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(PBS)   F. Buckminster Fuller rides again   (pbs.org ) divider line
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8119 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 May 2014 at 4:38 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-11 01:52:13 PM  
"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."

- F. Buckminster Fuller
 
2014-05-11 02:12:04 PM  
Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

-Tom Smykowski
 
2014-05-11 04:42:42 PM  
www.jimallison.com
 
2014-05-11 04:44:50 PM  
R. Buckminster Fuller,  subby
 
2014-05-11 04:45:40 PM  
Don't you dare shoot Bucky balls out of my monitor!
 
2014-05-11 04:45:41 PM  
That guy's got real balls!
 
2014-05-11 04:46:54 PM  

TwoHead: Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

-Tom Smykowski


Tom...how's it going? Listen, if you could just stay home from now on, that'd be great.

-Bill Lumbergh
 
2014-05-11 04:48:16 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: "We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."

- F. Buckminster Fuller


I'll get the lights.
 
2014-05-11 04:50:45 PM  
So all of those ads claiming stay at home moms making $150k a year working 15 hours a week are legitimate?
 
2014-05-11 04:52:58 PM  
F?

Does he know he has a cousin who's a famous architect?
 
2014-05-11 04:53:19 PM  

grumpfuff: InterruptingQuirk: "We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."

- F. Buckminster Fuller

I'll get the lights.


What just because you have a job?!, makes you think you can do whatever you want!, are you a republican?

/That was unfortunately not sarcastic in any way
//I'll be hiding in my lead lined fridge...
///Watched that last night,...Sad...
 
2014-05-11 04:53:20 PM  

99.998er: So all of those ads claiming stay at home moms making $150k a year working 15 hours a week are legitimate?


Yes.  Yes they are.
 
2014-05-11 04:55:32 PM  
Hmm, I scrounge for things that other people want, but don't want to spend the relatively huge amount of time searching for such things. Between a large number of randomly scrounged items and large number of scroungers, we find even the most obscure of items that people are willing to pay for. And as long as the number of scroungers doesn't get much higher than it currently is a good number of us make decent incomes from short weeks. In theory we could be replaced by everyone listing their shiat and doing their own fulfillment, but there's a benefit to scale and knowing the market.

Now, explain to me the value of a door to door salesman for a cable company that saturates the market with their advertising?

Actually, next time a Time Warner guy knocks at my door I'll ask him. I've told people to quit their jobs.

And there should be a permitting process by which I can hunt MBAs.
 
2014-05-11 04:56:43 PM  

albatros183: grumpfuff: InterruptingQuirk: "We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."

- F. Buckminster Fuller

I'll get the lights.

What just because you have a job?!, makes you think you can do whatever you want!, are you a republican?

/That was unfortunately not sarcastic in any way


Wait...um...what?

albatros183: //I'll be hiding in my lead lined fridge...
///Watched that last night,...Sad...


Ohhh, you're still suffering from head trauma from watching that. Got it.
 
2014-05-11 04:57:37 PM  
author sounds like a multislacker, tl;dr
 
2014-05-11 04:59:56 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: "We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."

- F. Buckminster Fuller


Cool. Write me a check.
 
2014-05-11 05:04:40 PM  

grumpfuff: albatros183: grumpfuff: InterruptingQuirk: "We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."

- F. Buckminster Fuller

I'll get the lights.

What just because you have a job?!, makes you think you can do whatever you want!, are you a republican?

/That was unfortunately not sarcastic in any way

Wait...um...what?

albatros183: //I'll be hiding in my lead lined fridge...
///Watched that last night,...Sad...

Ohhh, you're still suffering from head trauma from watching that. Got it.


I wish.

But no, I live in the world where people advance because of connections and arbitrary payments, so sad, so pathetic, it  gives us people that are worthless, cannot be justified by even failing a Darwin award, it's sick, and not only pukeable but end of the world gross..

I have a garbage can near me, and have used it...
 
2014-05-11 05:05:21 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: InterruptingQuirk: "We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."

- F. Buckminster Fuller

Cool. Write me a check.


Buy some stock

http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm
 
2014-05-11 05:06:46 PM  
I do wonder if we're going to continue on this trend. I mean, most of the work in most jobs could feasibly be done by automation in the future, either robotic or more advanced software. How long is it until there's diminishing returns on hiring skilled people? There's going to be, at least for the foreseeable future, jobs that only humans can do, but eventually that number of jobs is going to be outnumbered drastically by the number of people looking for jobs. And if we are just making up jobs, how long is that going to last?
 
