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(Daily Mail)   Good news for you anti-family heathens, the modern American family continues to die   (dailymail.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Americans, Ed O'Neill, Michael Sams, extended family, divorce rates  
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5631 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 May 2014 at 2:50 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-11 11:03:49 PM  
8 votes:
I guess it's a good thing that more and more folks are getting their right to marry to shore up the numbers of families then. Marriage equality: good for families, good for America...

Seriously, though: women working were supposed to destroy families. Children going to college instead of working their family businesses without higher education was supposed to gut our economy and families. Dark folks getting equal protection was supposed to destroy America. Immigrants coming in, with their strange customs and strong familial values was going to gut the social fabric of the nation.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Marriage equality has led to stronger community ties for a fair chunk of the population--and investment into homes, into businesses, and oddly enough, cater waiters and banquet hall rentals. The family is doing just fine. What is coming into focus is that when both folks are working--and they have to in order to keep food on the table and rent or mortgages paid--is that there aren't stay at home parents, but a sharing of responsibilities. Which, oddly enough, is moving more and more up the chain into the middle class, as opposed to being just a feature for the poors. Families are just fine, but economic pressures are taking their toll. If you want stronger families, and you want more folks going to church or the stuff of campfire tales of "how America used to be" then we need to look at the economic disparity that we are seeing, cash flight as larger and larger banks and chains siphon cash OUT of communities, and leave behind only minimal job numbers, and increase local investment and entrepreneurship. Which means, yes, more competition, more trading of cash back and forth between local businesses, and less for the chains and larger conglomerates who have taken to sucking cash well and away from where it's needed.

Maybe that's a hard concept for folks. You want "stronger" families, then we need decent health care so that folks can care for their elderly, as opposed to shipping them off to homes and hospitals and care facilities. We need better economic safeguards, and we need better investment strategies than "buy stocks and hope." We need to maybe stop the recockulous "War on Drugs" that ships off folks to prison at a frightening rate, and leaving families without half a parental unit, or worse, both parents in different prisons, and relying on a foster system, or grandparents or other relatives to care for kids. Stronger economic incentives, stronger protections, means that families are less stressed, have more time with one another, and with stronger ties to a community.

But you bring these long term strategies up, it's not "Conservative" enough, instead we have to look at breaking up families, forcing them to work even harder to keep jobs that simply don't pay, don't allow for time to actually invest time and energy into their community or their own businesses. You want that idyllic America that everyone yearns for? The one that never really existed? Then we need to put down the corporate hype, and start looking at the long term economic health of the country, not just the health of organizations and businesses that want to ship as many jobs elsewhere as possible, concentrate cash well and away from our communities, and rebuild main street NOT with an influx of massive building projects, but localized growth that can be sustained, and will grow--as opposed to creating building booms that don't actually have much for long term prospects...
2014-05-12 12:21:31 PM  
2 votes:

Aarontology: What the hell does that survey question even mean?


It's a good indication that all the  "gays and liberals are destroying the American family" propaganda is working.  "No, the American family may not be disintegrating in any real sense, but we've convinced people that it has, so we're winning."

Meanwhile, The Way We Never Were would be a good antidote, except the people who most need to read it probably never will.
2014-05-12 02:13:37 AM  
2 votes:
I dont care how many protons or neutrons are in the nuclear family, but I do think it's a good practice to have one or the other around full time to care for the electrons.

/did that metaphor work?
2014-05-12 01:13:14 AM  
2 votes:
Maybe we should stop polling people on what they believe and poll them on whether they know what is it is not true instead.
2014-05-12 01:00:26 AM  
2 votes:
I think the idea of the American Nuclear Family has outlived its usefulness. It's time to think about family in a different way -- larger scale -- "villages."

"Family-values" type people hate that idea, too, because they don't get to exercise their patriarchal, abusive bullshiat.
img.fark.net
2014-05-11 10:31:04 PM  
2 votes:
What the hell does that survey question even mean?
2014-05-12 12:53:57 PM  
1 vote:
97% of that question was highly subjective as well as the drawn conclusions.
2014-05-12 11:46:03 AM  
1 vote:

on the road: ecmoRandomNumbers: "Family-values" type people hate that idea, too, because they don't get to exercise their patriarchal, abusive bullshiat.

"Family-values"  = abusive?

/Jesus


When you use "Family values" the way Conservatives use it, yes.
2014-05-12 08:03:38 AM  
1 vote:

Mr. Right: Mugato: Mr. Right: It is frequently narcissism and selfishness that leads to divorce.  Narcissism is also at odds with any family values.

