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(The New York Times)   Minnesota insurer inadvertently speaks the truth about the ACA: "We have to break people away from the choice habit that everyone has"   (nytimes.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious  
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2436 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 May 2014 at 2:17 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-13 04:58:38 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Gaining status as member of an Indian tribe. Members of federally recognized Indian tribes can sign up for or change plans once per month throughout the year.


Damn Indians get everything. What if I lost a shiatload at the Hard Rock casino, will they accept me into their tribe? I lost enough to buy them a shiatload of firewater.
 
2014-05-13 05:02:49 PM  

Mugato: Lando Lincoln: Gaining status as member of an Indian tribe. Members of federally recognized Indian tribes can sign up for or change plans once per month throughout the year.

Damn Indians get everything. What if I lost a shiatload at the Hard Rock casino, will they accept me into their tribe? I lost enough to buy them a shiatload of firewater.


Those lucky Indian tribes. Their whole history on this continent is one of privilege and exploitation of the white man!
 
2014-05-13 05:03:40 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: Mugato: Lando Lincoln: Gaining status as member of an Indian tribe. Members of federally recognized Indian tribes can sign up for or change plans once per month throughout the year.

Damn Indians get everything. What if I lost a shiatload at the Hard Rock casino, will they accept me into their tribe? I lost enough to buy them a shiatload of firewater.

Those lucky Indian tribes. Their whole history on this continent is one of privilege and exploitation of the white man!


Preach it, brother.
 
2014-05-13 05:08:48 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: Mugato: Lando Lincoln: Gaining status as member of an Indian tribe. Members of federally recognized Indian tribes can sign up for or change plans once per month throughout the year.

Damn Indians get everything. What if I lost a shiatload at the Hard Rock casino, will they accept me into their tribe? I lost enough to buy them a shiatload of firewater.

Those lucky Indian tribes. Their whole history on this continent is one of privilege and exploitation of the white man!


The height of luck? Having a football team named after their kind.
 
2014-05-13 05:10:10 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: karnal: mrshowrules: karnal: "Obamacare cancels the policy you wanted to keep and tells you what policy to buy."

How American!
How Democratic!

You can tell someone has no argument when he is forced to offer a false argument.

Buying insurance under the ACA is not how insurance typically works.....You can always cancel your coverage, but you can't always buy it.  Try buying it after the deadline and:
[cgoldmarketing.com image 225x151]

You think enrollment periods are new? How droll.


maybe the ACA has allowed him to remain on his mom's plan so he isn't aware of the intricacies involved in purchasing insurance.
 
2014-05-13 05:26:34 PM  
All this serious debate about the merits of the ACA is clouding the more significant point of the article...

FTFA: Dr. Monica Wehby, a pediatric neurosurgeon, is using the potential reaction to narrower networks as momentum for her campaign for Senate in Oregon. A Republican promising to repeal the Affordable Care Act, her slogan is "Keep your doctor. Change your senator."

So, I guess her platform is "Keep your doctor, until I repeal the ACA".
 
2014-05-13 05:33:26 PM  

geek_mars: So, I guess her platform is "Keep your doctor, until I repeal the ACA".


Well you know what they say, 41st time's a charm.
 
2014-05-13 05:36:00 PM  
LOL people respond to Lucky LaRue. Hilarious.
 
2014-05-13 05:37:33 PM  

USA Prime Credit Peggy: LOL people respond to Lucky LaRue. Hilarious.


As always, your observations are priceless contributions to the conversation.  Well done.
 
2014-05-13 05:38:05 PM  

menschenfresser: Crotchrocket Slim:
Sounds more like an argument to go full single payer and cut out the profit-driven insurance companies who don't give a fark if suffer so long as they can make money off you. That you have these networks to deal with is a result of a bunch of cronyism between insurance companies and hospital/clinical organizations; if it weren't for that the money paid out by any insurance company or Uncle Sam would spend just as well.

Amen to that. These insurance leeches shouldn't even be in the picture, much less adding their profit margins to our healthcare costs. Just eliminate the rent-seeking middlemen leeches and health costs instantly drop by what, 25%? More, maybe?

All this useless arguing over "plans," "networks" and stuff is utterly unnecessary - just eliminate insurance and make sure all citizens have access to healthcare, period. Cripes, it's like we're a century behind the developed countries.


