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(The Raw Story)   "The moral panic du jour for my lifetime has been video games, and that panic has been just as stupid and fact-deprived as the rest of them. It started with pinball arcades and, boy, does it offer some perspective on the current panics"   (rawstory.com) divider line 123
    More: Interesting, moral panics, video arcades, video games, video game panics  
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5344 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 May 2014 at 1:30 PM (15 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



123 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-05-10 01:31:44 PM
I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.
 
2014-05-10 01:32:56 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-05-10 01:33:22 PM
I was always thankful that video games took away from my time to murder people...
 
2014-05-10 01:34:36 PM
I played a couple of very nice, fairly vintage Williams machines up in Georgetown the other night. Still not as awesome as:

www.arcade-museum.com
 
2014-05-10 01:35:50 PM
I've smoked tons of weed and have not axe murdered anyone.
 
2014-05-10 01:37:10 PM
Arcades have helped me quit talkin' and start chalkin' and they can help you too.
 
2014-05-10 01:37:29 PM

JasonOfOrillia: I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.


The great 1980s Dungeons & Dragons panic
 
2014-05-10 01:37:34 PM
I've been playing video games and pinball very close to all my life and they haven't found the bodies...
 
2014-05-10 01:37:42 PM

JasonOfOrillia: I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.


The dangers of D&D
 
2014-05-10 01:38:16 PM
On a Saturday night and that's trouble,
Yes you got lots and lots of trouble.
I'm thinkin' of the kids in the knickerbockers, 
Shirt-tail young ones, peekin' in the pool 
Hall window after school, ya got trouble, folks! 
Right here in River City. 
Trouble with a capital "T"
And that rhymes with "P" and that stands for pool!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI_Oe-jtgdI
 
2014-05-10 01:38:51 PM
Just imagine how bad the panic would be if Lieberman was VP. Course we probably wouldn't have had the Iraq War but AT LEAST WE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THE CHILDREN!
 
2014-05-10 01:39:13 PM
I blame the shill who goes by David Grossman.dnrtfa
 
2014-05-10 01:39:37 PM
I was not allowed to go to video arcades as a kid because "drugs were sold there".

My reply was,"so what, they're sold in school, too".

Parents do not like the truth.
 
2014-05-10 01:40:55 PM
Funny that Gary Gygax was christian.
 
2014-05-10 01:42:14 PM
the current panic is "spice" (and other forms of potporri that have been sprayed with some sketchy research chemical).

Not saying the stuff is particularly SAFE, but hearing the shiat they are saying about it on the news is goddamned ridiculous.  More powerful than LSD, one hit gives you a stroke, all the money is funding Islamic terror groups, more addictive than crack, ect.  They are in total "cause a panic" mode on this stuff, and it is mostly straight up lies.

cracks me up, because it sounds EXACTLY like the metal panic of the 80's and the video game panic (that is mostly over, since EVERYONE is playing video games these days).
 
2014-05-10 01:42:22 PM
Merely reading about video games makes me homicidal.
 
2014-05-10 01:42:27 PM

Yakk: JasonOfOrillia: I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.

The dangers of D&D


I'm getting a Mountain Dew, does anybody want one, Hey Graham I'm not in the room right?
 
2014-05-10 01:43:39 PM

Jake Havechek: I was not allowed to go to video arcades as a kid because "drugs were sold there".

My reply was,"so what, they're sold in school, too".

Parents do not like the truth.


The arcade at the mall was OK but the arcade at the bowling alley was off limits, for me.
 
2014-05-10 01:44:55 PM

Tom_Slick: bowling alley


man, those bowling alleys were ALWAYS sketchy.
 
2014-05-10 01:46:42 PM

Tom_Slick: Jake Havechek: I was not allowed to go to video arcades as a kid because "drugs were sold there".

My reply was,"so what, they're sold in school, too".

Parents do not like the truth.

The arcade at the mall was OK but the arcade at the bowling alley was off limits, for me.


I just stayed in my room and played Nintendo, then later sega genesis, followed by PS1

No wonder I'm an introvert.
 
2014-05-10 01:48:05 PM
Oh, Dungeons and Dragons. Somewhere, floating around, I have a completely valid playable dragon character; that also turns into a drow elf when inside. You may bask in my radiance.
 
2014-05-10 01:48:14 PM

frepnog: Tom_Slick: bowling alley

man, those bowling alleys were ALWAYS sketchy.


I my parents defense it was a Candle Pin Bowling Alley Satan's preferred style of bowling.
 
2014-05-10 01:49:04 PM
"Folks, we got trouble; right here in River City!  With a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for pool!"
 
2014-05-10 01:50:07 PM

gingerjet: JasonOfOrillia: I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.

The great 1980s Dungeons & Dragons panic


I can see why churches hate D&D, no business likes competition.
 
