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(The New York Times)   DeBlasio looks to Sweden as a model for NYC traffic law, because what works in a country with 25 Swedes per square mile will work just as well in a city with 25,000 lunatics per square mile   (nytimes.com) divider line 79
    More: Dumbass, nyc, DeBlasio, Sweden, Blasio, road safety, Swedish Model, Bill de Blasio, culture change  
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404 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 May 2014 at 11:03 AM (10 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-05-13 10:19:10 AM
According to the New York City plan, fatality rates in American states with Vision Zero policies, including Minnesota and Utah, fell at a pace more than 25 percent quicker than the national rate.

I am 125% certain this is a bogus statistic of no predictive value.

If NYC officials really thought speeding was the problem they proclaim in public, and if the "die in" protest represented the opinions of normal people, streets would be full of cops with laser guns. Even in a city where most households are car free(*) people don't think it's a big deal. If the state authorizes more revenue positive ticket cameras, great, but if they have to pay for enforcement they'll pass.

(*) Stat from streetsblog, which I don't trust, but it could be correct. Specifically, the claim is 54% of households citywide are car free and only 14% have more than one car.
 
2014-05-13 10:19:48 AM
At least he's right that NYC is a population of like-minded people who care about each others' well being and have a a strong cultural inclination to follow rules that benefit society as a whole.  So he's got that going for him.
 
2014-05-13 10:34:09 AM
Missed opportunity to reference 10,000 maniacs.
 
2014-05-13 11:09:18 AM
do something really progressive and make the fines progressive instead of jamming poor people with 300 dollar fines for things like not wearing a seatbelt or going 5 over the speed limit so they have no discretionary spending for months, or don't and ban horses or something.
 
2014-05-13 11:12:11 AM
It takes an exceptionally cynical person to automatically assume it can't work without even defining what "it" is
 
2014-05-13 11:18:40 AM

Headso: do something really progressive and make the fines progressive instead of jamming poor people with 300 dollar fines for things like not wearing a seatbelt or going 5 over the speed limit so they have no discretionary spending for months, or don't and ban horses or something.


If you drive a car and live in any of the five boroughs then you are not "poor".
 
2014-05-13 11:19:51 AM
Subby, Sweden is a country. New York is a city. Not sure if you know this.
 
2014-05-13 11:21:56 AM

Trail of Dead: Subby, Mr. Mayor, Sweden is a country. New York is a city. Not sure if you know this.


Fixed.
 
2014-05-13 11:26:58 AM
So, how about we simply make NYC its own City-State. We're free of them, they can do what they want, and we don't have to deal with their shiatshow policies.
 
2014-05-13 11:27:01 AM

illogic: Headso: do something really progressive and make the fines progressive instead of jamming poor people with 300 dollar fines for things like not wearing a seatbelt or going 5 over the speed limit so they have no discretionary spending for months, or don't and ban horses or something.

If you drive a car and live in any of the five boroughs then you are not "poor".


Yeah I don't know many people that have cars that wouldn't consider themselves well off. Unless maybe they're all the way out in the sticks like Far Rockaway or something.
 
2014-05-13 11:27:04 AM
When you wish to improve street safety, your best bet is to avoid examining programs that have lead to greater street safety. Best practices are unAmerican.
 
2014-05-13 11:27:57 AM

Trail of Dead: Subby, Sweden is a country. New York is a city. Not sure if you know this.


Try telling that to New Yorkers.  They think that America ends on the other side of the bridge
 
2014-05-13 11:28:04 AM

Kit Fister: So, how about we simply make NYC its own City-State. We're free of them, they can do what they want, and we don't have to deal with their shiatshow policies.


Who is we? How are you dealing with their traffic safety policies if you don't live there?
 
2014-05-13 11:28:47 AM
I still think congestion pricing could do a lot to improve traffic in Manhattan and generate significant revenue from those who can and are willing to afford it.

There is a small segment of the population who will drive to work in Manhattan no matter what the cost.  I work with a few of these people.  They are extremely dedicated.  They would prefer to spend several hours every day sitting on a bridge or in a tunnel so they can pay $50 per day (or $300 monthly rate) for parking.

