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(Chicago Trib)   GM is the worst car manufacturer in the US, which is like being the worst form of cancer   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 214
    More: Obvious, Nissan Motor Co., United States, worst car manufacturer, General Motors Co., payment protection insurance, automakers, Volkswagen AG, cancers  
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6509 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 May 2014 at 2:08 PM (10 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-13 08:02:50 AM

gweilo8888: Kouvre: [imganuncios.mitula.net image 400x300]

HEY! You apologize to her RIGHT NOW!

/loves my 500
//this particular one isn't mine, but it's the same color

Cute car. Don't listen to the small-is-ugly crowd who're permanently stuck in the 1970s.

/but change her wheels


i'm definitely not a "stuck in the 70s" "small is ugly" guy...fiats just are ugly. your opinion may differ, but there are plenty of small cars i love! i've only owned a couple bigger cars...an isuzu rodeo, a 72 chevy nova 4 door...the rest, compact and sub-compact.

my first car was a 1984 honda crx...awesome little car! my current car is a 2005 scion xb, which i personally think is ugly, but loveable. perhaps fiat owners think similarly of theirs?

but i've driven fiats all over northeast italy and HATED them

Frederf: gweilo8888: bungle_jr: at least they didn't get bought out by scania or peugot, or some other shiatty euro brand like chrysler did with fiat

Referring to any European auto maker as "shiatty" by comparison to any US automaker is hi-diddly-I-LARIOUS! The auto industry operates as follows:

* First tier -- Japanese, manufactured in Japan
* Second tier -- Japanese, manufactured outside Japan
* Third tier -- Western European
* Fifth tier -- American
* Sixth tier -- Korean
* Seventh tier -- The rest of the world

/there is no fourth tier, because to say America was fourth would be to overstate its excellence.

I would rather have 1 Hyundai Elantra than 100 Mitsubishis. Korean is so much better than it used to be.


this
we will likely buy a new car this year...or within the next year or so...stupid scions and compact fords just are too damn reliable and fuel efficient to rush into it (i have a scion xb, old style, 2005, my wife has a 2007 focus)

but our top choices include 2 hyundai models, along with vw and subaru...think i have the wife talked into the appearance/reliability of an outback, but test driving will be a factor
 
2014-05-13 09:57:22 AM

Erom: I've put a ton of miles on my Chevy Cruze. Best car i've ever owned, not a single issue. Plus i'm happy to keep as much of those dollars as possible in North America and support a traditional American brand.

P.S. the misleading headline is sad subby.


I miss mine, the damn dealers in the area are marking up used cruzes ridiculously
 
2014-05-13 10:02:34 AM

hiker9999: I've still got my 2004 Mazda6 (19200 miles). Other than the fact the car itself is heavy, it's a fun ride. And I picked up a 2014 Mustang as well.


...and has the turning radius of the moon. For reals, I remember test driving that car, but after a seven point turn to get it out of the parking lot I suggested that we look at something else.
 
2014-05-13 10:39:29 AM

gweilo8888: bungle_jr: at least they didn't get bought out by scania or peugot, or some other shiatty euro brand like chrysler did with fiat

Referring to any European auto maker as "shiatty" by comparison to any US automaker is hi-diddly-I-LARIOUS! The auto industry operates as follows:

* First tier -- Japanese, manufactured in Japan
* Second tier -- Japanese, manufactured outside Japan
* Third tier -- Western European
* Fifth tier -- American
* Sixth tier -- Korean
* Seventh tier -- The rest of the world

/there is no fourth tier, because to say America was fourth would be to overstate its excellence.


This is wrong, IMHO.  (I assume we are talking reliability here.)

First Tier: Honda/Acura/Toyota/Scion/Lexus/Subaru
Second Tier: Everybody else (available in the US; for instance, Chinese made vehicles with Chinese nameplates are in general inferior than anything sold in the US).

Nissan/Infiniti, Mazda, and Mitsubishi (and Isuzu and Suzuki, although those two have pulled out of the US market) are no better than the Detroit Three or the Europeans.  The difference between US built and Japanese built vehicles from the first tier companies is minimal to nonexistent as well (there may have been differences a decade or two ago, but no longer).
 
2014-05-13 10:59:36 AM

Boxcutta: hiker9999: I've still got my 2004 Mazda6 (19200 miles). Other than the fact the car itself is heavy, it's a fun ride. And I picked up a 2014 Mustang as well.

...and has the turning radius of the moon. For reals, I remember test driving that car, but after a seven point turn to get it out of the parking lot I suggested that we look at something else.


Well, yeah.  That too. After nearly a decade, I've gotten used to having to pretend I was docking an oil tanker when parking.
 