2014-05-10 01:50:22 PM
I played quite a lot of Tempest in the Arcade as a wee Dibbley and even today I have a strange urge to destroy bow ties with a bent staple.
 
2014-05-10 01:56:06 PM
The only thing D&D did to me as a kid was delay the loss of my virginity. My parents should have loved it!
 
2014-05-10 01:56:11 PM
I played a lot of Polybius in the arcades back in the day.  I turned out just fine.  Aside from being a sleeper agent for the CIA, anyway.
 
2014-05-10 01:58:26 PM
Is this another one of those shiatty sites Fark loves so much, the ones that like to only write a single paragraph and then re-link to the actual article?

Or is one of my AdBlockers killing the article body?
 
2014-05-10 01:58:27 PM
www.adweek.com
 
2014-05-10 02:00:26 PM
I'll kick anyone's ass at Pengo.
 
2014-05-10 02:01:38 PM

JasonOfOrillia: I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.


I remember when my parents got me Final Fantasy 3 (6) for the NES for Christmas.  I think I was 11 or 12 and distinctly remember my dad telling me "If that game tells you to kill your parents, you can't play it."
 
2014-05-10 02:02:11 PM
Playing Zelda made me stab skeletons
 
2014-05-10 02:12:55 PM

star_topology: JasonOfOrillia: I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.

I remember when my parents got me Final Fantasy 3 (6) for the NES for Christmas.  I think I was 11 or 12 and distinctly remember my dad telling me "If that game tells you to kill your parents, you can't play it."


Jokes on them, you did anyway!
 
2014-05-10 02:15:58 PM
"du jour for my lifetime"?
 
2014-05-10 02:16:50 PM
Eighty years ago it was Reefer Madness.
Sixty years ago it was comic books (cf. Seduction of the Innocent) and pinball
Thirty years ago it was Dungeons and Dragons
Today it's video games.

There's always a moral panic
 
2014-05-10 02:18:44 PM
The only people video games might make into killers were already predisposed to be killers. Some damaged people can't separate their fantasy world from reality.

We should be using video games as a one of several tools to identify people with this issue before they harm someone.

If anything for me, they prevented my from murdering the fark out of some people.
 
2014-05-10 02:19:25 PM

star_topology: remember when my parents got me Final Fantasy 3 (6)


oh just stop it.  as a kid you had no idea that FF3 was actually FF6 in japan.

and I'd bet you never finished it.  Hell, I'd bet you didn't put more than 5 hours into it.
 
2014-05-10 02:21:51 PM
Minor people problems.
 
2014-05-10 02:21:57 PM

GirlScoutSniper: On a Saturday night and that's trouble,
Yes you got lots and lots of trouble.
I'm thinkin' of the kids in the knickerbockers, 
Shirt-tail young ones, peekin' in the pool 
Hall window after school, ya got trouble, folks! 
Right here in River City. 
Trouble with a capital "T"
And that rhymes with "P" and that stands for pool!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI_Oe-jtgdI


Came for this. Leaving satisfied.

See you at Aladdin's Castle.
 
2014-05-10 02:22:05 PM

Boudyro: If anything for me, they prevented me from murdering the fark out of some people.


yep.
 
2014-05-10 02:22:20 PM
FTFH: ...now-accepted pagan holidays...

You mean like Christmas?
 
2014-05-10 02:23:17 PM
frepnog:  ... metal panic of the 80's .........

That used to crack me up so bad. It was the same thing in late 80's and early 90's. "YOU'RE NOT LISTENING TO [insert crappy arena rock/hair metal band here] ARE YOU!?!?!?!?!?  I SAW A SPECIAL ABOUT THEM!!!  THERE'S SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES ON THEIR ALBUMS TELLING YOU TO KILL YOURSELF!!!"

"No, Mom.  I don't listen to them."

Then get in the car and blast Alters of Madness and Legion on the way to my summer job.
 
2014-05-10 02:24:13 PM

frepnog: star_topology: remember when my parents got me Final Fantasy 3 (6)

oh just stop it.  as a kid you had no idea that FF3 was actually FF6 in japan.

and I'd bet you never finished it.  Hell, I'd bet you didn't put more than 5 hours into it.


I think he's saying that so that folks don't get confused, since it is MOSTLY known as FF6 these days. (But when he was a kid, he knew it it as FF 3).

I don't know how you read (I KNEW IT WAS FF6 WHEN I WAS A KID) into his statement: He was telling the story of what he recieved, and added (FF6) as a clarification, since that is what it is now more widey known as.

You son of a submariner.

/You sound like chapters from a self-help booklet!
 
2014-05-10 02:24:38 PM

Tom_Slick: Yakk: JasonOfOrillia: I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.

The dangers of D&D

I'm getting a Mountain Dew, does anybody want one, Hey Graham I'm not in the room right?


I cast , magic missile at the darkness!!
 
