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(The Province)   One Canadian restaurateur plans to pay his servers a living wage, not justify the tip   (theprovince.com ) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Canadians, Lower Mainland, University of Guelph, The Province, hospitality industry  
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4592 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 May 2014 at 9:34 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-12 08:06:43 AM  
Unless this is some rich guy building a restaurant as a hobby and/or tax write off, I give him less than 2 years.
 
2014-05-12 08:41:43 AM  

gopher321: Unless this is some rich guy building a restaurant as a hobby and/or tax write off, I give him less than 2 years.


The fact that he's a neophyte tells me that he'll most likely fail.

I do have to give him props for paying a decent wage to his servers.  I can see other owners saying "we're not going to accept tips because we pay true minimum wage".  Which wouldn't attract any decent servers.  They've got to make much more than minimum to make up for losing their tip income.
 
2014-05-12 09:23:31 AM  
i273.photobucket.com
 
2014-05-12 09:37:37 AM  

BizarreMan: I can see other owners saying "we're not going to accept tips because we pay true minimum wage". Which wouldn't attract any decent servers. They've got to make much more than minimum to make up for losing their tip income.


Which is why waiter threads are so much fun. All the constant biatching about their minimum wage, but no one will accept salary because they lose so much undeclared cash income.

They're like fisherman in Louisiana, but with more teeth.
 
2014-05-12 09:38:49 AM  
I've never worked in the restaurant industry but why are the servers getting more than the cooks/chefs?
 
2014-05-12 09:42:52 AM  

hitmanric: I've never worked in the restaurant industry but why are the servers getting more than the cooks/chefs?


In general, tipped employees, (Front of the House), make a lot more than non-tipped, (Back of the House).  Always hes been, always will be.  Most BOH employees are back there for a reason - they don't like to deal with the public.

As for this guy - it ain't gonna work.  Even Canada isn't Europe.
 
2014-05-12 09:43:20 AM  
I thought all Canadians got a living wage, free health care and donuts on Thursday. When ever I go up to North Dakota, all I feel is smug floating across the border. I'd shoot my free Merican gun at them but I know Canuks have a nasty history of shooting back.
 
2014-05-12 09:53:10 AM  

This text is now purple: BizarreMan: I can see other owners saying "we're not going to accept tips because we pay true minimum wage". Which wouldn't attract any decent servers. They've got to make much more than minimum to make up for losing their tip income.

Which is why waiter threads are so much fun. All the constant biatching about their minimum wage, but no one will accept salary because they lose so much undeclared cash income.


Except for the fact that he's paying $20+ per hour.

That ain't no minimum wage.
 
2014-05-12 09:53:39 AM  

MooseBayou: hitmanric: I've never worked in the restaurant industry but why are the servers getting more than the cooks/chefs?

In general, tipped employees, (Front of the House), make a lot more than non-tipped, (Back of the House).  Always hes been, always will be.  Most BOH employees are back there for a reason - they don't like to deal with the public.

As for this guy - it ain't gonna work.  Even Canada isn't Europe.


I would also say unless your food is exceptional, the dining out "experience" is as much the interaction with your server and being served as much as the food... in some cases, even more.   Obviously in some restaurants, especially if the cook owns the place, or is "featured" by name, they probably are getting paid more than the wait staff.   But, otherwise, the cooks are not "interacting" with the diners except through the food, and for the most part is not discernible vs. what another cook could do.
 
2014-05-12 09:53:58 AM  

BizarreMan: gopher321: Unless this is some rich guy building a restaurant as a hobby and/or tax write off, I give him less than 2 years.

The fact that he's a neophyte tells me that he'll most likely fail.

I do have to give him props for paying a decent wage to his servers.  I can see other owners saying "we're not going to accept tips because we pay true minimum wage".  Which wouldn't attract any decent servers.  They've got to make much more than minimum to make up for losing their tip income.


You have 2 chief problems in the restaurant business if you do away with tips:

First: the person busting their ass, moving a bunch of tables, keeping up good relationships with customers, etc, no longer gets an added incentive than the waiter who is just dragging by. The good waiter is going to go elsewhere.

Secondly: Good luck getting staff who want to work friday nights, weekends, etc, you know, any time it is actually busy. Why would a waiter want to work on a saturday night when the place is slammed instead of a lazy monday afternoon, when they are going to get paid the same? 

