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(Independent)   After 500 years, the wreck of Columbus' Santa Maria has been found. Still no cure for small pox   (independent.co.uk) divider line 83
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6801 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 May 2014 at 4:54 AM (15 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-12 11:02:18 PM
Dafuq is this then?
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-05-12 11:14:26 PM

ParallelUniverseParking: Dafuq is this then?
[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x562]


I want to say something witty and sarcastic about autism, but frankly I'm just too tired.

Does anyone get smallpox vaccine anymore?  That shiat is literally extinct in the wild.
 
2014-05-12 11:42:10 PM
For a fun timeline comparison, Henry VIII was 1 yr old when the Santa Maria went down.

/csb
 
2014-05-12 11:52:13 PM

dj_bigbird: For a fun timeline comparison, Henry VIII was 1 yr old when the Santa Maria went down.

/csb


Santa Maria must have went down quite a few times if she was married to Joseph and still a virgin.
 
2014-05-13 12:01:44 AM

Ambivalence: Does anyone get smallpox vaccine anymore?  That shiat is literally extinct in the wild.


Military personnel going overseas still do.
 
2014-05-13 12:24:38 AM

Ambivalence: ParallelUniverseParking: Dafuq is this then?
[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x562]

I want to say something witty and sarcastic about autism, but frankly I'm just too tired.

Does anyone get smallpox vaccine anymore?  That shiat is literally extinct in the wild.


Mass vaccination ceased about 1970. Now it's just given to people heading out to regions where it's a risk.

I had one as a baby in 1969, but my brother, born in January 1971, did not. But then he he had to get one before being deployed for the Gulf War (along with some other vaxes). It was basically a drug cocktail, but he was too old to contract autism from it.

/rolls eyes at antivaxxers
 
2014-05-13 12:29:46 AM
Oh great. After a decade of hearing about the damned Titanic ad nauseum, now we have this.

The Search For The Santa Maria.
What REALLY Happened To The Santa Maria.
Santa Maria, The TRUE Story.
Santa Maria The Miniseries.
What Columbus Didn't Tell Us.
Shocking Secrets Of The Santa Maria.
 
2014-05-13 12:42:29 AM

TommyymmoT: Oh great. After a decade of hearing about the damned Titanic ad nauseum, now we have this.

The Search For The Santa Maria.
What REALLY Happened To The Santa Maria.
Santa Maria, The TRUE Story.
Santa Maria The Miniseries.
What Columbus Didn't Tell Us.
Shocking Secrets Of The Santa Maria.


Don't forget, Celine Dion will need to sing about it.

/shudder
 
2014-05-13 12:54:48 AM
Christopher Columbus was a really bad captain. Not only did he not discover a passage to China. He totally guessed the circumference of the earth wrong and almost starved his crew.

The argument was never about weather the earth was flat or not. (Ever since ancient times, learned people realized the earth was a sphere.) The question was how big it was.  All the learned men were far closer than Columbus.
 
2014-05-13 12:59:27 AM

Darth_Lukecash: Christopher Columbus was a really bad captain. Not only did he not discover a passage to China. He totally guessed the circumference of the earth wrong and almost starved his crew.

The argument was never about weather the earth was flat or not. (Ever since ancient times, learned people realized the earth was a sphere.) The question was how big it was.  All the learned men were far closer than Columbus.


Yup, he's the epitome of "it's better to be lucky than good." He woefully underprovisioned his crew for a trip to China, where he thought he was going, and everybody who said it was suicide was completely right. He just happened to hit an enormous land mass (well, the islands off an enormous land mass) that nobody in Europe knew about at the time.
 
2014-05-13 01:23:23 AM
Seeing how Columbus committed genocide on a wide scale, let's hope all the evidence is confiscated by the proper authorities and laundered through the proper channels.
 
2014-05-13 01:50:35 AM

Darth_Lukecash: Christopher Columbus was a really bad captain. Not only did he not discover a passage to China. He totally guessed the circumference of the earth wrong and almost starved his crew.

The argument was never about weather the earth was flat or not. (Ever since ancient times, learned people realized the earth was a sphere.) The question was how big it was.  All the learned men were far closer than Columbus.


And yet who's in the history books?

Columbus was a great man at impressing royalty. He was not such a hot navigator, governor, or anything like that. So while he might have been crazy, and wrong, he got results and titles.
 