2014-05-10 02:28:35 PM
There have been a disturbing lack of dragons for me to kill lately. Hmm...
 
2014-05-10 02:29:00 PM

rjakobi: Just imagine how bad the panic would be if Lieberman was VP. Course we probably wouldn't have had the Iraq War but AT LEAST WE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THE CHILDREN!


When I saw the VP pick, I immediately wondered, are they trying to lose?
 
2014-05-10 02:29:03 PM
If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.
 
2014-05-10 02:29:58 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: That used to crack me up so bad


as a die hard metal head and child of the 80's it didn't crack me up.  It pissed me off, to the point that to this day I can't bring myself to vote for a democrat.
 
2014-05-10 02:31:39 PM

DubtodaIll: all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today


mankind needs leisure.  if all the time spend watching tv or farking was spend on scientific endeavors maybe we could have eradicated religion by now, but people love them some Frasier and farking.
 
2014-05-10 02:31:57 PM

frepnog: Don't Troll Me Bro!: That used to crack me up so bad

as a die hard metal head and child of the 80's it didn't crack me up.  It pissed me off, to the point that to this day I can't bring myself to vote for a democrat.


Well, that's dumb.
 
2014-05-10 02:32:55 PM

Dafatone: frepnog: Don't Troll Me Bro!: That used to crack me up so bad

as a die hard metal head and child of the 80's it didn't crack me up.  It pissed me off, to the point that to this day I can't bring myself to vote for a democrat.

Well, that's dumb.


nope.  it's always the same shiat from them, and fark the government.
 
2014-05-10 02:33:06 PM
Hey step up and play each machine seemed to say,as I walked round and round the penny arcade
Just ring the bell on the big bagatelle and you'll make all those colored lights get gay



See, games make you gay.
 
2014-05-10 02:34:00 PM

DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.


So, what do you do to let loose?  Write and submit papers about set theory to peer-reviewed journals?
 
2014-05-10 02:34:10 PM
This link is to an aggregator (Rawstory) that's to another aggregator that lifted a bunch of stuff from the original story in Reason. Nice.
 
2014-05-10 02:35:22 PM

GirlScoutSniper: On a Saturday night and that's trouble,
Yes you got lots and lots of trouble.
I'm thinkin' of the kids in the knickerbockers, 
Shirt-tail young ones, peekin' in the pool 
Hall window after school, ya got trouble, folks! 
Right here in River City. 
Trouble with a capital "T"
And that rhymes with "P" and that stands for pool!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI_Oe-jtgdI


I used to like to play pool, but then my mother made me take up the clarinet and join the local boy's band.
 
2014-05-10 02:35:30 PM
While I thought all these video game panics were nonsense at the time, the truth is games have gotten increasingly violent and realistic.  During the same period, school shootings and other kid on kid violence have grown more intense.  I'm not saying they've grown more prevalent -- kids have always been terrible to other kids -- but the level of violence we've seen has ratcheted up.

Do I have proof that this isn't a correlation without causation?  No.

Do I have statistics?  No.

Do I think it's possible that at least some of the moral failures that people thought would come about because of these violent games have now come about?  Yes, I do.
 
2014-05-10 02:36:24 PM

Jake Havechek: I was not allowed to go to video arcades as a kid because "drugs were sold there".

My reply was,"so what, they're sold in school, too".

Parents do not like the truth.


Hah, what'd they have to say then?
 
2014-05-10 02:39:19 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.

So, what do you do to let loose?  Write and submit papers about set theory to peer-reviewed journals?


I am not speaking of the people who require leisure to continue their already admirable endeavors. I am thinking of the individuals who by their own talents would be able to contribute to the the advance of humanity but do not because of their preoccupation with entertainment.
 
2014-05-10 02:42:10 PM
The games aren't making kids stabby, just fat.
 
2014-05-10 02:46:43 PM

DubtodaIll: Don't Troll Me Bro!: DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.

So, what do you do to let loose?  Write and submit papers about set theory to peer-reviewed journals?

I am not speaking of the people who require leisure to continue their already admirable endeavors. I am thinking of the individuals who by their own talents would be able to contribute to the the advance of humanity but do not because of their preoccupation with entertainment.


If they made the decision to waste their talent, they'd find some other way if video games weren't around.
 
2014-05-10 02:47:19 PM

frepnog: Dafatone: frepnog: Don't Troll Me Bro!: That used to crack me up so bad

as a die hard metal head and child of the 80's it didn't crack me up.  It pissed me off, to the point that to this day I can't bring myself to vote for a democrat.

Well, that's dumb.

nope.  it's always the same shiat from them, and fark the government.


Vote for who you want.  But don't point to something from 30 years ago as if it's relevant today.

20 years ago, Republicans pushed the healthcare plan that they're currently up in arms about.  By your logic, none of their supporters from 20 years ago should vote for them.

/which is actually pretty solid logic, but...
 
