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(CNN)   The Navy comes up with a novel way to defray the national debt. When do we get the penny?   (cnn.com) divider line 67
    More: Silly, U.S. Navy, Operation Desert Storm, Saratoga, North Vietnam  
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8197 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 May 2014 at 4:53 PM (11 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-10 09:49:07 AM
Maybe they could stop buying that $55 a gallon bio-jetfuel to save some money?
 
2014-05-10 10:15:54 AM
Awww... There goes the Newport Naval Fleet. Now who is going to protect us from the Iraqi Navy?
 
2014-05-10 11:13:39 AM
I was going to throw a bid in for a buck, but then I remember I don't have a trailer hitch on my Altima.
 
2014-05-10 11:18:00 AM
You don't get the penny,  subby.  A Contractor does.

The Navy announced Thursday it's paying ESCO Marine of Brownsville, Texas, one cent to take the former USS Saratoga off its hands for dismantling and recycling.

So, not only do you lose a farking  aircraft carrier, you sell it to one of your famous contractors for far below market value.  Because that seems to be how you roll.

/Outrage.  This is one.
 
2014-05-10 11:34:33 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: So, not only do you lose a farking aircraft carrier, you sell it to one of your famous contractors for far below market value. Because that seems to be how you roll.

/Outrage. This is one.


It's been sitting here for like 20 years collecting rust and barnacles. I don't think we'll miss her very much. Besides, they have spent tons of money keeping a security perimeter around the thing since 9/11.

We're not losing a nickle giving the thing away.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-05-10 11:36:09 AM
It's not even nuclear. I want a nuclear carrier to save on oil costs.
 
2014-05-10 11:46:59 AM

NewportBarGuy: Benevolent Misanthrope: So, not only do you lose a farking aircraft carrier, you sell it to one of your famous contractors for far below market value. Because that seems to be how you roll.

/Outrage. This is one.

It's been sitting here for like 20 years collecting rust and barnacles. I don't think we'll miss her very much. Besides, they have spent tons of money keeping a security perimeter around the thing since 9/11.

We're not losing a nickle giving the thing away.


[thatsthejoke.jpg]
 
2014-05-10 12:25:35 PM
Sad for those of us that served on it.  Fair winds, Sara...  *salute*
 
2014-05-10 12:32:34 PM
Sara (and friends) Toga

gemsres.com
 
2014-05-10 02:53:49 PM
Know how I know subby doesn't understand that salvaging a 50 year old ship full of toxic waste and heavy metals isn't cheap?
 
2014-05-10 04:16:30 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: Know how I know subby doesn't understand that salvaging a 50 year old ship full of toxic waste and heavy metals isn't cheap?


How? I don't see anything that indicates that subby doesn't understand that.
 
2014-05-10 04:42:47 PM

jaylectricity: How? I don't see anything that indicates that subby doesn't understand that.


Salvaging ships isn't exactly a super profitable business so almost all of it is done in unregulated shiatholes like mainland China or Pakistan where they can just dump the asbestos, halogenated plastics,cadmium, lead, hexavalent chromium and other toxic materials used for fire safety and corrosion resistance where ever the hell they want.  If you have to salvage in the US you need to follow guidelines on how to dispose of the waste.  The contractor will still make a profit (while providing dozens of good paying jobs for months or years at a time oh horror) but if they had to pay anywhere close to market value of the scrap metal for ship they wouldn't.  Its like when i bring lead acid batteries or used oil filters to the recycling center I have to pay the recycler* to dispose of them because of the high cost of disposing the toxic chemicals in them safely, even though the recycler may also make some money selling some of the recycled materials.


*even if your town takes this stuff for free someone still has to pay someone to dispose of it
 
2014-05-10 04:50:00 PM
headline doesn't make sense.

why not just change the headline to the first sentence of the article so people may actually discuss the content of the article instead of subby's lack of reading comprehension?
 
2014-05-10 05:01:16 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: Know how I know subby doesn't understand that salvaging a 50 year old ship full of toxic waste and heavy metals isn't cheap?


