If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Chicago Trib)   GM is the worst car manufacturer in the US, which is like being the worst form of cancer   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 214
    More: Obvious, Nissan Motor Co., United States, worst car manufacturer, General Motors Co., payment protection insurance, automakers, Volkswagen AG, cancers  
•       •       •

6529 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 May 2014 at 2:08 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



214 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-05-12 03:12:21 PM  

realmolo: bdub77: Tr0mBoNe: I can see it... most of their cars have the aesthetic styling of a pancreas.

It's so frustrating that for a while the only semi-affordable EVs that didn't look like death traps were the Volt and the Leaf because I've never driven a Chevy I didn't hate within the first minute of stepping into the vehicle, the cabin is always poorly designed. Every time I step into a Toyota I feel like they built the car just for me. And with the Leaf it was merely an issue with distance - definitely a good commuting car but only 70 miles under less than ideal conditions is not good.

Fords are kind of in between, and Nissans always feel great except for the fact I always feel they have high center of gravity and I could flip them in an instant.

I won't have money to buy a new car for 3 years but then I'm definitely going with an EV or hybrid EV if it's within affordability - the Teslas are looking amazing.

Or, if you really care about the environment, and our dwindling oil supplies, and all that stuff, you could buy a used car.

I won't even get into the economics of buying a new car. Suffice it to say, a new car is pretty much the worst way to spend your money.


Sadly, Obama destroyed tens of thousands of fully functional used cars in an effort to force us to buy new cars.
 
2014-05-12 03:14:48 PM  

Poowaddins: As someone who's spouse works at TMMI, I'm getting a kick out of this thread.

My parents and his parents were long-time GM families. Then in the late 1990's GM's quality started to really decline around the time that their 1987 Silverado and 1987 Blazer were starting to get serious costly issues.. My parents switched to Chrysler, his switched to Toyota. My family has had a lemon Dodge Ram every year since 2000, every truck has some sort of electrical/ignition issue. His family still have their 2003 Tundra and Sequoia, with nearly 200k on the Tundra.

When I graduated high school I received a 1998 Chevy Monte Carlo. Gutless, worthless, rust bucket with bad electrical systems come to mind. I traded that off as soon as I could for a 2001 Toyota Camry...absolutely amazing car. Like a previous reviewer said, it felt like it was made for me. It was economical to drive, powerful engine, great handling, looked nice inside and out, and comfortable for our trans-continental trips every summer. We even managed to put a 1979 Chevy 305 engine in the trunk and haul it back home for my husband's project car restoration.

When we bought a new house out in the country with livestock, the necessity of 4WD and usefulness of a truck were needed. I traded my Camry in for a 2006 Tacoma. Good gas mileage for a truck, powerful enough to pull trailers, and it's not had a major issue in the 8 years I've owned it, and I'm nearing 100k miles. Hubby's truck is a 1993 T100 that's over 125k miles. The only issue it's had was that we had to replace the fuel tank that leaked, found one at a junkyard for $20 and spent an afternoon to fix it.

My parents are now on their 6th Dodge Ram, a 2012. The paint has had to be replaced in spots due to bubbling. It's had the ignition system replaced already. The stereo doesn't work if the truck isn't running, accessory on the ignition powers nothing. The sunroof doesn't work, and they've had the passenger side power windows and locks replaced.

They did try a ...


This seems to be in line with my own and others experiences. The Japanese design and build superior automobiles and have for at least 25 years. I had a 1985 Honda Civic that I had bought new. At 135K miles it just stopped at a red light and could not be started. I had it towed to the Honda dealership, who gave me the bad news: the camshaft drive pin had broken. The engine would need to be rebuilt. I told them to let me consider if a 8 year old car with this many miles warranted such a repair. As I was pondering this, I got a call from Americana Honda's customer representative. He told me that regardless of the age of the car or the number of miles, that camshaft pin should not have broken. Because of this, Honda would repair the engine at no cost to me and give me a loaner car. I drove that car for another four years and 50K miles. I bought a 1998 Accord, which my wife still drives and it is in good working condition. I drive a 2007 Accord, which still handles like it is brand new. Neither car has ever had anything by routine maintenance or minor repairs.
 
2014-05-12 03:15:10 PM  

hiker9999: LazyMedia: Voiceofreason01: bdub77: Every time I step into a Toyota I feel like they built the car just for me

I've never driven a Toyota that I like. They're practical, economical, well designed and incredibly boring.

The Corolla SR-5 from the mid-'70s had a biatchin' cabin design; it was like a fighter cockpit with all the dials and stuff angled toward you. Other than that, though, yeah, they're pretty dull. For some reason, I prefer Hondas; they're pretty boring, too, but there's a slight Apple kind of a vibe to them.

Honda seems to style itself as the "sporty Toyota alternative".  I've still got my 2004 Mazda6 (192000 miles). Other than the fact the car itself is heavy, it's a fun ride. And I picked up a 2014 Mustang as well.