2014-05-13 02:22:09 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Seeing how Columbus committed genocide on a wide scale, let's hope all the evidence is confiscated by the proper authorities and laundered through the proper channels.


In fairness it was kind of an "ooops! genocide!" instead of an "*evil laugh* have some genocide!".
 
2014-05-13 02:24:01 AM

log_jammin: Marcus Aurelius: Seeing how Columbus committed genocide on a wide scale, let's hope all the evidence is confiscated by the proper authorities and laundered through the proper channels.

In fairness it was kind of an "ooops! genocide!" instead of an "*evil laugh* have some genocide!".


He used to cut your hands off if you didn't pay taxes and make you wear them.

Taxes were based on how much gold he wanted.
 
2014-05-13 02:32:38 AM
doglover: He used to cut your hands off if you didn't pay taxes and make you wear them.

Seems like an unfair proposition. I mean, how do you wear taxes in the first place?
 
2014-05-13 02:57:47 AM

BKITU: doglover: He used to cut your hands off if you didn't pay taxes and make you wear them.

Seems like an unfair proposition. I mean, how do you wear taxes in the first place?


i2.wp.com
 
2014-05-13 03:11:54 AM

doglover: Darth_Lukecash: Christopher Columbus was a really bad captain. Not only did he not discover a passage to China. He totally guessed the circumference of the earth wrong and almost starved his crew.

The argument was never about weather the earth was flat or not. (Ever since ancient times, learned people realized the earth was a sphere.) The question was how big it was.  All the learned men were far closer than Columbus.

And yet who's in the history books?

Columbus was a great man at impressing royalty. He was not such a hot navigator, governor, or anything like that. So while he might have been crazy, and wrong, he got results and titles.


Yep, results win the moment. History is not so kind.
 
2014-05-13 03:13:32 AM

Danger Avoid Death: BKITU: doglover: He used to cut your hands off if you didn't pay taxes and make you wear them.

Seems like an unfair proposition. I mean, how do you wear taxes in the first place?

[i2.wp.com image 614x330]


Am I the only one that thinks it odd that the soundtrack to that commercial ("Midnight Rider" - Allman Bros) features the playing of Duane Allman who died in a motorcycle accident?
 
2014-05-13 05:05:30 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Seeing how Columbus committed genocide on a wide scale, let's hope all the evidence is confiscated by the proper authorities and laundered through the proper channels.


Did he? I thought the genocide came after, brought by the conquistadors in South America and Northern Europeans in North America.
 
2014-05-13 05:11:52 AM

No Catchy Nickname: Marcus Aurelius: Seeing how Columbus committed genocide on a wide scale, let's hope all the evidence is confiscated by the proper authorities and laundered through the proper channels.

Did he? I thought the genocide came after, brought by the conquistadors in South America and Northern Europeans in North America.


Most of the "genocide" was the just bad luck. The Europeans didn't know they were carrying pathogens.
 
2014-05-13 05:21:44 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: No Catchy Nickname: Marcus Aurelius: Seeing how Columbus committed genocide on a wide scale, let's hope all the evidence is confiscated by the proper authorities and laundered through the proper channels.

Did he? I thought the genocide came after, brought by the conquistadors in South America and Northern Europeans in North America.

Most of the "genocide" was the just bad luck. The Europeans didn't know they were carrying pathogens.


Agreed. It was over 300 years before Lister was even born.
 
2014-05-13 05:21:53 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: No Catchy Nickname: Marcus Aurelius: Seeing how Columbus committed genocide on a wide scale, let's hope all the evidence is confiscated by the proper authorities and laundered through the proper channels.

Did he? I thought the genocide came after, brought by the conquistadors in South America and Northern Europeans in North America.

Most of the "genocide" was the just bad luck. The Europeans didn't know they were carrying pathogens.


Certainly that could be said for the deaths from smallpox and so on. But there were also massacres. I'm not well up on the history of the conquest of the Americas, but I am pretty sure I read about the conquistadors carrying out the odd brutal massacre here and there, and then in North America there were the Indian massacres going on into the early 20th century IIRC.
But I don't think Columbus should be left with the responsibility for those.
 