What a service ESCO is doing for the US! It's certainly not because, as from TFA, "The recyclers make money from selling the metal they salvage from the warships.".
 
2014-05-10 05:02:21 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-05-10 05:02:54 PM
So why the, obviously symbolic, cost of a penny? Why doesn't the contractor pay a penny to purchase the scrap? Just curious.
 
2014-05-10 05:07:16 PM

rnatalie: Sara (and friends) Toga

[gemsres.com image 460x276]


She doesn't look that sorry to me.
 
2014-05-10 05:07:49 PM
Caption from photo #16: The USS Langley, the Navy's first aircraft carrier and sole member of its class, steams off the coast of Baltimore in 1924.

I'm no expert, but I don't think that thing is steaming anywhere.
 
2014-05-10 05:12:39 PM

the_cnidarian: So why the, obviously symbolic, cost of a penny? Why doesn't the contractor pay a penny to purchase the scrap? Just curious.


Maybe we don't sell aircraft carriers? This way, we're contracting someone for the express purpose of the dismantling the ship--ESCO doesn't own the ship. Maybe if they buy it, they could legal do other stuff with it.  Just guesses, obviously.
 
2014-05-10 05:22:13 PM
does somebodies brother in law own a scraping company?
 
2014-05-10 05:25:55 PM

the_cnidarian: So why the, obviously symbolic, cost of a penny? Why doesn't the contractor pay a penny to purchase the scrap? Just curious.


Govt accountants use it to reduce inflation. If the Govt says tye replacemnent cost on the Saratoga carrier is 1 billion dollars and they take 1 (special) cent for it then that 1 special cent plus all the pennies in circulation are worth all the pennies in circulation...plus1 billion dollars. Average it out and the buying power of the average penny goes up and therefore inflation goes down.

Now that's totally made up BS, but next week it will be part of O's economic policy.
 
2014-05-10 05:25:55 PM
Anybody read the part where the Saratoga Preservation group raised millions to buy the ship and turn it into a museum but got screwed over by the bureaucracy?

Hmmm. Got an old ship here we need to sell. These guys offer several million and we gotta pay these other guys one cent to haul the thing away. We'll take the guys we gotta pay. (Good, solid, military peacetime logic.)

I suspect the bureaucrats involved were getting kickbacks from the salvage company.
 
2014-05-10 05:31:10 PM

NewportBarGuy: Benevolent Misanthrope: So, not only do you lose a farking aircraft carrier, you sell it to one of your famous contractors for far below market value. Because that seems to be how you roll.

/Outrage. This is one.

It's been sitting here for like 20 years collecting rust and barnacles. I don't think we'll miss her very much. Besides, they have spent tons of money keeping a security perimeter around the thing since 9/11.

We're not losing a nickle giving the thing away.


Not to mention that the thing is chock full of asbestos and other toxic crap. That penny just saved Uncle Sam a crapload of Superfund money.
 
2014-05-10 05:32:27 PM
I bet the Iranians would have paid more than that.
 
2014-05-10 05:33:18 PM

TheOther: Caption from photo #16: The USS Langley, the Navy's first aircraft carrier and sole member of its class, steams off the coast of Baltimore in 1924.

I'm no expert, but I don't think that thing is steaming anywhere.


Not only that but, what is this coast of Baltimore the caption speaks of?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-05-10 05:40:42 PM

itsaidwhat: the_cnidarian: So why the, obviously symbolic, cost of a penny? Why doesn't the contractor pay a penny to purchase the scrap? Just curious.

Govt accountants use it to reduce inflation. If the Govt says tye replacemnent cost on the Saratoga carrier is 1 billion dollars and they take 1 (special) cent for it then that 1 special cent plus all the pennies in circulation are worth all the pennies in circulation...plus1 billion dollars. Average it out and the buying power of the average penny goes up and therefore inflation goes down.

Now that's totally made up BS, but next week it will be part of O's economic policy.


That may be one of the stupidest things I ever heard being blamed on Obama.
 
