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(Chicago Trib)   GM is the worst car manufacturer in the US, which is like being the worst form of cancer   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 214
    More: Obvious, Nissan Motor Co., United States, worst car manufacturer, General Motors Co., payment protection insurance, automakers, Volkswagen AG, cancers  
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6529 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 May 2014 at 2:08 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-12 02:31:48 PM  

debug: You all realize this article is about how difficult it is for GM's suppliers to deal with them, right?  It's got nothing to do with consumers.

Not disputing that their end product is crap, just sayin'


So they get the shiatty parts?
 
2014-05-12 02:32:33 PM  

bdub77: Tr0mBoNe: I can see it... most of their cars have the aesthetic styling of a pancreas.

It's so frustrating that for a while the only semi-affordable EVs that didn't look like death traps were the Volt and the Leaf because I've never driven a Chevy I didn't hate within the first minute of stepping into the vehicle, the cabin is always poorly designed. Every time I step into a Toyota I feel like they built the car just for me. And with the Leaf it was merely an issue with distance - definitely a good commuting car but only 70 miles under less than ideal conditions is not good.

Fords are kind of in between, and Nissans always feel great except for the fact I always feel they have high center of gravity and I could flip them in an instant.

I won't have money to buy a new car for 3 years but then I'm definitely going with an EV or hybrid EV if it's within affordability - the Teslas are looking amazing.


http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Vehicles/2014/i3/BMWi3/defaul t. aspx?from=/Standard/Content/Vehicles/2014/BMWi/BMWi3RD.aspx&return=/St andard/Content/Vehicles/2014/BMWi/BMWi3RD.aspx

Do the research.  You will be amazed.  With the 600 cc scooter engine as backup you don't need to worry about range issues.  There are little nuances of eco that others just don't think about.  For instance the factory the carbon fiber panels are made in is 100% powered by hydroelectric power.
 
2014-05-12 02:33:16 PM  
www.techienews.co.uk
 
2014-05-12 02:33:21 PM  

AeAe: I'm getting a kick because i just bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee.


I'm sorry. I hope your life insurance is paid up.
 
2014-05-12 02:33:28 PM  

LazyMedia: All of the competition is subsidized by their home countries. When a car company dies, you don't get more and better competition, you just get one fewer car company.


^This

I don't think people know how awful Toyota was in its early days. (They narrowly avoided bankruptcy and needed government support to put them back on track.)
 
2014-05-12 02:33:40 PM  

hitmanric: ObscureNameHere: Not Chrysler!?!?!!?

Or, are they not considered 'US Manufacturer' anymore?

Are there really any US manufacturers anymore? Chrysler is now owned by Fiat. GMs are branded as Holdens in Aussieland and Vauxhalls in Europe. Fords have had a strong market share in Europe and Latin America for decades now. And all 3 have plants outside of the US.


Ford has had separate operations in the British Commonwealth since 1909. GM bought British Vauxhall in 1925, and German Opel in 1929. No international corporation gives a rat's ass about where it was founded, or where it's headquartered, or where most of its customers and employees live. All car manufacturers are from the planet Money.
 
2014-05-12 02:33:50 PM  

debug: You all realize this article is about how difficult it is for GM's suppliers to deal with them, right?  It's got nothing to do with consumers.

Not disputing that their end product is crap, just sayin'


Yes. I've heard how difficult it is for systems integrators or anyone in the factory automation biz to make money supplying to *any* company in the auto industry. You almost never get that final 10% payment after the job's done.
 
2014-05-12 02:34:22 PM  

realmolo: Or, if you really care about the environment, and our dwindling oil supplies, and all that stuff, you could buy a used car.

I won't even get into the economics of buying a new car. Suffice it to say, a new car is pretty much the worst way to spend your money.


Negative.  Don't want somebody's leftovers when I depend on my car daily without fault.  What price piece of mind?

I buy my cars to last 10 years and 250-300k miles, then put them out for resale.  With improved gas mileage and emissions, I'm saving the earth....
 