2014-05-10 02:52:09 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: DubtodaIll: Don't Troll Me Bro!: DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.

So, what do you do to let loose?  Write and submit papers about set theory to peer-reviewed journals?

I am not speaking of the people who require leisure to continue their already admirable endeavors. I am thinking of the individuals who by their own talents would be able to contribute to the the advance of humanity but do not because of their preoccupation with entertainment.

If they made the decision to waste their talent, they'd find some other way if video games weren't around.


100% of those affected?
 
2014-05-10 02:54:13 PM

Warthog: Do I think it's possible that at least some of the moral failures that people thought would come about because of these violent games have now come about? Yes, I do.


you are wrong.  school shootings happen because of the "fame", and it has NOTHING to do with video games.

The colombine kids didn't really even PLAY the damn things.  They just tried to use Doom (and then Marilyn Manson) as scapegoats.

Troubled people do troubled things. Overall, violence is DOWN.
 
2014-05-10 02:59:28 PM

Dafatone: frepnog: Dafatone: frepnog: Don't Troll Me Bro!: That used to crack me up so bad

as a die hard metal head and child of the 80's it didn't crack me up.  It pissed me off, to the point that to this day I can't bring myself to vote for a democrat.

Well, that's dumb.

nope.  it's always the same shiat from them, and fark the government.

Vote for who you want.  But don't point to something from 30 years ago as if it's relevant today.

20 years ago, Republicans pushed the healthcare plan that they're currently up in arms about.  By your logic, none of their supporters from 20 years ago should vote for them.

/which is actually pretty solid logic, but...


democrats supported and STILL farking support censorship.  I can not.  So they will not get my vote.  Ever.
 
2014-05-10 03:00:43 PM

DubtodaIll: Don't Troll Me Bro!: DubtodaIll: Don't Troll Me Bro!: DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.

So, what do you do to let loose?  Write and submit papers about set theory to peer-reviewed journals?

I am not speaking of the people who require leisure to continue their already admirable endeavors. I am thinking of the individuals who by their own talents would be able to contribute to the the advance of humanity but do not because of their preoccupation with entertainment.

If they made the decision to waste their talent, they'd find some other way if video games weren't around.

100% of those affected?


You can say the same thing about fishing, sex, shooting pool, bowling, or just about any other leisure activity.  Maybe if _____ didn't exist some of the people that are completely wrapped up in it would have ended up the next Bernoulli or Bach, but most of them would simply find another way to spend their time.
 
2014-05-10 03:02:01 PM

DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.


Pffff AH HA HA HA HA HA!!!
 
2014-05-10 03:04:37 PM

Warthog: While I thought all these video game panics were nonsense at the time, the truth is games have gotten increasingly violent and realistic.  During the same period, school shootings and other kid on kid violence have grown more intense.  I'm not saying they've grown more prevalent -- kids have always been terrible to other kids -- but the level of violence we've seen has ratcheted up.

Do I have proof that this isn't a correlation without causation?  No.

Do I have statistics?  No.

Do I think it's possible that at least some of the moral failures that people thought would come about because of these violent games have now come about?  Yes, I do.


cdn.thedailybeast.com
 
2014-05-10 03:05:37 PM

gnosis301: DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.

Pffff AH HA HA HA HA HA!!!


The voracity of anti-opinion to my positions leads me to believe that I am completely correct. Fishing or shooting pool or bowling simply does not attract the level of intelligence that video games do.
 
2014-05-10 03:06:00 PM

DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.


It's acceptable because it's necessary for our sanity.

A constantly wound spring will break from the strain. You have to let it loose occasionally to get any work out of it.

What I don't get is wasting huge amounts of resources on "professional" sports and athletes. We'd all be better off if we spent those resources to play sports instead of watch them. And no professional athlete is more valuable or should be celebrated more than the multitudes of professions that make society work, like teachers, soldiers, doctors, firemen, etc. Hell, even a garbage collector is more valuable to society than a professional athlete.
 
2014-05-10 03:15:35 PM

DubtodaIll: gnosis301: DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.

Pffff AH HA HA HA HA HA!!!

The voracity of anti-opinion to my positions leads me to believe that I am completely correct. Fishing or shooting pool or bowling simply does not attract the level of intelligence that video games do.


What exactly do you think pushes the development of faster/smarter/smaller computers, or 3D modeling/CGI?
 
2014-05-10 03:18:45 PM

Boudyro: DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.

It's acceptable because it's necessary for our sanity.

A constantly wound spring will break from the strain. You have to let it loose occasionally to get any work out of it.

What I don't get is wasting huge amounts of resources on "professional" sports and athletes. We'd all be better off if we spent those resources to play sports instead of watch them. And no professional athlete is more valuable or should be celebrated more than the multitudes of professions that make society work, like teachers, soldiers, doctors, firemen, etc. Hell, even a garbage collector is more valuable to society than a professional athlete.