Now you combine the two, and say, "well, we need to give our best people some incentive to work for us". Since you aren't going to be able to do it through any meaningful pay differential, your only choice is to give them the choice of shifts. So now your best people will be working your slowest times, and your scrubs will all be trying to handle a packed house on a friday night.

hitmanric: I've never worked in the restaurant industry but why are the servers getting more than the cooks/chefs?


Depends on the place, a REALLY nice restraunt? The head chef, who may not be the owner, is getting paid very well. Same with the other heads of the place. Your line staff in the back is making an ok living.

Applebees? Your wait staff is far more valuable to you than a guy who can read a bag and enter a time on a microwave. The guy in charge of the kitchen might be doing ok, but he is by no means a chef.
 
2014-05-12 09:55:49 AM  
will pay servers between $20 and $24 an hour and cooks $16 to $18 an hour

asshole.
 
2014-05-12 09:55:59 AM  
Gone are the days when the waitress can write on the bill "You know you want to give me the tip."

and this guy over-tipping.

dinosaurdracula.com
 
2014-05-12 09:58:59 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: I thought all Canadians got a living wage, free health care and donuts on Thursday. When ever I go up to North Dakota, all I feel is smug floating across the border. I'd shoot my free Merican gun at them but I know Canuks have a nasty history of shooting back.


Dental is only covered for minors in most provinces and medication coverage varies by the province. Many employers offer insurance plans that partially or completely cover dental, eyeglasses and prescription medication. Minimum wage is also set by individual provinces the average is over $10.00/hr I believe.  As for donuts, don't believe the hype our major donut chain makes really shiatty donuts.
 
2014-05-12 09:59:16 AM  
"It's a novel concept here, but a Canadian tipping expert thinks Jones may be on to something. "

what the fark?

seriously?  someone considers themselves this?
 
2014-05-12 09:59:20 AM  

BitwiseShift: Gone are the days when the waitress can write on the bill "You know you want to give me the tip."

and this guy over-tipping.


I love to play just the tip with hot servers.
 
2014-05-12 10:02:01 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: I thought all Canadians got a living wage, free health care and donuts on Thursday. When ever I go up to North Dakota, all I feel is smug floating across the border. I'd shoot my free Merican gun at them but I know Canuks have a nasty history of shooting back.


That may not be all that bad.  Last time we got them all riled up, they burned down the White House.  Maybe this time they can make it all the way to Congress before wandering off.
 
2014-05-12 10:03:54 AM  
"A newcomer to the restaurant scene ..."

...and soon to be failed business owner....

If this were possible, it would already be the norm. People will not tolerate the 18% higher menu prices even if they don't have to tip. There are still a lot of people out there who will tip two bucks for a $50 tab and think they are being generous.
 
2014-05-12 10:04:10 AM  

This text is now purple: Which is why waiter threads are so much fun. All the constant biatching about their minimum wage, but no one will accept salary because they lose so much undeclared cash income.


In this day and age, it really isn't much of an issue. Sure, Old Bessy at the greasy spoon diner might be sliding some income past the IRS, but anyone in a real restaurant is making a large percentage of their income on their tips off plastic, which the IRS knows about. They also very good at extrapolating your real income from that amount based off where you work.

CSB: The IRS likes to pick certain business types every so often to give a little extra scrutiny. One of their favorite places to go after is mom and pop pizzerias. Overwhelmingly cash businesses, even today. Favorites for the mob in laundering money. Usually relatively small owner operated operations. Basically the exact type of business you would want to run if you wanted people to have no idea how much money you had, or had questionable money that you wanted to be able to spend.

The way the IRS would be able to figure out, with scarily accurate results, how much business a pizzeria did, is by just figuring out how much of a few certain ingredients you buy. Flower used to be their favorite, because it has a long shelf life, you don't have a ton of waste, you don't have varying amounts you would use from operation to operation like cheese, etc. Based off how much flour you bought, they could figure out how many pizzas you were selling, and from there, estimate very well what the rest of your business was doing. Back in the late 90s pizzerias caught on to this, and black market flour operations sprung up. Places from NYC were buying it from the amish to hide their volume from the feds.

