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(The Eagle Tribune)   Will Massachusetts residents vote to give themselves an extra two weeks of paid vacation per year?   (eagletribune.com) divider line 219
    More: Obvious, Massachusetts, Policy Research, paid sick days, labour movement  
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3115 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 May 2014 at 1:52 PM (10 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-11 10:36:47 AM
If they're smart.

I get 15 sick days a year (Canada).  Of course, I don't take most of them.  Most of my colleagues take less than a third of that.

Of course, a smart person might realize that productivity increases when you don't have your sick employees making your other employees sick.
 
2014-05-11 10:39:30 AM

mrshowrules: If they're smart.

I get 15 sick days a year (Canada).  Of course, I don't take most of them.  Most of my colleagues take less than a third of that.

Of course, a smart person might realize that productivity increases when you don't have your sick employees making your other employees sick.


But what about the Job Creators?
 
2014-05-11 10:58:52 AM

mrshowrules: If they're smart.

I get 15 sick days a year (Canada).  Of course, I don't take most of them.  Most of my colleagues take less than a third of that.

Of course, a smart person might realize that productivity increases when you don't have your sick employees making your other employees sick.


I prefer it when waiters that serve me don't have the flu.  Or the kitchen staff.
 
2014-05-11 11:12:10 AM

SphericalTime: mrshowrules: If they're smart.

I get 15 sick days a year (Canada).  Of course, I don't take most of them.  Most of my colleagues take less than a third of that.

Of course, a smart person might realize that productivity increases when you don't have your sick employees making your other employees sick.

I prefer it when waiters that serve me don't have the flu.  Or the kitchen staff.


Doubly true for hospital staff.
 
2014-05-11 11:14:17 AM
A really sick worker is doing a shiatty job that day and infecting other workers. It probably costs more than a day's worth of productivity by the time the germ finishes going through the all workers.
 
2014-05-11 11:34:01 AM
fta unused time couldn't be rolled over into the next year.

Use it or lose it? Guess what.

mrshowrules: Of course, a smart person might realize that productivity increases when you don't have your sick employees making your other employees sick.


No, no. The point is that sick employees are worthless and weak, while healthy employees are rugged individualists. Employers shouldn't be punished because some of their employees have immune systems which aren't sufficiently bootstrappy.
 
2014-05-11 12:04:33 PM
I'd be ok with mandatory unpaid sick leave. People who still come in sick should have 100% of that days pay confiscated and redistributed to the coworkers they exposed.
 
2014-05-11 12:08:06 PM
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Just like polio.
 
2014-05-11 12:09:48 PM

Notabunny: fta unused time couldn't be rolled over into the next year.

Use it or lose it? Guess what.


There's nothing preventing a company from requiring a doctor's note or other proof of illness for someone they think is abusing the system, and it doesn't really make sense to have sick leave days carry over.

However, I'd fully support legislation mandating businesses provide at least two weeks of paid vacation time per year with at least half of it being bankable.
 
2014-05-11 12:28:04 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Notabunny: fta unused time couldn't be rolled over into the next year.

Use it or lose it? Guess what.

There's nothing preventing a company from requiring a doctor's note or other proof of illness for someone they think is abusing the system, and it doesn't really make sense to have sick leave days carry over.

However, I'd fully support legislation mandating businesses provide at least two weeks of paid vacation time per year with at least half of it being bankable.


Sure, but not everyone will abuse sick leave in a way that attracts attention. People view sick leave as part of their compensation package, and choosing between receiving or losing compensation is easy. One simple way to motivate people not to over-use sick leave is to offer some form of cash-out when the employee leaves the company. For example, my employer allows me to cash-out 2,000 hours of sick leave. There used to be no cap, but we negotiated a cap a few years ago when revenues were down and retirements were up. The point is, everybody wants that lovely parting gift, and so everybody is motivated to use sick time sparingly, and so my employer has happy, healthy, motivated employees. Ta-da!
 
2014-05-11 12:47:26 PM
I should see where I can sign up. I've aleatlys had sick leave and want to make sure that those around me that serve me food and bag my groceries are healthy.
 
2014-05-11 12:52:12 PM
My sick and vacation days aren't separate at my job and we also only have like five federal holidays off. That said, they're pretty good with the PTO time to make up for that.