Now,now that athlete would make a wonderful garbage collector, even without the steroids.
 
2014-05-10 03:21:16 PM

stonelotus: "du jour for my lifetime"?


He's lived a very short life.

/+1 funny from me, very subtle. :)
 
2014-05-10 03:22:19 PM

Boudyro: DubtodaIll: gnosis301: DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.

Pffff AH HA HA HA HA HA!!!

The voracity of anti-opinion to my positions leads me to believe that I am completely correct. Fishing or shooting pool or bowling simply does not attract the level of intelligence that video games do.

What exactly do you think pushes the development of faster/smarter/smaller computers, or 3D modeling/CGI?


People who aren't playing games all day though filling a demand of the market.
 
2014-05-10 03:22:44 PM
My parents let me go see Alice Cooper with friends at age 13 in 1969, albeit with much discussion and trepidation.

Second concert. First was a week or so before, Sly and the Family Stone. Same thing, different reasons. They weren't racist, it was the times and the recent racial riots.
 
2014-05-10 03:28:40 PM

JasonOfOrillia: I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.


Exactly!
What about all those people I didn't murder?
 
2014-05-10 03:28:58 PM

DubtodaIll: Boudyro: DubtodaIll: gnosis301: DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.

Pffff AH HA HA HA HA HA!!!

The voracity of anti-opinion to my positions leads me to believe that I am completely correct. Fishing or shooting pool or bowling simply does not attract the level of intelligence that video games do.

What exactly do you think pushes the development of faster/smarter/smaller computers, or 3D modeling/CGI?

People who aren't playing games all day though filling a demand of the market.


And who created that demand they are filling?
 
2014-05-10 03:30:28 PM
screw d&d
Star Frontiers for the win!

/yeah...where even D&D players called you a nerd.
 
2014-05-10 03:35:51 PM

dstrick44: JasonOfOrillia: I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.

Exactly!
What about all those people I didn't murder?


Right?! Why don't we ever get any credit for that?
 
2014-05-10 03:38:14 PM
My sister explained it pretty well to me.  Nobody (well nobody smart, anyway) really thinks that violent video games are going to turn a normal person into a violent person.  What they're worried about is whether it would negatively affect a child who, from the moment they could hold a game controller, was given violent video games as their primary form of entertainment.

Would it make it harder for them to tell the difference between "joking around" violence and real violence?
Would it make it so that whenever they get very angry, they get violently angry?
Would it desensitize them to violence, to the point where they see street crime and bloody wars as "normal", and turn them off trying to prevent violence?

Personally, I would say "no" to every one of these questions.  But they are a whole lot more sane than "Would playing GTA make a kid want to go on a hooker-killing, car-stealing, pedestrian-trampling rampage?"
 
2014-05-10 03:38:53 PM

Random Internet Persona: dstrick44: JasonOfOrillia: I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.

Exactly!
What about all those people I didn't murder?

Right?! Why don't we ever get any credit for that?



What about those that needed killing?

Today's generation is just plain lazy. Back in my day, we would take out bad people, their neighbors, and innocent pedestrians. We may have been unhinged and dangerous, but we were go-getters.
 
2014-05-10 03:39:10 PM
I see TFAuthor is just ignoring the dozens of studies (correlational, experimental, and longitudinal) that have found playing violent video games to be associated with increases in aggressive behavior.

(On phone, so no links, but about ten seconds with http://scholar.google.com should get one going. Also try Craig Anderson, one of the top researchers in the field: http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/~caa / )
 
2014-05-10 03:43:09 PM

Son of Thunder: I see TFAuthor is just ignoring the dozens of studies (correlational, experimental, and longitudinal) that have found playing violent video games to be associated with increases in aggressive behavior.

(On phone, so no links, but about ten seconds with http://scholar.google.com should get one going. Also try Craig Anderson, one of the top researchers in the field: http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/~caa / )


I see you are just ignoring the dozens of studies that have found playing violent video games has absolutely no correlation with aggressive behaviour.
 
2014-05-10 03:43:44 PM

Boudyro: DubtodaIll: Boudyro: DubtodaIll: gnosis301: DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.

Pffff AH HA HA HA HA HA!!!

The voracity of anti-opinion to my positions leads me to believe that I am completely correct. Fishing or shooting pool or bowling simply does not attract the level of intelligence that video games do.

What exactly do you think pushes the development of faster/smarter/smaller computers, or 3D modeling/CGI?

People who aren't playing games all day though filling a demand of the market.

And who created that demand they are filling?


People who had a dream and followed it.
 
2014-05-10 03:47:51 PM

star_topology: I remember when my parents got me Final Fantasy 3 (6) for the NES for Christmas. I think I was 11 or 12 and distinctly remember my dad telling me "If that game tells you to kill your parents, you can't play it."


