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(Chicago Trib)   GM is the worst car manufacturer in the US, which is like being the worst form of cancer   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 214
    More: Obvious, Nissan Motor Co., United States, worst car manufacturer, General Motors Co., payment protection insurance, automakers, Volkswagen AG, cancers  
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6522 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 May 2014 at 2:08 PM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-12 04:24:25 PM  
jaybeezey
They may have paid the loan back but tax payers still ate $11billion when the govt finally cut and ran from GM.
So GM lives to fight another day. I can't speak to what the article is about since I'm not a parts supplier to GM. However, I think they are doing some good things with some of their newer models.
I hope they can learn from past mistakes, but it doesn't seem likely.


In the mid-80's a decision was made that they were in the business of making money. Somewhere between 1986 and 2008 making cars was a random sideline.

Toyota and Honda, seemed like they were in the business of making improved cars and making money, Ford made great cars that for some strange reason were not available in the US. GM seemed to be more concerned with how to make more money for the next quarter.

\Not sure if bailing them out was the right choice, but maybe it saved the economy.
\\When will Inbev start to fail?
 
2014-05-12 04:26:21 PM  

Kahabut: LazyMedia: Kahabut: LazyMedia: One bit of good news for GM. When the list of car makers was expanded to include the three German auto companies, which have a far less significant market share in the U.S., suppliers said Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen AG were even harder to deal with.

See, the krauts are bigger jerks to their suppliers than Government Motors even. Germans!

/BMW did well on the survey, because they are jolly Bavarians.

BMW did well because (for the most part) they make really nice cars, out of really nice bits.  Then they service it properly and correctly.

Over 1million miles on BMW cars (3 of them).  I <3 me a BMW.  Comfortable, fast and tough.  What else do you need in a car?

The story isn't about customer service; it's about how they relate to their suppliers.

BMWs are fun cars, but not particularly good value for money. They're not super reliable and they are VERY expensive to buy and maintain. If you want to spend the money for that kind of car, they're probably as good as a Lexus or Audi in terms of value for money, but they're no Toyota or Honda.

I hear this a lot from people that don't own BMWs.

On a dollar for dollar basis, I have no doubt other cars come out ahead.  But let me just cover this little bit of bullshiat.  "bmws cost more to maintain".  More than what?  I have a MILLION miles, spread across 3 BMWs.  I paid less than $10,000 for each car when I bought it.  I pay roughly $1000/year for service, which includes tires/brakes.  I think you'd be hard pressed to find similar outcomes with anything other than a Toyota.  And while you're at it, find me a 400hp Toyota, or honda, with 4 doors and room for adults in the back seat.  Good luck.

Now, I have also owned several other cars, ford, mazda, nissan, toyota.  Most of these were cheaper to buy, and more expensive to keep running than the BMWs I prefer.  It could be I just have bad taste/luck in cars, but in my experience (which is obviously not diverse enough to be ...


This. We've owned 7, and they've been remarkably reliable. Much cheaper to keep running than the Subaru or Nissan we owned. If you get a 2wd inline-6 or 4 banger built before, say, 2005, they're easy to work on too.

And a CSB tying this in to the GM theme: I do some racing, in a 20 year old BMW. A long time friend races an F-body (Camaro/Firebird) of similar vintage. He told me once a few years ago, "You BMW guys drive me nuts. You beat the crap out of your cars all season, all you ever do is change the oil, and they never break. I'm thrilled if I can make it through a weekend without anything breaking."
 
2014-05-12 04:28:27 PM  

LazyMedia: mike_d85: LazyMedia: Flargan: LazyMedia: Chinese people would rather own a clapped out used Buick than a new Chinese-made car.

I think it is closer to "Many Chinese people are accustomed to Bikes, Scooters, and Public transit".

It can take a few generations to create a car-culture.

No, I've read that the cars they're currently making in China just suck. Really unreliable, to the point of making Buick seem like Toyota in comparison. There are already more than 130 million cars in China.

So, slightly below average cars seem like slightly above average?
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=iqsBrand&su b ject=iqs">http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=i qsBrand&sub ject=iqs

I'm always reading articles about the supposed reliability of American cars these days, but I never hear any anecdotal evidence of it. Could be confirmation bias, but on these car threads, you'll get dozens of people biatching about their POS unreliable American cars and singing the praises of Toyota and Honda, and very few saying anything different.

My experience was with a PT Cruiser. Bought new in 2003, had it for 10 years, had a few problems that needed repair like an engine control chip. Nothing really good about it other than the looks and ability to haul stuff; it drove like crap out of the box and tended to eat brake pads, tires and gasoline (25 mpg). Last year it started using a lot of oil, and leaking radiator fluid. Turned out the engine block had cracked at 90,000 miles. On the other hand, we bought a Honda Civic new in 1995. Fun to drive, insanely good mileage. Never had anything wrong with it other than scheduled maintenance for 15 years; eventually had to replace the air conditioning condenser. Drove it for 140,000 miles and sold it earlier this year as a reliable runner.

