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(Politico)   Apparently $474 million is not enough money for the government to build a functional website   (politico.com) divider line 159
    More: Fail, obamacare, FGA, Obamacare exchanges  
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7166 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 May 2014 at 2:59 PM (14 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-11 12:25:42 PM
Coulda tol' ya that.
 
2014-05-11 12:27:21 PM
These days one needs to budget for tolls and trolls.
Nobody rides for free.
 
2014-05-11 12:43:53 PM
In related news, the biggest legitimate complaint about Obamacare is that the website is not significantly better than Geocities.

/I saw a bumper sticker last week that said "liberals protest war and injustice, conservatives protest healthcare"
//though the sticker didn't say so, conservatives also protest against equal rights for minorities
 
2014-05-11 12:55:06 PM
Wait, that article references contractors failing to create viable web sites. It seems that private industry has failed us here, not government.  The obvious solution is to stop giving hand outs to incompetent businesses and use the money to do the work in house by employees who can be held accountable for their work.
 
2014-05-11 01:01:48 PM

TwoHead: Wait, that article references contractors failing to create viable web sites. It seems that private industry has failed us here, not government.  The obvious solution is to stop giving hand outs to incompetent businesses and use the money to do the work in house by employees who can be held accountable for their work.


memecrunch.com
 
2014-05-11 01:11:19 PM
This is the real scandal of ObamaCare, if anything.

I dunno, CoveredCA seems to work okay, maybe they should hire out the same folks who did ours.
 
2014-05-11 01:17:15 PM

TwoHead: Wait, that article references contractors failing to create viable web sites. It seems that private industry has failed us here, not government. The obvious solution is to stop giving hand outs to incompetent businesses and use the money to do the work in house by employees who can be held accountable for their work.


That will never happen because the politicians award the contracts to whomever gives them the most in bribes and kickbacks the contractors would be denied the right to express their freedom of speech by generously donating to the politicians who best represent their interests.
 
2014-05-11 01:35:06 PM
blogs.citypages.com
 
2014-05-11 02:07:07 PM
Problems with Website: Needs more lens flare.
 
2014-05-11 02:39:40 PM
What we also found out is that easier access to health insurance still won't alleviate right wing butt hurt and misplaced priorities
 
2014-05-11 02:48:53 PM
Did they try turning it off and back on again?
 
2014-05-11 03:04:38 PM
On the bright side, Mooch's college buddy will never have to work again.
 
2014-05-11 03:04:39 PM
The government's dumbassed bidding system and the incompetent crooks who win contracts are at fault here
 
2014-05-11 03:06:14 PM

soporific: Did they try turning it off and back on again?


Can't find the button in the dark.
 
2014-05-11 03:06:42 PM

snocone: These days one needs to budget for tolls and trolls.
Nobody rides for free.


Uh, sorry, but a toll is a toll and a troll is a troll.  If we don't get no tolls, then we don't suffer no trolls.
 
2014-05-11 03:07:55 PM

snocone: soporific: Did they try turning it off and back on again?

Can't find the button in the dark.


Did they rest the modem?
 
2014-05-11 03:08:22 PM

moothemagiccow: The government's dumbassed bidding system and the incompetent crooks who win contracts are at fault here


These are STATE exchanges. Which "government" are you referring to?
 
2014-05-11 03:08:31 PM

kendelrio: snocone: soporific: Did they try turning it off and back on again?

Can't find the button in the dark.

Did they rest the modem?


Goddamit. Reset.
 
2014-05-11 03:09:16 PM

soporific: Did they try turning it off and back on again?


Did you ever see the unaired US pilot with Joel McHale?
 
2014-05-11 03:12:38 PM
The problems with the site are endless. Just trying to working for one regular client can be a pain in the ass; these guys were trying to satisfy 500 something congress critters, an entire department of the government, and with the entire populous of the US as potential users.

This was always going to be a shiat show. There's no way to please that many people. Plus, they only gave the development team 6 months; when they knew about the project for 2 years. I guarantee that more than one senator called in to voice his/her opinion on the function of the site.

TL;DR version

1. Massive project
2. Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians
3. Short time line
4. Impossible/ ill-defined goals
5. 1,400 pages of regulation
6. With a big patronage cherry on top
 
2014-05-11 03:13:13 PM

OhioUGrad: soporific: Did they try turning it off and back on again?

Did you ever see the unaired US pilot with Joel McHale?


Oh god he is just not the right fit for that.
 
2014-05-11 03:15:03 PM
Massachusetts, Oregon, Nevada and Maryland

I don't understand why the media is giving the contractors involved on these failed exchanges a free pass.  They were paid tens of millions of dollars and didn't deliver squat.  This article certainly didn't name names.