2014-05-10 05:49:56 PM
How long until they sell it to the Chinese? (Link goes to story of how the Chinese bought a Russian carrier and refitted it)
 
2014-05-10 06:02:15 PM
It's annoyingly hard to buy assets like barges (to turn into houseboats). However, there's a reason for it -- if it's being sold for scrap, it's usually because it in fact is no longer seaworthy.
 
2014-05-10 06:13:59 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: You don't get the penny,  subby.  A Contractor does.

The Navy announced Thursday it's paying ESCO Marine of Brownsville, Texas, one cent to take the former USS Saratoga off its hands for dismantling and recycling.

So, not only do you lose a farking  aircraft carrier, you sell it to one of your famous contractors for far below market value.  Because that seems to be how you roll.

/Outrage.  This is one.


If you think this is an outrage you are a dumbass.

The actual deal is that ESCO decontaminates and scraps the carrier in exchange for the value of the scrap. The cost to dismantle that thing in the first world (which the Navy will insist on because they aren't letting them send even an outdated conventionally powered supercarrier to China) will be enormous.

The reason for the penny is contractual purposes.

The Navy is retaining ownership of the vessel while it is scrapped (a big reason is to ensure that it is dismantled in the US). So, in order to hve a contract ESCO must receive consideration for its scrapping services and that consideration is a token amount of one cent.
 
2014-05-10 06:14:15 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: You don't get the penny,  subby.  A Contractor does.

The Navy announced Thursday it's paying ESCO Marine of Brownsville, Texas, one cent to take the former USS Saratoga off its hands for dismantling and recycling.

So, not only do you lose a farking  aircraft carrier, you sell it to one of your famous contractors for far below market value.  Because that seems to be how you roll.

/Outrage.  This is one.


Were you dropped on your head as a child? This isn't an aircraft carrier, it's a pile of rusting steel that would cost BILLIONS to bring back into service, and is not cheap simply to keep afloat. It's also an obsolete design. The contractor is providing the service of getting rid of it, and the Navy is paying them in scrap metal. Win-win for everyone. BTW, the market rate for obsolete, non-functioning aircraft carriers is "Will you tow it away for free?"
 
2014-05-10 06:16:38 PM

Prey4reign: TheOther: Caption from photo #16: The USS Langley, the Navy's first aircraft carrier and sole member of its class, steams off the coast of Baltimore in 1924.

I'm no expert, but I don't think that thing is steaming anywhere.

Not only that but, what is this coast of Baltimore the caption speaks of?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x962]


That light blue part in the lower right corner? That's the ocean. Chesapeake Bay, specifically, but still salt water. The land facing it is called a "coast."
 
2014-05-10 06:19:48 PM

the_cnidarian: So why the, obviously symbolic, cost of a penny? Why doesn't the contractor pay a penny to purchase the scrap? Just curious.


Because then the contractor is buying the ship, and can do things with it that the Navy might not want them to. If the Navy pays them the penny, then the Navy owns the ship and can insist on exactly how they scrap it (while allowing them to sell off the scrap to make a profit on the deal).
 
2014-05-10 06:20:12 PM

Prey4reign: Not only that but, what is this coast of Baltimore the caption speaks of?


LazyMedia: That light blue part in the lower right corner? That's the ocean. Chesapeake Bay, specifically, but still salt water. The land facing it is called a "coast."


The County is usually just called Baltimore also.
 
2014-05-10 06:22:45 PM

StrikitRich: Maybe they could stop buying that $55 a gallon bio-jetfuel to save some money?


Derp in one. It was $15 a gallon, and it's only that expensive because you've got development costs included. The point is not to save the planet; it's to ensure that the Navy won't run out of fuel if foreign supplies got cut off. Something the Japanese might have looked into prior to 1941.
 
2014-05-10 06:23:13 PM

dywed88: Benevolent Misanthrope: You don't get the penny,  subby.  A Contractor does.

The Navy announced Thursday it's paying ESCO Marine of Brownsville, Texas, one cent to take the former USS Saratoga off its hands for dismantling and recycling.

So, not only do you lose a farking  aircraft carrier, you sell it to one of your famous contractors for far below market value.  Because that seems to be how you roll.

/Outrage.  This is one.

If you think this is an outrage you are a dumbass.