I dunno who fills out those J.D. Power questionnaires, but their experience doesn't track anything that actual people tell me.


If I remember right it's based on actual service numbers from repair centers themselves.  It's the NUMBER of repairs, not the SEVERITY of the repairs.  I remember specifically that it doesn't include tire and brake wear.
 
2014-05-12 04:30:13 PM  
Never had a problem with GM vehicles. Maybe I've just been lucky.

'67 Camaro (crashed into bridge abutment)
<brief interlude with Datsun 200- sold at 230K miles>
'82 LeMans (sold at 108K miles)
'88 Cavalier (sold at 160K miles)
<brief interlude with Ford Ranger- sold at 100K miles>
'92 Lumina (sold at 140K miles)
'97 Park Avenue (still have)
<brief interlude with inherited Ford Van- traded in at 230K miles>
'04 LeSabre (still have)

The Park Avenue is the best car I've ever driven- including the Lincoln Executive Series. Smooth, comfortable. Solid, dependable V-6. Power everything. Heads-up display. Great car.

Next vehicle will be whichever manufacturer sells a truck or SUV with all the bells and whistles (specifically including HUD) I have on the Park Avenue AND AWD/4WD, 4-wheel indendent suspension. The leading contenders at the moment are BMW X5, Lexus RX350, GMC Acadia. I'd love to have a Subaru or the Toyota Venza, but they don't come with the heads-up display.
 
2014-05-12 04:31:55 PM  
Gm did make some good vehicles but not very recently. I had, and still have mind you, a 95 chevy s10 with the 4.3l v6. Damn thing is a tank. properly maintained and im at 245,000 ish miles and never been down for other than routine maint. That said when I decided to buy different cars I went with Ford Current vehicke is a 2010 F150 and providing I get the same life out of it I did with the chevy I will be around 65 when I look to replace.
By then I may say fark it and just stay home
 
2014-05-12 04:36:17 PM  

packman_jon: Anyone RTFA?


Suppliers gave GM low marks on all kinds of key measures, including its overall trustworthiness, its communication skills, and its protection of intellectual property.

So basically, their Tier 1 suppliers (the firms that sell parts directly to GM) hate them.


.. And that is because GM is like Walmart..

GM : F U .. give us a 5% discount a year over year

Tier  : Uh.. lemme check on that - sub suppliers, we need to offer 5% to GM

Subs : We can't do that, we are barely making anything on these knudler valves now!

Tier :  Hi GM? yeah , there is no way we can do that, let us explai...

GM : F U you effin worms!!  Give us the discount or we'll cut you out of everything.

Tier : Subs, give us the discount or we'l cut you out of everything.. oh and have 5000 conference calls with GM where they can scream at you maggots..

In Toyota world is goes like this.

 Toyota : Hello, what can we do to reduce costs this part?

 Tier - Uh.. wait .. what?  Um, we aren't making much at all on this now.

 Toyota: We understand, but could you share with us your margins?

 Tier : I guess.. we make 11%

 Toyota : Ok, if we send in our team of process experts and work with you to maintain that margin but lower overall costs through a VA/VE effort would that be acceptable?

 Tier :  Who is this you sick bastard..

/ In the GM supply chain
// Fark GM with a glowing nuclear fuel rod.. right in the cornhole
/// Fark 'em repeatedly
 
2014-05-12 04:58:17 PM  

WhyteRaven74: BTW GM's issues with suppliers go way back. You GM acting like it was a crime for suppliers to make a profit so suppliers were trying to figure out how to design and make parts for what little GM was willing to pay for them. And when companies like Honda and Toyota showed up to make cars in the US some of the suppliers couldn't run fast enough to bid for those deals. I know some suppliers when they got new deals dropped GM like a hot potato. And this is a couple decades ago, GM management hasn't changed since then.


I've been privileged to listen to an engineer who is working on a project for Ford (of course I didn't get specific details, he wouldn't leak that) and a former GM underwriter, and basically what I got was the technology for Chevy has been behind everybody else for decades.  So, I believe you.  I see a big difference between my last Chevy van and my recent Ford, yet same year models with years apart.  It took years for Chevy to catch up to the rest of industry for having hidden antennas, and that is simple stuff.
 
2014-05-12 05:08:16 PM  

Wenchmaster: Next vehicle will be whichever manufacturer sells a truck or SUV with all the bells and whistles (specifically including HUD) I have on the Park Avenue AND AWD/4WD, 4-wheel indendent suspension. The leading contenders at the moment are BMW X5, Lexus RX350, GMC Acadia. I'd love to have a Subaru or the Toyota Venza, but they don't come with the heads-up display.