Every time I try to get my head around the American health system, the one thing that screws me up is the networks. I mean, I understand what they are, but that setup is just so alien to me. If I need to go to the hospital, I go. Whichever one I want. Letting your healthcare system be run on a for profit basis is just foolish.
 
2014-05-13 05:41:15 PM  

menschenfresser: Crotchrocket Slim:
Sounds more like an argument to go full single payer and cut out the profit-driven insurance companies who don't give a fark if suffer so long as they can make money off you. That you have these networks to deal with is a result of a bunch of cronyism between insurance companies and hospital/clinical organizations; if it weren't for that the money paid out by any insurance company or Uncle Sam would spend just as well.

Amen to that. These insurance leeches shouldn't even be in the picture, much less adding their profit margins to our healthcare costs. Just eliminate the rent-seeking middlemen leeches and health costs instantly drop by what, 25%? More, maybe?

All this useless arguing over "plans," "networks" and stuff is utterly unnecessary - just eliminate insurance and make sure all citizens have access to healthcare, period. Cripes, it's like we're a century behind the developed countries.


What do you have against profit?
 
2014-05-13 05:46:46 PM  

Lucky LaRue: USA Prime Credit Peggy: LOL people respond to Lucky LaRue. Hilarious.

As always, your observations are priceless contributions to the conversation.  Well done.


Hey weren't you supposed to be responding to my post and adding something to the thread other than snark and regurgitated talking points, troll?
 
2014-05-13 05:49:12 PM  

Crotchrocket Slim: Lucky LaRue: USA Prime Credit Peggy: LOL people respond to Lucky LaRue. Hilarious.

As always, your observations are priceless contributions to the conversation.  Well done.

Hey weren't you supposed to be responding to my post and adding something to the thread other than snark and regurgitated talking points, troll?


What?  Why would I engage you?  You've pretty much demonstrated that you are only interested in being an internet tough guy with nothing of value to add to the conversation.
 
2014-05-13 05:53:25 PM  

Lucky LaRue: Crotchrocket Slim: Lucky LaRue: USA Prime Credit Peggy: LOL people respond to Lucky LaRue. Hilarious.

As always, your observations are priceless contributions to the conversation.  Well done.

Hey weren't you supposed to be responding to my post and adding something to the thread other than snark and regurgitated talking points, troll?

What?  Why would I engage you?  You've pretty much demonstrated that you are only interested in being an internet tough guy with nothing of value to add to the conversation.


Except I have and you're too clownshoes to actually respond to a serious point after you whined I wasn't bringing anything to the convo.

Now, why should Fark respond to you when you post tripe like this?

Lucky LaRue: menschenfresser: Crotchrocket Slim:
Sounds more like an argument to go full single payer and cut out the profit-driven insurance companies who don't give a fark if suffer so long as they can make money off you. That you have these networks to deal with is a result of a bunch of cronyism between insurance companies and hospital/clinical organizations; if it weren't for that the money paid out by any insurance company or Uncle Sam would spend just as well.

Amen to that. These insurance leeches shouldn't even be in the picture, much less adding their profit margins to our healthcare costs. Just eliminate the rent-seeking middlemen leeches and health costs instantly drop by what, 25%? More, maybe?

All this useless arguing over "plans," "networks" and stuff is utterly unnecessary - just eliminate insurance and make sure all citizens have access to healthcare, period. Cripes, it's like we're a century behind the developed countries.

What do you have against profit?


Lucky LaRue: USA Prime Credit Peggy: LOL people respond to Lucky LaRue. Hilarious.

As always, your observations are priceless contributions to the conversation.  Well done.


Lucky LaRue: Mugato: Lucky LaRue: With all the possible solutions available, the Democrats choose the one that steals money out of the pockets of the middle class, but I'm the asshole.. Liberals love to bemoan the death of the middle class, but they and their redistribution of wealth taxation plans are to blame for it.

This isn't the plan Obama wanted. He had to compromise with the obsructionist congress.

Oh, I see.  Despite the fact that it was passed when the Democrats held the House, Senate, and White House, the Republican's are responsible for ACA.

I don't think there has ever been a time when one party controlled so much of the process of governing yet blamed the other party for it's failure to govern.