Stop it, Final Fantasy 3 never came out on the NES
 
2014-05-10 03:50:07 PM

Snarfangel: Random Internet Persona: dstrick44: JasonOfOrillia: I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.

Exactly!
What about all those people I didn't murder?

Right?! Why don't we ever get any credit for that?


What about those that needed killing?

Today's generation is just plain lazy. Back in my day, we would take out bad people, their neighbors, and innocent pedestrians. We may have been unhinged and dangerous, but we were go-getters.


I blame Assassin's Creed. Used to we'd take out those that needed killing. Now we can do it virtually from the comfort of our living rooms, and all of the bad guys and innocent bystanders roam free.

Damn you video games!
 
2014-05-10 03:52:37 PM

moeburn: Son of Thunder: I see TFAuthor is just ignoring the dozens of studies (correlational, experimental, and longitudinal) that have found playing violent video games to be associated with increases in aggressive behavior.

(On phone, so no links, but about ten seconds with http://scholar.google.com should get one going. Also try Craig Anderson, one of the top researchers in the field: http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/~caa / )

I see you are just ignoring the dozens of studies that have found playing violent video games has absolutely no correlation with aggressive behaviour.


Actually, if you look at the graphs (and not all of the underlying factors, like how many teenaged guys are running around -- and as a former teenaged guy, I can say that), it appears there is a negative correlation:
filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com
So much for Grand Theft Auto, and apparently, Internet porn is good for you.
 
2014-05-10 03:57:31 PM

moeburn: Son of Thunder: I see TFAuthor is just ignoring the dozens of studies (correlational, experimental, and longitudinal) that have found playing violent video games to be associated with increases in aggressive behavior.

(On phone, so no links, but about ten seconds with http://scholar.google.com should get one going. Also try Craig Anderson, one of the top researchers in the field: http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/~caa / )

I see you are just ignoring the dozens of studies that have found playing violent video games has absolutely no correlation with aggressive behaviour.


Such as?
 
2014-05-10 03:58:41 PM

DubtodaIll: gnosis301: DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.

Pffff AH HA HA HA HA HA!!!

The voracity of anti-opinion to my positions leads me to believe that I am completely correct. Fishing or shooting pool or bowling simply does not attract the level of intelligence that video games do.


Look up how Craig Venter came up with his ideas that changed DNA sequencing and allowed the Human Genome Project to be finished about 20 years ahead of time.
 
2014-05-10 04:12:04 PM

Irregardless: The games aren't making kids stabby, just fat.


Not much mortal panic.
 
2014-05-10 04:15:20 PM
i1.ytimg.com
What pinball arcades may look like
 
2014-05-10 04:34:29 PM

Fano: DubtodaIll: gnosis301: DubtodaIll: If all the hours spent by competent people playing video games in the past 20 years had spent spent in endeavors beneficial to humanity we would have 90% less problems we have today, would have people on Mars, people on the Moon, and advancements beyond our comprehension. The amount of progress we lose in the name of fun is incalculable and apparently completely acceptable.

Pffff AH HA HA HA HA HA!!!

The voracity of anti-opinion to my positions leads me to believe that I am completely correct. Fishing or shooting pool or bowling simply does not attract the level of intelligence that video games do.

Look up how Craig Venter came up with his ideas that changed DNA sequencing and allowed the Human Genome Project to be finished about 20 years ahead of time.


Psychadelic drugs have no doubt had an influence on the progression of society.
 
2014-05-10 04:37:35 PM

Warthog: but the level of violence we've seen has ratcheted up.

Do I have proof that this isn't a correlation without causation? No.

Do I have statistics? No.

Do I think it's possible that at least some of the moral failures that people thought would co


And there you have it, folks: has no evidence to support his position, but he thinks it's possible, so it must true.

Just go ahead and ignore these:

farm6.staticflickr.com

img.fark.net

img.fark.net
 
2014-05-10 04:38:41 PM
It's too late. You've awakened the gazebo. It catches you and eats you.
 
2014-05-10 05:04:57 PM
Kids are still playing video games. There's still murders. You can't refute that.
Can't explain it either.
 
2014-05-10 05:22:38 PM

frepnog: star_topology: remember when my parents got me Final Fantasy 3 (6)

oh just stop it.  as a kid you had no idea that FF3 was actually FF6 in japan.

and I'd bet you never finished it.  Hell, I'd bet you didn't put more than 5 hours into it.


I didn't say I knew it was FF6 at the time.

And actually, it's my favorite RPG of all time. Played it through and beaten it twice.

Who pissed in your Cheerios?
 
2014-05-10 05:24:37 PM

anuran: Eighty years ago it was Reefer Madness.
Sixty years ago it was comic books (cf. Seduction of the Innocent) and pinball
Thirty years ago it was Dungeons and Dragons
Today it's video games.