2014-05-13 05:24:13 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: No Catchy Nickname: Marcus Aurelius: Seeing how Columbus committed genocide on a wide scale, let's hope all the evidence is confiscated by the proper authorities and laundered through the proper channels.

Did he? I thought the genocide came after, brought by the conquistadors in South America and Northern Europeans in North America.

Most of the "genocide" was the just bad luck. The Europeans didn't know they were carrying pathogens.


Just to clarify, I'm not really disagreeing with you; I was just puzzled with the claim someone made about Columbus carrying out widespread genocide.
I had never heard such claims before, so I was a little thrown.
 
2014-05-13 05:31:06 AM

ParallelUniverseParking: Dafuq is this then?
[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x562]


Prevention... which is still not a cure.
 
2014-05-13 05:50:51 AM

No Catchy Nickname: Mid_mo_mad_man: No Catchy Nickname: Marcus Aurelius: Seeing how Columbus committed genocide on a wide scale, let's hope all the evidence is confiscated by the proper authorities and laundered through the proper channels.

Did he? I thought the genocide came after, brought by the conquistadors in South America and Northern Europeans in North America.

Most of the "genocide" was the just bad luck. The Europeans didn't know they were carrying pathogens.

Certainly that could be said for the deaths from smallpox and so on. But there were also massacres. I'm not well up on the history of the conquest of the Americas, but I am pretty sure I read about the conquistadors carrying out the odd brutal massacre here and there, and then in North America there were the Indian massacres going on into the early 20th century IIRC.
But I don't think Columbus should be left with the responsibility for those.


Europeans did slaughter a lot of natives but they weren't alone. In what is now Mexico Cortes' Indian allies out numbered his own troops. Even with them he needed a plagues help. No ones hands are clean in the history of the Americas.
 
2014-05-13 05:57:18 AM
i1102.photobucket.com

/obscure?

yuq.me

//obscure?
 
2014-05-13 06:24:28 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: No Catchy Nickname: Mid_mo_mad_man: No Catchy Nickname: Marcus Aurelius: Seeing how Columbus committed genocide on a wide scale, let's hope all the evidence is confiscated by the proper authorities and laundered through the proper channels.

Did he? I thought the genocide came after, brought by the conquistadors in South America and Northern Europeans in North America.

Most of the "genocide" was the just bad luck. The Europeans didn't know they were carrying pathogens.

Certainly that could be said for the deaths from smallpox and so on. But there were also massacres. I'm not well up on the history of the conquest of the Americas, but I am pretty sure I read about the conquistadors carrying out the odd brutal massacre here and there, and then in North America there were the Indian massacres going on into the early 20th century IIRC.
But I don't think Columbus should be left with the responsibility for those.

Europeans did slaughter a lot of natives but they weren't alone. In what is now Mexico Cortes' Indian allies out numbered his own troops. Even with them he needed a plagues help. No ones hands are clean in the history of the Americas.


Except for Bathes With Raccoons, the Iroquois' most famous Hypochondriac.

Hands? Immaculate!
 
2014-05-13 06:27:21 AM

Darth_Lukecash: Christopher Columbus was a really bad captain. Not only did he not discover a passage to China. He totally guessed the circumference of the earth wrong and almost starved his crew.


In fairness, he didn't pull his number completely out of thin air.

He started with a bad estimate by Ptomely that was much smaller than the (remarkably accurate) number long established by Erastosthenes and others and accepted by just about every European scholar of his time. He compounded that by confusing the Roman "mile" with the Arabic "mile" in which his source expressed Ptomely's number. And on top of that, he also believed Eurasia to be much wider than it actually is.

So by compounding ignorance upon error upon ignorance, he came up with a number that fit his agenda.
 
2014-05-13 06:27:28 AM
JonnyBgoode:

/obscure?

Mongo only pawn in game of life.
 
2014-05-13 06:28:01 AM

doglover: Darth_Lukecash: Christopher Columbus was a really bad captain. Not only did he not discover a passage to China. He totally guessed the circumference of the earth wrong and almost starved his crew.

The argument was never about weather the earth was flat or not. (Ever since ancient times, learned people realized the earth was a sphere.) The question was how big it was.  All the learned men were far closer than Columbus.

And yet who's in the history books?

Columbus was a great man at impressing royalty. He was not such a hot navigator, governor, or anything like that. So while he might have been crazy, and wrong, he got results and titles.