Uh huh you are serious poster, yup.

At least I didn't post the dismissive.JenniferLawrence.gif
 
2014-05-13 05:55:35 PM  

Lucky LaRue: USA Prime Credit Peggy: LOL people respond to Lucky LaRue. Hilarious.

As always, your observations are priceless contributions to the conversation.  Well done.


I'm oh so very very pregnant. Extremely bad trolling form to just respond to every single post that mentions your name - it makes it way too obvious that you're only posting to get people to reply to you.
 
2014-05-13 06:22:54 PM  

karnal: mrshowrules: karnal: "Obamacare cancels the policy you wanted to keep and tells you what policy to buy."

How American!
How Democratic!

You can tell someone has no argument when he is forced to offer a false argument.

Buying insurance under the ACA is not how insurance typically works.....You can always cancel your coverage, but you can't always buy it.  Try buying it after the deadline and:
[cgoldmarketing.com image 225x151]


You should try and have Obamacare repealed because of reasons.
 
2014-05-13 06:29:27 PM  

Mithiwithi: Lucky LaRue: USA Prime Credit Peggy: LOL people respond to Lucky LaRue. Hilarious.

As always, your observations are priceless contributions to the conversation.  Well done.

I'm oh so very very pregnant. Extremely bad trolling form to just respond to every single post that mentions your name - it makes it way too obvious that you're only posting to get people to reply to you.


I noticed that, too.  That's pretty farking pathetic when someone's sole source of attention for the day is being an assclown on FARK.

/Congratulations on your pending child
//I know it's a fark filter
 
2014-05-13 06:42:44 PM  

Crotchrocket Slim: wildcardjack: If you want affordable healthcare you'll need to get over the society of hypochondria and close about half the teaching hospitals, or at least make sure the foreigners who come here to learn medicine GO HOME AND PRACTICE THERE. We have to reduce demand, and we have to curtail supply. There's just too damned much "healthcare" going on in this country and it's not healthy.

You realize that teaching hospitals are where most doctors gain experience to better treat patients? And if nothing else there would be many areas underserved by not having a medical facility close enough to them to save their lives before they die (in the case of medical emergency).

How is preventative care a bad thing anyway? Why don't you get a bit more specific about what isn't "necessary" healthcare? I need a good laugh.


As I said, we need fewer health care professionals. They have to muster up enough business to support themselves and the parasite class of admins and QA people. So it's okay to shut down a few hospitals after we get over the hypochondria endemic in our society.

14 years ago my then-wife went in for orthopedic surgery on her knee to remove damaged cartilage. The procedure cost $15k in bills, most of which got taken care of by my insurance. Today that surgery wouldn't be done, instead she'd go straight to physical therapy and skip about $13k of that expense.

Recently another hypochondriac I know slipped on ice and racked up $20k in medical bills for a bruised ass. The totality of the medical treatment that day should have been "go home and sleep until the ice melts" which isn't ridiculous in Texas. She got an MRI after she fell on her ass! To be fair, she's also a Tea Partier on gov't disability with a chronic disease that would prevent her from getting insurance without the ACA.

From other traces, we have seen the normal range of blood pressure lowered to sell more drugs. Statin drugs might be wonderful for high risk individuals, but for the lowest prescribed range it would take 50 men for 5 years to avoid one heart attack. And the scripts for vicodin and oxycontin that doctors reach for every day instead of actually fixing problems.

And MRSA. Better off having surgery in a remote field than an OR today.
 
2014-05-13 06:50:00 PM  
If you're in the exchange it's a pretty safe bet that you wil end up with second rate care. But, if it's better than what you had who cares.
 
2014-05-13 07:05:25 PM  

born_yesterday: Mithiwithi: Lucky LaRue: USA Prime Credit Peggy: LOL people respond to Lucky LaRue. Hilarious.

As always, your observations are priceless contributions to the conversation.  Well done.

I'm oh so very very pregnant. Extremely bad trolling form to just respond to every single post that mentions your name - it makes it way too obvious that you're only posting to get people to reply to you.

I noticed that, too.  That's pretty farking pathetic when someone's sole source of attention for the day is being an assclown on FARK.

