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(Reason Magazine)   Were you watching the trial of Tyrion Lannister and thinking "wow, this trial is really an allegory for how libertarianism is unjustly judged in the court of public opinion"? If you're the guy who said "yes", you apparently wrote this article   (reason.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, court of public opinion, Tyrion, libertarians, witness testimony, Game of Thrones, public opinions, HBO  
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1444 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 May 2014 at 12:48 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-12 11:03:16 PM  
Tyrion made it easy to pin an obvious crime on him by being the only one to be candid about Joffrey's sociopathic behavior. And so it feels, sometimes, with the attacks on libertarianism, where good faith efforts to improve public policy outcomes by limiting the deleterious effects of government are skewered as some diabolical ploy to loot and pillage the people through corporatism, exactly that which libertarian policy solutions try to prevent.

Wow.
 
2014-05-12 11:13:07 PM  

DamnYankees: Tyrion made it easy to pin an obvious crime on him by being the only one to be candid about Joffrey's sociopathic behavior. And so it feels, sometimes, with the attacks on libertarianism, where good faith efforts to improve public policy outcomes by limiting the deleterious effects of government are skewered as some diabolical ploy to loot and pillage the people through corporatism, exactly that which libertarian policy solutions try to prevent.

Wow.


Yah that's some serious lack of self awareness right there.  Even if you take the writer at his word that HE believes that his own political motivations are to "limit the deleterious effects of government"  the Libertarian movement as a whole, is not.  They target not only "deleterious effects" but also protective and beneficial effects as well.  So, sure, we are all more free....to starve and be exploited and abused by non-government entities.
 
2014-05-12 11:15:39 PM  
Oh my farking god
 
2014-05-12 11:28:02 PM  
When you realize Libertarianism is really a religion, it becomes way easier to understand why Libertarians act and say the things they do.
 
2014-05-12 11:34:12 PM  
No I was thinking "damn that little dude can act".
 
2014-05-12 11:43:17 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-05-12 11:43:51 PM  
Where do whores go?  To trade their worthless fiat currency for gold, apparently.
 
2014-05-12 11:45:14 PM  
No, I was thinking something along the lines of "Ok, Cersei is pissed her plans might unravel. Shae is in year of what happens if Tyrion goes free. The Tyrells are breathing an inward sigh of relief that Tyrion might not go down for the crime their Grandmother committed. Mace Tyrell is thinking 'hurrrrr'. The Red Viper is intrigued. And Tywin is wishing he'd strangled Tyrion at birth.
 
2014-05-12 11:51:19 PM  

BSABSVR: Where do whores go?  To trade their worthless fiat currency for gold, apparently.


Oh, are we doing this now? Awesome.

Fiat currency is not a pit. Fiat currency is a ladder.

You know nothing, John Maynard Keynes.

The man who issues a regulation should write the entry into the Federal Code.
 
2014-05-12 11:52:29 PM  

SilentStrider: The Tyrells are breathing an inward sigh of relief that Tyrion might not go down for the crime their Grandmother committed.


1) How would the Tyrell's know Olenna did it? Margaery has an inkling, but why would anyone else?

2) Even if they knew, why would they give a fark if Tyrion took the fall?

3) Even if they want Tyrion to take the fall, how does that help them end the Federal Reserve Bank of Westeros?
 
2014-05-12 11:52:32 PM  
Oh I can see how libertarians would make that connection. Tyrion getting shiat on his entire life, turning the tide of battle while his chickenshiat nephew hid, saving the city and his entire family, then getting shiat on again and set up to be executed for a crime he didn't commit ... that's exactly the same as wanting to throw all the poors off food stamps, Social Security, Medicare, and everything else, because you're too selfish to pay your fair share of taxes.

Yeah, those are exactly the same.
 
2014-05-12 11:52:45 PM  
Game of Thrones: still more realistic than anything written by Ayn Rand.
 
2014-05-12 11:55:21 PM  

DamnYankees: SilentStrider: The Tyrells are breathing an inward sigh of relief that Tyrion might not go down for the crime their Grandmother committed.

1) How would the Tyrell's know Olenna did it? Margaery has an inkling, but why would anyone else?


I'm not sure how it happened in the books, but in the show Olenna flat out tells Margaery she did it.
 
2014-05-12 11:56:29 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I'm not sure how it happened in the books, but in the show Olenna flat out tells Margaery she did it.


Kind of. She very, very strongly suggests it. But she doesn't outright say it. Regardless, Mace is still an idiot and Loras just seems out of it.
 
2014-05-13 12:06:55 AM  
I totally forgot that Lysa was the one who poisoned Jon Arryn. Not really on topic, but still.
 