/~20ish days, which works out to about a month.
 
2014-05-11 12:58:18 PM
I work for the federal government, which is the epitome of 'spoiled benefits having workers'. We get about 3 weeks a year, plus sick time.

Oddly, most people donate their 'use it or lose it' time to people with family needs (sick child, etc), and senior workers frequently have more than a year of sick time accrued by the time they retire.

It's almost like the idea of people being greedy about benefits is just as BS as the idea of the free cell phone wanting, caviar eating, welfare queen. Who could have possibly imagined that certain individuals with an extreme partisan agenda would go out of their way to use a few outliers in an attempt to define the whole, while utterly ignoring decades of data from other countries that say such things work?
 
2014-05-11 01:05:02 PM

whistleridge: I work for the federal government, which is the epitome of 'spoiled benefits having workers'. We get about 3 weeks a year, plus sick time.

Oddly, most people donate their 'use it or lose it' time to people with family needs (sick child, etc), and senior workers frequently have more than a year of sick time accrued by the time they retire.

It's almost like the idea of people being greedy about benefits is just as BS as the idea of the free cell phone wanting, caviar eating, welfare queen. Who could have possibly imagined that certain individuals with an extreme partisan agenda would go out of their way to use a few outliers in an attempt to define the whole, while utterly ignoring decades of data from other countries that say such things work?


Why do facts hate America?
 
2014-05-11 02:04:51 PM

RedPhoenix122: SphericalTime: mrshowrules: If they're smart.

I get 15 sick days a year (Canada).  Of course, I don't take most of them.  Most of my colleagues take less than a third of that.

Of course, a smart person might realize that productivity increases when you don't have your sick employees making your other employees sick.

I prefer it when waiters that serve me don't have the flu.  Or the kitchen staff.

Doubly true for hospital staff.


And the example specifically given in the article... a chocolate shop. I would rather be told that my order is late because of sick leave than be told that my order is on time because an employee with the flu finished it.

Of course, we're never TOLD the latter... we just have to assume it.
 
2014-05-11 02:07:43 PM

Jgok: RedPhoenix122: SphericalTime: mrshowrules: If they're smart.

I get 15 sick days a year (Canada).  Of course, I don't take most of them.  Most of my colleagues take less than a third of that.

Of course, a smart person might realize that productivity increases when you don't have your sick employees making your other employees sick.

I prefer it when waiters that serve me don't have the flu.  Or the kitchen staff.

Doubly true for hospital staff.

And the example specifically given in the article... a chocolate shop. I would rather be told that my order is late because of sick leave than be told that my order is on time because an employee with the flu finished it.

Of course, we're never TOLD the latter... we just have to assume it.


Even better, the shop could employ enough people to be able to effectively cover the workload if someone is out unexpectedly.
 
2014-05-11 02:08:54 PM
I suspect the Venn Diagram of "Businesses who refuse to provide paid sick time and keep them flat-footed goombahs in Washington outta my business" and "Businesses who encourage workers to apply for welfare benefits to augment their meager salaries" would resemble a spicy meatball.
 
2014-05-11 02:10:25 PM
Those of you worried about abuse realize there are capitalist countries where the is no such thing as "sick days," illness is a "risk" for the employer not the employee, and if you're sick then your sick (of course there are rules for suspected abuse) and that these nations are do fine economically?
 
2014-05-11 02:11:19 PM

Notabunny: TuteTibiImperes: Notabunny: fta unused time couldn't be rolled over into the next year.

Use it or lose it? Guess what.

There's nothing preventing a company from requiring a doctor's note or other proof of illness for someone they think is abusing the system, and it doesn't really make sense to have sick leave days carry over.

However, I'd fully support legislation mandating businesses provide at least two weeks of paid vacation time per year with at least half of it being bankable.

Sure, but not everyone will abuse sick leave in a way that attracts attention. People view sick leave as part of their compensation package, and choosing between receiving or losing compensation is easy. One simple way to motivate people not to over-use sick leave is to offer some form of cash-out when the employee leaves the company. For example, my employer allows me to cash-out 2,000 hours of sick leave. There used to be no cap, but we negotiated a cap a few years ago when revenues were down and retirements were up. The point is, everybody wants that lovely parting gift, and so everybody is motivated to use sick time sparingly, and so my employer has happy, healthy, motivated employees. Ta-da!