I loved my 2004 mazda6, lot of fun with the v6. I agree that it is a wee heavy. Tooling around in a BMW 135i now, what a brilliant little car.

GM was too big, which is why Pontiac (rip) Olds, and Saturn no longer exist. Chevy could trim their line down by almost half and no one would notice. Caddy has gotten a LOT better. Too many trucks though.
 
2014-05-12 03:16:03 PM  
I can vouch for this.  They're dicks.  They won't sign contracts, they just send a letter saying they agree to your terms and will email/fax/write back and forth over and over rather than sign a document they SAY they agree to, but won't actually agree to.  Never happened to us, but I'm sure they up and decide to change their pricing and just say "we never agreed to THAT draft".

/That looks paranoid written out.
//Whatever, you shouldn't make suppliers paranoid.
 
2014-05-12 03:17:00 PM  

brandent: The more you eat the more you fart: hitmanric: ObscureNameHere: Not Chrysler!?!?!!?

Or, are they not considered 'US Manufacturer' anymore?

Are there really any US manufacturers anymore? Chrysler is now owned by Fiat. GMs are branded as Holdens in Aussieland and Vauxhalls in Europe. Fords have had a strong market share in Europe and Latin America for decades now. And all 3 have plants outside of the US.

Nissan trucks = made in USA.

85% of Hyundais that are sold in the USA are also built in the USA.  They are the 'most American' car company.


Most of the parts in those 85% come from Korea. It's printed right on the window sticker what the US and Korean parts content is. It's been a while since I looked, but I believe the Korean parts content is something like 95%. So the cars are assembled here, but the parts to do so are shipped here.


/former Hyundai technician
//work for Toyota now...
 
2014-05-12 03:17:49 PM  

TV's Vinnie: To be honest, GM can go f*ck themselves. They are the reason why we no longer have trolley cars as mass transit and why we don't have much in the way of high speed or light rail (they bought up all the trolley companies in the 40's & 50's and then converted over to buses. All made by GM of course).

[www.autogallery.org.ru image 519x274]

And then they have the unmitigated gall to run asshole ads like this to discourage people into riding buses and buy huge gas-guzzlers instead to prove how awesome they are to everyone.

[rebuildingfoundationsblog.files.wordpress.com image 313x400]

And riding a bicycle? I bet you're a commie AND  pedophile. Either way, you're a loser. Loser commie pedo!
[images.thetruthaboutcars.com image 571x353]


And let's not forget how they pulled up stakes and left Detroit to fend for itself.
[www.islandbreath.org image 520x393]

So f*ck GM hard! They are like a million Comcasts with a Koch Brothers center.


And then Obama gave them all billions. to keep on doing this over and over.
 
2014-05-12 03:20:15 PM  

wildcardjack: Well... Never buy the first model year of a GM product.


/FTFY while also shortening it by five words
 
2014-05-12 03:22:15 PM  

hiker9999: LazyMedia: Voiceofreason01: bdub77: Every time I step into a Toyota I feel like they built the car just for me

I've never driven a Toyota that I like. They're practical, economical, well designed and incredibly boring.

The Corolla SR-5 from the mid-'70s had a biatchin' cabin design; it was like a fighter cockpit with all the dials and stuff angled toward you. Other than that, though, yeah, they're pretty dull. For some reason, I prefer Hondas; they're pretty boring, too, but there's a slight Apple kind of a vibe to them.

Honda seems to style itself as the "sporty Toyota alternative".  I've still got my 2004 Mazda6 (192000 miles). Other than the fact the car itself is heavy, it's a fun ride. And I picked up a 2014 Mustang as well.


Yeah, I'm driving a Mazda 6 right now, for the price it's hard to do better for a drivers car if you want 4 seats.
 
2014-05-12 03:22:21 PM  

Flargan: LazyMedia: Chinese people would rather own a clapped out used Buick than a new Chinese-made car.

I think it is closer to "Many Chinese people are accustomed to Bikes, Scooters, and Public transit".

It can take a few generations to create a car-culture.


No, I've read that the cars they're currently making in China just suck. Really unreliable, to the point of making Buick seem like Toyota in comparison. There are already more than 130 million cars in China.
 
2014-05-12 03:22:54 PM  

bleeblahbloo: i meant your story about buying the shiatty car


I still have a folder that covers ten years of shiatty service from buying it brand new off the lot with a faulty gas tank reader on up to the transmission immediately needing to be rebuilt four times.

I talked over 100 people personally over ten years out of buying a brand new GM, too.
At a profit of @ $10K per vehicle on the company, that is a one million dollar loss.
I pulled out the scrap book of every farking thing they did to fark me over and I still have it.

All it took was looking at my notes and seeing what they did to convince anyone to buy anything but a GM POS.
 
2014-05-12 03:23:28 PM  
Owned too many GM cars. GM makes junk. Chrysler makes junk. Ford is decent, but also makes junk. Go 'Murica!
 