Columbus was a really bad human being. Period

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day
 
2014-05-13 06:39:38 AM

TommyymmoT: Oh great. After a decade of hearing about the damned Titanic ad nauseum, now we have this.

The Search For The Santa Maria.
What REALLY Happened To The Santa Maria.
Santa Maria, The TRUE Story.
Santa Maria The Miniseries.
What Columbus Didn't Tell Us.
Shocking Secrets Of The Santa Maria.


Made me laugh....well done.
 
2014-05-13 06:43:00 AM
The Santa Maria could be the most significant Spanish Shipwreck, historically speaking, to ever go down. Other than the Nuestra Senora de Atocha, I can't think of any other wreck more worthy of discovery and salvage.
 
2014-05-13 06:48:03 AM

ParallelUniverseParking: Dafuq is this then?


According to the antivaxxers that is *pure poison*! There never was a problem with smallpox before vaccination started!
 
2014-05-13 06:55:30 AM

Day_Old_Dutchie: Columbus was a really bad human being. Period

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day


Thanks for that... Quite an interesting read...

(Not so) CSB time, sort of...

As a young lad I had a habit of reading (more like devouring) books like encyclopedias and such. I also had a single parent in my dad, an Army E7 who taught me to speak up when I see a problem or a lie... Flash forward to elementary school in Kibler, Arkansas, a little podunk town, where my teacher was starting to teach us about the discovery of the new world. So when she speaks up about Columbus discovering America, my little hand shot up to tell her that she was wrong... He only really discovered the Bahamas, Cuba, Haiti and the like, and that the Vikings had discovered America years earlier...

As I was in a small school in a podunk town, and my reference for the Vikings finding America was at home, I was called a liar and sent to the principal for my troubles... Yes, I received swats for pointing out the teacher was wrong...

So I learned my lesson well that day. Teachers in small podunk towns don't want kids to really learn the truth, they want mindless zombies that would blindly accept their every word... So I kept quiet after that, no matter what whargable they spewed forth...
/CSB?
 
rpl
2014-05-13 07:07:57 AM
Did they find another set of Columbus' remains in the wreck?
 
2014-05-13 07:09:38 AM
Well, I guess there is still hope for flight 370 after all.
 
2014-05-13 07:23:28 AM

Arcturus72: So I learned my lesson well that day. Teachers in small podunk towns don't want kids to really learn the truth, they want mindless zombies that would blindly accept their every word...

Want to do as little work as possible.

FTFY
 
2014-05-13 07:24:03 AM
"Do you see this fine thing? Do you admire the humanity of it? Because the human beings, my son, they believe everything is alive. Not only man and animals. But also water, earth, stone. And also the things from them... like that hair. The man from whom this hair came, he's bald on the other side, because I now own his scalp! That is the way things are.

But the white man, they believe EVERYTHING is dead. Stone, earth, animals. And people! Even their own people! If things keep trying to live, white man will rub them out. That is the difference."

 - Old Lodge Skins
 
2014-05-13 07:49:56 AM

scumshine: "Do you see this fine thing? Do you admire the humanity of it? Because the human beings, my son, they believe everything is alive. Not only man and animals. But also water, earth, stone. And also the things from them... like that hair. The man from whom this hair came, he's bald on the other side, because I now own his scalp! That is the way things are.

But the white man, they believe EVERYTHING is dead. Stone, earth, animals. And people! Even their own people! If things keep trying to live, white man will rub them out. That is the difference."

 - Old Lodge Skins


They're both wrong.
 
2014-05-13 07:54:34 AM

TommyymmoT: Mid_mo_mad_man: No Catchy Nickname: Marcus Aurelius: Seeing how Columbus committed genocide on a wide scale, let's hope all the evidence is confiscated by the proper authorities and laundered through the proper channels.

Did he? I thought the genocide came after, brought by the conquistadors in South America and Northern Europeans in North America.

Most of the "genocide" was the just bad luck. The Europeans didn't know they were carrying pathogens.

Agreed. It was over 300 years before Lister was even born.