Most normal folks realize that taking public transit is faster and cheaper pretty much from anywhere in the tri-state region.

I know that last attempt to get congestion pricing in Manhattan failed miserably.  Does anyone know how it has worked out in London?  Has traffic improved?  Any significant revenue?
 
2014-05-13 11:31:33 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Trail of Dead: Subby, Sweden is a country. New York is a city. Not sure if you know this.

Try telling that to New Yorkers.  They think that America ends on the other side of the bridge


Not quite...
blogs.artinfo.com
 
2014-05-13 11:31:55 AM
Dear subby, Sweden has cities too.... pretty sure if you pretend the US is all evenly distributed, your population per square mile isn't all that impressive either.
 
2014-05-13 11:32:38 AM

illogic: Most normal folks realize that taking public transit is faster and cheaper pretty much from anywhere in the tri-state region.


Depends on the time of day. I used to drive from Greenwich to Wall St. at 6am and make it in about 45 minutes door to door. Granted going home took longer but at least it was relatively private. Not especially green of me but it beat the crap out of Metro North then the subway. No contest at all.
 
2014-05-13 11:34:02 AM

illogic: Headso: do something really progressive and make the fines progressive instead of jamming poor people with 300 dollar fines for things like not wearing a seatbelt or going 5 over the speed limit so they have no discretionary spending for months, or don't and ban horses or something.

If you drive a car and live in any of the five boroughs then you are not "poor".


you could replace poor with middle class and the argument would be just as true, NY has a shiatton of regressive fines and fees and taxes that take money out of the economy.
 
2014-05-13 11:37:06 AM
Stockholm has less than half the density of NYC but some things may translate.

27,778.7/sq mi vs. 12,000/sq mi
 
2014-05-13 11:37:51 AM

flucto: Not especially green of me but it beat the crap out of Metro North then the subway. No contest at all.


But the Metro North had the bar cars (sadly, discontinued last Friday).  I almost would have been willing to move to CT just so I could ride home on the Metro North.
 
2014-05-13 11:39:36 AM

illogic: But the Metro North had the bar cars (sadly, discontinued last Friday). I almost would have been willing to move to CT just so I could ride home on the Metro North.


You can still buy a trashcan sized single serving container right outside the train. The bar cars were weird and uncomfortable anyway.
 
2014-05-13 11:45:51 AM

James!: Missed opportunity to reference 10,000 maniacs.


Hey, Jack Kerouac, What's the Matter Here? You cannot take into account every traffic variable, Like the Weather. Accidents happen when it is a Rainy Day. Whatever you do, Don't Talk about someplace rural, like the Painted Desert, you'll make us all Gun Shy.
 
2014-05-13 11:47:02 AM
Ah yes, the old conservative argument every time you bring up one of the many things Europe does better.

"but but but they are different than us in some small ways"
 
2014-05-13 12:02:22 PM
Come on, subby, just go ahead and blame all America's problems on the ni*bong*s. You'll feel better once you're out.
 
2014-05-13 12:06:43 PM

lilplatinum: Ah yes, the old conservative argument every time you bring up one of the many things Europe does better.

"but but but they are different than us in some small ways"


What does Europe as a whole do better than us?
 
2014-05-13 12:09:04 PM

R.A.Danny: lilplatinum: Ah yes, the old conservative argument every time you bring up one of the many things Europe does better.

"but but but they are different than us in some small ways"

What does Europe as a whole do better than us?


I meant specific individual countries in Europe.
 
2014-05-13 12:10:02 PM

lilplatinum: R.A.Danny: lilplatinum: Ah yes, the old conservative argument every time you bring up one of the many things Europe does better.

"but but but they are different than us in some small ways"

What does Europe as a whole do better than us?

I meant specific individual countries in Europe.


So which specific European country does things better than us?
 
2014-05-13 12:12:55 PM

lilplatinum: Ah yes, the old conservative argument every time you bring up one of the many things Europe does better.