The actual deal is that ESCO decontaminates and scraps the carrier in exchange for the value of the scrap. The cost to dismantle that thing in the first world (which the Navy will insist on because they aren't letting them send even an outdated conventionally powered supercarrier to China) will be enormous.

The reason for the penny is contractual purposes.

The Navy is retaining ownership of the vessel while it is scrapped (a big reason is to ensure that it is dismantled in the US). So, in order to hve a contract ESCO must receive consideration for its scrapping services and that consideration is a token amount of one cent.


Wow.  Did everyone lose their sense of humour today or something?
 
2014-05-10 06:24:07 PM

LazyMedia: Benevolent Misanthrope: You don't get the penny,  subby.  A Contractor does.

The Navy announced Thursday it's paying ESCO Marine of Brownsville, Texas, one cent to take the former USS Saratoga off its hands for dismantling and recycling.

So, not only do you lose a farking  aircraft carrier, you sell it to one of your famous contractors for far below market value.  Because that seems to be how you roll.

/Outrage.  This is one.

Were you dropped on your head as a child? This isn't an aircraft carrier, it's a pile of rusting steel that would cost BILLIONS to bring back into service, and is not cheap simply to keep afloat. It's also an obsolete design. The contractor is providing the service of getting rid of it, and the Navy is paying them in scrap metal. Win-win for everyone. BTW, the market rate for obsolete, non-functioning aircraft carriers is "Will you tow it away for free?"


No, I wasn't.  Were you assraped as a teenager?

Seriously - what is with all the hate over making fun of the idiots who don't know this?
 
2014-05-10 06:25:12 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: dywed88: Benevolent Misanthrope: You don't get the penny,  subby.  A Contractor does.

The Navy announced Thursday it's paying ESCO Marine of Brownsville, Texas, one cent to take the former USS Saratoga off its hands for dismantling and recycling.

So, not only do you lose a farking  aircraft carrier, you sell it to one of your famous contractors for far below market value.  Because that seems to be how you roll.

/Outrage.  This is one.

If you think this is an outrage you are a dumbass.

The actual deal is that ESCO decontaminates and scraps the carrier in exchange for the value of the scrap. The cost to dismantle that thing in the first world (which the Navy will insist on because they aren't letting them send even an outdated conventionally powered supercarrier to China) will be enormous.

The reason for the penny is contractual purposes.

The Navy is retaining ownership of the vessel while it is scrapped (a big reason is to ensure that it is dismantled in the US). So, in order to hve a contract ESCO must receive consideration for its scrapping services and that consideration is a token amount of one cent.

Wow.  Did everyone lose their sense of humour today or something?


Well, doing a dead-perfect imitation of a gubmint-hating derper isn't really funny unless you say something other than EXACTLY WHAT THEY'D SAY.
 
2014-05-10 06:25:33 PM

Rik01: Anybody read the part where the Saratoga Preservation group raised millions to buy the ship and turn it into a museum but got screwed over by the bureaucracy?

Hmmm. Got an old ship here we need to sell. These guys offer several million and we gotta pay these other guys one cent to haul the thing away. We'll take the guys we gotta pay. (Good, solid, military peacetime logic.)

I suspect the bureaucrats involved were getting kickbacks from the salvage company.


They weren't paying millions of dollars for the ship (and I doubt the Navy would be willing to give them ownership even if they did, just like they aren't giving ESCO ownership, to maintain control). They were raising funds that would be used to clean up and maintain the ship if the Navy gave it to them.

As I understand, like the Forrestal, it was determined that they didn't have sufficient funding in place to maintain the ship for the long term (most of the initial funding would have went to cleanup). And the Navy doesn't want to be stuck dealing with the ship in 20 years if that happens.
 
2014-05-10 06:26:37 PM

jamspoon: How long until they sell it to the Chinese? (Link goes to story of how the Chinese bought a Russian carrier and refitted it)


That's why they're contracting with a U.S. company to scrap it, not selling it to them.
 
2014-05-10 06:27:05 PM

LazyMedia: the_cnidarian: So why the, obviously symbolic, cost of a penny? Why doesn't the contractor pay a penny to purchase the scrap? Just curious.