2014-05-13 12:01:07 PM
I have an 04 Ion, one of the cars that's been recalled. I haven't bothered taking it in because I figure it will take those idiots more than a day to fix the problem, and  I already replaced the goddamn ignition a couple of years ago. That should have been enough to solve the problem.

I figure that, if I take it in, the stupid bastards at the dealership will need to keep it
overnight, so screw them. I hope I DO get into a fatal crash, just to spite them!
 
2014-05-13 12:02:19 PM
I'm currently using a brand new Buick loaner from the dealership while my wallet is getting assaulted... I mean my swedish sedan is in for the 60,000 service. While the exterior styling of the Buick is not bad, the interior outright sucks. Short and narrow seats not suitable for anyone over 6', unusable cup holders, a display and stereo that eat up all of the dash space and cheap plastic finishes all over the cabin.  It looks put together by a marketing committee and then value engineered within an inch of its life. I wonder who they're trying to appeal to with this car?

/SAAB, never forget.
 
2014-05-13 01:02:55 PM

Frederf: I would rather have 1 Hyundai Elantra than 100 Mitsubishis. Korean is so much better than it used to be.


Well, there's no accounting for taste. I've owned Korean within the last ten years, and I've owned Mitsubishi within the last ten years. The two were in completely different classes.The Kia was falling to pieces within a couple of years and barely made it to 100k, where other than some panel dings and a small hole in the driver's seat where it rubbed every time I got in, the Mitsubishi looked almost new at 160k, and the engine was as strong as the day it left the factory.

LazyMedia: Yeah, lumping British, French and Italian cars in with German cars is silly; Korean cars are FAR more reliable than most of the non-German European cars, and not really less reliable than the Germans these days. You can't even really make a broad statement about British cars -- Minis built by BMW are much more reliable than Jags and Rovers built by Tata.


British cars -- what are those? The UK doesn't have an auto industry any more, unless you count overseas-brands-but-assembled-in-the-UK as British. As for French and Italian, Renault and Fiat are far more reliable than anything I've seen from Korea.

Geotpf: This is wrong, IMHO.  (I assume we are talking reliability here.)

First Tier: Honda/Acura/Toyota/Scion/Lexus/Subaru
Second Tier: Everybody else (available in the US; for instance, Chinese made vehicles with Chinese nameplates are in general inferior than anything sold in the US).

Nissan/Infiniti, Mazda, and Mitsubishi (and Isuzu and Suzuki, although those two have pulled out of the US market) are no better than the Detroit Three or the Europeans.  The difference between US built and Japanese built vehicles from the first tier companies is minimal to nonexistent as well (there may have been differences a decade or two ago, but no longer).


Reliability, build quality (closely related), and technology.

Nissan / Infinity, Mazda, and Mitsubishi are leagues ahead of Detroit's crap. (I should know, two of my last three vehicles were a Mitsubishi and a Mazda). And if you can't tell the difference, well... you're deluded. US quality isn't even up to Japanese-built-in-the-US quality, let alone Japanese-built-in-Japan quality. And by and large, the tech of US cars lags even further behind. The money here goes into making them bigger, exterior styling, and interior gimmicks, not into the tech that actually counts for drivability.
 
2014-05-13 02:40:40 PM

gweilo8888: British cars -- what are those? The UK doesn't have an auto industry any more,


Not in the midrange market
 
2014-05-13 06:13:47 PM

LazyMedia: Frederf: gweilo8888: bungle_jr: at least they didn't get bought out by scania or peugot, or some other shiatty euro brand like chrysler did with fiat

Referring to any European auto maker as "shiatty" by comparison to any US automaker is hi-diddly-I-LARIOUS! The auto industry operates as follows:

* First tier -- Japanese, manufactured in Japan
* Second tier -- Japanese, manufactured outside Japan
* Third tier -- Western European
* Fifth tier -- American
* Sixth tier -- Korean
* Seventh tier -- The rest of the world

/there is no fourth tier, because to say America was fourth would be to overstate its excellence.

I would rather have 1 Hyundai Elantra than 100 Mitsubishis. Korean is so much better than it used to be.

Yeah, lumping British, French and Italian cars in with German cars is silly; Korean cars are FAR more reliable than most of the non-German European cars, and not really less reliable than the Germans these days. You can't even really make a broad statement about British cars -- Minis built by BMW are much more reliable than Jags and Rovers built by Tata.




Lumping any cars into any group like this is just a shortcut, preferred by angry idiots, in lieu of actual analysis.

The modern automobile is an appliance, and the difference between any particular brand of similarly priced vehicle is nothing compared to the difference in a modern vehicle and one made 25 years ago.

Do the scheduled maintenance, change the oil every 10000 miles or so, and you'll likely get tired of it long before it dies.. Like I said, I'm the owner of an early 00s cavalier, arguably one of the worst non-Chrysler vehicles in the last 20 years, and it won't die, despite my halfassed maintenance, and general neglect.
 