Anyway, my point is, the IRS knows very well what the waiter from your typical restaurant is making. If that person REALLY fudged their taxes by a few grand, they would be getting a letter from uncle sam, just like you would. If they fudge it by a few hundred bucks, they would most likely fly under the radar, because uncle sam has better things to do. The same is true for most people making a lower middle class income.
 
2014-05-12 10:07:37 AM  
[grumpy_cat_good.png]

/give this man a medal
//or a tip
 
2014-05-12 10:08:58 AM  
The problem that I see is that this will catch on in the US and restauranteurs will pay $8/hr and declare it a living wage.
 
2014-05-12 10:09:34 AM  
Good, everyone knows Canadians don't tip well

/"Canadians"
 
2014-05-12 10:10:32 AM  
there are 12000 people in parksville.
there are 12 pizza places.
there 274 pizza places in the area.


He is gonna have to have some DAMN good pizza for everyone to ignore the other places and come there...

BUT..BC is a pretentious enough place that people for the first year or so will actually drive there just to say they did.

I give him 2 years before he is on some sort of restaurant make over show and then another year to close.


20% mark up on pizza.. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
 
2014-05-12 10:11:53 AM  

toraque: That may not be all that bad. Last time we got them all riled up, they burned down the White House.


And the Americans burned York. Your point?

The only people who really lost the War of 1812 were the Indians.
 
2014-05-12 10:22:45 AM  

This text is now purple: The only people who really lost the War of 1812 were the Indians.


And those people who only got to listen to one version of the Johnny Horton song.
Here's a piece of the other

In eighteen-fourteen we took a little trip
Along with Colonel Packingham up to Mississipp'
We took a little bacon and we took a little beans
And we met the bloomy Rebels in the town of New Orleans.
 
2014-05-12 10:26:00 AM  
Thats one way to keep the poor out.
 
2014-05-12 10:33:37 AM  

MooseBayou: In general, tipped employees, (Front of the House), make a lot more than non-tipped, (Back of the House).  Always hes been, always will be.  Most BOH employees are back there for a reason - they don't like to deal with the public.


You sound like a waiter in a lousy chain restaurant. I worked kitchens for 10 years and never made less than double the wait staff, but then I also worked with nationally acclaimed chefs - not a bunch of illegals.

/the kitchen staff also has better drugs
//now get your ass out there with this shiat, it's backing up!
 
2014-05-12 10:34:33 AM  

hitmanric: I've never worked in the restaurant industry but why are the servers getting more than the cooks/chefs?


Tits.
 
2014-05-12 10:38:38 AM  
As a Canadian living in Korea, I hope this succeeds to the point where it catches on. I tipped to almost-American levels before leaving Canada, and I always hated the system but never wanted to be the douche that refused to tip a hardworking server "out of principle" (I also worked in restaurants myself, so there's that). I've really gotten spoiled by no-tipping restaurants here - in smaller cities/non-chain places, the owner and/or his family is usually serving the tables personally, so tipping is kind of a silly idea here.

I share the concern of others here that the menu prices will scare away folks that don't look twice to see the no-tip part, but I hope he does well.


/First article from the Province I've seen in a while that isn't populist fearmongering tabloid fare
 
2014-05-12 10:46:57 AM  
I thought that RevCan pretty-much assumed a "deemed income" for wait staff--they assume you're
  making tips, and tax you accordingly.  So the trick is to make more tips than RevCan will automatically
  assume that you're making anyway.
 
2014-05-12 11:00:56 AM  

LineNoise: You have 2 chief problems in the restaurant business if you do away with tips:

First: the person busting their ass, moving a bunch of tables, keeping up good relationships with customers, etc, no longer gets an added incentive than the waiter who is just dragging by. The good waiter is going to go elsewhere.

Secondly: Good luck getting staff who want to work friday nights, weekends, etc, you know, any time it is actually busy. Why would a waiter want to work on a saturday night when the place is slammed instead of a lazy monday afternoon, when they are going to get paid the same? 

Now you combine the two, and say, "well, we need to give our best people some incentive to work for us". Since you aren't going to be able to do it through any meaningful pay differential, your only choice is to give them the choice of shifts. So now your best people will be working your slowest times, and your scrubs will all be trying to handle a packed house on a friday night.


A whole lot of this.  Back in the day Fridays and Saturdays were the days I actually made good cash on a single shift.  Monday-Wednesdays I'd pick up doubles and I'd be lucky to match a 3rd-cut Friday.
 