2014-05-12 03:25:30 PM  

LazyMedia: One bit of good news for GM. When the list of car makers was expanded to include the three German auto companies, which have a far less significant market share in the U.S., suppliers said Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen AG were even harder to deal with.

See, the krauts are bigger jerks to their suppliers than Government Motors even. Germans!

/BMW did well on the survey, because they are jolly Bavarians.


BMW did well because (for the most part) they make really nice cars, out of really nice bits.  Then they service it properly and correctly.

Over 1million miles on BMW cars (3 of them).  I <3 me a BMW.  Comfortable, fast and tough.  What else do you need in a car?
 
2014-05-12 03:25:44 PM  

DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Owned too many GM cars. GM makes junk. Chrysler makes junk. Ford is decent, but also makes junk. Go 'Murica!


this
 
2014-05-12 03:25:54 PM  

firegoat: brandent: The more you eat the more you fart: hitmanric: ObscureNameHere: Not Chrysler!?!?!!?

Or, are they not considered 'US Manufacturer' anymore?

Are there really any US manufacturers anymore? Chrysler is now owned by Fiat. GMs are branded as Holdens in Aussieland and Vauxhalls in Europe. Fords have had a strong market share in Europe and Latin America for decades now. And all 3 have plants outside of the US.

Nissan trucks = made in USA.

85% of Hyundais that are sold in the USA are also built in the USA.  They are the 'most American' car company.

Most of the parts in those 85% come from Korea. It's printed right on the window sticker what the US and Korean parts content is. It's been a while since I looked, but I believe the Korean parts content is something like 95%. So the cars are assembled here, but the parts to do so are shipped here.


/former Hyundai technician
//work for Toyota now...


The Toyota Camry sold in the U.S. is the second most American-made car (based on where the parts come from and where it's assembled). The only car sold in America that is more "American" is the Ford F-150, and the Camry was No. 1 in 2012. Three other Toyotas made the Top 10; no Hyundai made the list.
 
2014-05-12 03:26:32 PM  

firegoat: brandent: The more you eat the more you fart: hitmanric: ObscureNameHere: Not Chrysler!?!?!!?

Or, are they not considered 'US Manufacturer' anymore?

Are there really any US manufacturers anymore? Chrysler is now owned by Fiat. GMs are branded as Holdens in Aussieland and Vauxhalls in Europe. Fords have had a strong market share in Europe and Latin America for decades now. And all 3 have plants outside of the US.

Nissan trucks = made in USA.

85% of Hyundais that are sold in the USA are also built in the USA.  They are the 'most American' car company.

Most of the parts in those 85% come from Korea. It's printed right on the window sticker what the US and Korean parts content is. It's been a while since I looked, but I believe the Korean parts content is something like 95%. So the cars are assembled here, but the parts to do so are shipped here.


/former Hyundai technician
//work for Toyota now...


It's not anymore.  Much of the content is US made.  They have greatly increased their US presence.  For instance this plant started making engines in 2012.
http://www.hmmausa.com/hyundai-motor-manufacturing-alabama-expands-e ng ine-plant/
 
2014-05-12 03:30:38 PM  

Kahabut: LazyMedia: One bit of good news for GM. When the list of car makers was expanded to include the three German auto companies, which have a far less significant market share in the U.S., suppliers said Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen AG were even harder to deal with.

See, the krauts are bigger jerks to their suppliers than Government Motors even. Germans!

/BMW did well on the survey, because they are jolly Bavarians.

BMW did well because (for the most part) they make really nice cars, out of really nice bits.  Then they service it properly and correctly.

Over 1million miles on BMW cars (3 of them).  I <3 me a BMW.  Comfortable, fast and tough.  What else do you need in a car?


The story isn't about customer service; it's about how they relate to their suppliers.

BMWs are fun cars, but not particularly good value for money. They're not super reliable and they are VERY expensive to buy and maintain. If you want to spend the money for that kind of car, they're probably as good as a Lexus or Audi in terms of value for money, but they're no Toyota or Honda.
 
2014-05-12 03:33:24 PM  

The_EliteOne: No issues with my 2012 convertible camaro. Bought it with 12.5k miles on it. Just passed 25k.

All these poo-poo GM threads though, man they make me worry that issues are going to hit me like a truck very, very soon.


part of the "old GM/ New GM" mentality was shown that the small cars that they pumped out to fill their profit margins were done so for fleet sales, so quality wasn't going to be high on their list of features. Now, if you bought one of their bread and butter items like their SUV's, sports/sporty cars then most recalls don't affect you as much. If your car part shares commonalities with other vehicles, be worried. If the parts were for a small sect of model you're in the clear.

I own a Mustang and now that the warranty is long gone I realize how much of the quality in parts given to the "bread and butter" cars of any manufacturer plays in vehicle longevity.