There's always a moral panic


Also:
Waltzing
Pool Halls
TV
and of course, Playboy etc
 
2014-05-10 05:24:41 PM

Nowhereman: star_topology: I remember when my parents got me Final Fantasy 3 (6) for the NES for Christmas. I think I was 11 or 12 and distinctly remember my dad telling me "If that game tells you to kill your parents, you can't play it."

Stop it, Final Fantasy 3 never came out on the NES


Typo. My bad.
 
2014-05-10 05:31:02 PM

Snarfangel: stonelotus: "du jour for my lifetime"?

He's lived a very short life.

/+1 funny from me, very subtle. :)


i58.tinypic.com
 
2014-05-10 05:33:24 PM
My parents loved when my brother and I got into D&D. Even when the weather was crappy for weeks at a time we'd be happily out of their hair. One summer it POURED on most of our beach vacation, which would have sucked hard had we not found a group of kids to game with. We didn't whine about the rain at all.
 
2014-05-10 05:36:21 PM

Warthog: While I thought all these video game panics were nonsense at the time, the truth is games have gotten increasingly violent and realistic.  During the same period, school shootings and other kid on kid violence have grown more intense.  I'm not saying they've grown more prevalent -- kids have always been terrible to other kids -- but the level of violence we've seen has ratcheted up.

Do I have proof that this isn't a correlation without causation?  No.

Do I have statistics?  No.

Do I think it's possible that at least some of the moral failures that people thought would come about because of these violent games have now come about?  Yes, I do.


There is a  basic flaw in the correlation = causation proposition.

If .001% of gamers commit a violent crime, why don't the vast majority (if vid games are so bad)?

Or reverse the correlation - 99.9% of gamers don't commit school shootings therefore the games are pacifying the gamers
 
2014-05-10 05:53:05 PM
mjjt: .
img.fark.net


i.ytimg.com
 
2014-05-10 06:10:13 PM
It's such a legitimate concern.

I mean, if you are asked what single man-made possession you could remove from society in order to stop mass shootings the obvious and immediate answer is 'video games.'

/am in favor of the second amendment.
//but fark thinly veiled red herrings
 
2014-05-10 06:12:49 PM
The only reasonable sentence in TFA was the last one

/Something I am looking forward to
 
2014-05-10 06:29:50 PM

Son of Thunder: I see TFAuthor is just ignoring the dozens of studies (correlational, experimental, and longitudinal) that have found playing violent video games to be associated with increases in aggressive behavior.

(On phone, so no links, but about ten seconds with http://scholar.google.com should get one going. Also try Craig Anderson, one of the top researchers in the field: http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/~caa / )


I realize going into this that your Ph.D. in psychology trumps my ABD in it.

That said, so many of those studies, especially the experimental ones, use the shiattiest of methodology.  "Aggressive behavior" being operationalized as blowing an air horn or blasting white noise at a typically unseen (and in truth, usually non-existent) opponent, and comparing "violent game" players to "non-violent game" players.

And the controls for confounds for the non-experimental studies tend to suck the meaning out of the results.

Beyond that, I'd trust Craig Anderson's video game research about as far as I'd trust the research on pornography coming from anyone who is proud to be associated with the Meese Commission.  The conclusions are pretty much written before the first data point is collected.
 
2014-05-10 06:31:45 PM

RodneyToady: And the controls for confounds for the non-experimental studies tend to suck the meaning out of the results.


That should have read :And the controls (or, equally important, the lack of them)...
 
2014-05-10 08:23:19 PM
I love a good moral panic as much as the next person, but I think there may be a legit argument for some videogames.

There is good evidence that repeated exposure to an anxiety-provoking stimulus in a simulation leads to desensitization. Most of this evidence comes from the use of simulation in systematic desensitization for people with anxiety disorders or phobias. The same effect is seen with passive interaction (i.e. movies of the stimulus) but to a lesser degree.

There is NOT however any evidence (that I'm aware of) that this desensitization causes violent behavior. In viewers with a firm grasp on reality and no motivation to become violent, I doubt there's any real harm. In people who are motivated (or psychotic), aversion to the sight of blood probably isn't going to prevent violent behavior.

The question this leaves us with is whether emotional sensitivity to scenes of extreme violence is something we want to preserve in our population. In kids, before other safeguards for behavior  such as understanding social norms, consequences, etc.) are in place: Probably. In most adults: That's really up to the adult.

/Attempt to be constructive. ?wasted on fark
 
2014-05-10 08:53:57 PM

MFAWG: I played a couple of very nice, fairly vintage Williams machines up in Georgetown the other night. Still not as awesome as:

[www.arcade-museum.com image 320x274]


Eight ball Deluxe sucks, hitting the multipliers is an easy SDTM, arcades never balance the machine right making an 8 ball-corner pocket shot a SDTM, and the "Eight Ball Deluxe: Limited Edition has that stupid and inconvenient back box.
 
2014-05-10 08:55:59 PM
i58.tinypic.com
 
2014-05-10 09:22:19 PM

nowaymanblue: It's such a legitimate concern.