Something like that happened to a friend's father. He worked at the same place for 20+ years, and he always carried over the maximum amount of sick/vacation days to the next year. When it came time for retiring, he announced he would be retiring in a year. Then he also announced he would be using all his unused days, which meant that during the course of that year, he would only have to work for about half of it.

The company ended up offering to buy out most of his sick days, so while his plan didn't go thru exactly how he wanted, he still got a nice fat check out of it.
 
2014-05-11 02:11:49 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Jgok: RedPhoenix122: SphericalTime: mrshowrules: If they're smart.

I get 15 sick days a year (Canada).  Of course, I don't take most of them.  Most of my colleagues take less than a third of that.

Of course, a smart person might realize that productivity increases when you don't have your sick employees making your other employees sick.

I prefer it when waiters that serve me don't have the flu.  Or the kitchen staff.

Doubly true for hospital staff.

And the example specifically given in the article... a chocolate shop. I would rather be told that my order is late because of sick leave than be told that my order is on time because an employee with the flu finished it.

Of course, we're never TOLD the latter... we just have to assume it.

Even better, the shop could employ enough people to be able to effectively cover the workload if someone is out unexpectedly.


Are you a job creator??

Areyouawizard.jpg
 
2014-05-11 02:12:41 PM

mrshowrules: If they're smart.

I get 15 sick days a year (Canada).  Of course, I don't take most of them.  Most of my colleagues take less than a third of that.

Of course, a smart person might realize that productivity increases when you don't have your sick employees making your other employees sick.


True. But most employers like that would insist you stay home without pay.
 
2014-05-11 02:19:43 PM
Seriously, why is it every time someone suggests a measure that would make life easier, there's so much farking opposition? Either from people who own yachts or those who want them very badly.

It just doesn't make sense anymore.
 
2014-05-11 02:25:30 PM

whidbey: Seriously, why is it every time someone suggests a measure that would make life easier, there's so much farking opposition? Either from people who own yachts or those who want them very badly.

It just doesn't make sense anymore.


Some people think that Americans are great because we are so overworked (though, they would use industrious). They also think Europeans and Chinese are lazy and entitled.
 
2014-05-11 02:26:31 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Notabunny: fta unused time couldn't be rolled over into the next year.

Use it or lose it? Guess what.

There's nothing preventing a company from requiring a doctor's note or other proof of illness for someone they think is abusing the system, and it doesn't really make sense to have sick leave days carry over.

However, I'd fully support legislation mandating businesses provide at least two weeks of paid vacation time per year with at least half of it being bankable.


You could need that time if you develop cancer.
 
2014-05-11 02:27:46 PM

Caffeine Induced Diarrhea: whidbey: Seriously, why is it every time someone suggests a measure that would make life easier, there's so much farking opposition? Either from people who own yachts or those who want them very badly.

It just doesn't make sense anymore.

Some people think that Americans are great because we are so overworked (though, they would use industrious). They also think Europeans and Chinese are lazy and entitled.


I haven't heard anyone call the Chinese lazy, but Europeans, especially the French, do tend to get that thrown at them a lot.

The really heartbreaking thing is hearing it from average working Joes who would benefit immensely from France's worker's rights laws.
 
2014-05-11 02:29:15 PM
More vacation days means the US is becoming more like France.  Next thing you know, you will have socialized medicine and your kids will want to eat cheese and wear berets.

Voulez-vous coucher ce soir, Massachusetts?
 
2014-05-11 02:31:27 PM
If companies have to pay for sick leave now, they will have to reduce employee pay to make up for it.
 
2014-05-11 02:31:39 PM
"Employers need to have the flexibility to do what is right for them and their workers."

No, what you're doing is what you think is most profitable for you, not what is right, especially not for your employees.


"They don't need government to dictate what those policies should be," he said. "If we continue to do that, our main streets are eventually going to go dark."