2014-05-12 02:34:52 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: hitmanric: ObscureNameHere: Not Chrysler!?!?!!?

Or, are they not considered 'US Manufacturer' anymore?

Are there really any US manufacturers anymore? Chrysler is now owned by Fiat. GMs are branded as Holdens in Aussieland and Vauxhalls in Europe. Fords have had a strong market share in Europe and Latin America for decades now. And all 3 have plants outside of the US.

Nissan trucks = made in USA.


85% of Hyundais that are sold in the USA are also built in the USA.  They are the 'most American' car company.
 
2014-05-12 02:35:00 PM  

bungle_jr: vudukungfu: I'll be first to say they suck.
they suck at design, and they sick at service.
They sold me a POS lemon and fark them to hell and fark the assholes that used MY farking tax money to bail their sorry asses out.
That's communism at the worst.
Farking assholes.

Hope they rot in farking hell.

Never will ever own a POS GM product again.
And Yes, I pay farking cash when I buy a car.

fyi, they paid it back

not white-knighting...only gm i would buy is a vette...just stating fact

ObscureNameHere: Not Chrysler!?!?!!?

Or, are they not considered 'US Manufacturer' anymore?

not that i've ever been a big fan of chrysler*, but they officially died, in my opinion, when they got themselves bought by fiat! now we have these ugly little 500s every farking where!

*i've owned 2 chryslers...one eagle summit, one dodge avenger...ONLY reason i went with either was the mitsubishi engine

 
2014-05-12 02:35:00 PM  

vudukungfu: Jesus farking christ, if the farmer down the road fark up and farks his chickens to death, we don't give him a replacement farking farked to death chicken subsidy, now, do we?
DO WE?!!


Of course we do, why else do you think we have a Farm Bill?
 
2014-05-12 02:35:43 PM  

JackieRabbit: This is not a repeat of 1974, 1984, 1994, or 2004...

vudukungfu: Slaves2Darkness: All those libby libs wanted socialism well guess what? You got it, bastard American style.

I'm not a Farking LIBBY LIB. I only LIVE IN VERMONT!.
I'm FOR THE DEATH PENALTY, for shiat's sakes.
Jesus jumping christ on a pogo stick.
Fark this whole farking country.
It's entirely populated with too many ignorant yayhoos.
Left, right, middle of the road, it doesn't matter what side they are on.
Jesus farking christ, if the farmer down the road fark up and farks his chickens to death, we don't give him a replacement farking farked to death chicken subsidy, now, do we?
DO WE?!!


/Oh shait.
//Please tell me we don't
///Tell me only Fox News is profiting from farking chickens.

Please don't feed the trolls.


PLSHSHSHSHSH. Feeding the trolls and being fed in turn is the only reason I come to Fark anymore.
 
2014-05-12 02:36:21 PM  
Most people I know drive full size pickup trucks. I drive a Chevrolet Silverado myself. Happy with it.
 
2014-05-12 02:36:30 PM  

Flargan: LazyMedia: All of the competition is subsidized by their home countries. When a car company dies, you don't get more and better competition, you just get one fewer car company.

^This

I don't think people know how awful Toyota was in its early days. (They narrowly avoided bankruptcy and needed government support to put them back on track.)


At one time Japan made the cheap crap, now they make they make good stuff, then korea and taiwan made cheap crap now they don't now china does, except they're getting better


Eventually we'll run out of other countries and it'll be our turn again
 
2014-05-12 02:36:40 PM  
Subby FAIL at drawing analogies.
By your logic is Tesla Motors like the best form of cancer?
 
2014-05-12 02:36:48 PM  
1. Who gives a fark what *suppliers* like? They either bid for the business or they don't. And the degree to which GM is a clusterfark should just be priced-in to their bids.