/Congratulations on your pending child
//I know it's a fark filter



cs418427.vk.me
 
2014-05-13 07:07:08 PM  

Lucky LaRue: ACA isn't about choice - it's about bringing everyone down to the lowest denominator so that poor and lazy people aren't offended by people who work hard to get ahead in life.


There's nothing I love more than people Farking at 2:30 on a Tuesday claiming they work hard.
 
2014-05-13 07:09:01 PM  
Ah, it keeps expanding its awesomeness.
 
2014-05-13 07:09:47 PM  

wildcardjack: Crotchrocket Slim: wildcardjack: If you want affordable healthcare you'll need to get over the society of hypochondria and close about half the teaching hospitals, or at least make sure the foreigners who come here to learn medicine GO HOME AND PRACTICE THERE. We have to reduce demand, and we have to curtail supply. There's just too damned much "healthcare" going on in this country and it's not healthy.

You realize that teaching hospitals are where most doctors gain experience to better treat patients? And if nothing else there would be many areas underserved by not having a medical facility close enough to them to save their lives before they die (in the case of medical emergency).

How is preventative care a bad thing anyway? Why don't you get a bit more specific about what isn't "necessary" healthcare? I need a good laugh.

As I said, we need fewer health care professionals. They have to muster up enough business to support themselves and the parasite class of admins and QA people. So it's okay to shut down a few hospitals after we get over the hypochondria endemic in our society.

14 years ago my then-wife went in for orthopedic surgery on her knee to remove damaged cartilage. The procedure cost $15k in bills, most of which got taken care of by my insurance. Today that surgery wouldn't be done, instead she'd go straight to physical therapy and skip about $13k of that expense.

Recently another hypochondriac I know slipped on ice and racked up $20k in medical bills for a bruised ass. The totality of the medical treatment that day should have been "go home and sleep until the ice melts" which isn't ridiculous in Texas. She got an MRI after she fell on her ass! To be fair, she's also a Tea Partier on gov't disability with a chronic disease that would prevent her from getting insurance without the ACA.

From other traces, we have seen the normal range of blood pressure lowered to sell more drugs. Statin drugs might be wonderful for high risk individuals, but for th ...


Citation needed for all of these baseless assertions. "As you said before" isn't proof or an argument. What evidence do you have that people are hypochondriacs besides evidenceless "gut feeling"? I don't care that you or your wife suck at taking care of yourselves or had an incompetent physician...
 
2014-05-13 07:11:34 PM  

cchris_39: If you're in the exchange it's a pretty safe bet that you wil end up with second rate care.


Oh, bullshiat!  There are a large range of plans that you are presented with when you shop the exchange.  It comes down to what coverage you can afford just as it always has.  Fortunately, the shiat plans that cover next to nothing are illegal and taken out of the mix so people aren't getting ripped off as they were before.
 
2014-05-13 07:14:54 PM  

vrax: Fortunately, the shiat plans that cover next to nothing are illegal and taken out of the mix so people aren't getting ripped off as they were before.


Yeah but when your network isn't taking new patients for several months and you can't drop it and pick it up any time you want because of deadlines and you can't simply drop it without getting fined then you're still getting ripped off.
 
2014-05-13 07:17:47 PM  

Mugato: vrax: Fortunately, the shiat plans that cover next to nothing are illegal and taken out of the mix so people aren't getting ripped off as they were before.

Yeah but when your network isn't taking new patients for several months and you can't drop it and pick it up any time you want because of deadlines and you can't simply drop it without getting fined then you're still getting ripped off.


Yeah, the "not accepting new patients" problem has existed for a LONG time before ACA though.  It's a shiat problem.
 
2014-05-13 07:22:15 PM  

vrax: Mugato: vrax: Fortunately, the shiat plans that cover next to nothing are illegal and taken out of the mix so people aren't getting ripped off as they were before.

Yeah but when your network isn't taking new patients for several months and you can't drop it and pick it up any time you want because of deadlines and you can't simply drop it without getting fined then you're still getting ripped off.

Yeah, the "not accepting new patients" problem has existed for a LONG time before ACA though.  It's a shiat problem.



Then they need to get rid of the referral system where you have to get a referral from your PHCP before you can go anywhere else. If the system can't handle the volume then they need to make changes.
 
2014-05-13 07:32:56 PM  
In some parts of the world people become doctors because they're good at it and they want to help people get healthy.  Not because of the enriching profit margin.