In 1763 - also pre-Lister - Europeans knew about how to pass on Smallpox.  http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1088/did-whites-ever-give-na t ive-americans-blankets-infected-with-smallpox
 
2014-05-13 08:09:03 AM

allthesametome: TommyymmoT: Mid_mo_mad_man: No Catchy Nickname: Marcus Aurelius: Seeing how Columbus committed genocide on a wide scale, let's hope all the evidence is confiscated by the proper authorities and laundered through the proper channels.

Did he? I thought the genocide came after, brought by the conquistadors in South America and Northern Europeans in North America.

Most of the "genocide" was the just bad luck. The Europeans didn't know they were carrying pathogens.

Agreed. It was over 300 years before Lister was even born.

In 1763 - also pre-Lister - Europeans knew about how to pass on Smallpox.  http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1088/did-whites-ever-give-na t ive-americans-blankets-infected-with-smallpox


Only a tiny fraction of the native population were around by that time. In fact most were dead before 1600 having never seen the white man.
 
2014-05-13 08:11:15 AM

Day_Old_Dutchie: doglover: Darth_Lukecash: Christopher Columbus was a really bad captain. Not only did he not discover a passage to China. He totally guessed the circumference of the earth wrong and almost starved his crew.

The argument was never about weather the earth was flat or not. (Ever since ancient times, learned people realized the earth was a sphere.) The question was how big it was.  All the learned men were far closer than Columbus.

And yet who's in the history books?

Columbus was a great man at impressing royalty. He was not such a hot navigator, governor, or anything like that. So while he might have been crazy, and wrong, he got results and titles.

Columbus was a really bad human being. Period

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day


By today's standards.
 
2014-05-13 08:15:35 AM
Hope they find his GPS.
 
2014-05-13 08:15:59 AM

Darth_Lukecash: doglover: Darth_Lukecash: Christopher Columbus was a really bad captain. Not only did he not discover a passage to China. He totally guessed the circumference of the earth wrong and almost starved his crew.

The argument was never about weather the earth was flat or not. (Ever since ancient times, learned people realized the earth was a sphere.) The question was how big it was.  All the learned men were far closer than Columbus.

And yet who's in the history books?

Columbus was a great man at impressing royalty. He was not such a hot navigator, governor, or anything like that. So while he might have been crazy, and wrong, he got results and titles.

Yep, results win the moment. History is not so kind.


In addition, he failed many times to impress royalty. It was when the Portuguese gains in Atlantic exploration began to worry Ferdinand and Isabella, that they agreed to his plan. And only after it became apparent that Columbus' project could be financed at no direct cost to the king and queen.

(F. Fernández-Armesto 2006, Pathfinders. A Global History of Exploration: 163-164)
 
2014-05-13 08:34:22 AM

5 star chef of tv dinners: Well, I guess there is still hope for flight 370 after all.



That means only 499 years to go of more searching.  Which is good, I thought they would never find it.
 
2014-05-13 08:37:56 AM

doglover: Darth_Lukecash: Christopher Columbus was a really bad captain. Not only did he not discover a passage to China. He totally guessed the circumference of the earth wrong and almost starved his crew.

The argument was never about weather the earth was flat or not. (Ever since ancient times, learned people realized the earth was a sphere.) The question was how big it was.  All the learned men were far closer than Columbus.

And yet who's in the history books?

Columbus was a great man at impressing royalty. He was not such a hot navigator, governor, or anything like that. So while he might have been crazy, and wrong, he got results and titles.


I read that as "results and titties".

I'm not sure that's wrong.
 
2014-05-13 08:43:27 AM

Ruiizu: The Santa Maria could be the most significant Spanish Shipwreck, historically speaking, to ever go down. Other than the Nuestra Senora de Atocha, I can't think of any other wreck more worthy of discovery and salvage.


But nobody moved
From where they were layin
Cause nobody really cared
 
2014-05-13 08:59:40 AM

Ruiizu: The Santa Maria could be the most significant Spanish Shipwreck, historically speaking, to ever go down. Other than the Nuestra Senora de Atocha, I can't think of any other wreck more worthy of discovery and salvage.


Except pictures in tfa didn't seem to shoe very much was there, and apparently looters have taken a lot since. Sad. :(
 
2014-05-13 09:03:36 AM

ParallelUniverseParking: Dafuq is this then?
[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x562]


That is a vaccine (a preventative), not a cure.
 
2014-05-13 09:04:06 AM
It's probably just a Boeing 777.
 
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