/also talking mom into getting rid of her underpowered Silverado 1200 V6 for something different...
 
2014-05-12 03:33:51 PM  
Fark overpriced, featureless piece of shiat American cars.
 
2014-05-12 03:34:50 PM  
So far so good with our Buick Encore. I also like my Dodge Charger and Chrysler T&C, no major issues.
 
2014-05-12 03:35:31 PM  

Nemo's Brother: And then Obama gave them all billions. to keep on doing this over and over.


I'm pregnant

It was Dubya that did that, as a final "F*CK YOU! RICH PEOPLE ARE MORE IMPORTANT!" to every regular American who lost their job and home after the crash.
 
2014-05-12 03:36:16 PM  

ringersol: 1. Who gives a fark what *suppliers* like? They either bid for the business or they don't. And the degree to which GM is a clusterfark should just be priced-in to their bids.

2. Call me crazy, but if you're doing the whole "free market" thing properly, your suppliers are *going* to dislike dealing with you. You'll be pressing them hard to trim their own margins, you'll be holding their feet to the fire on contract terms and performance, you'll be putting them back into merits-based competition for each new piece of work. These are all perfectly straightforward and reasonable things you would assume everyone would do -- but suppliers *hate* it. They like to win business on soft-money and sleazy junkets. They like to get the next job on the basis of a "relationship" that isn't at all related to their actual prior performance.

So I'm not particularly convinced that GM should give a flying fark about this 'image problem'.


You aren't taking into account the human aspect of the supplier.  If you're a jerk and I have another contract from your competitor I'll take the competitor just to not deal with you.  If I am a successful ignition manufacturer and the other players in the market are buying my ignition, I don't need your headache.  I don't supply you.  Then you have to buy from some company that has quality control issues and end up making a recall.
 
2014-05-12 03:39:17 PM  

vudukungfu: bleeblahbloo: i meant your story about buying the shiatty car

I still have a folder that covers ten years of shiatty service from buying it brand new off the lot with a faulty gas tank reader on up to the transmission immediately needing to be rebuilt four times.

I talked over 100 people personally over ten years out of buying a brand new GM, too.
At a profit of @ $10K per vehicle on the company, that is a one million dollar loss.
I pulled out the scrap book of every farking thing they did to fark me over and I still have it.

All it took was looking at my notes and seeing what they did to convince anyone to buy anything but a GM POS.


Mine had to have the clutch bearing replaced 4 times and the cylinder head 3 times. This is on top of all the other random electronic and mechanical failures. Fortunately I was able to negotiate a decent trade-in toward my current vehicle, otherwise I'd be (more) bitter
 
2014-05-12 03:40:24 PM  

LazyMedia: Flargan: LazyMedia: Chinese people would rather own a clapped out used Buick than a new Chinese-made car.

I think it is closer to "Many Chinese people are accustomed to Bikes, Scooters, and Public transit".

It can take a few generations to create a car-culture.

No, I've read that the cars they're currently making in China just suck. Really unreliable, to the point of making Buick seem like Toyota in comparison. There are already more than 130 million cars in China.


So, slightly below average cars seem like slightly above average?
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=iqsBrand&su b ject=iqs">http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=i qsBrand&sub ject=iqs
 
2014-05-12 03:41:44 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: I can see it... most of their cars have the aesthetic styling of a pancreas.


At least the pancreas supplies the human body with an essential substance - insulin.
A GM car supplies the body with a non-essential substance - hydrochloric acid that
causes ulcers.
 
2014-05-12 03:42:42 PM  

brandent: It's not anymore.  Much of the content is US made.  They have greatly increased their US presence.  For instance this plant started making engines in 2012.
http://www.hmmausa.com/hyundai-motor-manufacturing-alabama-expands-e ng ine-plant/


But America still doesn't have the first clue how to pronounce it. (And nor does Britain, for that matter.)

Hint: It's not "Hunn-day", and nor is it "High-Oon-Die"
 
2014-05-12 03:43:49 PM  
I drive an 82 Silverado
343k miles on the odometer. I can fix it with a hammer,screwdrivers,and a crescent wrench.
 
2014-05-12 03:44:02 PM  

LazyMedia: No, I've read that the cars they're currently making in China just suck. Really unreliable, to the point of making Buick seem like Toyota in comparison. There are already more than 130 million cars in China.


I will just take your word for it.

My friends that travel back and forth to China (charity work mostly) tell me that cars (not just those made domestically) are not considered a primary means of transportation and are viewed as a luxury item.

//In fact the stories I have been told about traffic in Chinese cities would make you believe that cars are useless as a means of transportation.
 
2014-05-12 03:47:29 PM  

loonatic112358: Cyclometh: I love my Volt.

Driven about 8 thousand miles, put gas in it three times. Drives great, handles well, gotten good support from my dealer for the few minor issues it's had like the outlet cover sticking, and is super comfortable.