Imagine that
 
2014-05-13 07:33:35 PM  

Mike_1962: menschenfresser: Crotchrocket Slim:
Sounds more like an argument to go full single payer and cut out the profit-driven insurance companies who don't give a fark if suffer so long as they can make money off you. That you have these networks to deal with is a result of a bunch of cronyism between insurance companies and hospital/clinical organizations; if it weren't for that the money paid out by any insurance company or Uncle Sam would spend just as well.

Amen to that. These insurance leeches shouldn't even be in the picture, much less adding their profit margins to our healthcare costs. Just eliminate the rent-seeking middlemen leeches and health costs instantly drop by what, 25%? More, maybe?

All this useless arguing over "plans," "networks" and stuff is utterly unnecessary - just eliminate insurance and make sure all citizens have access to healthcare, period. Cripes, it's like we're a century behind the developed countries.

Every time I try to get my head around the American health system, the one thing that screws me up is the networks. I mean, I understand what they are, but that setup is just so alien to me. If I need to go to the hospital, I go. Whichever one I want. Letting your healthcare system be run on a for profit basis is just foolish.


For-profit healthcare is so foolish, and it's the elephant in the room as far as healthcare costs, considering the for-profit insurance companies are tacking on whatever percent to everyone's healthcare costs, just to keep as profit for themselves as some sort of reward for acting as the unnecessary middleman.

It's not only foolish, though. If one were to invoke morality, I'd argue that for-profit healthcare is downright immoral. I mean, think about it: charging people money when they're sick or dying, for one's own personal gain? To my mind, making money off people who have no choice but to use your service in order to avoid sickness or even death, is just wrong in every sense of that word. Don't want to die? Better have that charge card ready, then! But as always, profit rules everything in this parody of capitalism called the USA. It's sickening.
 
2014-05-13 07:45:48 PM  

menschenfresser: Mike_1962: menschenfresser: Crotchrocket Slim:
Sounds more like an argument to go full single payer and cut out the profit-driven insurance companies who don't give a fark if suffer so long as they can make money off you. That you have these networks to deal with is a result of a bunch of cronyism between insurance companies and hospital/clinical organizations; if it weren't for that the money paid out by any insurance company or Uncle Sam would spend just as well.

Amen to that. These insurance leeches shouldn't even be in the picture, much less adding their profit margins to our healthcare costs. Just eliminate the rent-seeking middlemen leeches and health costs instantly drop by what, 25%? More, maybe?

All this useless arguing over "plans," "networks" and stuff is utterly unnecessary - just eliminate insurance and make sure all citizens have access to healthcare, period. Cripes, it's like we're a century behind the developed countries.

Every time I try to get my head around the American health system, the one thing that screws me up is the networks. I mean, I understand what they are, but that setup is just so alien to me. If I need to go to the hospital, I go. Whichever one I want. Letting your healthcare system be run on a for profit basis is just foolish.

For-profit healthcare is so foolish, and it's the elephant in the room as far as healthcare costs, considering the for-profit insurance companies are tacking on whatever percent to everyone's healthcare costs, just to keep as profit for themselves as some sort of reward for acting as the unnecessary middleman.

It's not only foolish, though. If one were to invoke morality, I'd argue that for-profit healthcare is downright immoral. I mean, think about it: charging people money when they're sick or dying, for one's own personal gain? To my mind, making money off people who have no choice but to use your service in order to avoid sickness or even death, is just wrong in every sense of that word. Don't want to ...


For-profit health care insurance is stupid to be sure.  There is place for free market health care so long as you eliminate private insurance.
 
2014-05-13 07:47:49 PM  

Reverend Monkeypants: In some parts of the world people become doctors because they're good at it and they want to help people get healthy.  Not because of the enriching profit margin.

Imagine that


US doctors make about 30% more than Canadian doctors.   I think many US doctors would gladly take a 30% pay cut if they could avoid paying 10 times higher malpractice insurance while also being able to decide a patients treatment without negotiating with an insurance company
 
2014-05-13 07:52:59 PM  

Lucky LaRue: ACA isn't about choice - it's about bringing everyone down to the lowest denominator so that poor and lazy people aren't offended by people who work hard to get ahead in life.