"but but but they are different than us in some small ways"


Sweden: a long history of some of the most honest, competent and transparent governance on earth, where the locals gasp if a local politician buys a cup of coffee on the taxpayers' krona without noting it on his publicly-available personal expense disclosure file. Top officials are elected after demonstrating selfless commitment to the public good and demonstrable value to the nation.

NYC: a long history of graft, sleaze, corner-cutting, incompetence, self-promotion, boning the taxpayer nine ways from Sunday, and (redacted because FARK YOU) where you can't go two weeks without an assemblyman or city council member being hauled off in handcuffs. Top officials are elected because their son has cool hair.
 
2014-05-13 12:14:43 PM

Kit Fister: So, how about we simply make NYC its own City-State. We're free of them, they can do what they want, and we don't have to deal with their shiatshow policies.


Kurt Russell votes no.
www.intrepidboy.com
 
2014-05-13 12:16:32 PM

StopDaddy: Kurt Russell votes no.


I thought he was dead.
 
2014-05-13 12:18:43 PM

R.A.Danny: So which specific European country does things better than us?


From personal experience, Germany has better worker protections, health care, higher education costs, public transportation, etc.

Statistically several Euro nations beat us in lots of categories.   There are also things we do much better over here.  An intelligent non partisan hack would look at both things and honestly see what they do better and what we can learn from how they do it (and from the mistakes they made when implementing their system) to improve our own country.

Instead we get vast generalizations (often based on stereotypes of how another countries people are just genetically more honest or harder working or there are less mexicans or whatever right wing nonsense gets trotted out) this that will convince the proles that we are too fundamentally different to compare, but upon closer reading says absolutely nothing about how traffic law implementation could be improved or not.
 
2014-05-13 12:24:34 PM
After being hit by a taxi in NYC while walking across the street on a green light. where the hospital told me that getting hit by taxis is so common the hospital made it into a acronym, and that people commonly get hit on the same corner I did, I am starting to see  a problem. I don't know how effective this idea will be, but given how predictably bad traffic accidents are in NYC I think it is worth a shot.
 
2014-05-13 12:32:07 PM
The basic concept seems plausible. I'm glad they're admitting it's a problem and working to fix it. Everyone where I live just ignores car fatalities as a fact of life.
 
2014-05-13 12:34:09 PM

StopDaddy: Kit Fister: So, how about we simply make NYC its own City-State. We're free of them, they can do what they want, and we don't have to deal with their shiatshow policies.

Kurt Russell votes no.
[www.intrepidboy.com image 850x674]


Frankly, i don't think Snake Pliskin would give a shiat as long as he didn't have to go in there.

Me, I don't give a shiat so long as I don't have to go in there.

Let's make a deal, NYC: You stop exporting your shiatty politicians like Bloomberg and his asinine policies, and stop trying to convince other cities to take up stupendously nanny-state regulations/policies, and you guys can do whatever the hell you want in your city. Ban smoking? go for it. Ban guns? Sure. Ban cars? Go for it. Station a DCPS nanny in every home with a child? Go for it.

Long as it stays in NYC, fine by me. Meanwhile, I'm happy to suggest to anyone looking that if they want similar lifestyles without the crowding, dirt, noise, and rudeness, there are alternative cities with equally diverse populations that do not have nearly the same level of crap and self-centeredness going on.

/I also propose we nuke Detroit and fence of most of Chicago and let the gangs sort themselves out.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-05-13 12:35:25 PM
Gwyrddu

There was an attempted tearjerker on Fark a few days ago (8248966) where the author of the story got hit crossing with the light. That would not have been affected by speed limits, red light cameras, median refuges, or the rest of the vision, because the vehicle involved was making a legal turn at turning speed. Well, legal except for the pedestrian in the way in the traveled part of the road, but cameras don't enforce that. It's not the speed of the turning truck that hurts as much as the weight of the wheels crushing your legs.

A European idea I would like to see tried in America, not necessarily lower Manhattan, is the "naked street" concept.  Relax the rules rather than ruling with an iron fist.
 