2014-05-13 12:08:03 AM  

HawgWild: I totally forgot that Lysa was the one who poisoned Jon Arryn. Not really on topic, but still.


Don't you mean you forgot that Lysa freed the market economy of Westeros by ridding the country of its interfering, regulating Hand of the King, giving Westerosi entrepreneurs more chances to succeed?
 
2014-05-13 12:08:38 AM  
Of course a Libertarian would think this way.  They feel that, like Atlas, they carry the world on their shoulder.  They don't seem to realize is that if they shrugged then whatever role they played, small or large, would be filled within minutes because the market is a real thing and what they offer isn't so wonderfully unique.
 
2014-05-13 12:13:15 AM  

DamnYankees: HawgWild: I totally forgot that Lysa was the one who poisoned Jon Arryn. Not really on topic, but still.

Don't you mean you forgot that Lysa freed the market economy of Westeros by ridding the country of its interfering, regulating Hand of the King, giving Westerosi entrepreneurs more chances to succeed?


Yes. Yes, uh ... of course. I totally forgot that.
 randomthoughtsofamananap.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-05-13 12:16:59 AM  
I don't have HBO so I didn't see the episode but after watching the trial clip on youtube I can see how someone might construe his speech as similar to "going Galt".

That doesn't make the comparison applicable to the real world.  Libertarians aren't saving us from anything and I doubt they'd want anyone to believe that they'd gladly let the whole world burn for not appreciating their sacrifices and genius.
 
2014-05-13 12:18:15 AM  
My name is Reek, rhymes with regulations kept the Starks from reaching their peak.

soulofatlas.com
The Crone


profs.wisc.edu
The Many-faced God
 
2014-05-13 12:20:13 AM  
Gotdamn, Ayn Rand was UGLY!
 
2014-05-13 12:21:08 AM  

HawgWild: Gotdamn, Ayn Rand was UGLY!


Dental care is for statists.
 
2014-05-13 12:22:09 AM  

HawgWild: Gotdamn, Ayn Rand was UGLY!


And she hasn't gotten any more attractive over time.
 
2014-05-13 12:27:07 AM  
WTF did I just read?
 
2014-05-13 12:28:08 AM  

DamnYankees: TuteTibiImperes: I'm not sure how it happened in the books, but in the show Olenna flat out tells Margaery she did it.

Kind of. She very, very strongly suggests it. But she doesn't outright say it. Regardless, Mace is still an idiot and Loras just seems out of it.


You have a point. Margaery doesn't want someone else to down for someone else's crime, at least I think.
I could be totally wrong. Since she didn't actually have any dialogue, it's tough to know what she's thinking right now.
 
2014-05-13 12:28:40 AM  
Libertarianism is the short bus of political philosophy. They ignore history at our peril.
 
2014-05-13 12:40:25 AM  
There's libertarians and then there's the short-bus of Tea Partiers self-described as libertarians who think their SNAP is funded by magical unicorn farts
 
2014-05-13 12:50:43 AM  
www.snarksquad.com
 
2014-05-13 12:56:02 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: Libertarianism is the short bus of political philosophy.


It's only political philosophy in the sense that the Necronomicon is a physics textbook.  Making some random shiat up with what an extremely stupid person might consider and "economics theme" isn't the same thing as actually being a policy philosophy.
 
2014-05-13 12:57:01 AM  
Tyrion said "I wish I had enough poison for the whole pack of you".

That exactly how libertarians feel about the poor.
 
2014-05-13 12:59:10 AM  
Libertarians:

People who vote Republican as "lesser of two evils."
 
2014-05-13 12:59:15 AM  
Wouldn't a more libertarian bit of that show be when Cersei demanded that the leftovers from Joffrey's wedding be given to the dogs instead of going to feed the poor?
 
2014-05-13 01:00:55 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Darth_Lukecash: Libertarianism is the short bus of political philosophy.

It's only political philosophy in the sense that the Necronomicon is a physics textbook.  Making some random shiat up with what an extremely stupid person might consider and "economics theme" isn't the same thing as actually being a policy philosophy.


I was feeling generous to the libertarians. Not that they'd appreciate it.
 
2014-05-13 01:09:04 AM  
I just don't understand why I should pay so much property taxes.  *I* don't have kids in public school.
 
2014-05-13 01:11:25 AM  

El Pachuco: I just don't understand why I should pay so much property taxes.  *I* don't have kids in public school.


Satire, or just masochism?
 
2014-05-13 01:13:23 AM  
A libertarian is just a small guy with a really hard dick.
 