2014-05-11 05:11:32 PM  
I do about three hours of work a day max.  However no one else could do it so I'm kind of indispensable plus it would take most people a full day.  Luckily I'm judged on the output of my work, no one cares how long it takes.

/yay tribal knowledge
 
2014-05-11 05:15:56 PM  
Very droll. Problem is, everybody has to eat, drink, and take a dump somewhere to survive, and our supplies of edible food, safe drinking water, and places designed to safely process our waste products without poisoning the environment are limited.

In the Carbonifreous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay the collective Paul.
But although we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money would buy.
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said, "If you don't work, you die."
 
2014-05-11 05:20:13 PM  
Well, I generally come in at least fifteen minutes late, ah, I use the side door - that way Lumbergh can't see me, heh heh - and, uh, after that I just sorta space out for about an hour. I just stare at my desk; but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch, too. I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work.
 
2014-05-11 05:21:34 PM  
Capitalism is a fine way to distribute limited goods/services to a limited populous, where people are needed to create those goods and services. It is not set up to handle a) infinite goods (the internet), b) things that are needed by everyone (food, energy), and c) things not created by people (automation). Socialism helps with (b), but so far all we've come up for (a) is to artificially limit distribution, and for (c) is to try and retrain workers that have lost their jobs to automation (which is becoming harder to do as more things become automated).
 
2014-05-11 05:21:58 PM  
Once upon as time I used to write programs and was good at it. Gradually the job evolved so we were putting in estimates where development was about 20% of the cost. I had to do some of the other 80% which I was not good at and hated doing. As we were now charging way too much and taking way too long the work dried up. End of job.
 
2014-05-11 05:32:38 PM  
What the duck am I reading?

They can get people so angry at auto-workers, just because they make 30 bucks an hour, which is like nowhere near what corporate lawyers make, but nobody seems to resent them. They get angry at the auto-workers; they get angry at teachers. They don't get angry at school administrators, who actually make more money.

You're listening to the wrong people then. There's a whole nother crowd that things exactly the opposite of this.
 
2014-05-11 05:34:32 PM  

CruJones: I do about three hours of work a day max.  However no one else could do it so I'm kind of indispensable plus it would take most people a full day.  Luckily I'm judged on the output of my work, no one cares how long it takes.

/yay tribal knowledge

keep patting yourself on the back ace. there are a million people that can do your job, and will do it for less.
hope they never figure out whatever you do is so special.
/no one is indispensable, I hope you learn it sooner then later.

 
2014-05-11 05:37:12 PM  
We have a traditional model which has served society so far - basically "If you don't hunt/work, you don't eat."

But there are good grounds for thinking that this model is breaking - perhaps there are never going enough jobs for all, let alone satisfying jobs

The disagreement comes with what we do about it

Do we give everyone a stipend, so that a guy can live on the beach and go surfing every day?

(And pay for it with a tax on the super-rich?)

Do we create make-work jobs, like building highways with barrows and shovel technology?

Do we hand out the soma to keep the proles pacified?
 
2014-05-11 05:43:16 PM  

mjjt: We have a traditional model which has served society so far - basically "If you don't hunt/work, you don't eat."

But there are good grounds for thinking that this model is breaking - perhaps there are never going enough jobs for all, let alone satisfying jobs

The disagreement comes with what we do about it

Do we give everyone a stipend, so that a guy can live on the beach and go surfing every day?

(And pay for it with a tax on the super-rich?)

Do we create make-work jobs, like building highways with barrows and shovel technology?

Do we hand out the soma to keep the proles pacified?


Stipend and soma please
 
2014-05-11 05:50:13 PM  

mjjt: Do we hand out the soma to keep the proles pacified?


We can probably afford paper jumpsuits, housing projects and people-kibble.  And yes, drug the hell out of them.  I like keeping my pink goo in the ole noggin.


Meanwhile I'll be stuck working on the damn automation, same as the last 30 years.
 