2. Call me crazy, but if you're doing the whole "free market" thing properly, your suppliers are *going* to dislike dealing with you. You'll be pressing them hard to trim their own margins, you'll be holding their feet to the fire on contract terms and performance, you'll be putting them back into merits-based competition for each new piece of work. These are all perfectly straightforward and reasonable things you would assume everyone would do -- but suppliers *hate* it. They like to win business on soft-money and sleazy junkets. They like to get the next job on the basis of a "relationship" that isn't at all related to their actual prior performance.

So I'm not particularly convinced that GM should give a flying fark about this 'image problem'.
 
2014-05-12 02:38:59 PM  
FTA...

Suppliers gave GM low marks on all kinds of key measures, including its overall trustworthiness, its communication skills, and its protection of intellectual property.

The suppliers also said that GM was the automaker least likely to allow them to raise prices to recoup unexpected material cost increases.

"As a result, GM is now the least preferred customer of suppliers," PPI says.

Based on what questions were asked, and the responses I'd say GM was a pretty good company to its customers but wasn't letting the suppliers SCREW everyone when they felt like it....Go GM.
 
2014-05-12 02:39:08 PM  

wumpus: Most people I know drive full size pickup trucks. I drive a Chevrolet Silverado myself. Happy with it.


I've been driving a GMC sierra for the last week


damn nice truck, if I wanted a truck


I like getting 30-40 MPG in my vehicles though
 
2014-05-12 02:44:57 PM  

bdub77: I won't have money to buy a new car for 3 years but then I'm definitely going with an EV or hybrid EV if it's within affordability - the Teslas are looking amazing.


I just went to one of the BMW i3 test drive events - the most expensive small EV on the market, naturally, but none of them are cheap and, like you'd expect, it was very comfortable.  And very out there for a BMW in many ways.

\I'm sticking with my TDI, though.  I do a lot of road tripping, and it's hard to beat 42 mpg highway in a wagon.  It doesn't drive like a boat either - I have high hopes of never being stuck in the third row seating market where all the fun is sucked out of driving.
 
2014-05-12 02:45:51 PM  

ObscureNameHere: Not Chrysler!?!?!!?


Yeah, that caught me off guard as well.
 
2014-05-12 02:46:13 PM  

AeAe: I'm getting a kick because i just bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee.


Me too. And I love it!
 
2014-05-12 02:48:15 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: JackieRabbit: This is not a repeat of 1974, 1984, 1994, or 2004...

vudukungfu: Slaves2Darkness: All those libby libs wanted socialism well guess what? You got it, bastard American style.

I'm not a Farking LIBBY LIB. I only LIVE IN VERMONT!.
I'm FOR THE DEATH PENALTY, for shiat's sakes.
Jesus jumping christ on a pogo stick.
Fark this whole farking country.
It's entirely populated with too many ignorant yayhoos.
Left, right, middle of the road, it doesn't matter what side they are on.
Jesus farking christ, if the farmer down the road fark up and farks his chickens to death, we don't give him a replacement farking farked to death chicken subsidy, now, do we?
DO WE?!!


/Oh shait.
//Please tell me we don't
///Tell me only Fox News is profiting from farking chickens.

Please don't feed the trolls.

PLSHSHSHSHSH. Feeding the trolls and being fed in turn is the only reason I come to Fark anymore.


I have chickens.  I need to look into that subsidy.
 
2014-05-12 02:49:22 PM  
I love my Volt.

Driven about 8 thousand miles, put gas in it three times. Drives great, handles well, gotten good support from my dealer for the few minor issues it's had like the outlet cover sticking, and is super comfortable.
 
2014-05-12 02:51:19 PM  
Caddies have been rated pretty well over the last decade, Chevy is another story.
 
2014-05-12 02:52:09 PM  

mama2tnt: debug: You all realize this article is about how difficult it is for GM's suppliers to deal with them, right?  It's got nothing to do with consumers.

Not disputing that their end product is crap, just sayin'

Aw, shiat, we've got someone in here who actually read the linked article.

/Everyone hide!


