to someone. The false positives are just too high compared to before.

I also don't like the select gesture of pushing in on an onscreen object. If you are not facing the Kinect 100% head on and aren't careful with how you push, the hand icon will veer to the side as you push often, so you wind up accidentally hitting the tile to the left or right of the one you wanted to press. The old action of hovering your hand over the tile was slower, but the accuracy made up for it. Now it is faster, but you waste more time going back if you screw up by not pressing as carefully.

Some people will like the new user interactions, but I think there should at least be an option to go back to the old gestures for a few things if you are having issues with the new ones.


And allllllll of that can be done so much easier with your controller. The voice and gesture controls are a cute novelty, but as long as there's any failure rate compared to the controller, it's just not worth the hassle.
 
2014-05-14 01:15:32 AM

moothemagiccow: way south: People targeting the illusive casual gamer who drops $500 on a game console.

I thought the whole point was it  wasn't just a game console and it did voice command on your teevee or whatever, too


Yes, but it turned out to be the shiattiest remote control ever invented.  Apparently the only people who ever said anything nice about it were the reviewers who are paid to say nice things about the products they review.  But even some of those had a difficult time, and had to just say that there is a very slim chance that it will suck slightly less after some update that may or may not happen.
 
2014-05-14 06:23:26 AM

Mentalpatient87: Mad_Radhu: Even though the voice commands are much better, I think the motion controls have gotten worse since the 360. The big issue I have is that the wave gesture used to be a good way to tell the console that you want to interact with it. Now, it starts interacting with you when you raise you hand, which gets annoying if you are watching TV and drinking or gesturing to someone. The false positives are just too high compared to before.

I also don't like the select gesture of pushing in on an onscreen object. If you are not facing the Kinect 100% head on and aren't careful with how you push, the hand icon will veer to the side as you push often, so you wind up accidentally hitting the tile to the left or right of the one you wanted to press. The old action of hovering your hand over the tile was slower, but the accuracy made up for it. Now it is faster, but you waste more time going back if you screw up by not pressing as carefully.

Some people will like the new user interactions, but I think there should at least be an option to go back to the old gestures for a few things if you are having issues with the new ones.

And allllllll of that can be done so much easier with your controller. The voice and gesture controls are a cute novelty, but as long as there's any failure rate compared to the controller, it's just not worth the hassle.




Am I the only one who feels like a complete dumbass talking to a gadget, or waving at it? I feel like a moron waving at those automatic paper towel dispensers even when I get it right the first time. I've had an iPhone for forever and I don't think I've ever used Siri even though I thought it was neat, just because, what the fark how weird is it to talk to your phone in a room by yourself?

The Kinect was so bad when I used it. Granted, I used it in a small room, so with your back to the wall it barely acknowledged you, and if anyone had to walk by, it confused the shiat out of the game.
 
2014-05-14 07:03:10 AM

moothemagiccow: way south: People targeting the illusive casual gamer who drops $500 on a game console.

I thought the whole point was it  wasn't just a game console and it did voice command on your teevee or whatever, too


That was the idea.
...But I own one and I'll readily admit that, while the menu integration is good, the voice and hand waving thing needs another pass.
With its potential untapped, they could have achieved as much with the remote they eventually released.

I also don't think there was as much of a market with people looking for a new gateway to TV land. For that they needed to provide alot more content and apps on release.  Instead they eliminated a bunch of them by ignoring backwards compatibility with the old live store.

The original trick was to get the gamers to buy these things and set them up. Forcing the rest of the family to use it as a media portal.  That would have worked if they got the games out (games for kinect or graphics for the players) but so far its stalled in both arenas.

Its as good as the PS4, but that didn't justify the extra money.
 
2014-05-14 07:57:59 AM
Msft should have just dropped the price of the Xbone -- now developers will have to make kinect and non kinect versions of their game meaning they won't do it.

I like using the voice controls to play and pause Netflix. Handier than finding the remote which turns off after being idle.

The motion controls were pretty bad and never really worked. Netflix used it to do film ratings and the selection was so shaky it was a random crap shoot how many stars you gave a film.
 
2014-05-14 08:48:08 AM
this just in - motion controls were a fad, the fad is over, nothing interesting was really ever done with the tech, the tech itself was never what they touted it as, and the world goes on.

Maybe this xmas there will be an xbone under my tree.

now if only sony would admit that their controller is a piece of shiat and always has been since they glued analog sticks to the original awesome PS1 pad, and just ape the Xbox's controller design, we could have something.

because yes, devotees, the dualshock is a shiatty controller, is uncomfortable, causes cramps, is un-ergonomic, and should have been replaced with a MS inspired design two consoles ago.
 
rpm
2014-05-14 08:51:40 AM

frepnog: because yes, devotees, the dualshock is a shiatty controller, is uncomfortable, causes cramps, is un-ergonomic, and should have been replaced with a MS inspired design two consoles ago.


Other than the itty bitty problem there wasn't an MS console to be inspired by two consoles ago? PS2 came out well before XBox.

And when the XBox did come out, the controller was widely panned, deservedly so.
 
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