In Oregon, we essentially paid for Ellison's $200M defence of the America's Cup and got a failed software project in return, but the only thing you hear in the media is about the bureaucratic failure in Salem.  There is little or no mention of the fact that Oracle flat out did not deliver.
 
2014-05-11 03:16:06 PM

iheartscotch: The problems with the site are endless. Just trying to working for one regular client can be a pain in the ass; these guys were trying to satisfy 500 something congress critters, an entire department of the government, and with the entire populous of the US as potential users.

This was always going to be a shiat show. There's no way to please that many people. Plus, they only gave the development team 6 months; when they knew about the project for 2 years. I guarantee that more than one senator called in to voice his/her opinion on the function of the site.

TL;DR version

1. Massive project
2. Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians
3. Short time line
4. Impossible/ ill-defined goals
5. 1,400 pages of regulation
6. With a big patronage cherry on top


Bootstappin' is too damn expensive.
Not everyone who touches health coverage is entitled to be wealthy beyond all reality.
 
2014-05-11 03:16:42 PM

Summoner101: snocone: These days one needs to budget for tolls and trolls.
Nobody rides for free.

Uh, sorry, but a toll is a toll and a troll is a troll.  If we don't get no tolls, then we don't suffer no trolls.


But you have to pay the troll toll, to get into the boy's soul.
 
2014-05-11 03:18:29 PM
Make that $651 million and five states.

Hawaii Obamacare exchange not fiscally sustainable, lawmakers told

Hawaii Health Connector isn't financially sustainable and, because of that, should be a state agency, officials say.

The nonprofit state exchange received $204 million in federal money. Once that runs out, the exchange will be expected to fund its $10 million to $14 million in annual operations through fees on local insurance companies. The fees, now at 2 percent, are generated through a percentage of sales made through the exchange.

But numbers as of Dec. 7 released by the Hawaii Health Connector show just 683 people in Hawaii bought plans through the exchange, or less than 1 percent of Hawaii's 1.4 million people.

Bhagowalia said 3,000 to 4,000 people signing up through the exchange - out of a potential 1.4 million - is "not a good outlook for us," and "the business model will not survive."
 
2014-05-11 03:18:40 PM

IoSaturnalia: Massachusetts, Oregon, Nevada and Maryland

I don't understand why the media is giving the contractors involved on these failed exchanges a free pass.  They were paid tens of millions of dollars and didn't deliver squat.  This article certainly didn't name names.

In Oregon, we essentially paid for Ellison's $200M defence of the America's Cup and got a failed software project in return, but the only thing you hear in the media is about the bureaucratic failure in Salem.  There is little or no mention of the fact that Oracle flat out did not deliver.


And as someone whose company is migrating over to an Oracle system, I am not getting a kick...
 
2014-05-11 03:20:06 PM
"Failed"

Obamacare has been one of the greatest American successes in the past 30 years. Deal with it.
 
2014-05-11 03:20:46 PM

Summoner101: snocone: These days one needs to budget for tolls and trolls.
Nobody rides for free.

Uh, sorry, but a toll is a toll and a troll is a troll.  If we don't get no tolls, then we don't suffer no trolls.


thumbnails.hulu.com
 
2014-05-11 03:21:49 PM

crab66: "Failed"

Obamacare has been one of the greatest American successes in the past 30 years. Deal with it.


B-b-b-but websites!
 
2014-05-11 03:22:00 PM

IoSaturnalia: Massachusetts, Oregon, Nevada and Maryland

I don't understand why the media is giving the contractors involved on these failed exchanges a free pass.  They were paid tens of millions of dollars and didn't deliver squat.  This article certainly didn't name names.

In Oregon, we essentially paid for Ellison's $200M defence of the America's Cup and got a failed software project in return, but the only thing you hear in the media is about the bureaucratic failure in Salem.  There is little or no mention of the fact that Oracle flat out did not deliver.


Private contractors always get a pass from the right regardless of how terrible they perform.

They're the ones that insist that privatizing something makes it more efficient when time and time again, the evidence proves that to be a load of BS.
 
2014-05-11 03:22:46 PM

King Something: In related news, the biggest legitimate complaint about Obamacare is that the website is not significantly better than Geocities.

/I saw a bumper sticker last week that said "liberals protest war and injustice, conservatives protest healthcare"
//though the sticker didn't say so, conservatives also protest against equal rights for minorities


You could always use more than one bumper sticker.
legalinsurrection.com
 
2014-05-11 03:26:38 PM

snocone: iheartscotch: The problems with the site are endless. Just trying to working for one regular client can be a pain in the ass; these guys were trying to satisfy 500 something congress critters, an entire department of the government, and with the entire populous of the US as potential users.

This was always going to be a shiat show. There's no way to please that many people. Plus, they only gave the development team 6 months; when they knew about the project for 2 years. I guarantee that more than one senator called in to voice his/her opinion on the function of the site.