Mmm, that's some high-grade cynical bullshiat, there. Tasty. Gonna put it on my flower bed and grow me some willful ignorance!

/hoe down
 
2014-05-13 07:54:22 PM  

MattStafford: And to follow up on my previous point, I think a lot of the anger directed at the ACA is because it was presented as some sort of magic solution where no one would suffer.  Somehow we would get insurance to the poor and sick, and it wouldn't result in more expensive or worse insurance for anyone else.  Clearly that is impossible, so people feel like they were lied to.  Some people also hate black people.


I think the preferred nomenclature these days is "the Negro."
 
2014-05-13 08:09:57 PM  

mrshowrules: menschenfresser: Mike_1962: menschenfresser: Crotchrocket Slim:
Sounds more like an argument to go full single payer and cut out the profit-driven insurance companies who don't give a fark if suffer so long as they can make money off you. That you have these networks to deal with is a result of a bunch of cronyism between insurance companies and hospital/clinical organizations; if it weren't for that the money paid out by any insurance company or Uncle Sam would spend just as well.

Amen to that. These insurance leeches shouldn't even be in the picture, much less adding their profit margins to our healthcare costs. Just eliminate the rent-seeking middlemen leeches and health costs instantly drop by what, 25%? More, maybe?

All this useless arguing over "plans," "networks" and stuff is utterly unnecessary - just eliminate insurance and make sure all citizens have access to healthcare, period. Cripes, it's like we're a century behind the developed countries.

Every time I try to get my head around the American health system, the one thing that screws me up is the networks. I mean, I understand what they are, but that setup is just so alien to me. If I need to go to the hospital, I go. Whichever one I want. Letting your healthcare system be run on a for profit basis is just foolish.

For-profit healthcare is so foolish, and it's the elephant in the room as far as healthcare costs, considering the for-profit insurance companies are tacking on whatever percent to everyone's healthcare costs, just to keep as profit for themselves as some sort of reward for acting as the unnecessary middleman.

It's not only foolish, though. If one were to invoke morality, I'd argue that for-profit healthcare is downright immoral. I mean, think about it: charging people money when they're sick or dying, for one's own personal gain? To my mind, making money off people who have no choice but to use your service in order to avoid sickness or even death, is just wrong in every sense of that wo ...


mrshowrules: Reverend Monkeypants: In some parts of the world people become doctors because they're good at it and they want to help people get healthy.  Not because of the enriching profit margin.

Imagine that

US doctors make about 30% more than Canadian doctors.   I think many US doctors would gladly take a 30% pay cut if they could avoid paying 10 times higher malpractice insurance while also being able to decide a patients treatment without negotiating with an insurance company


You don't see the obvious contradiction between your two posts?
 
2014-05-13 08:10:28 PM  

menschenfresser: For-profit healthcare is so foolish, and it's the elephant in the room as far as healthcare costs, considering the for-profit insurance companies are tacking on whatever percent to everyone's healthcare costs, just to keep as profit for themselves as some sort of reward for acting as the unnecessary middleman.



The ACA already imposes margin controls on insurance companies.  They are required to spend 85% of premiums on care or refund the difference to their beneficiaries.
 
2014-05-13 08:13:59 PM  

cchris_39: menschenfresser: For-profit healthcare is so foolish, and it's the elephant in the room as far as healthcare costs, considering the for-profit insurance companies are tacking on whatever percent to everyone's healthcare costs, just to keep as profit for themselves as some sort of reward for acting as the unnecessary middleman.


The ACA already imposes margin controls on insurance companies.  They are required to spend 85% of premiums on care or refund the difference to their beneficiaries.


Then our healthcare premiums are 15% too high since by this definition that percentage is being skimmed off for acting as the middleman. That's huge.
 
2014-05-13 08:17:31 PM  
menschenfresser

I'm going to guess you are a troll because no one is that stupid.
 
2014-05-13 08:18:15 PM  

Lucky LaRue: Killer Cars: Lucky LaRue: With all the possible solutions available, the Democrats choose the one that steals money out of the pockets of the middle class, but I'm the asshole.. Liberals love to bemoan the death of the middle class, but they and their redistribution of wealth taxation plans are to blame for it.

You totally glossed over your broad generalization that those who would be most benefitted from the ACA are "poor" and "lazy". You can rant about taxes if you'd like, but that's not what you got called out on.