That's because it's such a well-known fact that GM sucks, nobody really had to read the article.  It seems the headline may have been just a tiny bit astray of the bullseye.
 
2014-05-12 02:54:08 PM  

LazyMedia: One bit of good news for GM. When the list of car makers was expanded to include the three German auto companies, which have a far less significant market share in the U.S., suppliers said Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen AG were even harder to deal with.

See, the krauts are bigger jerks to their suppliers than Government Motors even. Germans!

/BMW did well on the survey, because they are jolly Bavarians.


On the other hand, Daimler divesting itself of Chrysler might have been the best thing to happen to Chrysler in the past decade. (That and making Ram its own make separate from Dodge...)
 
2014-05-12 02:54:18 PM  

bungle_jr: vudukungfu: bungle_jr: fyi, they paid it back

FYI they should NEVER HAVE GOTTEN IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

They failed. They failed be cause they SUCKASS and they deserved to die DIE DIE

They should have been buried under the more successful, less sucky competition.

Fark them in the ass.

i do agree with you
but i still have to give the kudos for getting it paid back...whether they deserved it in the first place or not

at least they didn't get bought out by scania or peugot, or some other shiatty euro brand like chrysler did with fiat


You're both incorrect.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/12/16/general-motors-g m- bailout-repayment/4043607/
http://business.time.com/2013/12/17/gm-ceo-were-not-paying-any-more- ba ck-to-government/
 
2014-05-12 02:54:23 PM  

Cyclometh: I love my Volt.

Driven about 8 thousand miles, put gas in it three times. Drives great, handles well, gotten good support from my dealer for the few minor issues it's had like the outlet cover sticking, and is super comfortable.


I want one, but I worry that It'll fit me like a clowncar
 
2014-05-12 02:54:42 PM  
Since technically GM and Ford are the only American car companies left, isn't one of them going to be the best and the other the worst
 
2014-05-12 02:54:45 PM  

loonatic112358: Flargan: LazyMedia: All of the competition is subsidized by their home countries. When a car company dies, you don't get more and better competition, you just get one fewer car company.

^This

I don't think people know how awful Toyota was in its early days. (They narrowly avoided bankruptcy and needed government support to put them back on track.)

At one time Japan made the cheap crap, now they make they make good stuff, then korea and taiwan made cheap crap now they don't now china does, except they're getting better


Eventually we'll run out of other countries and it'll be our turn again


China and India are making absolute garbage cars right now, but all the dang prosperity is hurting their sales. Chinese people would rather own a clapped out used Buick than a new Chinese-made car.
 
2014-05-12 02:55:43 PM  

vudukungfu: Slaves2Darkness: All those libby libs wanted socialism well guess what? You got it, bastard American style.

I'm not a Farking LIBBY LIB. I only LIVE IN VERMONT!.
I'm FOR THE DEATH PENALTY, for shiat's sakes.
Jesus jumping christ on a pogo stick.
Fark this whole farking country.
It's entirely populated with too many ignorant yayhoos.
Left, right, middle of the road, it doesn't matter what side they are on.
Jesus farking christ, if the farmer down the road fark up and farks his chickens to death, we don't give him a replacement farking farked to death chicken subsidy, now, do we?
DO WE?!!


Sorry to tell you this but thanks to insurance and other government programs we do actually do exactly that.
 
2014-05-12 02:55:47 PM  
As someone who's spouse works at TMMI, I'm getting a kick out of this thread.

My parents and his parents were long-time GM families. Then in the late 1990's GM's quality started to really decline around the time that their 1987 Silverado and 1987 Blazer were starting to get serious costly issues.. My parents switched to Chrysler, his switched to Toyota. My family has had a lemon Dodge Ram every year since 2000, every truck has some sort of electrical/ignition issue. His family still have their 2003 Tundra and Sequoia, with nearly 200k on the Tundra.