TL;DR version

1. Massive project
2. Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians
3. Short time line
4. Impossible/ ill-defined goals
5. 1,400 pages of regulation
6. With a big patronage cherry on top

Bootstappin' is too damn expensive.
Not everyone who touches health coverage is entitled to be wealthy beyond all reality.


If you say so. Bootstrapping is a completely legitimate coding alternative.

In fact, in this situation, I'm not sure what else you could have done. I mean, bootstrapping is self-sustained without external input; which is exactly what this project needed. I suppose you could have gone pure PHP; but, then you'd have problems with extendability.
 
2014-05-11 03:27:30 PM

TwoHead: Wait, that article references contractors failing to create viable web sites. It seems that private industry has failed us here, not government.  The obvious solution is to stop giving hand outs to incompetent businesses and use the money to do the work in house by employees who can be held accountable for their work.


Have any of the in house employees who were responsible for picking and overseeing these contractors lost their jobs? If not, what makes you think that moving the work itself in-house would make anyone more accountable? And by the way, have you ever seen what private industry pays a good designer/programmer/manager compared to what government pays? It's the reason I left government service and ended up tripling my pay. Why feds hire contractors is that they can't pay in-housers enough to get enough good ones.
 
2014-05-11 03:28:47 PM

skinnycatullus: TwoHead: Wait, that article references contractors failing to create viable web sites. It seems that private industry has failed us here, not government.  The obvious solution is to stop giving hand outs to incompetent businesses and use the money to do the work in house by employees who can be held accountable for their work.

[memecrunch.com image 800x453]


1. Avoid the failure of crony contract awards or government incompetence by making the people who award the work accountable for their choices. Not only can they lose their jobs but their coveted pensions.
2. Contractors who fail to perform do not get paid, and if they choose to litigate, they pay all costs if they fail in that effort.
3. In-house work failures carry the same penalty as #1.
4. Maintain strong whistle blower laws to protect the people who call out the abusers.
5. If you fail to perform, on either side, you no longer work for, or contract from, the government.
 
2014-05-11 03:29:49 PM

hasty ambush: But numbers as of Dec. 7


Hmm, I wonder if anything has changed in the last 6 months....
 
2014-05-11 03:29:56 PM

LavenderWolf: OhioUGrad: soporific: Did they try turning it off and back on again?

Did you ever see the unaired US pilot with Joel McHale?

Oh god he is just not the right fit for that.


It was God awful. The only redeeming part is that Moss is still in it, but the pilot is an exact rehash of the UK pilot except they replaced the nerdy Irishman with McHale. If you're into torture it's online a few places.
 
2014-05-11 03:29:57 PM
Failed: Obamacare has been one of the greatest American successes in the past 30 years. Deal with it."

Thank you, sir. I needed a good laugh today.
 
2014-05-11 03:30:17 PM
Government money paid to private contractors isn't "privatization". It's not private until the majority of income is derived from truly private sources. Contractors who get most of their revenue from government contracts are just unofficial hybrid government employees.

No one should be shocked that government farming out development of the website was a huge disaster. Government is good at some things and bad at others.
 
2014-05-11 03:30:40 PM

Mrtraveler01: Summoner101: snocone: These days one needs to budget for tolls and trolls.
Nobody rides for free.

Uh, sorry, but a toll is a toll and a troll is a troll.  If we don't get no tolls, then we don't suffer no trolls.

But you have to pay the troll toll, to get into the boy's soul.


I thought it was boy's hole.
 
2014-05-11 03:30:52 PM

jjorsett: TwoHead: Wait, that article references contractors failing to create viable web sites. It seems that private industry has failed us here, not government.  The obvious solution is to stop giving hand outs to incompetent businesses and use the money to do the work in house by employees who can be held accountable for their work.

Have any of the in house employees who were responsible for picking and overseeing these contractors lost their jobs? If not, what makes you think that moving the work itself in-house would make anyone more accountable? And by the way, have you ever seen what private industry pays a good designer/programmer/manager compared to what government pays? It's the reason I left government service and ended up tripling my pay. Why feds hire contractors is that they can't pay in-housers enough to get enough good ones.


Two words:

Lowest bidder.
 
2014-05-11 03:31:45 PM

Whatchoo Talkinbout: skinnycatullus: TwoHead: Wait, that article references contractors failing to create viable web sites. It seems that private industry has failed us here, not government.  The obvious solution is to stop giving hand outs to incompetent businesses and use the money to do the work in house by employees who can be held accountable for their work.

[memecrunch.com image 800x453]

1. Avoid the failure of crony contract awards or government incompetence by making the people who award the work accountable for their choices. Not only can they lose their jobs but their coveted pensions.
2. Contractors who fail to perform do not get paid, and if they choose to litigate, they pay all costs if they fail in that effort.
3. In-house work failures carry the same penalty as #1.
4. Maintain strong whistle blower laws to protect the people who call out the abusers.
5. If you fail to perform, on either side, you no longer work for, or contract from, the government.