I want one, but I worry that It'll fit me like a clowncar


I'm 6' 1" and 190.  I fit just find in my Volt.  It is really an amazing piece of technology.  I love it and won't hesitate to buy another one.

Their ICE cars, not so much.
 
2014-05-12 03:51:15 PM  
1K miles out of warranty the turbo and fuel pump (second one) on my Chevy diesel truck died.  GM told me to pound salt, so I fixed it and traded it the same day for a new Ford.  The Ford ran 160K miles without so much as a spark plug change, and I sold it still running like a champ.  Fark GM, they should have died without any more of my money.
 
2014-05-12 03:51:32 PM  
Currently own a 2004 Honda Accord V6.....bought it fully loaded with 1,000 miles on it. Just recently broke the 200K mile marker! The only major issues I had were a defective hydraulic bearing and a transmission that failed. These both happened before hitting 100K miles and were covered under the extended warranty I had purchased with the car. It only cost me $57.00 to change my timing belt as the engine had to be taken part for the hydraulic bearing and all labor was paid for by Honda!

Looking at getting a 2014 Honda Odyssey in the next few weeks......
 
2014-05-12 03:52:59 PM  

gweilo8888: brandent: It's not anymore.  Much of the content is US made.  They have greatly increased their US presence.  For instance this plant started making engines in 2012.
http://www.hmmausa.com/hyundai-motor-manufacturing-alabama-expands-e ng ine-plant/

But America still doesn't have the first clue how to pronounce it. (And nor does Britain, for that matter.)

Hint: It's not "Hunn-day", and nor is it "High-Oon-Die"


Which is why most Korean immigrants change their names to Steve, Brian, Cathy, etc. My Korean college (Steve) told me it is pronounced just as its anglicized spelling suggests: hyun-dye with a slightly long stress on the terminal I sound.
 
2014-05-12 03:53:28 PM  

TV's Vinnie: To be honest, GM can go f*ck themselves. They are the reason why we no longer have trolley cars as mass transit and why we don't have much in the way of high speed or light rail (they bought up all the trolley companies in the 40's & 50's and then converted over to buses. All made by GM of course).
[www.autogallery.org.ru image 519×274]

And then they have the unmitigated gall to run asshole ads like this to discourage people into riding buses and buy huge gas-guzzlers instead to prove how awesome they are to everyone.
[rebuildingfoundationsblog.files.wordpress.com image 313×400]

And riding a bicycle? I bet you're a commie AND pedophile. Either way, you're a loser. Loser commie pedo!
[images.thetruthaboutcars.com image 571×353]

And let's not forget how they pulled up stakes and left Detroit to fend for itself.
[www.islandbreath.org image 520×393]

So f*ck GM hard! They are like a million Comcasts with a Koch Brothers center.

Don't forget GM's partners in crime in that trolley fiasco: Standard Oil, Philips Petroleum, and Firestone. Of course the GM buses burned Standard's and Philips's diesel and ran on Goodwill tires.

They were convicted of fraud and conspiracy in this. It wasn't just that they bought up the trolley companies. It was that they sent salesmen disguised as agents of a non-existent federal mass transportation agency to cities that had trolleys, showing fake studies to convince them to switch to GM buses. The judge who was apparently in their pocket fined GM $5k and their treasurer H. C. Grossman a whopping $1.

It almost sounds like a plot a cartoon villain would come up with in a movie ― like, oh, say, Judge Doom in Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Gues what? That movie scheme was actually based on this real-life criminal conspiracy. There really was a Red Car in Los Angeles, it really was bought out and dismantled, though not by the Cloverleaf Corporation, but rather by a shell organization for GM et al.
 
2014-05-12 03:53:52 PM  

error 303: My wife's GM car was recalled. She was actually in an accident in 2005 in it which is more or less identical to what the described problems were (tried to break brake quickly after a car merged in front of her and slammed on their breaks brakes and her power steering/power breakings braking locked up).


No wonder the damn thing's in the shop, what with all of the breaking she does! ;)
 
2014-05-12 03:55:27 PM  

LazyMedia: Kahabut: LazyMedia: One bit of good news for GM. When the list of car makers was expanded to include the three German auto companies, which have a far less significant market share in the U.S., suppliers said Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen AG were even harder to deal with.

See, the krauts are bigger jerks to their suppliers than Government Motors even. Germans!

/BMW did well on the survey, because they are jolly Bavarians.

BMW did well because (for the most part) they make really nice cars, out of really nice bits.  Then they service it properly and correctly.

Over 1million miles on BMW cars (3 of them).  I <3 me a BMW.  Comfortable, fast and tough.  What else do you need in a car?

The story isn't about customer service; it's about how they relate to their suppliers.

BMWs are fun cars, but not particularly good value for money. They're not super reliable and they are VERY expensive to buy and maintain. If you want to spend the money for that kind of car, they're probably as good as a Lexus or Audi in terms of value for money, but they're no Toyota or Honda.