I just saw a Nissan Maxima commercial where I thought they said they have AWD.  It was news to me and I haven't gotten to research it yet.
 
2014-05-12 05:09:19 PM  
I got 40 thousand miles out of my last car a chevy cruze, picked it up with 7500 miles

.
.
.

.
.
.
.
.
wrecked at 4700 ish and totaled by insurance
 
2014-05-12 05:14:21 PM  
loonatic112358
I got 40 thousand miles out of my last car a chevy cruze, picked it up with 7500 miles
wrecked at 4700 ish and totaled by insurance


Are all of the forward gears broken?
 
2014-05-12 05:23:23 PM  

Enemabag Jones: Are all of the forward gears broken?


There was a distinct lack of traction due to the thickness of the rubber road gripping surface not being changed within the recommended parameters


the results were that the passenger side rear wheel became a drivers side object, and I received a bill to clean up the mess I made on the county toll road
 
2014-05-12 05:31:05 PM  
loonatic112358
There was a distinct lack of traction due to the thickness of the rubber road gripping surface not being changed within the recommended parameters
the results were that the passenger side rear wheel became a drivers side object, and I received a bill to clean up the mess I made on the county toll road


It was a joke about the typo on the milage reading. Good answer too.
 
2014-05-12 05:33:22 PM  

Enemabag Jones: It was a joke about the typo on the milage reading. Good answer too.


I missed my own typo, leaving farkers to do the math, and they never expect math


All in All I just made another knick on the wall
 
2014-05-12 05:43:36 PM  
Been in the Car business all my life. Have driven at least a dozen Fleet cars from my co. over the years from the Big 3. out of all of them at the time the Plymouth Acclaims were very reliable with nary a problem. The std Olds Ciera later was GM's bread and butter and had no problems. Last Ford I drove was a Mercury Monarch in the 80's that was OK too. Doing Fleet work for the rental car co's, & Lease returns for many others I never developed a Favorite. If you work with cars all the time, you just don't put the Value on them that most people do. The last several years we were heavily involved with MB and BMW, OK but Pricey. I look more at the Inside since that's where you ARE all the time, not Outside so that's the most important. I guess you have to like the European styling inside but they don't do that much for me. Right now I think the Koreans are eating everyone else's Lunch. Just don't care for Nissans. I think I looked at too many of them over the years, that's when I saw that Infiniti's were just glorified Maximas. Hondas, everyone wants them so they cost more than Toyota & Nissan for the same stuff. Toyota is OK but doesn't excite me in particular. I bought my Hyundai Sonata in 2010 after at least a year of comparing Brand/Features/Price. I fully expect it to last me the full 10yrs since I have only 38K on it now. The new Kia's coming out now are just Amazing for the price.
 
2014-05-12 05:49:55 PM  

Lapdance: I bought my Hyundai Sonata in 2010 after at least a year of comparing Brand/Features/Price. I fully expect it to last me the full 10yrs since I have only 38K on it now. The new Kia's coming out now are just Amazing for the price.


If you don't mind styling that looks like they just randomly copied bits off other companies with real designers, and you don't mind build quality that disintegrates almost as quickly as you look at it, Kia and Hyundai are awesome.

/owned a Kia
//dash turned into a pretzel under normal sunlight, and stayed that way
 
2014-05-12 06:20:56 PM  

bungle_jr: vudukungfu: bungle_jr: fyi, they paid it back

FYI they should NEVER HAVE GOTTEN IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

They failed. They failed be cause they SUCKASS and they deserved to die DIE DIE

They should have been buried under the more successful, less sucky competition.

Fark them in the ass.

i do agree with you
but i still have to give the kudos for getting it paid back...whether they deserved it in the first place or not

at least they didn't get bought out by scania or peugot, or some other shiatty euro brand like chrysler did with fiat


they didn't really pay it back, research it.
 
2014-05-12 06:24:24 PM  
Heh...it's Government Motors. Nuff said.
 
2014-05-12 06:24:41 PM  

Wenchmaster: Never had a problem with GM vehicles. Maybe I've just been lucky.

'67 Camaro (crashed into bridge abutment)
<brief interlude with Datsun 200- sold at 230K miles>
'82 LeMans (sold at 108K miles)
'88 Cavalier (sold at 160K miles)
<brief interlude with Ford Ranger- sold at 100K miles>
'92 Lumina (sold at 140K miles)
'97 Park Avenue (still have)
<brief interlude with inherited Ford Van- traded in at 230K miles>
'04 LeSabre (still have)

The Park Avenue is the best car I've ever driven- including the Lincoln Executive Series. Smooth, comfortable. Solid, dependable V-6. Power everything. Heads-up display. Great car.