Government AND Corporate accountability????

BWAAAAHHAHHAHAAHHAH!

Oh wait, you're serious?

Let me laugh harder!
 
2014-05-11 03:31:45 PM

TwoHead: Wait, that article references contractors failing to create viable web sites. It seems that private industry has failed us here, not government.  The obvious solution is to stop giving hand outs to incompetent businesses and use the money to do the work in house by employees who can be held accountable for their work.


Well, bless your heart, you think gov't employees are held accountable for their actions.
 
2014-05-11 03:32:16 PM

TwoHead: Wait, that article references contractors failing to create viable web sites. It seems that private industry has failed us here, not government.  The obvious solution is to stop giving hand outs to incompetent businesses and use the money to do the work in house by employees who can be held accountable for their work.


Industry hasn't failed at all. They make money, which is the objective of any business. They just do it by following the rules set up by the government customer-- who (at least in DoD spending) absolutely blows at communicating what they want. (I work as an engineer in the aerospace sector.)

Not to say that I approve of government contractors. I wish more had a sense of integrity about how they operated. But the government is a lousy customer who rewards poor engineering in favor of checking-off boxes and rigid conformity. (And the contractors primary goal is to meet requirements, no more, no less, without jeopardizing future contracts.)

On some programs, the motto might as well be "We give them exactly what they want. And what they want sucks-ass."

That's the business model when working with the government. It would be better to have a competitive process that favored innovation-- Samsung vs Apple for instance. But then the government wouldn't have the control that they want-- ie specifying the product (poorly) rather than buying the off-the-shelf product.

You'd think that "bringing the work in-house" would be a solution. But aside from the communist outrage that would bring, the work would never get done. There's just so much process, paperwork and bureaucracy that the costs explode for programs beyond a size/headcount threshold. (Time is money.) Plus anything done by the government is just as susceptible to failure and politics. Politicians prefer to punish/blame contractors rather than government workers.

That said there are R&D efforts that the government does engage in: NASA, AFRL, NAWC, the national labs (which are not really govt), etc. And much of that is still outsourced to specialized companies that are more efficient in producing the "product."

It really is a giant stupid, money-wasting game. And it is the government who sets the rules.
 
2014-05-11 03:32:39 PM

TwoHead: Wait, that article references contractors failing to create viable web sites. It seems that private industry has failed us here, not government.  The obvious solution is to stop giving hand outs to incompetent businesses and use the money to do the work in house by employees who can be held accountable for their work.


Most of that money was kickbacks to big campaign donors. That the websites even remotely worked is a miracle.
 
2014-05-11 03:32:56 PM

jjorsett: TwoHead: Wait, that article references contractors failing to create viable web sites. It seems that private industry has failed us here, not government.  The obvious solution is to stop giving hand outs to incompetent businesses and use the money to do the work in house by employees who can be held accountable for their work.

Have any of the in house employees who were responsible for picking and overseeing these contractors lost their jobs? If not, what makes you think that moving the work itself in-house would make anyone more accountable? And by the way, have you ever seen what private industry pays a good designer/programmer/manager compared to what government pays? It's the reason I left government service and ended up tripling my pay. Why feds hire contractors is that they can't pay in-housers enough to get enough good ones.


Hey, people are waiting for you in the other thread to give examples of Obama ignoring the law.
 
2014-05-11 03:33:17 PM
My lovely state of Maryland actually tells people to avoid using the MD site and use  healthsherpa.com  to buy. Created by like three guys in a couple months.

And the damn thing works. With a pleasant, easy interface.  Why can't any of the state sites be as easy?
 
2014-05-11 03:33:31 PM
Load of E-commerce sites don't seem to have any problems, Amazon & E-bay do it every day without a hiccup. I don't get it. 2 kids in their parents basement with a couple cases of Jolt Cola and a few bags of Cheetos could have it done in a week.
 
2014-05-11 03:34:20 PM
Pfft.  That's barely enough for the Congressmen, Senators, State Reps, Administrative Directors, and regulatory agencies to wet their beaks.

This is what happens under austerity.
 
2014-05-11 03:39:46 PM

grumpfuff: Summoner101: snocone: These days one needs to budget for tolls and trolls.
Nobody rides for free.

Uh, sorry, but a toll is a toll and a troll is a troll.  If we don't get no tolls, then we don't suffer no trolls.


Help! Help! Save me! I can't swim! I'm drowning!
 
2014-05-11 03:39:54 PM

iheartscotch: 1. Massive project
2. Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians
3. Short time line
4. Impossible/ ill-defined goals
5. 1,400 pages of regulation
6. With a big patronage cherry on top


So, nothing to do with it being government, just the same story as many large technology projects.
 
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