When I graduated high school I received a 1998 Chevy Monte Carlo. Gutless, worthless, rust bucket with bad electrical systems come to mind. I traded that off as soon as I could for a 2001 Toyota Camry...absolutely amazing car. Like a previous reviewer said, it felt like it was made for me. It was economical to drive, powerful engine, great handling, looked nice inside and out, and comfortable for our trans-continental trips every summer. We even managed to put a 1979 Chevy 305 engine in the trunk and haul it back home for my husband's project car restoration.

When we bought a new house out in the country with livestock, the necessity of 4WD and usefulness of a truck were needed. I traded my Camry in for a 2006 Tacoma. Good gas mileage for a truck, powerful enough to pull trailers, and it's not had a major issue in the 8 years I've owned it, and I'm nearing 100k miles. Hubby's truck is a 1993 T100 that's over 125k miles. The only issue it's had was that we had to replace the fuel tank that leaked, found one at a junkyard for $20 and spent an afternoon to fix it.

My parents are now on their 6th Dodge Ram, a 2012. The paint has had to be replaced in spots due to bubbling. It's had the ignition system replaced already. The stereo doesn't work if the truck isn't running, accessory on the ignition powers nothing. The sunroof doesn't work, and they've had the passenger side power windows and locks replaced.

They did try a 2006 Sequoia for a year, but dad declared it used too much fuel, that was his only critique. I fail to see how it could use more fuel than his current vehicle, but whatever. Their loss.
 
2014-05-12 02:56:34 PM  

loonatic112358: Cyclometh: I love my Volt.

Driven about 8 thousand miles, put gas in it three times. Drives great, handles well, gotten good support from my dealer for the few minor issues it's had like the outlet cover sticking, and is super comfortable.

I want one, but I worry that It'll fit me like a clowncar


I'm 6'4" and 225 pounds. The back seat is not exactly roomy (you won't get an adult behind you unless you want to squinch up a bit), but for the front seats it's fine.
 
2014-05-12 02:57:02 PM  

LazyMedia: Voiceofreason01: bdub77: Every time I step into a Toyota I feel like they built the car just for me

I've never driven a Toyota that I like. They're practical, economical, well designed and incredibly boring.

The Corolla SR-5 from the mid-'70s had a biatchin' cabin design; it was like a fighter cockpit with all the dials and stuff angled toward you. Other than that, though, yeah, they're pretty dull. For some reason, I prefer Hondas; they're pretty boring, too, but there's a slight Apple kind of a vibe to them.


Honda seems to style itself as the "sporty Toyota alternative".  I've still got my 2004 Mazda6 (192000 miles). Other than the fact the car itself is heavy, it's a fun ride. And I picked up a 2014 Mustang as well.
 
2014-05-12 02:57:10 PM  

cgraves67: The_EliteOne: No issues with my 2012 convertible camaro. Bought it with 12.5k miles on it. Just passed 25k.

All these poo-poo GM threads though, man they make me worry that issues are going to hit me like a truck very, very soon.

It's always right after the factory warranty expires.


New transmission and new rear differential 20k miles after warranty expiration fark GM
 
2014-05-12 02:57:45 PM  
After this recall BS, I will never buy GM again. They haven't even done anything to rectify the fact I could've died driving that car many times, other than make me wait 10 weeks to get it fixed and pay for the fixing only. Fark GM. I hope they go bankrupt
 
2014-05-12 02:58:41 PM  
GM's biggest mistake was getting rid of the Pontiac and Saturn lines. Pontiac gave you a high-performance engine at an afordable price. Saturn gave you a simple, affordable car with a simple, friendly buying experience. Those were about the only good things GM had going for it.

/My Saturn lasted 13 years before it started having major mechanical problems. It was smooth sailing before then and I was a very happy GM customer. I'd happily replace my Saturn with another Saturn if I could.
 
2014-05-12 02:59:16 PM  

mama2tnt: debug: You all realize this article is about how difficult it is for GM's suppliers to deal with them, right?  It's got nothing to do with consumers.

Not disputing that their end product is crap, just sayin'

Aw, shiat, we've got someone in here who actually read the linked article.