Next vehicle will be whichever manufacturer sells a truck or SUV with all the bells and whistles (specifically including HUD) I have on the Park Avenue AND AWD/4WD, 4-wheel indendent suspension. The leading contenders at the moment are BMW X5, Lexus RX350, GMC Acadia. I'd love to have a Subaru or the Toyota Venza, but they don't come with the heads-up display.


My 01 cavalier, which is a terrible car from the standpoint of looks, fit an finish, interior, etc, just runs and runs, doesn't burn a drop of oil, and has needed no expensive repairs.

I kinda wish the thing would die, so i'd have an excuse to get rid of it..


The post bankruptcy stuff like the equinox, malibu, and the new impala are really good products.
 
2014-05-12 07:09:20 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: GM's biggest mistake was getting rid of the Pontiac and Saturn lines. Pontiac gave you a high-performance engine at an afordable price. Saturn gave you a simple, affordable car with a simple, friendly buying experience. Those were about the only good things GM had going for it.

/My Saturn lasted 13 years before it started having major mechanical problems. It was smooth sailing before then and I was a very happy GM customer. I'd happily replace my Saturn with another Saturn if I could.


Saturn lost GM billions of dollars.  Building an entire new dealer network (when they already had about a half a dozen) to sell one, inexpensive, compact car (they added other models later on) was always going to be a money losing proposition, no matter how good the car (or the dealership "experience") was.  At one point they were going to be a subdivision of Oldsmobile (ala Scion for Toyota), which would have made more sense and might have kept Olds from being cut (at least for awhile).  As for their quality, they were better that a Chevy Cavalier but worse than a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic.
 
2014-05-12 07:21:06 PM  
Vehicles I've owned in chronological order
year, make, model, mileage when bought, mileage when disposed of, impressions

1992 subaru loyale. 263k, 275k, she was a tank, but slow and boring. always thought she was going to explode on the interstate
2005 toyota matrix xrs, 34, 125k, loved this car. bought her new, only problems she ever had were my fault
1986 porsche 944, unknown, unknown, I was a bit too ambitious thinking I could restore this one. used her for parts
1988 porsche 944, 2xxk, still own it. she's a lot of fun, but i've had to put a lot of work and money into keeping her running.
1997 subaru outback, 189k, still own it (250k), this vehicle is cursed by Satan himself.
2009 suzuki gs500f, 1, still own it (7200), love the bike. 60 mpg, faster than your hybrid.
2006 bmw 330xi, 62700,still own it (72700), great daily, good on the highway and in the snow.

I've never owned an american car... I grew up with them, and learned to drive with them. I've only ever bought japanese and german (and I've generally had fewer problems)
 
2014-05-12 07:22:59 PM  

COMALite J: TV's Vinnie: To be honest, GM can go f*ck themselves. They are the reason why we no longer have trolley cars as mass transit and why we don't have much in the way of high speed or light rail (they bought up all the trolley companies in the 40's & 50's and then converted over to buses. All made by GM of course).
[www.autogallery.org.ru image 519×274]

And then they have the unmitigated gall to run asshole ads like this to discourage people into riding buses and buy huge gas-guzzlers instead to prove how awesome they are to everyone.
[rebuildingfoundationsblog.files.wordpress.com image 313×400]

And riding a bicycle? I bet you're a commie AND pedophile. Either way, you're a loser. Loser commie pedo!
[images.thetruthaboutcars.com image 571×353]

And let's not forget how they pulled up stakes and left Detroit to fend for itself.
[www.islandbreath.org image 520×393]

So f*ck GM hard! They are like a million Comcasts with a Koch Brothers center.
Don't forget GM's partners in crime in that trolley fiasco: Standard Oil, Philips Petroleum, and Firestone. Of course the GM buses burned Standard's and Philips's diesel and ran on Goodwill tires.

They were convicted of fraud and conspiracy in this. It wasn't just that they bought up the trolley companies. It was that they sent salesmen disguised as agents of a non-existent federal mass transportation agency to cities that had trolleys, showing fake studies to convince them to switch to GM buses. The judge who was apparently in their pocket fined GM $5k and their treasurer H. C. Grossman a whopping $1.

It almost sounds like a plot a cartoon villain would come up with in a movie ― like, oh, say, Judge Doom in Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Gues what? That movie scheme was actually based on this real-life criminal conspiracy. There really was a Red Car in Los Angeles, it really was bought out and dismantled, though not by the Cloverleaf Corporation, but rather by a shell organization for GM et al.