Call them people who've made bad life choices and are looking to other people to fund a do-over if that makes you feel better.


Are we talking about Wall Street? Banks? GM? Cause corporations are people my friend.
 
2014-05-13 08:19:25 PM  

Lucky LaRue: What do you have against profit?


Well, in this case, it created an inherent perverse incentive for insurance companies to deny and delay treatments to keep a policy profitable.  And yes, people were killed because of this.
 
2014-05-13 08:30:45 PM  

Crotchrocket Slim: You don't see the obvious contradiction between your two posts?


I don't see my two posts in your post but I said two things (I paraphrase).

1) Private insurance is foolish but there is a place for free market health care under a single-payer funding model

2) Many doctors would take a pay cut for the benefits of being under a single-payer model instead of a private insurance model.

I don't see the contradiction.
 
2014-05-13 08:45:33 PM  

Pimparoo: Lucky LaRue: ACA isn't about choice - it's about bringing everyone down to the lowest denominator so that poor and lazy people aren't offended by people who work hard to get ahead in life.

There's nothing I love more than people Farking at 2:30 on a Tuesday claiming they work hard.


Astroturf isn't free,you know.
 
2014-05-13 08:59:55 PM  

mrshowrules: Crotchrocket Slim: You don't see the obvious contradiction between your two posts?

I don't see my two posts in your post but I said two things (I paraphrase).

1) Private insurance is foolish but there is a place for free market health care under a single-payer funding model

2) Many doctors would take a pay cut for the benefits of being under a single-payer model instead of a private insurance model.

I don't see the contradiction.


I need to understand what you mean by "free market health care" - that's where I'm seeing a contradiction.
 
2014-05-13 09:08:00 PM  

netizencain: About 10 million people now have insurance because of ACA... something like that, right?  So like 3% of the population?  I dunno, I'm pretty farking stupid but taking away options for a lot of Americans in order to help 3% seems pretty crappy.  Maybe things will just take time to balance out.  I'll wait ten years and then pass judgement on this.


First they said 30 million were without healthcare. In reality it's more like 10 million if that, according to their own numbers.
 It would have been cheaper to pay for their care with cash, but no, lets take a system that 80% of the people with insurance understand and use and blow it up to help the 10 million who don't have any coverage. Makes perfect sense right?
You're not stupid, you're just missing the point. It's about control, taking yours away and giving it to them.
 
2014-05-13 09:09:12 PM  

kyrg: netizencain: About 10 million people now have insurance because of ACA... something like that, right?  So like 3% of the population?  I dunno, I'm pretty farking stupid but taking away options for a lot of Americans in order to help 3% seems pretty crappy.  Maybe things will just take time to balance out.  I'll wait ten years and then pass judgement on this.

First they said 30 million were without healthcare. In reality it's more like 10 million if that, according to their own numbers.
 It would have been cheaper to pay for their care with cash,
but no, lets take a system that 80% of the people with insurance understand and use and blow it up to help the 10 million who don't have any coverage. Makes perfect sense right?
You're not stupid, you're just missing the point. It's about control, taking yours away and giving it to them.


Citations needed
 
2014-05-13 09:11:03 PM  

Crotchrocket Slim: mrshowrules: Crotchrocket Slim: You don't see the obvious contradiction between your two posts?

I don't see my two posts in your post but I said two things (I paraphrase).

1) Private insurance is foolish but there is a place for free market health care under a single-payer funding model

2) Many doctors would take a pay cut for the benefits of being under a single-payer model instead of a private insurance model.

I don't see the contradiction.

I need to understand what you mean by "free market health care" - that's where I'm seeing a contradiction.


Many doctor practices, most clinics and even some hospitals are private in Canada (free market).  Doctors don't work for the Government.  They are either self-employed or work for a non-profit or municipal hospital.  In many case the work for a free market clinic or practice.  Actually it is similar to Medicare in the US but because the system has a monopoly in Canada, we can influence pricing/costs.

UK doctor's are actually Government doctors.

A Canadian doctor/clinic/practice submits their claims to the Province (State) and is reimbursed for their work.  The Province acts as the single insurance company.  It actually ends up costing each person about 50% of the cost as US per capita (taxes & premiums combined).
 