2014-05-13 08:07:09 PM

dforkus: I'm the owner of an early 00s cavalier, arguably one of the worst non-Chrysler vehicles in the last 20 years, and it won't die, despite my halfassed maintenance, and general neglect.


I can help you with that, sell it to a team running in the 24 hours of lemons
 
2014-05-13 08:08:02 PM
At least they're making an effort to recall their vehicles.  Still farking sad.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2014/03/26/automakers-with- th e-lowest-and-highest-recall-rates/
 
2014-05-13 09:02:26 PM

loonatic112358: Not in the midrange market

Sorry, but no. Aston is kind of Aston, kind of Ford. Bentley is really Volkswagen. Jaguar and Land Rover are Tata. Lotus is Proton. MG is SAIC Motor. Mini and Rolls are BMW.  Vauxhall is GM. That only leaves niche brands like Ariel, Caterham, McLaren, Morgan, Noble, and TVR, none of whom has any actual impact on the market.

As I said, Britain doesn't really have an auto industry any more.

dforkus: Lumping any cars into any group like this is just a shortcut, preferred by angry idiots, in lieu of actual analysis.

The modern automobile is an appliance, and the difference between any particular brand of similarly priced vehicle is nothing compared to the difference in a modern vehicle and one made 25 years ago.

Do the scheduled maintenance, change the oil every 10000 miles or so, and you'll likely get tired of it long before it dies.. Like I said, I'm the owner of an early 00s cavalier, arguably one of the worst non-Chrysler vehicles in the last 20 years, and it won't die, despite my halfassed maintenance, and general neglect.


Responding to posts like this without providing any citation (even personal experience) is just a shortcut, preferred by angry idiots, in lieu of actual analysis.

I have had multiple vehicles (only Korean and American ones, though) fail to reach even 120k without major, fundamental problems that would cost more to repair than the car was worth, and I look after my cars religiously, performing oil changes at 3,000 miles or three months (unless the manufacturer recommends less often).

None of my cars has ever been crashed or mistreated (unless you count a sub-1mph rear-on nudge into another vehicle's bumper to be a "crash", I've done that one single time with the very first car I ever owned, and of course I've had the occasional idiot open their door into my car.) Nor have any of my friends' American or Korean vehicles done any better than my own experiences. Mine and my friends' Japanese and European vehicles, though, have all gone well past 120k and had no significant issues.
 
2014-05-13 10:13:13 PM

gweilo8888: loonatic112358: Not in the midrange market

Sorry, but no. Aston is kind of Aston, kind of Ford. Bentley is really Volkswagen. Jaguar and Land Rover are Tata. Lotus is Proton. MG is SAIC Motor. Mini and Rolls are BMW.  Vauxhall is GM. That only leaves niche brands like Ariel, Caterham, McLaren, Morgan, Noble, and TVR, none of whom has any actual impact on the market.

As I said, Britain doesn't really have an auto industry any more.

dforkus: Lumping any cars into any group like this is just a shortcut, preferred by angry idiots, in lieu of actual analysis.

The modern automobile is an appliance, and the difference between any particular brand of similarly priced vehicle is nothing compared to the difference in a modern vehicle and one made 25 years ago.

Do the scheduled maintenance, change the oil every 10000 miles or so, and you'll likely get tired of it long before it dies.. Like I said, I'm the owner of an early 00s cavalier, arguably one of the worst non-Chrysler vehicles in the last 20 years, and it won't die, despite my halfassed maintenance, and general neglect.

Responding to posts like this without providing any citation (even personal experience) is just a shortcut, preferred by angry idiots, in lieu of actual analysis.

I have had multiple vehicles (only Korean and American ones, though) fail to reach even 120k without major, fundamental problems that would cost more to repair than the car was worth, and I look after my cars religiously, performing oil changes at 3,000 miles or three months (unless the manufacturer recommends less often).

None of my cars has ever been crashed or mistreated (unless you count a sub-1mph rear-on nudge into another vehicle's bumper to be a "crash", I've done that one single time with the very first car I ever owned, and of course I've had the occasional idiot open their door into my car.) Nor have any of my friends' American or Korean vehicles done any better than my own experiences. Mine and my friends' Japanese and Europ ...




Well I guess that settles that then, could I offer that my wife had an 04 jetty that lived and died within the ongoing lifespan of my cavalier....

This is what this boils down to, people claiming that their particular anecdote represents reality, and anyone else's does not..

It's too bad that folks haven't been keeping statistics about the average life of vehicles, and how the initial and long term quality of cars, regardless of brand has risen dramatically, regardless of brand, over the last thirty years.. It's too bad that this data, as opposed to our anecdotes, aren't available via a google search...

//if you are change your oil more than once every 6k you are a sucker
 
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