Yeah, but street cars actually sucked compared to buses (buses have a better ride comfort for passengers, have the ability to deviate from a set route, and cost less per mile to operate, especially after the electric companies were forced to sell them so there was less economy of scale) and especially to privately owned cars (which are superior in almost all aspects to any form of private transit-want to go somewhere at 3 am?  Want to carry a week's worth of groceries instead of a day's?).  All the street car companies were losing money long before GM was involved.
 
2014-05-12 07:32:03 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-05-12 07:36:52 PM  

gweilo8888: Lapdance: I bought my Hyundai Sonata in 2010 after at least a year of comparing Brand/Features/Price. I fully expect it to last me the full 10yrs since I have only 38K on it now. The new Kia's coming out now are just Amazing for the price.

If you don't mind styling that looks like they just randomly copied bits off other companies with real designers, and you don't mind build quality that disintegrates almost as quickly as you look at it, Kia and Hyundai are awesome.

/owned a Kia
//dash turned into a pretzel under normal sunlight, and stayed that way


I love my Kia Rio.

That being said, I am currently looking at buying new units to be converted into ambulances, and I am all for the Ram Promaster for a van style chassis. Gas engine with plenty of power, plenty of room for conversion in back, and able to leave room for crew to be comfortable in the front. For less than a smaller Sprinter with no Gasoline option. Also looking at converting our few Modular units we are keeping to Ram 4500 Chassis.
 
2014-05-12 07:51:24 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: That being said, I am currently looking at buying new units to be converted into ambulances, and I am all for the Ram Promaster for a van style chassis. Gas engine with plenty of power, plenty of room for conversion in back, and able to leave room for crew to be comfortable in the front. For less than a smaller Sprinter with no Gasoline option. Also looking at converting our few Modular units we are keeping to Ram 4500 Chassis.



Why Gas, diesel is more efficient, and tends to be more reliable. 

Is the dodge actually taller? I ran into a family that had a sprinter as a personal van and that thing was tall, at least 6' inside
 
2014-05-12 08:05:45 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: realmolo: I won't even get into the economics of buying a new car. Suffice it to say, a new car is pretty much the worst way to spend your money.

Lose 10 grand of their value the minute you drive them off the lot.
 
Really good investment.


Bingo.  If you look in the right places, and aren't all hung up on the color, you can find a deal.  Just be patient.

I found my current truck (2004 Tundra) in 2006 with only 1,400 miles on it.  It belonged to an old farmer who died a few months after he bought it, and it sat until,the estate was settled.  While every single damn car I've ever had has been one form of red or another, except my 1984 Trans Am and 1986 Ranger, which both were black.   Anyway, my Tundra still had the brand new smell even after 18 months, and it still had half the warranty left on it, and not a speck of paint work or other issues.  I managed to pay $21,000 for a more or less brand new truck.  I have yet to buy any new vehicle yet.  I might someday, maybe.
 
2014-05-12 08:11:54 PM  

loonatic112358: Voiceofreason01: bdub77: Every time I step into a Toyota I feel like they built the car just for me

I've never driven a Toyota that I like. They're practical, economical, well designed and incredibly boring.

I'll add, built for people who aren't over 6'4"


And you'd be wrong about that. I used to have a friend who was 6'8", and he had no problem fitting into my Camry, with room to spare. He drove a Nissan Sentra, himself.
 
2014-05-12 08:12:21 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: I love my Kia Rio.


you opinion now officially holds no weight.
The rio is a soulless appliance. Having love for such a thing is like saying that you love your blender.
/had a rio as a rental for a week
//wanted to set it on fire by the time it was over.
 
2014-05-12 08:12:30 PM  

bungle_jr: at least they didn't get bought out by scania or peugot, or some other shiatty euro brand like chrysler did with fiat


Referring to any European auto maker as "shiatty" by comparison to any US automaker is hi-diddly-I-LARIOUS! The auto industry operates as follows:

* First tier -- Japanese, manufactured in Japan
* Second tier -- Japanese, manufactured outside Japan
* Third tier -- Western European
* Fifth tier -- American
* Sixth tier -- Korean
* Seventh tier -- The rest of the world

/there is no fourth tier, because to say America was fourth would be to overstate its excellence.
 
2014-05-12 08:30:24 PM  

Kahabut: I hear this a lot from people that don't own BMWs.

On a dollar for dollar basis, I have no doubt other cars come out ahead. But let me just cover this little bit of bullshiat. "bmws cost more to maintain". More than what? I have a MILLION miles, spread across 3 BMWs. I paid less than $10,000 for each car when I bought it. I pay roughly $1000/year for service, which includes tires/brakes.


You say "$1000/year" as if it's not a lot of money. That's about what we spend on the Durango we bought a couple of years ago, and personally, I think that's outrageous. I would never have bought the thing, if I had known that, in advance. No car should cost that much to maintain, especially one that costs more than $50k, new.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find similar outcomes with anything other than a Toyota.