2014-05-12 11:03:31 AM  

Hiro-ACiD: MooseBayou: In general, tipped employees, (Front of the House), make a lot more than non-tipped, (Back of the House).  Always hes been, always will be.  Most BOH employees are back there for a reason - they don't like to deal with the public.

You sound like a waiter in a lousy chain restaurant. I worked kitchens for 10 years and never made less than double the wait staff, but then I also worked with nationally acclaimed chefs - not a bunch of illegals.

/the kitchen staff also has better drugs
//now get your ass out there with this shiat, it's backing up!


And you sound like a sweaty line cook.

/Former Maitre D' at a four-star resort.
//CSB
 
2014-05-12 11:04:29 AM  

LineNoise: BizarreMan: gopher321: Unless this is some rich guy building a restaurant as a hobby and/or tax write off, I give him less than 2 years.

The fact that he's a neophyte tells me that he'll most likely fail.

I do have to give him props for paying a decent wage to his servers.  I can see other owners saying "we're not going to accept tips because we pay true minimum wage".  Which wouldn't attract any decent servers.  They've got to make much more than minimum to make up for losing their tip income.

You have 2 chief problems in the restaurant business if you do away with tips:

First: the person busting their ass, moving a bunch of tables, keeping up good relationships with customers, etc, no longer gets an added incentive than the waiter who is just dragging by. The good waiter is going to go elsewhere.

Secondly: Good luck getting staff who want to work friday nights, weekends, etc, you know, any time it is actually busy. Why would a waiter want to work on a saturday night when the place is slammed instead of a lazy monday afternoon, when they are going to get paid the same?

Now you combine the two, and say, "well, we need to give our best people some incentive to work for us". Since you aren't going to be able to do it through any meaningful pay differential, your only choice is to give them the choice of shifts. So now your best people will be working your slowest times, and your scrubs will all be trying to handle a packed house on a friday night.


Works in Japan.  Which is one of the reasons I love the place.  The servers (and all the restaurant staff) are actually invested in you having a good dining experience because they WANT you to come back.  Repeat customers means the restaurant stays open, which means they keep their jobs.
 
2014-05-12 11:31:54 AM  

patchvonbraun: I thought that RevCan pretty-much assumed a "deemed income" for wait staff--they assume you're
  making tips, and tax you accordingly.  So the trick is to make more tips than RevCan will automatically
  assume that you're making anyway.


I'm not a tax accountant, so this is in NO way to be taken as anything other than simply my opinion, but with him stating that he's setting menu prices 18% higher to accommodate the no tipping policy, I -think- in this case it would work the same way it does for "large party" mandatory gratuities elsewhere: for tax purposes it would be all be considered controlled (ie paid out by the employer rather than received directly from the customer) tips. On his employee's T4s I think he'd still have to break it down into base wage and controlled tip amounts, for example for a server making $20/hour the tax forms would report a base wage of $16.40, with the remainder of their annual income being reported as controlled tips. The biggest difference is that controlled tips are subject to payroll taxes (CPP and EI), whereas direct tips are not. If he doesn't break it down that way and just reports hourly income and doesn't report any controlled tips, his staff may find themselves having to hope CRA takes their/his word for it that they're not receiving direct tips if they end up facing tax bills and/or audits for failing to report tips.
 
2014-05-12 01:00:15 PM  
images.huffingtonpost.com

This lady went undercover as a cocktail waitresses in Vegas. Discovered that $500 - $1,000 a shift in tips was average. So, the argument of living wage is dumb as axle bearings. It depends where you work, and like anything else, you want more ..  go where there's more to be got.

Restaurant owner is article is properly known as 'broke' in his new politically correct scheme.
 
2014-05-12 01:45:36 PM  

RockofAges: I guess I shouldn't say "anyone", as Fark is notoriously aspie / pedantic. There are exemptions to the min wage law, but they mostly surround family farming (ie. farmboy at age 14 can work for a bit less than minimum for pappy), non-citizens (Temporary Foreign Workers, NOW an issue in America's Hat!), and apprentices / academic work terms.


Grandpa:  "OK, boys, it's tax time.  If anyone from CRA comes sniffing around, I paid you all  thismuch to work on the farm."

Dad and uncles:  "Cool!  So when do we get the money?"