No they won't.  The very bedrock principles of Capitalism dictate that if you are not able to profit in any given environment, you will fail and someone more competent and capable will step in and fill the need.  There won't stop being fast food restaurants, shoe stores and grocery stores, for just a few examples.
 
2014-05-11 02:33:41 PM

SlothB77: If companies have to pay for sick leave now, they will have to reduce employee pay to make up for it.


Let's see, "Citation needed" or just "derp?"

Decisions.
 
2014-05-11 02:34:14 PM

SlothB77: If companies have to pay for sick leave now, they will have to reduce employee pay to make up for it.


Yes, no company in the history of ever has had paid sick leave. This will totally ruin every business model ever.
 
2014-05-11 02:37:59 PM

SlothB77: If companies have to pay for sick leave now, they will have to reduce employee pay to make up for it.


Yeah but durr they're going to have to be nationalized.


/Castro nationalized a shoe store, didn't he?
 
2014-05-11 02:38:01 PM

SlothB77: If companies have to pay for sick leave now, they will have to reduce employee pay to make up for it.


Corporations continue to record record profits, the stock market is sky high, and yet every time a move to improve the quality of benefits or pay of the average worker is initiated they all come out and say that it will force them to close their doors.

At a certain point people have to realize that they're lying shiatbags.
 
2014-05-11 02:38:54 PM
aw fark. Wrong quote. But it was so right it deserves duplicity.
 
2014-05-11 02:41:28 PM
Raise the minimum wage to $10.10
Two weeks paid vacation
Two weeks sick pay
Check
Now how much is that burger going to cost ?
 
2014-05-11 02:43:11 PM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: The very bedrock principles of Capitalism dictate that if you are not able to profit in any given environment, you will fail and someone more competent and capable will step in and fill the need.


No. That's never been a bedroxk principle and no expert in capitalism has ever said it.

Also, see Detroit.

Unless you think there's a special quality inherent in folks in that state that makes them immune to the rules of economics.
 
2014-05-11 02:43:25 PM

cig-mkr: Raise the minimum wage to $10.10
Two weeks paid vacation
Two weeks sick pay
Check
Now how much is that burger going to cost ?


Enough that Obama can no longer afford to put brown mustard on it.
 
2014-05-11 02:44:07 PM
DON'T DO IT---STICK IT TO TEH LIBS!

/Yeah, cause the world would just farking end if we slowed down to enjoy life a little bit
 
2014-05-11 02:44:26 PM

cig-mkr: Raise the minimum wage to $10.10
Two weeks paid vacation
Two weeks sick pay
Check
Now how much is that burger going to cost ?


Don't remember off the top of my head, but last study I read said something like $0.75 more, and that was with a $15 minimum wage.
 
2014-05-11 02:46:34 PM

Mantour: More vacation days means the US is becoming more like France.  Next thing you know, you will have socialized medicine and your kids will want to eat cheese and wear berets.

Voulez-vous coucher ce soir, Massachusetts?


When Socialism comes to this country, it will be carrying a tin of confit and be wrapped in a delicate Camembert.
 
2014-05-11 02:47:47 PM

grumpfuff: cig-mkr: Raise the minimum wage to $10.10
Two weeks paid vacation
Two weeks sick pay
Check
Now how much is that burger going to cost ?

Don't remember off the top of my head, but last study I read said something like $0.75 more, and that was with a $15 minimum wage.


So, exactly like The Road Warrior and A Boy and His Dog (without the "sex")?  Got it.
 
2014-05-11 02:50:38 PM

Cozret: Those of you worried about abuse realize there are capitalist countries where the is no such thing as "sick days," illness is a "risk" for the employer not the employee, and if you're sick then your sick (of course there are rules for suspected abuse) and that these nations are do fine economically?


The top .05% here are better off than the top .05% there. So we win. Or something
 
2014-05-11 02:56:12 PM
 Personally, I'm against it. Employers should know better than to keep sick people around their workforce, and people who are forced to go to work sick should really be asking themselves why they're stuck in such a shiatty job in the first place. I really don't think a popular mandate is gonna be tailored to the best interest of the employers *or* the workers.

But having said that, I could be wrong.
 If it works out, then maybe the rest of us should consider trying it.
 If it doesn't, please don't come to the rest of us looking for a bailout.
 