My Corolla, on the other hand, is 20 years old, and costs me maybe $100/year to maintain. I change the oil every couple of years, I change the brakes when they start to grind, and I change the tires when they're bald. The thing still runs like new.

And while you're at it, find me a 400hp Toyota, or honda, with 4 doors and room for adults in the back seat. Good luck.

Yeah, I suppose if you want to piss your money away, but whatever... it's your money. I just hope you're not one of those Fark Conservatives (tm) who's always biatching about your taxes...
 
2014-05-12 08:47:47 PM  

LazyMedia: I'm always reading articles about the supposed reliability of American cars these days, but I never hear any anecdotal evidence of it. Could be confirmation bias, but on these car threads, you'll get dozens of people biatching about their POS unreliable American cars and singing the praises of Toyota and Honda, and very few saying anything different.


Yeah, I've owned a bunch of Toyotas (3 Camrys and a Corolla), and every one of them was awesome. I've never owned a Honda, but between my parents and I, we've owned a few Nissans, and we have no complaints about them, either.

One of the best cars I ever owned was a 1982 Nissan Maxima, with a Diesel engine, I bought from my parents. It rarely needed service, and got something like 42 miles to the gallon. I was living in Tucson, at the time, and my parents lived in Phoenix. I used to visit them almost every weekend. Also, the price of gas was about 10-20 cents/gallon cheaper in Phoenix, so I'd fill up before I left my parents place, drive to Tucson, drive around all week, and drive back to Phoenix, on the same tank. I never had to pay Tucson prices for fuel.
 
2014-05-12 09:08:22 PM  
With most of there cars built in Mexico can you really call GM a U.S. auto maker?
 
2014-05-12 09:49:09 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: realmolo: I won't even get into the economics of buying a new car. Suffice it to say, a new car is pretty much the worst way to spend your money.

Lose 10 grand of their value the minute you drive them off the lot.
 
Really good investment.


I don't. I buy Subarus.
 
2014-05-12 10:10:25 PM  
I have both gm and ford mostly ford 2 Chevy 2 Pontiacsguess I've been lucky about 15 different cars in about 45 yearsalways having a car and a truck both at the same time never had any majorproblems except replacing tires brakes the usual stuff and have all been Americanmade that everyone hates so muchGM should have keep olds and Pontiac and got rid of Chevy. But that's just my opionMy little Chevy was a great car 69 chevelle
 
2014-05-12 10:31:06 PM  

LazyMedia: The only GM car I've ever owned was a very elderly, totally unrestored 1974 Nova (which I loved). I've rented a few in recent years, and Jesus God, those are some awful cars. The Aveo MUST have been designed by Chinese spies bent on destroying American industry. It was as bad as a '70s Chevette, which was my previous bench mark for worst car in history (including the '80s Hyundai Excel).


Suzuki, actually.
 
2014-05-12 11:10:25 PM  

atomic-age: I don't. I buy Subarus.


OP phrased it poorly. You can hardly expect to lose 10 grand driving it off the lot when you only spent 30 grand in the first place. Buy a hundred grand car, you'll lose ten grand easily. And you still lose a heck of a lot on a cheaper ride when you drive it off the lot, Subaru or not.

Pretty much exactly the same car, same trim, same color, same dealership, everything --

New: $28,629
http://www.duffsubaru.com/new/Subaru/2014-Subaru-Outback-e656cc1a0a0 a0 0de6cd04cd318fe781c.htm

Less than 7k on the clock: $25,790
http://www.duffsubaru.com/used/Subaru/2014-Subaru-Outback-c93875870a 0a 00de49257d44c219ad49.htm

That's almost three grand in the first 6,800 miles (42 cents a mile of depreciation). Precisely 10% depreciation, if you prefer. And that's dealer retail, mind you. The dealer isn't going to buy it off you for dealer retail. Nor is a private party. More likely, you'll be out six to eight grand at least, if you want to shed the thing.

And almost all of that happened before the car even drove off the lot. The moment you got past any state-mandated cooling off period, the value plunged because the car can't be sold as new.
 
2014-05-12 11:27:33 PM  
Not happy in general about corporations getting bailed out, and too big to fail is too big to live.

That said:  In some alternate universe, GM went bust, tens of thousands are out of work and Fox Propaganda is blaming B. Hussein Osama.
 
2014-05-12 11:30:05 PM  

Kahabut: LazyMedia: One bit of good news for GM. When the list of car makers was expanded to include the three German auto companies, which have a far less significant market share in the U.S., suppliers said Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen AG were even harder to deal with.

See, the krauts are bigger jerks to their suppliers than Government Motors even. Germans!

/BMW did well on the survey, because they are jolly Bavarians.

BMW did well because (for the most part) they make really nice cars, out of really nice bits.  Then they service it properly and correctly.