I hear this a lot from people that don't own BMWs.

On a dollar for dollar basis, I have no doubt other cars come out ahead.  But let me just cover this little bit of bullshiat.  "bmws cost more to maintain".  More than what?  I have a MILLION miles, spread across 3 BMWs.  I paid less than $10,000 for each car when I bought it.  I pay roughly $1000/year for service, which includes tires/brakes.  I think you'd be hard pressed to find similar outcomes with anything other than a Toyota.  And while you're at it, find me a 400hp Toyota, or honda, with 4 doors and room for adults in the back seat.  Good luck.

Now, I have also owned several other cars, ford, mazda, nissan, toyota.  Most of these were cheaper to buy, and more expensive to keep running than the BMWs I prefer.  It could be I just have bad taste/luck in cars, but in my experience (which is obviously not diverse enough to be considered evidence) BMW makes reliable cars, that are easy to work on, and while not "cheap" to maintain, certainly not more expensive than average.

Look, I'm not going to sit here and pretend that my favorite car make is better than everything else.  That would be folly.  I am going to say this though.
If you've never owned one, you really don't have any idea what you are talking about.  Some of the luxury brands are so far ahead of the standard cars that it's really hard to believe.  BMW isn't the only one, they just happen to be my favorite.
 
2014-05-12 03:55:54 PM  
Anyone RTFA?


Suppliers gave GM low marks on all kinds of key measures, including its overall trustworthiness, its communication skills, and its protection of intellectual property.

So basically, their Tier 1 suppliers (the firms that sell parts directly to GM) hate them.
 
2014-05-12 03:59:31 PM  

LazyMedia: The story isn't about customer service; it's about how they relate to their suppliers.


At the end of the day, if you treat suppliers like crap, you'll treat customers like crap. If you can find a way to treat one person like crap, you'll find a reason to treat everyone that way.
 
2014-05-12 04:00:12 PM  

mike_d85: LazyMedia: Flargan: LazyMedia: Chinese people would rather own a clapped out used Buick than a new Chinese-made car.

I think it is closer to "Many Chinese people are accustomed to Bikes, Scooters, and Public transit".

It can take a few generations to create a car-culture.

No, I've read that the cars they're currently making in China just suck. Really unreliable, to the point of making Buick seem like Toyota in comparison. There are already more than 130 million cars in China.

So, slightly below average cars seem like slightly above average?
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=iqsBrand&su b ject=iqs">http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=i qsBrand&sub ject=iqs


I'm always reading articles about the supposed reliability of American cars these days, but I never hear any anecdotal evidence of it. Could be confirmation bias, but on these car threads, you'll get dozens of people biatching about their POS unreliable American cars and singing the praises of Toyota and Honda, and very few saying anything different.

My experience was with a PT Cruiser. Bought new in 2003, had it for 10 years, had a few problems that needed repair like an engine control chip. Nothing really good about it other than the looks and ability to haul stuff; it drove like crap out of the box and tended to eat brake pads, tires and gasoline (25 mpg). Last year it started using a lot of oil, and leaking radiator fluid. Turned out the engine block had cracked at 90,000 miles. On the other hand, we bought a Honda Civic new in 1995. Fun to drive, insanely good mileage. Never had anything wrong with it other than scheduled maintenance for 15 years; eventually had to replace the air conditioning condenser. Drove it for 140,000 miles and sold it earlier this year as a reliable runner.

I dunno who fills out those J.D. Power questionnaires, but their experience doesn't track anything that actual people tell me.
 
2014-05-12 04:00:32 PM  

packman_jon: Anyone RTFA?


Suppliers gave GM low marks on all kinds of key measures, including its overall trustworthiness, its communication skills, and its protection of intellectual property.

So basically, their Tier 1 suppliers (the firms that sell parts directly to GM) hate them.


Oh, it`s not just the suppliers, believe me.
 
2014-05-12 04:02:15 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: realmolo: I won't even get into the economics of buying a new car. Suffice it to say, a new car is pretty much the worst way to spend your money.

Lose 10 grand of their value the minute you drive them off the lot.
 
Really good investment.


To be fair, no car is an investment. If you enjoy buying new and can afford it, knock yourself out. Just about every purchase we make is a waste of money, so meh.

My wife and I buy new. We're each on our second new car in our adult lives (I owned a couple of beaters as a young'un). We're in our 40s - our first new cars lasted 8 and 10 years and got traded in. We would spend less buying used initially but it's kind of nice driving a car nobody but you has ever driven.

If my wife wanted to a new car every 3 years, I would push back hard on buying new, obviously.
 
2014-05-12 04:02:19 PM  
The_EliteOne
No issues with my 2012 convertible camaro. Bought it with 12.5k miles on it. Just passed 25k.
All these poo-poo GM threads though, man they make me worry that issues are going to hit me like a truck very, very soon.


Expect the electronics to start to go at about 120k.