2014-05-11 02:57:43 PM

SlothB77: If companies have to pay for sick leave now, they will have to reduce employee pay executive bonus's to make up for it.

 
2014-05-11 02:59:20 PM

Mrbogey: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: The very bedrock principles of Capitalism dictate that if you are not able to profit in any given environment, you will fail and someone more competent and capable will step in and fill the need.

No. That's never been a bedroxk principle and no expert in capitalism has ever said it.

Also, see Detroit.

Unless you think there's a special quality inherent in folks in that state that makes them immune to the rules of economics.


Actually he's right. Capitalism has always been about survival of the fittest.
 
2014-05-11 03:00:44 PM

GoSlash27: But having said that, I could be wrong.
If it works out, then maybe the rest of us should consider trying it.
If it doesn't, please don't come to the rest of us looking for a bailout.


It's one of those things that every other 1st world nation has managed to get to work, but won't work here because reasons.

It will work, and it will work great.
 
2014-05-11 03:05:53 PM

born_yesterday: grumpfuff: cig-mkr: Raise the minimum wage to $10.10
Two weeks paid vacation
Two weeks sick pay
Check
Now how much is that burger going to cost ?

Don't remember off the top of my head, but last study I read said something like $0.75 more, and that was with a $15 minimum wage.

So, exactly like The Road Warrior and A Boy and His Dog (without the "sex")?  Got it.


Even worse. It'll be exactly like Waterworld.
 
2014-05-11 03:06:24 PM

GoSlash27: Personally, I'm against it. Employers should know better than to keep sick people around their workforce, and people who are forced to go to work sick should really be asking themselves why they're stuck in such a shiatty job in the first place. I really don't think a popular mandate is gonna be tailored to the best interest of the employers *or* the workers.

But having said that, I could be wrong.
 If it works out, then maybe the rest of us should consider trying it.
 If it doesn't, please don't come to the rest of us looking for a bailout.



Basing this off my work experience.  Employers tend to hire the bare minimum number of employees; bonuses and whatnot.  There's noone to cover you if you are sick.  If I called out sick, I was generally threatened with my job, and always needed a doctor's note.  Fat chance there, considering no insurance and it would cost me a day's pay to even go to urgent care.  Employers don't care that you're sick, unless someone complains.  Then they'll feign ignorance and reprimand you.

Like every other labor law proposal, these come about because many employers are dicks because they know they have all the power.  Stop being dicks, and we'll stop our biatching.
 
2014-05-11 03:10:28 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Notabunny: fta unused time couldn't be rolled over into the next year.

Use it or lose it? Guess what.

There's nothing preventing a company from requiring a doctor's note or other proof of illness for someone they think is abusing the system, and it doesn't really make sense to have sick leave days carry over.

However, I'd fully support legislation mandating businesses provide at least two weeks of paid vacation time per year with at least half of it being bankable.


Though honestly who cares? If people want a couple 'mental health' days it probably still leaves the company ahead on total productivity.
 
2014-05-11 03:11:39 PM

grumpfuff: born_yesterday: grumpfuff: cig-mkr: Raise the minimum wage to $10.10
Two weeks paid vacation
Two weeks sick pay
Check
Now how much is that burger going to cost ?

Don't remember off the top of my head, but last study I read said something like $0.75 more, and that was with a $15 minimum wage.

So, exactly like The Road Warrior and A Boy and His Dog (without the "sex")?  Got it.

Even worse. It'll be exactly like Waterworld.


Except cigarettes will be even more expensive.
 
2014-05-11 03:19:04 PM
I get four weeks vacation (they let us carry over up to one week of unused time the past two years, so really five this year, and have used just one so far). We get two weeks paid sick (we also have long-term disability).

I've used a total of maybe two weeks of sick time in my 20-plus years here -- mainly once for a concussion and the other for a seizure.

We used to have a pool in which we could donate sick and unused vacation to others for sick- and family-related matters. That's long gone -- basically because no one used it. We once had a huge company pool of sick days in the bank, but no one needed them because no one here abuses their sick time (that's why we have long-term disability, in case you really need it).

Maybe it's a rarity, but loyalty's a pretty big deal in our company. The company treats us well in return.
 
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