2014-05-13 09:20:06 PM  

mrshowrules: Crotchrocket Slim: mrshowrules: Crotchrocket Slim: You don't see the obvious contradiction between your two posts?

I don't see my two posts in your post but I said two things (I paraphrase).

1) Private insurance is foolish but there is a place for free market health care under a single-payer funding model

2) Many doctors would take a pay cut for the benefits of being under a single-payer model instead of a private insurance model.

I don't see the contradiction.

I need to understand what you mean by "free market health care" - that's where I'm seeing a contradiction.

Many doctor practices, most clinics and even some hospitals are private in Canada (free market).  Doctors don't work for the Government.  They are either self-employed or work for a non-profit or municipal hospital.  In many case the work for a free market clinic or practice.  Actually it is similar to Medicare in the US but because the system has a monopoly in Canada, we can influence pricing/costs.

UK doctor's are actually Government doctors.

A Canadian doctor/clinic/practice submits their claims to the Province (State) and is reimbursed for their work.  The Province acts as the single insurance company.  It actually ends up costing each person about 50% of the cost as US per capita (taxes & premiums combined).


By American standards so long as government is paying things out to doctors it's not really free market; that said if we go single payer I'd love to have something resembling the Canadian system though.
 
2014-05-13 09:44:36 PM  

Crotchrocket Slim: kyrg: netizencain: About 10 million people now have insurance because of ACA... something like that, right?  So like 3% of the population?  I dunno, I'm pretty farking stupid but taking away options for a lot of Americans in order to help 3% seems pretty crappy.  Maybe things will just take time to balance out.  I'll wait ten years and then pass judgement on this.

First they said 30 million were without healthcare. In reality it's more like 10 million if that, according to their own numbers.
 It would have been cheaper to pay for their care with cash, but no, lets take a system that 80% of the people with insurance understand and use and blow it up to help the 10 million who don't have any coverage. Makes perfect sense right?
You're not stupid, you're just missing the point. It's about control, taking yours away and giving it to them.

Citations needed


http://acasignups.net/
http://americanactionforum.org/research/affordable-care-act-at-four- re gulatory-costs-exceed-benefits-by-twofold Stop being lazy and google it yourself next time
 
2014-05-13 10:07:05 PM  

kyrg: Crotchrocket Slim: kyrg: netizencain: About 10 million people now have insurance because of ACA... something like that, right?  So like 3% of the population?  I dunno, I'm pretty farking stupid but taking away options for a lot of Americans in order to help 3% seems pretty crappy.  Maybe things will just take time to balance out.  I'll wait ten years and then pass judgement on this.

First they said 30 million were without healthcare. In reality it's more like 10 million if that, according to their own numbers.
 It would have been cheaper to pay for their care with cash, but no, lets take a system that 80% of the people with insurance understand and use and blow it up to help the 10 million who don't have any coverage. Makes perfect sense right?
You're not stupid, you're just missing the point. It's about control, taking yours away and giving it to them.

Citations needed

http://acasignups.net/


From your link:
Estimated Total, all sources: (17.3 M - 27.7 M)
 - note that includes people who have signed up for insurance outside of government exchanges, who didn't have insurance before. 

http://americanactionforum.org/research/affordable-care-act-at-four- re gulatory-costs-exceed-benefits-by-twofold Stop being lazy and google it yourself next time

The American Action Forum is a 21st century center-right policy institute providing actionable research and analysis to solve America's most pressing policy challenges.


Yeah you're a moron for paying any creedance to any think tank that displays its bias so blatantly.

Try again True Believer!
 
2014-05-13 10:28:50 PM  

Chummer45: Yes, rather than a simple, single payer health care, I'd much rather have to spend the time wading through tons of different insurance plans and the various benefits they provide.


Man... Instead of all these different foods in the grocery store, wouldn't it be great if the government just gave me oatmeal?  Man... That would be great!  I'd never have to think at all!

shiat... Let's get rid of elections, car companies, cell phone providers... We could have the government just give us one choice.  Yay!!!
 
2014-05-13 10:32:07 PM  

Lucky LaRue: ACA isn't about choice - it's about bringing everyone down to the lowest denominator so that poor and lazy people aren't offended by people who work hard to get ahead in life.


Look everyone! An asshole!
 
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