Because then the contractor is buying the ship, and can do things with it that the Navy might not want them to. If the Navy pays them the penny, then the Navy owns the ship and can insist on exactly how they scrap it (while allowing them to sell off the scrap to make a profit on the deal).


Is Lend-Lease still on the books?  Just 'loan' them the ship until they've taken it apart.
 
2014-05-10 06:29:15 PM

dywed88: Rik01: Anybody read the part where the Saratoga Preservation group raised millions to buy the ship and turn it into a museum but got screwed over by the bureaucracy?

Hmmm. Got an old ship here we need to sell. These guys offer several million and we gotta pay these other guys one cent to haul the thing away. We'll take the guys we gotta pay. (Good, solid, military peacetime logic.)

I suspect the bureaucrats involved were getting kickbacks from the salvage company.

They weren't paying millions of dollars for the ship (and I doubt the Navy would be willing to give them ownership even if they did, just like they aren't giving ESCO ownership, to maintain control). They were raising funds that would be used to clean up and maintain the ship if the Navy gave it to them.

As I understand, like the Forrestal, it was determined that they didn't have sufficient funding in place to maintain the ship for the long term (most of the initial funding would have went to cleanup). And the Navy doesn't want to be stuck dealing with the ship in 20 years if that happens.


And really, making the Saratoga into a museum? It's not a particularly historic ship. Spent nearly all its career floating around the Med, waiting for the Russians to do something that they never did. One battle star from Vietnam, a little participation in Desert Storm, and a lot of liberty in Palma and Naples.
 
2014-05-10 06:31:53 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: dywed88: Benevolent Misanthrope: You don't get the penny,  subby.  A Contractor does.

The Navy announced Thursday it's paying ESCO Marine of Brownsville, Texas, one cent to take the former USS Saratoga off its hands for dismantling and recycling.

So, not only do you lose a farking  aircraft carrier, you sell it to one of your famous contractors for far below market value.  Because that seems to be how you roll.

/Outrage.  This is one.

If you think this is an outrage you are a dumbass.

The actual deal is that ESCO decontaminates and scraps the carrier in exchange for the value of the scrap. The cost to dismantle that thing in the first world (which the Navy will insist on because they aren't letting them send even an outdated conventionally powered supercarrier to China) will be enormous.

The reason for the penny is contractual purposes.

The Navy is retaining ownership of the vessel while it is scrapped (a big reason is to ensure that it is dismantled in the US). So, in order to hve a contract ESCO must receive consideration for its scrapping services and that consideration is a token amount of one cent.

Wow.  Did everyone lose their sense of humour today or something?


Because a few months ago there was an identical thread that people were seriously saying the exact same thing.

Remember boys and girls, sarcasm doesn't work to well on the internet because people can't hear your tone of voice and no matter how stupid you think your comment is, someone else has argued it honestly.
 
2014-05-10 06:32:03 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: You don't get the penny,  subby.  A Contractor does.

The Navy announced Thursday it's paying ESCO Marine of Brownsville, Texas, one cent to take the former USS Saratoga off its hands for dismantling and recycling.

So, not only do you lose a farking  aircraft carrier, you sell it to one of your famous contractors for far below market value.  Because that seems to be how you roll.

/Outrage.  This is one.



Truly one of the dumbest comments for this month.     What a dullard.


Glad several people have already pointed out that this barely a break even proposition for the shipbreaker.

Several carriers have been broken up recently, and it costs millions to do it environmentally safe and clean.    It keeps people employed, but barely makes the company money due to red tape and regulations.   What that company gets is some work, but a lot of headaches, with little profit.
 
2014-05-10 06:34:47 PM
Hmmm, lets see:

40,000 DWT minimum draught;

$96/ton going rate for scrap steel;

Cost to hack it up and stow it in rail cars, probably $35/ton;

Cha-----chinnnnnnnng!!!

That about get it?
 