2014-05-13 12:36:56 PM

moothemagiccow: The basic concept seems plausible. I'm glad they're admitting it's a problem and working to fix it. Everyone where I live just ignores car fatalities as a fact of life.


i actually agree.

I'd actually, believe it or not, suggest that it makes more sense to restrict streets in NYC from surface traffic by anything other than delivery vehicles, mass transit, bikes, and pedestrians, and those vehicles be required to be electric. I'd suggest horses, but that's no kind of place to keep horses.

It makes sense in most big cities with congested urban centers: keep the traffic out, make the flow of people in and out much like a router handling traffic, and beef up options that make moving around easier on everyone.

Then, those that want to drive cars and move out of the urban center so they can keep their cars, or they can ditch their cars and stay in the urban center. win/win.
 
2014-05-13 12:42:57 PM

R.A.Danny: lilplatinum: R.A.Danny: lilplatinum: Ah yes, the old conservative argument every time you bring up one of the many things Europe does better.

"but but but they are different than us in some small ways"

What does Europe as a whole do better than us?

I meant specific individual countries in Europe.

So which specific European country does things better than us?


Well, I won't get into a whole list of things, but a noticeable one is they don't murder each other nearly as much as we do. That goes for individual countries  and Europe as a whole.
 
2014-05-13 12:44:03 PM

Moosecakes: R.A.Danny: lilplatinum: R.A.Danny: lilplatinum: Ah yes, the old conservative argument every time you bring up one of the many things Europe does better.

"but but but they are different than us in some small ways"

What does Europe as a whole do better than us?

I meant specific individual countries in Europe.

So which specific European country does things better than us?

Well, I won't get into a whole list of things, but a noticeable one is they don't murder each other nearly as much as we do. That goes for individual countries  and Europe as a whole.


Or maybe they're not as good at murdering each other as we are. I suppose you could look at it from both angles.
 
2014-05-13 12:44:05 PM

Moosecakes: Well, I won't get into a whole list of things, but a noticeable one is they don't murder each other nearly as much as we do. That goes for individual countries  and Europe as a whole.


So we murder better. WIN!
 
2014-05-13 12:47:50 PM
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2014-05-13 12:57:03 PM

Moosecakes: Or maybe they're not as good at murdering each other as we are. I suppose you could look at it from both angles.


Or maybe they don't have the generations of racial tensions that have created a bigotry fueled criminal class which is responsible for the vast majorities of the murders here.
Which is not to say that there is no racism in Europe. In fact bigotry is alive and well to the point that it is often state sanctioned over there.
 
2014-05-13 01:20:58 PM
actual manhattanite here. i never had much use for bloomberg but what he did (actually, what commissioner sadik-khan did) with traffic rules was excellent. and they too "couldn't have worked", until they were implemented and they did work. good on deblasio.
 
2014-05-13 01:27:01 PM
DeBlasio looks to Sweden as a model

itstinksinhere.files.wordpress.com

what the swedish models might look like
 
2014-05-13 01:34:32 PM

Gulper Eel: lilplatinum: Ah yes, the old conservative argument every time you bring up one of the many things Europe does better.

"but but but they are different than us in some small ways"

Sweden: a long history of some of the most honest, competent and transparent governance on earth, where the locals gasp if a local politician buys a cup of coffee on the taxpayers' krona without noting it on his publicly-available personal expense disclosure file. Top officials are elected after demonstrating selfless commitment to the public good and demonstrable value to the nation.

NYC: a long history of graft, sleaze, corner-cutting, incompetence, self-promotion, boning the taxpayer nine ways from Sunday, and (redacted because FARK YOU) where you can't go two weeks without an assemblyman or city council member being hauled off in handcuffs. Top officials are elected because their son has cool hair.


And how would that impacting adopting similar traffic policies?
 
2014-05-13 01:37:28 PM

Kit Fister: StopDaddy: Kit Fister: So, how about we simply make NYC its own City-State. We're free of them, they can do what they want, and we don't have to deal with their shiatshow policies.