I might be wrong by a few K here or there, but my best guess is start to consider letting it go at 75 K while it is still in great shape and everything still humming well.
 
2014-05-12 04:03:59 PM  

Flargan: LazyMedia: No, I've read that the cars they're currently making in China just suck. Really unreliable, to the point of making Buick seem like Toyota in comparison. There are already more than 130 million cars in China.

I will just take your word for it.

My friends that travel back and forth to China (charity work mostly) tell me that cars (not just those made domestically) are not considered a primary means of transportation and are viewed as a luxury item.

//In fact the stories I have been told about traffic in Chinese cities would make you believe that cars are useless as a means of transportation.


You're both sort of correct.  As a daily travel option, your average Chinese person gets around with something else besides a car.  However, owning a car is a status symbol in China.  Every single family that wants to be considered upwardly mobile (i.e., all of them) will buy a car.  Only the most patriotic of Chinese will buy a Chinese made car, the citizens know the cars are terrible and unreliable.  Buick is the most desired American brand and Toyota/Honda put a lot of Chinese on their cars to make people forget that they're Japanese owned.

There is a Chinese car culture but there isn't a commuting culture like we may have in the US.  A car to a Chinese person is something they use rarely during the week unless they're VERY wealthy.
 
2014-05-12 04:05:01 PM  
BTW GM's issues with suppliers go way back. You GM acting like it was a crime for suppliers to make a profit so suppliers were trying to figure out how to design and make parts for what little GM was willing to pay for them. And when companies like Honda and Toyota showed up to make cars in the US some of the suppliers couldn't run fast enough to bid for those deals. I know some suppliers when they got new deals dropped GM like a hot potato. And this is a couple decades ago, GM management hasn't changed since then.
 
2014-05-12 04:06:47 PM  

COMALite J: TV's Vinnie: To be honest, GM can go f*ck themselves. They are the reason why we no longer have trolley cars as mass transit and why we don't have much in the way of high speed or light rail (they bought up all the trolley companies in the 40's & 50's and then converted over to buses. All made by GM of course).
[www.autogallery.org.ru image 519×274]

And then they have the unmitigated gall to run asshole ads like this to discourage people into riding buses and buy huge gas-guzzlers instead to prove how awesome they are to everyone.
[rebuildingfoundationsblog.files.wordpress.com image 313×400]

And riding a bicycle? I bet you're a commie AND pedophile. Either way, you're a loser. Loser commie pedo!
[images.thetruthaboutcars.com image 571×353]

And let's not forget how they pulled up stakes and left Detroit to fend for itself.
[www.islandbreath.org image 520×393]

So f*ck GM hard! They are like a million Comcasts with a Koch Brothers center.
Don't forget GM's partners in crime in that trolley fiasco: Standard Oil, Philips Petroleum, and Firestone. Of course the GM buses burned Standard's and Philips's diesel and ran on Goodwill tires.

They were convicted of fraud and conspiracy in this. It wasn't just that they bought up the trolley companies. It was that they sent salesmen disguised as agents of a non-existent federal mass transportation agency to cities that had trolleys, showing fake studies to convince them to switch to GM buses. The judge who was apparently in their pocket fined GM $5k and their treasurer H. C. Grossman a whopping $1.

It almost sounds like a plot a cartoon villain would come up with in a movie ― like, oh, say, Judge Doom in Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Gues what? That movie scheme was actually based on this real-life criminal conspiracy. There really was a Red Car in Los Angeles, it really was bought out and dismantled, though not by the Cloverleaf Corporation, but rather by a shell organization for GM et al.


GM certainly sped things along, but street trolleys weren't a viable business once roads got good. They were mainly popular when buses were too primitive and roads were too bad to compete. Bus mass transportation is cheaper to maintain than electric street cars; the reason it didn't stay robust is that cars are so much better and they were cheap enough for people to afford (which they weren't in the heyday of street cars). Street cars have the same traffic congestion problem that buses have, and are far more expensive to maintain.
 
2014-05-12 04:06:51 PM  
Never cared much for GM as I never found them to have a really appealing car for my taste.

I went with Dodge after my first Grand Caravan was a fun tank to drive, but when I got another Caravan, it had major issues, and I ended up screwed with it, I didn't have much choice (as no one else wanted to take it), and went for a switch to another Grand Caravan (which I have now).

Engine light issues, loose gas cap they said... 1 month later, after warranty runs out, light's back, now it's suddenly a 500-700$ sensor job. I've never bothered with it, bought a reader and just been resetting it, 3 years later and still without issues, and from what I've read, it's something stupid, and a very common Dodge Grand Caravan issue, which they never did a recall on, but is well known.

I get the lifetime anti-rust warranty, they do an inspection in the mid-summer, "no rust".  The following spring, I discover that most of the underside, under the doors, next to the wheels, is completely rusted out when my hand goes right through the panel when I'm doing switching the tires. They claim "I waited too long" and quote me a 1,200$ repair job (considering that this lifetime warranty was 1,500$).  I'm seriously debating what to do about it still... (I'm sure I could get someone to do the repair for a lot less, but I just don't want to invest another cent in it..)