2014-05-10 06:36:48 PM
Heh, I read the wiki on the Saratoga. One of its more notorious episodes was in 1987, when a Tomcat pilot shot down an Air Force F-4 during a NATO exercise. The aviator was grounded, but stayed in the Navy as an intel officer, and just got turned down for Senate confirmation to Rear Admiral because of lingering Air Force butthurt.
 
2014-05-10 06:38:24 PM

olddinosaur: Hmmm, lets see:

40,000 DWT minimum draught;

$96/ton going rate for scrap steel;

Cost to hack it up and stow it in rail cars, probably $35/ton;

Cha-----chinnnnnnnng!!!

That about get it?


Any idea on the toxic waste mitigation costs? That thing is chock full of asbestos and lead-based paint.
 
2014-05-10 06:49:35 PM

Doktor_Zhivago: jaylectricity: How? I don't see anything that indicates that subby doesn't understand that.

Salvaging ships isn't exactly a super profitable business so almost all of it is done in unregulated shiatholes like mainland China or Pakistan where they can just dump the asbestos, halogenated plastics,cadmium, lead, hexavalent chromium and other toxic materials used for fire safety and corrosion resistance where ever the hell they want.  If you have to salvage in the US you need to follow guidelines on how to dispose of the waste.  The contractor will still make a profit (while providing dozens of good paying jobs for months or years at a time oh horror) but if they had to pay anywhere close to market value of the scrap metal for ship they wouldn't.  Its like when i bring lead acid batteries or used oil filters to the recycling center I have to pay the recycler* to dispose of them because of the high cost of disposing the toxic chemicals in them safely, even though the recycler may also make some money selling some of the recycled materials.


*even if your town takes this stuff for free someone still has to pay someone to dispose of it


That's not what I asked you. I was wondering why you thought subby didn't understand this based on a joke about getting that penny. Sure he was wrong about which direction that penny was moving, but I see nothing that indicates that he doesn't understand the costs involved in salvaging scrap waste.
 
2014-05-10 06:51:17 PM

LazyMedia: olddinosaur: Hmmm, lets see:

40,000 DWT minimum draught;

$96/ton going rate for scrap steel;

Cost to hack it up and stow it in rail cars, probably $35/ton;

Cha-----chinnnnnnnng!!!

That about get it?

Any idea on the toxic waste mitigation costs? That thing is chock full of asbestos and lead-based paint.


Not to mention the various greases and oils and other micellaneous toxic sludges.

And that the cost figure was just an ass-pull.

ESCO will likely make a profit. But unless they send the ship to China or somewhere, they aren't likely to make a very big one. This is more, do it to be in a better position for future contracts than because it will make them a fortune.
 
2014-05-10 06:54:29 PM

dywed88: Benevolent Misanthrope: dywed88: Benevolent Misanthrope: You don't get the penny,  subby.  A Contractor does.

The Navy announced Thursday it's paying ESCO Marine of Brownsville, Texas, one cent to take the former USS Saratoga off its hands for dismantling and recycling.

So, not only do you lose a farking  aircraft carrier, you sell it to one of your famous contractors for far below market value.  Because that seems to be how you roll.

/Outrage.  This is one.

If you think this is an outrage you are a dumbass.

The actual deal is that ESCO decontaminates and scraps the carrier in exchange for the value of the scrap. The cost to dismantle that thing in the first world (which the Navy will insist on because they aren't letting them send even an outdated conventionally powered supercarrier to China) will be enormous.

The reason for the penny is contractual purposes.

The Navy is retaining ownership of the vessel while it is scrapped (a big reason is to ensure that it is dismantled in the US). So, in order to hve a contract ESCO must receive consideration for its scrapping services and that consideration is a token amount of one cent.

Wow.  Did everyone lose their sense of humour today or something?

Because a few months ago there was an identical thread that people were seriously saying the exact same thing.

Remember boys and girls, sarcasm doesn't work to well on the internet because people can't hear your tone of voice and no matter how stupid you think your comment is, someone else has argued it honestly.


Don't think that's sarcasm, BM pretty much exclusively derps like that
 
2014-05-10 06:55:10 PM

rnatalie: Sara (and friends) Toga

[gemsres.com image 460x276]

www.jimonlight.com
Please, continue.
 
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