2014-05-11 05:54:17 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Capitalism is a fine way to distribute limited goods/services to a limited populous, where people are needed to create those goods and services. It is not set up to handle a) infinite goods (the internet), b) things that are needed by everyone (food, energy), and c) things not created by people (automation). Socialism helps with (b), but so far all we've come up for (a) is to artificially limit distribution, and for (c) is to try and retrain workers that have lost their jobs to automation (which is becoming harder to do as more things become automated).


It handles infinite goods and needed items just fine, just not the way anti-capitalists want them to be handled. The problem is, reality itself won't let these things be handled the way anti-capitalists want them to be handled, and reality also can't be overridden by any man-made law or logical construction. So the anti-capitalists are doomed to fail, and all they can possibly accomplish is destroying capitalism (also an imaginary construct, and can and has been destroyed is places like Soviet Russia etc.) and replacing it with nothing, instead of with the "social improvement" of whatever ideology is currently popular.

/since reality can't be made perfect, reality must be destroyed
//and since we can't destroy reality, we can at least destroy all the creatures that live in it
///we can even convince ourselves that this is the right thing to do, putting the entire human race out of the misery imposed by reality
 
2014-05-11 05:55:08 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: R. Buckminster Fuller,  subby


Oops, thanx.
 
2014-05-11 05:55:27 PM  
It's the Shoe Event Horizon, writ large - an vast layer of Administrivialists impeding actual productivity.
 
2014-05-11 05:56:11 PM  

mjjt: We have a traditional model which has served society so far - basically "If you don't hunt/work, you don't eat."

But there are good grounds for thinking that this model is breaking - perhaps there are never going enough jobs for all, let alone satisfying jobs

The disagreement comes with what we do about it

Do we give everyone a stipend, so that a guy can live on the beach and go surfing every day?

(And pay for it with a tax on the super-rich?)

Do we create make-work jobs, like building highways with barrows and shovel technology?

Do we hand out the soma to keep the proles pacified?


There are cities being built in China and other countries that nobody lives in, complete ghost cities.  They are make work projects so people have jobs.  So we are currently attempting that solution, and it is a very very temporary fix.
 
2014-05-11 06:01:47 PM  

Jeng: mjjt: We have a traditional model which has served society so far - basically "If you don't hunt/work, you don't eat."

But there are good grounds for thinking that this model is breaking - perhaps there are never going enough jobs for all, let alone satisfying jobs

The disagreement comes with what we do about it

Do we give everyone a stipend, so that a guy can live on the beach and go surfing every day?

(And pay for it with a tax on the super-rich?)

Do we create make-work jobs, like building highways with barrows and shovel technology?

Do we hand out the soma to keep the proles pacified?

There are cities being built in China and other countries that nobody lives in, complete ghost cities.  They are make work projects so people have jobs.  So we are currently attempting that solution, and it is a very very temporary fix.


(I think they are mainly a result of corrupt profiteering - local pols confiscate farmers land, sell to speculators in return for bribes, speculators onsell to developers who hope that "If you build, they will come" and sometimes come unstuck)

Sometimes you could just redirect budgets.

What would happen if you released all the guys in prison for minor drug offences, and used the money saved to hire them to build/repair roads?
 
2014-05-11 06:02:45 PM  
His brush salesmen used to be a pain in the ass.
 
2014-05-11 06:05:33 PM  

grumpfuff: InterruptingQuirk: "We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."

- F. Buckminster Fuller

I'll get the lights.


telephone sanitizers, anyone?

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2014-05-11 06:06:24 PM  

frontwheeldriver: grumpfuff: InterruptingQuirk: "We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."

- F. Buckminster Fuller

I'll get the lights.

telephone sanitizers, anyone?

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 280x280]


....and I thought the last guy who responded to me was confusing.
 
2014-05-11 06:12:03 PM  
Need some help?

i61.tinypic.com
 
2014-05-11 06:16:02 PM  

grumpfuff: frontwheeldriver: grumpfuff: InterruptingQuirk: "We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."

- F. Buckminster Fuller

I'll get the lights.

telephone sanitizers, anyone?

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 280x280]

....and I thought the last guy who responded to me was confusing.


we are all descendants of Ark B crash survivors, which kind of explains the Kardashians making reality tv shows about themselves...

http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Golgafrincham
 
2014-05-11 06:18:37 PM  

mjjt: Jeng: mjjt: We have a traditional model which has served society so far - basically "If you don't hunt/work, you don't eat."