Yeah, the good old days when you married someone right out of high school whose locker happened to be next to yours and you stayed together for the sake of the kids, that always worked out.

I think, if you read carefully, you'll notice that the data shows that completing one's education, getting at least a good start on a career or occupation, then marrying and then having kids is the most successful.

Back during the Clinton era, I think it was Berkeley that came out with a study that, contrary to the prevailing opinion of "it's better to be from a broken home than in one," parents who could put their selfishness aside and stay together "for the kids" actually did turn out more emotionally stable, successful kids.  But again, part of doing it for the kids had to include respect for the spouse and sublimation of one's narcissistic impulses.

Narcissism is a mental condition.  All children are born with it.  As people mature and become aware of others, they are supposed to grow out of it.  Unfortunately, many do not.


Back in the days when high school sweethearts married, high school graduation WAS a complete education and all you needed to get your start in the careers available. So now the most stable marriages are between people who meet in college and marry a few years after graduation. Mostly that's because graduating college requires some minimum level of functionality, and having that degree lowers one's chances of unemployment and the marriage-wrecking stress that goes with it.

Also, putting selfishness aside and co-operating to raise the kids... turns out more emotionally stable children of divorce too.
Now, I don't understand why couples opt for divorce if they can work together that well, but I'm not in their bedrooms, so I don't expect to get it.
2014-05-12 06:59:38 AM  
1 vote:

Mr. Right: In my opinion, the narcissistic lack of commitment has a far more deleterious effect on families than race, economic standing, or sexual orientation. That selfishness comes in all colors, religions, occupations, and social strata.


I dont often agree with you (I've been paying attention) but I agree with this.
2014-05-12 06:50:07 AM  
1 vote:

namatad: doesnt gay marriage fit closely with all the family value NUTS!!!


Your characterization of those who support family values as NUTS is extremely offensive but put that aside.  Marriage, gay or straight, in and of itself does nothing for family values.  Family values are supported when the parents are together and established before they have kids and then stay together and raise the kids.  Situations where the parents are both the natural parents tend to be very slightly more successful.  Parents who have children and then divorce are putting children at economic risk because what is the same income pool needs to support two homes.  The highest rate of parental child abuse tends to come from step-parents.   But parents who never marry have only a single digit chance of NOT raising their children in poverty.

It would make sense to me, then, that a compassionate society would do everything it can to promote and support what we know works and try to avoid what doesn't work while steering those on a bad path to a better path.

All of that has a lot less to do with whether the parents are gay or straight and a lot more to do with the parents' commitment to each other and to the children.  That commitment is frequently at odds with one's narrow self-interest.  Therein lies the rub.  It is my opinion that today's society is becoming increasingly narcissistic.  It is frequently narcissism and selfishness that leads to divorce.  Narcissism is also at odds with any family values.

Starting with "The Greatest Generation" we have tended to raise children that are more narcissistic.  Through the generations, one can always find plenty of examples of 'not narcissists' but, in my opinion, the trend is growing.  The "everybody gets a trophy" mentality will not serve the upcoming generations well.

In my opinion, the narcissistic lack of commitment has a far more deleterious effect on families than race, economic standing, or sexual orientation.  That selfishness comes in all colors, religions, occupations, and social strata.
2014-05-12 03:52:30 AM  
1 vote:
Good. This isn't 1953, and we don't all need to eat at the table together.
2014-05-12 01:13:00 AM  
1 vote:
Ah, yes, more "things were better in my day" BS

I wonder if the respondents realize that if things are worse off now than when they were kids it means that they are the ones who dropped the ball.

Stop whining and spend more time with your kids, asshats.
2014-05-11 11:54:25 PM  
1 vote:

hubiestubert: Aarontology: fusillade762: Aarontology: What the hell does that survey question even mean?

I wondered that as well. Define "weaker".

The only thing I can think of is divorce rate.

No, it's just the usual subjective bullsh*t poll to push/pull folks into camps, to point to use as "numbers" to "show" how terrible things are, and have those numbers to prove their point. It's essentially polling to have something to cite later on. They say 65% of all statistics are made up right there on the spot...


That's what I assumed. The divorce thing is the only "real" evidence I could think people were using for their answer.
2014-05-11 11:46:23 PM  
1 vote:

Aarontology: fusillade762: Aarontology: What the hell does that survey question even mean?

I wondered that as well. Define "weaker".

The only thing I can think of is divorce rate.


No, it's just the usual subjective bullsh*t poll to push/pull folks into camps, to point to use as "numbers" to "show" how terrible things are, and have those numbers to prove their point. It's essentially polling to have something to cite later on. They say 65% of all statistics are made up right there on the spot...
 
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