Grandpa:  *laughter OL*
 
2014-05-12 02:19:56 PM  
Ignoring the "hur marginal prices will go up as much as wages!" tards, why is there a mentality that some jobs are less "deserving" of living wages than others? I see it all the time, "burger cooks don't deserve enough money to live on!"

I mean they're usually not saying it in those words, but the idea really is that people doing simple jobs don't deserve any respectable pay for it, and nobody can ever really explain why beyond simple, spectacular greed.
 
2014-05-12 02:41:34 PM  

NateAsbestos: Ignoring the "hur marginal prices will go up as much as wages!" tards, why is there a mentality that some jobs are less "deserving" of living wages than others? I see it all the time, "burger cooks don't deserve enough money to live on!"

I mean they're usually not saying it in those words, but the idea really is that people doing simple jobs don't deserve any respectable pay for it, and nobody can ever really explain why beyond simple, spectacular greed.


burger cook..  training... 10 minutes to 1 hour depending on how dumb you are
pushing broom.. training.. 10 minutes to 1 hour depending on how dumb you are

pushing a needle into someone arm.. nurse training... 2 to 4 years.. depending on which discipline you choose


lets see.... I dunno.. maybe its because we are not all communists and expect people who's job is harder to get paid more?

also...  minimum wage in Canada is a LIVING wage.. as long as you are not greedy and decide you need a phone, car, PS3, need to smoke, do drugs, buy extremely expensive clothes and electronics...
 
2014-05-12 02:41:58 PM  

MooseBayou: hitmanric: I've never worked in the restaurant industry but why are the servers getting more than the cooks/chefs?

In general, tipped employees, (Front of the House), make a lot more than non-tipped, (Back of the House).  Always hes been, always will be.  Most BOH employees are back there for a reason - they don't like to deal with the public.

As for this guy - it ain't gonna work.  Even Canada isn't Europe.

 That might be true for places that have cooks.  It's laughably wrong for any place that has a chef.  The highest paid employee at any good restaurant is the chef.  Followed by management, then servers, then BOH.
My personal opinion is that most servers are desperately overpaid.  But then I start thinking how much you would have to pay me to be nice to random people off the street, and I'm not so sure anymore.
 
2014-05-12 02:49:10 PM  

NateAsbestos: Ignoring the "hur marginal prices will go up as much as wages!" tards, why is there a mentality that some jobs are less "deserving" of living wages than others? I see it all the time, "burger cooks don't deserve enough money to live on!"

I mean they're usually not saying it in those words, but the idea really is that people doing simple jobs don't deserve any respectable pay for it, and nobody can ever really explain why beyond simple, spectacular greed.


1) if you pay the burger flipper more, it raises the "base wages", which causes inflation
2) If you pay the burger flipper the same as a skilled job, you've destroyed the market for that skilled job.
3) Entry level jobs pay entry level income (which is not usually "livable")  Get a roommate, buy a used car and cancel your 300$ cable/phone package.

It has nothing to do with "deserving" and everything to do with EARNING.  If your qualifications are "can operate a cash register", you really shouldn't expect more than minimum wage, and frankly you should be happy that's as high as it is.

Our economy and society are set up in such a way that entry level jobs aren't supposed to be held by skilled people for very long.  The skilled people move up, the idiots stay put.  Each gets what they worked for.

If the guy at BK making my burger gets $15/hr, that means my burger goes up another 50%, which means I'll go somewhere else to eat.  And your "living wage" high school drop out working at BK gets laid off, and the location gets closed.  At which point your living wage has actually DECREASED your income.

This is economics 101, maybe you should know something about it before you ask self serving questions.
 
2014-05-12 02:49:29 PM  

kvinesknows: lets see.... I dunno.. maybe its because we are not all communists and expect people who's job is harder to get paid more?


Nowhere did I say the guy cooking burgers should be living like an RN or a lawyer. Nice red herring though.
 
2014-05-12 02:50:46 PM  

Kahabut: If the guy at BK making my burger gets $15/hr, that means my burger goes up another 50%, which means I'll go somewhere else to eat.


Kahabut: This is economics 101, maybe you should know something about it before you ask self serving questions.


Funny
 
2014-05-12 02:57:21 PM  

NateAsbestos: Kahabut: If the guy at BK making my burger gets $15/hr, that means my burger goes up another 50%, which means I'll go somewhere else to eat.