But there are good grounds for thinking that this model is breaking - perhaps there are never going enough jobs for all, let alone satisfying jobs

The disagreement comes with what we do about it

Do we give everyone a stipend, so that a guy can live on the beach and go surfing every day?

(And pay for it with a tax on the super-rich?)

Do we create make-work jobs, like building highways with barrows and shovel technology?

Do we hand out the soma to keep the proles pacified?

There are cities being built in China and other countries that nobody lives in, complete ghost cities.  They are make work projects so people have jobs.  So we are currently attempting that solution, and it is a very very temporary fix.

(I think they are mainly a result of corrupt profiteering - local pols confiscate farmers land, sell to speculators in return for bribes, speculators onsell to developers who hope that "If you build, they will come" and sometimes come unstuck)

Sometimes you could just redirect budgets.

What would happen if you released all the guys in prison for minor drug offences, and used the money saved to hire them to build/repair roads?


Well, I'm just guessing here, but you'd have more people available to do the same job.
So... more unemployment?
 
2014-05-11 06:38:51 PM  
When I was working in sales, I was required to make follow up calls to customers to make sure they were happy bla bla bla... but I really farking hated making follow up calls. So, I found a loophole in the company's phone system that allowed me to make fake calls to my customers. I didn't have to talk to the customers and listen to their stupid drivel any more. Instead, I made the fake calls. Still had to sit there on the goddamn phone pretending to talk to someone (so the phone system would log the call and I wouldn't get screamed at) but what a total waste of farking time. Funny thing was, I still had the highest scores for "follow up" on the after sales surveys.

/csb
/how to make your customers love you, even though you never follow up? Sincerity. Once you learn to fake that, it's easy.
 
2014-05-11 06:43:01 PM  
Food, we have plenty of. Housing, no problem. If you don't have a job, so what? The one thing that could actually improve people's lives, if there is excess money to be spent, it's healthcare. Cancer, heart disease, aging in general, mental illness. All these things need more smart people and more money going against them. Nothing money can buy is going to have more of an impact on quality of life.

To really improve quality of life I guess what is really needed is more brains, but you can't really buy them.
 
2014-05-11 07:59:02 PM  
So if you are unemployed you are ahead of the game?
 
2014-05-11 08:23:12 PM  
There's an old hippie poem "All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace" who foresaw the same kind of freedom from work that machines would produce. Instead, of course, our ideas about Property have guaranteed us Hell. John Donne wrote "The world did in her cradle take a fall/And turned her brains."

So it goes.

/My son spent most of his day at his last job deleting the thousands of internal email messages that his company produced.
 
2014-05-11 08:39:51 PM  
I'm licensed in what I do, so there's a fair amount of judgement involved. Some things you can automate and some things are very difficult to automate. I've been trying to figure out a way to automate my work since I first started. If I ever do it, I'll happily sit back and collect my paycheck.
 
2014-05-11 08:43:13 PM  

gecizzle: When I was working in sales...


I know a guy who's been in sales for about forever. Whenever he was doing his pitch, he'd say "and I personally stand behind every product I sell", while moving to physically stand behind the product. He's claimed that no one ever called him on it.  I get a kick out of good sales stories.
 
2014-05-11 08:50:43 PM  
Huh, that was enlightening. I'd only heard the name F Buckminster Fuller as a Dennis Miller punchline
 
2014-05-11 08:55:46 PM  
Crazy hippie utopia.

It is ridiculous to think this will ever happen, dumber still to think it should happen.
 
2014-05-11 09:06:54 PM  

Truther: Crazy hippie utopia.

It is ridiculous to think this will ever happen, dumber still to think it should happen.


Far better a capitalist dystopia.

"Why this is Hell nor am I out of it."
 
2014-05-11 09:34:38 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Very droll. Problem is, everybody has to eat, drink, and take a dump somewhere to survive, and our supplies of edible food, safe drinking water, and places designed to safely process our waste products without poisoning the environment are limited.


And don't forget, people always want more. So you work just enough to survive and a guy will work a bit harder to get that little bit you want. And so forth and so on.

Not that it's a bad thing, I don't think anyone benefits from scarcity except those with the scarce item. And when that scarce item is food and water... well, it is pretty ugly.
 
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