I will NEVER buy Dodge or american again.
 
2014-05-12 04:06:54 PM  
gweilo8888: brandent: It's not anymore. Much of the content is US made. They have greatly increased their US presence. For instance this plant started making engines in 2012.
http://www.hmmausa.com/hyundai-motor-manufacturing-alabama-expands-e ng ine-plant/
But America still doesn't have the first clue how to pronounce it. (And nor does Britain, for that matter.)
Hint: It's not "Hunn-day", and nor is it "High-Oon-Die"


Say Hyun-Dai. If you want to go the next step project it from the bottom of your throat (vs your tongue) when you say it.
 
2014-05-12 04:12:28 PM  

bungle_jr: vudukungfu: I'll be first to say they suck.
they suck at design, and they sick at service.
They sold me a POS lemon and fark them to hell and fark the assholes that used MY farking tax money to bail their sorry asses out. 
That's communism at the worst.
Farking assholes.

Hope they rot in farking hell.

Never will ever own a POS GM product again.
And Yes, I pay farking cash when I buy a car.

fyi, they paid it back

not white-knighting...only gm i would buy is a vette...just stating fact

ObscureNameHere: Not Chrysler!?!?!!?

Or, are they not considered 'US Manufacturer' anymore?

not that i've ever been a big fan of chrysler*, but they officially died, in my opinion, when they got themselves bought by fiat! now we have these ugly little 500s every farking where!

*i've owned 2 chryslers...one eagle summit, one dodge avenger...ONLY reason i went with either was the mitsubishi engine


They may have paid the loan back but tax payers still ate $11billion when the govt finally cut and ran from GM.

So GM lives to fight another day. I can't speak to what the article is about since I'm not a parts supplier to GM. However, I think they are doing some good things with some of their newer models.

I hope they can learn from past mistakes, but it doesn't seem likely.
 
2014-05-12 04:14:07 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: AeAe: I'm getting a kick because i just bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

I'm sorry. I hope your life insurance is paid up.


Beat me to it.  How very unfortunate.
 
2014-05-12 04:16:06 PM  

Enemabag Jones: The_EliteOne
No issues with my 2012 convertible camaro. Bought it with 12.5k miles on it. Just passed 25k.
All these poo-poo GM threads though, man they make me worry that issues are going to hit me like a truck very, very soon.

Expect the electronics to start to go at about 120k.

I might be wrong by a few K here or there, but my best guess is start to consider letting it go at 75 K while it is still in great shape and everything still humming well.


Thanks, and to all the posters above me as well. I think if I get 75k out of her, that would be excellent. That will give me 6 -  10 years with her depending on how many trips to Vermont or S.C. to see family.
Might just do ZipCar for those trips now.

Too bad about GM, I have many older people in my family who must remember better times/cars with them. And that whole "Buy Merica' thing"
 
2014-05-12 04:17:38 PM  

LazyMedia: mike_d85: LazyMedia: Flargan: LazyMedia: Chinese people would rather own a clapped out used Buick than a new Chinese-made car.

I think it is closer to "Many Chinese people are accustomed to Bikes, Scooters, and Public transit".

It can take a few generations to create a car-culture.

No, I've read that the cars they're currently making in China just suck. Really unreliable, to the point of making Buick seem like Toyota in comparison. There are already more than 130 million cars in China.

So, slightly below average cars seem like slightly above average?
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=iqsBrand&su b ject=iqs">http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=i qsBrand&sub ject=iqs

I'm always reading articles about the supposed reliability of American cars these days, but I never hear any anecdotal evidence of it. Could be confirmation bias, but on these car threads, you'll get dozens of people biatching about their POS unreliable American cars and singing the praises of Toyota and Honda, and very few saying anything different.

My experience was with a PT Cruiser. Bought new in 2003, had it for 10 years, had a few problems that needed repair like an engine control chip. Nothing really good about it other than the looks and ability to haul stuff; it drove like crap out of the box and tended to eat brake pads, tires and gasoline (25 mpg). Last year it started using a lot of oil, and leaking radiator fluid. Turned out the engine block had cracked at 90,000 miles. On the other hand, we bought a Honda Civic new in 1995. Fun to drive, insanely good mileage. Never had anything wrong with it other than scheduled maintenance for 15 years; eventually had to replace the air conditioning condenser. Drove it for 140,000 miles and sold it earlier this year as a reliable runner.

I dunno who fills out those J.D. Power questionnaires, but their experience doesn't track anything that actual people tell me.


You drove a PT Cruiser for 10 years? Seriously?
 
2014-05-12 04:17:53 PM  

TV's Vinnie: I'm pregnant


Mazel tov!
 
Displayed 50 of 214 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report