2014-05-13 01:15:15 AM  

muck1969: There's libertarians and then there's the short-bus of Tea Partiers self-described as libertarians who think their SNAP is funded by magical unicorn farts

fallacyaday.com
 
2014-05-13 01:17:10 AM  

DamnYankees: SilentStrider: The Tyrells are breathing an inward sigh of relief that Tyrion might not go down for the crime their Grandmother committed.

1) How would the Tyrell's know Olenna did it? Margaery has an inkling, but why would anyone else?

2) Even if they knew, why would they give a fark if Tyrion took the fall?

3) Even if they want Tyrion to take the fall, how does that help them end the Federal Reserve Bank of Westeros?




Olenna pretty much flat-out told Margaery. And Margaery seems to have something that at least resembles a conscience. And I don't believe it was a complete act that she enjoyed Sansa and felt at least a small urge to protect or help her. Tyrion's guilt will apply to Sansa too.

Obviously it's possible Margaery is cold as fark and all of it is an act, but it's extremely difficult to pull that sort of thing off full-time without actually having some empathy to draw from. I think she related to Sansa sort of the way the Hound did--recognized Sansa's naïveté as something she had once but gave up a long time ago, and realizes Sansa was too gentle and trusting to have ever had a chance of surviving the games she got caught up in. And seeing that she's still strong enough to still be around makes them want to help her before it's too late.

/the same thing Baelish sees in her
//except his response to it is very different
///creepers gonna creep
 
2014-05-13 01:18:12 AM  

Herr Docktor Heinrich Wisenheimer: Tyrion said "I wish I had enough poison for the whole pack of you".

That exactly how libertarians feel about the poor.


Not really, I'm a libertarian (lowercase l, no affiliation with conservatism in any way, i'm actually fairly liberal now) and I'm on the OWS side of the road. Pro-union, pro-choice, pro-science, I even propose the most comprehensive gun control solution I've seen ANYWHERE.

Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. Not all of us view taxes, social services, or economic equality as affronts to that. Do I want to be able to buy a TAR-21 at Walmart and a blister pack of 5.56mm suppressors? Yep. Do I think jumping through some hoops to prove to society that I am trustworthy with such and won't go on a killing spree or otherwise misuse the weapon is tyranny? Nope. Do I think the Department of Education is a massive failure? No. Do I think it could use some cost and labor controls that may be unpopular with the unions yet have shown to help improve the efficacy of public education? Sure.

Don't confuse Rand with libertarianism, or reason magazine for that matter. The adjective you're looking for the brand that particular idiocy is objectivism. A good litmus test is to ask people who claim to be libertarian who Romney was more alike: John Galt or James Taggart. If they answer Galt, they're objectivists. Taggart? They're actually educated with a mind that doesn't like being corralled, and could legitimately be considered to be common sense libertarians. They might still hold on to stupid shiat like going back to the Gold or Silver standard, but they can probably be dissuaded of such retarded notions with flowcharts and powerpoint presentations. Objectivists not so much, they're teabaggers through and through.
 
2014-05-13 01:29:26 AM  
I've seen this sort of trial before.


i65.photobucket.com
 
2014-05-13 01:31:26 AM  

iq_in_binary: Herr Docktor Heinrich Wisenheimer: Tyrion said "I wish I had enough poison for the whole pack of you".

That exactly how libertarians feel about the poor.


Not really, I'm a libertarian (lowercase l, no affiliation with conservatism in any way, i'm actually fairly liberal now) and I'm on the OWS side of the road. Pro-union, pro-choice, pro-science, I even propose the most comprehensive gun control solution I've seen ANYWHERE.


So just curious, how do you feel any of those things could exist without a strong centralized government passing laws? Who's going to support any of that shiat if they don't have to?
 
2014-05-13 01:52:40 AM  
So yeah I just got around to reading the article. Seriously that shiat read like a fifth grade book report with a little derp at the end to tie it to the supposed subject. The fat man would piss in your mouth if he read the crap.
 
2014-05-13 01:52:58 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: DamnYankees: SilentStrider: The Tyrells are breathing an inward sigh of relief that Tyrion might not go down for the crime their Grandmother committed.

1) How would the Tyrell's know Olenna did it? Margaery has an inkling, but why would anyone else?

I'm not sure how it happened in the books, but in the show Olenna flat out tells Margaery she did it.


The books never did reveal who was behind the poisoning... and granted it's been a while, but I remember thinking from certain details that Tyrion might have even been the intended victim.

And Olenna being responsible still makes no sense. They spent months learning how to manipulate and control Joffery, so they could kill him off just when Margaery was one dicking away from being Queen for real.
 