Over 1million miles on BMW cars (3 of them).  I <3 me a BMW.  Comfortable, fast and tough.  What else do you need in a car?


Less of a douchebag image.
 
2014-05-12 11:39:06 PM  

gweilo8888: atomic-age: I don't. I buy Subarus.

OP phrased it poorly. You can hardly expect to lose 10 grand driving it off the lot when you only spent 30 grand in the first place. Buy a hundred grand car, you'll lose ten grand easily. And you still lose a heck of a lot on a cheaper ride when you drive it off the lot, Subaru or not.

Pretty much exactly the same car, same trim, same color, same dealership, everything --

New: $28,629
http://www.duffsubaru.com/new/Subaru/2014-Subaru-Outback-e656cc1a0a0 a0 0de6cd04cd318fe781c.htm

Less than 7k on the clock: $25,790
http://www.duffsubaru.com/used/Subaru/2014-Subaru-Outback-c93875870a 0a 00de49257d44c219ad49.htm

That's almost three grand in the first 6,800 miles (42 cents a mile of depreciation). Precisely 10% depreciation, if you prefer. And that's dealer retail, mind you. The dealer isn't going to buy it off you for dealer retail. Nor is a private party. More likely, you'll be out six to eight grand at least, if you want to shed the thing.

And almost all of that happened before the car even drove off the lot. The moment you got past any state-mandated cooling off period, the value plunged because the car can't be sold as new.


Right, but who sells a car with only 7k on it unless it's a lemon?
 
2014-05-13 12:12:54 AM  

bdub77: Tr0mBoNe: I can see it... most of their cars have the aesthetic styling of a pancreas.

It's so frustrating that for a while the only semi-affordable EVs that didn't look like death traps were the Volt and the Leaf because I've never driven a Chevy I didn't hate within the first minute of stepping into the vehicle, the cabin is always poorly designed. Every time I step into a Toyota I feel like they built the car just for me. And with the Leaf it was merely an issue with distance - definitely a good commuting car but only 70 miles under less than ideal conditions is not good.

Fords are kind of in between, and Nissans always feel great except for the fact I always feel they have high center of gravity and I could flip them in an instant.

I won't have money to buy a new car for 3 years but then I'm definitely going with an EV or hybrid EV if it's within affordability - the Teslas are looking amazing.


I own a VOLT, it's one of the best cars I have ever owned. A lot of VOLT owners joke that it is the best car no one has never heard of. The car is just amazing and probably one of the best things GM has done yet they marketed it so piss poor. Right now I have about 23k miles on the odometer and last month I went 1100 miles and only 66 of those were on gas. The car is worth every penny. Electric torque is also pretty nice to have.
 
2014-05-13 12:15:03 AM  

brandent: The more you eat the more you fart: hitmanric: ObscureNameHere: Not Chrysler!?!?!!?

Or, are they not considered 'US Manufacturer' anymore?

Are there really any US manufacturers anymore? Chrysler is now owned by Fiat. GMs are branded as Holdens in Aussieland and Vauxhalls in Europe. Fords have had a strong market share in Europe and Latin America for decades now. And all 3 have plants outside of the US.

Nissan trucks = made in USA.

85% of Hyundais that are sold in the USA are also built in the USA.  They are the 'most American' car company.


Most of my wife's Hyundai Veloster Turbo was actually made an assembled in korea. It might be different for other line of Hyundai cars but I know on the dealer slip it was like 75% made and assembled in korea.

I like the car a lot, it's a zippy little thing and it's got a unique look.
 
2014-05-13 12:17:07 AM  

Cyclometh: I love my Volt.

Driven about 8 thousand miles, put gas in it three times. Drives great, handles well, gotten good support from my dealer for the few minor issues it's had like the outlet cover sticking, and is super comfortable.


Hey VOLT owner, welcome to the club. I have owned mine for a little over a year now and I love the thing. Best car I have ever owned. With the 240 v charger in my garage  and work now installing plugs by my request I don't think I will use gas for a long long time. As it is last month I went 1100 miles and only used 66 miles of gas. Enjoy the car I find it to be well built and so far only one minor issue.
 
2014-05-13 12:43:18 AM  
I've put a ton of miles on my Chevy Cruze. Best car i've ever owned, not a single issue. Plus i'm happy to keep as much of those dollars as possible in North America and support a traditional American brand.

P.S. the misleading headline is sad subby.
 
2014-05-13 01:06:37 AM  

LazyMedia: gweilo8888: atomic-age: I don't. I buy Subarus.

Right, but who sells a car with only 7k on it unless it's a lemon?