Kahabut: This is economics 101, maybe you should know something about it before you ask self serving questions.

Funny


It wasn't intentional, but hey, I'll take what I can get.
 
2014-05-12 02:57:47 PM  

NateAsbestos: kvinesknows: lets see.... I dunno.. maybe its because we are not all communists and expect people who's job is harder to get paid more?

Nowhere did I say the guy cooking burgers should be living like an RN or a lawyer. Nice red herring though.


you are also no where saying what you think living wages mean

"living wages" means fark all and a whole lot of nothing.
 
2014-05-12 03:17:46 PM  

kvinesknows: NateAsbestos: kvinesknows: lets see.... I dunno.. maybe its because we are not all communists and expect people who's job is harder to get paid more?

Nowhere did I say the guy cooking burgers should be living like an RN or a lawyer. Nice red herring though.

you are also no where saying what you think living wages mean

"living wages" means fark all and a whole lot of nothing.


Okay, living wages are enough to feed, house, and clothe yourself with bare basics, and pay for healthcare since we in the US are deadset against single payer.

I believe everyone who works for a living should have this.
 
2014-05-12 03:23:03 PM  
That guy is going to have a hard time getting and keeping waitstaff considering they can get about $10/hr +tips everywhere else.
 
2014-05-12 03:53:06 PM  
Instead of tipping, Jones has increased menu prices by about 18 per cent

So how is this any different than customers paying an 18% tip?
 
2014-05-12 03:56:03 PM  

NateAsbestos: kvinesknows: NateAsbestos: kvinesknows: lets see.... I dunno.. maybe its because we are not all communists and expect people who's job is harder to get paid more?

Nowhere did I say the guy cooking burgers should be living like an RN or a lawyer. Nice red herring though.

you are also no where saying what you think living wages mean

"living wages" means fark all and a whole lot of nothing.

Okay, living wages are enough to feed, house, and clothe yourself with bare basics, and pay for healthcare since we in the US are deadset against single payer.

I believe everyone who works for a living should have this.


Well you can't.  Get over it.
 
2014-05-12 04:00:14 PM  

NateAsbestos: Okay, living wages are enough to feed, house, and clothe yourself with bare basics, and pay for healthcare since we in the US are deadset against single payer. I believe everyone who works for a living should have this.

And you're willing to pay the necessary higher consumer prices to support this system, right?
 
2014-05-12 04:06:35 PM  

NateAsbestos: kvinesknows: NateAsbestos: kvinesknows: lets see.... I dunno.. maybe its because we are not all communists and expect people who's job is harder to get paid more?

Nowhere did I say the guy cooking burgers should be living like an RN or a lawyer. Nice red herring though.

you are also no where saying what you think living wages mean

"living wages" means fark all and a whole lot of nothing.

Okay, living wages are enough to feed, house, and clothe yourself with bare basics, and pay for healthcare since we in the US are deadset against single payer.

I believe everyone who works for a living should have this.


one bedroom suite in parksville BC. $680.

40 X 4 x 10.25 = $1640

probably about 20% tax bracket to take home is about 1300 per month.

1300-680 leave about $620 for food and clothing.

the average person can EASILY eat for $10 to $15 per day ( way less if they dont buy crap )


leaves about $200 for clothing and toiletries


its canada ( although BC ) so most of the healthcare is free. but making under 24K per year their healthcare premiums are about $12 per month.


they arent at a living wage?  huh.. seems like it to me.
 
2014-05-12 04:30:30 PM  

kvinesknows: they arent at a living wage?  huh.. seems like it to me.

 
In Canada, sure. I was talking about equivalent jobs in America

Kahabut: Well you can't.  Get over it.


Bullshiat, there's no inherent reason it's impossible.


Loadmaster: NateAsbestos: Okay, living wages are enough to feed, house, and clothe yourself with bare basics, and pay for healthcare since we in the US are deadset against single payer. I believe everyone who works for a living should have this.
And you're willing to pay the necessary higher consumer prices to support this system, right?


Prices wouldn't need to go up substantially to meet that goal I posted. But yes, I would.

Or are we pretending Canada is an unlivable hellhole, since as Knivesknows pointed out they seem to fit that bill?
 
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