2014-05-13 01:53:35 AM  

iq_in_binary: Don't confuse Rand with libertarianism, or reason magazine for that matter. The adjective you're looking for the brand that particular idiocy is objectivism. A good litmus test is to ask people who claim to be libertarian who Romney was more alike: John Galt or James Taggart. If they answer Galt, they're objectivists. Taggart? They're actually educated with a mind that doesn't like being corralled, and could legitimately be considered to be common sense libertarians. They might still hold on to stupid shiat like going back to the Gold or Silver standard, but they can probably be dissuaded of such retarded notions with flowcharts and powerpoint presentations. Objectivists not so much, they're teabaggers through and through.


sorry, but the LP was taken over by the Rand and Reason types a long time ago. It's fine that you believe what you believe, but that is not what the modern day LP believes.
 
2014-05-13 01:56:39 AM  

iq_in_binary: Herr Docktor Heinrich Wisenheimer: Tyrion said "I wish I had enough poison for the whole pack of you".

That exactly how libertarians feel about the poor.

Not really, I'm a libertarian (lowercase l, no affiliation with conservatism in any way, i'm actually fairly liberal now) and I'm on the OWS side of the road. Pro-union, pro-choice, pro-science, I even propose the most comprehensive gun control solution I've seen ANYWHERE.

Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. Not all of us view taxes, social services, or economic equality as affronts to that. Do I want to be able to buy a TAR-21 at Walmart and a blister pack of 5.56mm suppressors? Yep. Do I think jumping through some hoops to prove to society that I am trustworthy with such and won't go on a killing spree or otherwise misuse the weapon is tyranny? Nope. Do I think the Department of Education is a massive failure? No. Do I think it could use some cost and labor controls that may be unpopular with the unions yet have shown to help improve the efficacy of public education? Sure.

Don't confuse Rand with libertarianism, or reason magazine for that matter. The adjective you're looking for the brand that particular idiocy is objectivism. A good litmus test is to ask people who claim to be libertarian who Romney was more alike: John Galt or James Taggart. If they answer Galt, they're objectivists. Taggart? They're actually educated with a mind that doesn't like being corralled, and could legitimately be considered to be common sense libertarians. They might still hold on to stupid shiat like going back to the Gold or Silver standard, but they can probably be dissuaded of such retarded notions with flowcharts and powerpoint presentations. Objectivists not so much, they're teabaggers through and through.

Please refer to my previous remarks on the subject of the Scots.
 
2014-05-13 01:56:45 AM  
In the court of political philosophy, Libertarianism is on trial for being a dwarf.
 
2014-05-13 01:57:55 AM  

Hickory-smoked: And Olenna being responsible still makes no sense. They spent months learning how to manipulate and control Joffery, so they could kill him off just when Margaery was one dicking away from being Queen for real.


It makes complete sense, in the TV version at least, since it now appears Margaery is set to be queen again, only to someone who won't have her killed or tortured.
 
2014-05-13 01:57:55 AM  

Darth Macho: In the court of political philosophy, Libertarianism is on trial for being a dwarfHodor.

 
2014-05-13 01:59:52 AM  
Libertarianism is Hodor wondering why no one takes his aspirations to the Iron Throne seriously.
 
2014-05-13 02:05:03 AM  

Hickory-smoked: TuteTibiImperes: DamnYankees: SilentStrider: The Tyrells are breathing an inward sigh of relief that Tyrion might not go down for the crime their Grandmother committed.

1) How would the Tyrell's know Olenna did it? Margaery has an inkling, but why would anyone else?

I'm not sure how it happened in the books, but in the show Olenna flat out tells Margaery she did it.

The books never did reveal who was behind the poisoning... and granted it's been a while, but I remember thinking from certain details that Tyrion might have even been the intended victim.

And Olenna being responsible still makes no sense. They spent months learning how to manipulate and control Joffery, so they could kill him off just when Margaery was one dicking away from being Queen for real.




If they came in, set up a marriage for Margaery, and promptly killed off the abusive little shiat and asked to marry his sweet little brother who is now king, it would be a bit obvious. And handling an idiot like Joffrey, while dangerous, wasn't exactly a challenge for a girl the Queen of Thorns had been grooming her entire life for politics. But Olenna sure as fark wasn't about to let her beloved protege get knocked around by a sociopath, or have Loras become a kingslayer if he witnessed it
And the timing probably wasn't all that flexible since they needed Sansa (since Baelish was involved) to be around, and needed it all to be very public. They also knew the Lannisters needed them too much. Joffrey dying before the wedding night means Margaery is still officially a virgin and the Tyrells look even less suspicious, and the Lannisters will still approve the marriage to Tommen because they can't afford to turn it down.
 
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