Coming from a car dealing family, LOTS of people sell their cars with only a few thousand miles on them,  they get sick of them too fast, it wasn't what they thought they wanted, too big/small, etc.  whatever.  Not only that, but economic issues, baby in the family, the list goes on and on.  And, now with CarFax, you can check out most car histories as far as collision issues.  The biggest thing to worry about is collision/frame damage.  Not easy to repair.  And paint work makes selling a car a fair amount tougher.  Any add with "new paint" will get skipped by most people.  It might as well say "was taken out at red light by errant 18-wheeler".
 
2014-05-13 01:25:53 AM  

LazyMedia: Right, but who sells a car with only 7k on it unless it's a lemon?


That doesn't in any way change my point, which was that Subarus are no more immune to instant depreciation than any other car. As for who returns non-lemon low-mileage cars, the answer to that would be "people with more money than sense, and an overwhelming sense of buyer's remorse."
 
2014-05-13 02:00:52 AM  

bungle_jr: vudukungfu: I'll be first to say they suck.
they suck at design, and they sick at service.
They sold me a POS lemon and fark them to hell and fark the assholes that used MY farking tax money to bail their sorry asses out. 
That's communism at the worst.
Farking assholes.

Hope they rot in farking hell.

Never will ever own a POS GM product again.
And Yes, I pay farking cash when I buy a car.

fyi, they paid it back

not white-knighting...only gm i would buy is a vette...just stating fact

ObscureNameHere: Not Chrysler!?!?!!?

Or, are they not considered 'US Manufacturer' anymore?

not that i've ever been a big fan of chrysler*, but they officially died, in my opinion, when they got themselves bought by fiat! now we have these ugly little 500s every farking where!

*i've owned 2 chryslers...one eagle summit, one dodge avenger...ONLY reason i went with either was the mitsubishi engine


imganuncios.mitula.net

HEY! You apologize to her RIGHT NOW!

/loves my 500
//this particular one isn't mine, but it's the same color
 
2014-05-13 02:03:48 AM  

hitmanric: ObscureNameHere: Not Chrysler!?!?!!?

Or, are they not considered 'US Manufacturer' anymore?

Are there really any US manufacturers anymore? Chrysler is now owned by Fiat. GMs are branded as Holdens in Aussieland and Vauxhalls in Europe. Fords have had a strong market share in Europe and Latin America for decades now. And all 3 have plants outside of the US.



GM bought into and owns Holden, Vauxhall, and Opel. The latter two they have been involved with since before WWII. I just read that the Holden marque is going to disappear.
 
2014-05-13 02:48:13 AM  

Kouvre: [imganuncios.mitula.net image 400x300]

HEY! You apologize to her RIGHT NOW!

/loves my 500
//this particular one isn't mine, but it's the same color


Cute car. Don't listen to the small-is-ugly crowd who're permanently stuck in the 1970s.

/but change her wheels
 
2014-05-13 03:09:42 AM  

gweilo8888: bungle_jr: at least they didn't get bought out by scania or peugot, or some other shiatty euro brand like chrysler did with fiat

Referring to any European auto maker as "shiatty" by comparison to any US automaker is hi-diddly-I-LARIOUS! The auto industry operates as follows:

* First tier -- Japanese, manufactured in Japan
* Second tier -- Japanese, manufactured outside Japan
* Third tier -- Western European
* Fifth tier -- American
* Sixth tier -- Korean
* Seventh tier -- The rest of the world

/there is no fourth tier, because to say America was fourth would be to overstate its excellence.


I would rather have 1 Hyundai Elantra than 100 Mitsubishis. Korean is so much better than it used to be.
 
2014-05-13 03:58:48 AM  
jack_o_the_hills:
// Fark GM with a glowing nuclear fuel rod.. right in the cornhole

Ok bud, I think this is the first time I've LOLed from a Fark thread. You get a +1!
 
2014-05-13 08:01:13 AM  

Frederf: gweilo8888: bungle_jr: at least they didn't get bought out by scania or peugot, or some other shiatty euro brand like chrysler did with fiat

Referring to any European auto maker as "shiatty" by comparison to any US automaker is hi-diddly-I-LARIOUS! The auto industry operates as follows:

* First tier -- Japanese, manufactured in Japan
* Second tier -- Japanese, manufactured outside Japan
* Third tier -- Western European
* Fifth tier -- American
* Sixth tier -- Korean
* Seventh tier -- The rest of the world

/there is no fourth tier, because to say America was fourth would be to overstate its excellence.

I would rather have 1 Hyundai Elantra than 100 Mitsubishis. Korean is so much better than it used to be.


Yeah, lumping British, French and Italian cars in with German cars is silly; Korean cars are FAR more reliable than most of the non-German European cars, and not really less reliable than the Germans these days. You can't even really make a broad statement about British cars -- Minis built by BMW are much more reliable than Jags and Rovers built by Tata.
 
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