/Everyone hide!



Came here for this. Not surprising, farkers. Most of you voted for Odummer too, didn't you?
 
2014-05-12 03:00:29 PM  
well...i heard wrong...sorry...i had heard that gm did pay back the bailout money

perhaps i misheard? don't know...don't really care...not going to buy a gm, nor another ford, anyway
 
2014-05-12 03:00:30 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: GM's biggest mistake was getting rid of the Pontiac and Saturn lines. Pontiac gave you a high-performance engine at an afordable price. Saturn gave you a simple, affordable car with a simple, friendly buying experience. Those were about the only good things GM had going for it.

/My Saturn lasted 13 years before it started having major mechanical problems. It was smooth sailing before then and I was a very happy GM customer. I'd happily replace my Saturn with another Saturn if I could.


I'd love to see Pontiac reborn


Bring back the thunder chicken, use the phoenix rises or some other BS in advertisements
 
2014-05-12 03:01:38 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: Saturn gave you a simple, affordable car with a simple, friendly buying experience


My first new car purchase was a Saturn SL. Basic, simple car- 4 doors, no power anything and the basic cloth seats.

Lasted until last year when its transmission started leaking. Loved that car. I was pissed when GM flushed the Saturn brand down the toilet. I'd have bought another one, happily.
 
2014-05-12 03:02:00 PM  
I love Buicks. Donated my 1990 LeSabre at 223,000 miles, coming up on 100,000 miles in my 2005 LaCrosse.
 
2014-05-12 03:03:01 PM  
Is this the thread where everyone openly admits they suck at choosing cars?
 
2014-05-12 03:03:24 PM  

realmolo: I won't even get into the economics of buying a new car. Suffice it to say, a new car is pretty much the worst way to spend your money.


Lose 10 grand of their value the minute you drive them off the lot.
 
Really good investment.
 
2014-05-12 03:03:46 PM  

LazyMedia: Chinese people would rather own a clapped out used Buick than a new Chinese-made car.


I think it is closer to "Many Chinese people are accustomed to Bikes, Scooters, and Public transit".

It can take a few generations to create a car-culture.
 
2014-05-12 03:04:22 PM  
I've worked with many auto companies and Toyota was the best. They would send in Engineers and work with you until the parts were made perfect.
 
2014-05-12 03:05:05 PM  
The only "GM" I've ever owned was technically a Toyota.  It was a 1994 or 1996 (I can't remember) Geo Prizm, with the 1.6 liter engine and a 3 speed automatic (with overdrive!).  I thought of it as the king of shiatboxes.  What always blew me away about that car is that despite only weighing something like 2200 lbs, it was still slow as hell.

It was an ok car when we bought it in 2002, but by the time I got rid of it in 2007 it had a list of mechanical issues a mile long.  I decided to not dump any more money in it after the power steering pump burned up, so technically I sold it because it needed new tires.

I got 500 bucks for it, which is about 400 more than I expected to get, especially with over 160,000 miles on it.
 
2014-05-12 03:05:53 PM  
That GM bailout really paid off! I guess when GM fails again in a couple of years we'll just bail them out again!
 
2014-05-12 03:09:14 PM  
My wife and I bought a 2007 Pontiac Wave 3 years ago. It's the same thing as an Aveo, of course. We paid about $5K Canadian for the car, which was about as cheap as one could get for a 3 - 4 year old car with less than 100,000Km. It was all that we could afford, but it has been a decent little car for us.

My son, when he started driving, commented that our cute little Wave sounded like a Daiwoo. "This Pontiac sounds like a Daiwoo." Well, good ears m'boy, it IS a Daiwoo with a Pontiac badge on it. That made me laugh. He bought a 2007 low mileage Aveo recently, once again because it was something he could afford to buy and afford to fuel and reasonably reliable for a long commute. So, yes, we are Daiwoo owners.
 
2014-05-12 03:09:56 PM  
www.frugal-cafe.com
 
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