Kurt Russell votes no.
[www.intrepidboy.com image 850x674]

Frankly, i don't think Snake Pliskin would give a shiat as long as he didn't have to go in there.

Me, I don't give a shiat so long as I don't have to go in there.

Let's make a deal, NYC: You stop exporting your shiatty politicians like Bloomberg and his asinine policies, and stop trying to convince other cities to take up stupendously nanny-state regulations/policies, and you guys can do whatever the hell you want in your city. Ban smoking? go for it. Ban guns? Sure. Ban cars? Go for it. Station a DCPS nanny in every home with a child? Go for it.

Long as it stays in NYC, fine by me.


Decided to work on this argument a bit, did you? It's still terrible.

"Dear NYC, stop doing things, especially things that work. People in my podunk town might want to change things and that frightens and confuses me."
 
2014-05-13 01:52:29 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Decided to work on this argument a bit, did you? It's still terrible.

"Dear NYC, stop doing things, especially things that work. People in my podunk town might want to change things and that frightens and confuses me."


Oh go fark yourself. Soda bans? Cigarette Bans? Stop and Frisk? They "Work", and are also unconstitutional and retarded.

I don't want those policies and vote against them because no matter how well they "Work", I don't want some nosey asshole telling me what to do, and invade my privacy.

So, sure, if NYC wants to become a complete nannystate hub, let 'em. Just don't expect the rest of the country to think it;s a wonderful idea and suddenly adopt it.
 
2014-05-13 01:58:51 PM

Kit Fister: HotWingConspiracy: Decided to work on this argument a bit, did you? It's still terrible.

"Dear NYC, stop doing things, especially things that work. People in my podunk town might want to change things and that frightens and confuses me."

Oh go fark yourself. Soda bans? Cigarette Bans? Stop and Frisk? They "Work", and are also unconstitutional and retarded.


They're many things, unconstitutional isn't one of them.

I don't want those policies and vote against them because no matter how well they "Work", I don't want some nosey asshole telling me what to do, and invade my privacy.

So, sure, if NYC wants to become a complete nannystate hub, let 'em. Just don't expect the rest of the country to think it;s a wonderful idea and suddenly adopt it.


Of course, this has nothing to do with what you posted. You're upset that people in NYC have opinions and votes, and would like them to stop talking about things because it upsets you on a personal level and you're afraid you'll be outvoted by people that are tired of your beloved status quo.
 
2014-05-13 02:01:19 PM

Kit Fister: Oh go fark yourself. Soda bans? Cigarette Bans? Stop and Frisk? They "Work", and are also unconstitutional and retarded.


Soda bans and cigarette bans are not only unconstitutional and retarded, they have never been attempted to be implemented in the city.

Stop and Frisk was correctly slapped down and fortunately Di Blasio isn't a shiathead like Bloombergo..

Just don't expect the rest of the country to think it;s a wonderful idea and suddenly adopt it.

No one is forcing to, shiat it is the gun nuts that try to force our safe city to allow more limpdicks to haul guns in - we aren't trying to force you to stop killing each other.
 
2014-05-13 02:06:09 PM

lilplatinum: they have never been attempted to be implemented in the city.


Ah good point. You can still buy all the cigs you like.

Stop & Frisk survived though after that panel sanctioned the judge. Di Blasio just has no interest in utilizing such wasteful tactics.
 
2014-05-13 02:06:13 PM

lilplatinum: No one is forcing to, shiat it is the gun nuts that try to force our safe city to allow more limpdicks to haul guns in - we aren't trying to force you to stop killing each other.


First of all, people in NYC and surrounding suburbs own guns legally. It's their right to and that should not be abridged.

Second of all, the people in NYC are still dying, just at the hands of the cops, rather than crooks.  Seems like you traded one gang problem for another.

Thirdly, what you do in your city is your business. Just don't act like it's the best thing for everyone. NYC thinks it's the shiat that everyone should emulate, and that's a bit offensive because not everyone agrees with you. Thankfully, there're enough people that don't like NYC's policies that I don't have to worry about them voting them into play.
 
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