I mean, if you are asked what single man-made possession you could remove from society in order to stop mass shootings the obvious and immediate answer is 'video games.'

/am in favor of the second amendment.
//but fark thinly veiled red herrings


Feel free to argue that exposure to violent video games does not produce violent tendencies until you are blue in the face. It is just intellectual dishonesty. You do not need empirical data to show that violent video games creates violent tendencies.
 
2014-05-10 10:14:14 PM

Dimensio: nowaymanblue: It's such a legitimate concern.

I mean, if you are asked what single man-made possession you could remove from society in order to stop mass shootings the obvious and immediate answer is 'video games.'

/am in favor of the second amendment.
//but fark thinly veiled red herrings

Feel free to argue that exposure to violent video games does not produce violent tendencies until you are blue in the face. It is just intellectual dishonesty. You do not need empirical data to show that violent video games creates violent tendencies.


You can argue that violent video games remove a barrier to violent behavior (i,.e. sensitivity/aversion) but given that there are plenty of other internal and extrinsic deterrents to violence it's hard to argue that they result in a significant change in actual behavior.
 
2014-05-10 10:42:23 PM

drwiki: There is good evidence that repeated exposure to an anxiety-provoking stimulus in a simulation leads to desensitization. Most of this evidence comes from the use of simulation in systematic desensitization for people with anxiety disorders or phobias. The same effect is seen with passive interaction (i.e. movies of the stimulus) but to a lesser degree.

There is NOT however any evidence (that I'm aware of) that this desensitization causes violent behavior. In viewers with a firm grasp on reality and no motivation to become violent, I doubt there's any real harm. In people who are motivated (or psychotic), aversion to the sight of blood probably isn't going to prevent violent behavior.

The question this leaves us with is whether emotional sensitivity to scenes of extreme violence is something we want to preserve in our population. In kids, before other safeguards for behavior such as understanding social norms, consequences, etc.) are in place: Probably. In most adults: That's really up to the adult.


I understand what you're saying.  But there is a huge chasm between desensitization to fictional portrayals of violence (movies, books, video games) via exposure to fictional portrayals of violence, and desensitization of real interpersonal violence via exposure to fictional portrayals of violence.  I won't argue at all with the first one.  Killing a dragon in Atari 2600's Adventure probably deadened me to killing "soldiers" in NES's Contra, probably deadened me all the way up to killing hundreds of thousands of pedestrians for fun in Saints Row The Third and the later GTA games.  I don't react at all to it at this stage.  Meanwhile, in real life, I'm still sensitized to people getting tense and angry at each other.  It doesn't even have to reach the level of minor violence before I'm on edge.  I've committed tens of thousands of vehicular manslaughters (probably murders, actually) in video games.  I saw the aftermath of a woman hit by a car the other day.  No blood, and she was able to stand after a while.  It still stuck with me for 20 minutes.

I realize that's an anecdote, but the point is, context matters.  (Actually, this matters just as much, and should be posted in any of these "video games/media/comic books cause violence debates).  Video games, generally speaking, still consist of a person (or more than one person), in a stationary position either standing or more likely sitting, manipulating the pixellated action on a video screen.  The body is largely stationary.  The head is stationary, eyes pointed straight ahead.  The hands manipulate the controllers, but that's about it.

Generally, there are no immersive visual depth cues, as one would see in real life.  There are no smells that key in to the on-screen action.  There's no physical exertion that matches the action.  There's no tactile sensation, beyond that of the vibration of the controller, which is a crude mechanism compared to what we experience in real life.  In a game like Grand Theft Auto, the physical body of the player reacts the same way, no matter if the on-screen character is walking, running, driving, going up stairs, swimming, is indoors, is outdoors, is fighting, is killing, is dying.  There may be a change in heart rate, or a change in emotional arousal (anger, happiness, frustration, etc), but nothing compared to what would happen in real life.

Everything is context.  You spend time at a shooting range, you'll get accustomed to hearing gunshots.  You live in a safe neighborhood and you hear one, you won't be desensitized to it.  The same way I'm desensitized to seeing squirrels on the trees outside my building, but I'd freak the fark out if one was sitting on my couch.

My point is, I don't see video game violence, even if it's extreme, desensitizing the population.  The contexts are different, and the experiences (real vs. fictional) are completely different.
 
2014-05-10 11:05:17 PM
I played lots of pacman and did in fact end up in dark clubs with fun lights, eating pills and moving around to electronic music. There were no ghosts to speak of unless they were the undercover cops.....then yeah...they were definitely after me.
 
2014-05-11 12:30:35 AM

drwiki: Dimensio: nowaymanblue: It's such a legitimate concern.

I mean, if you are asked what single man-made possession you could remove from society in order to stop mass shootings the obvious and immediate answer is 'video games.'

/am in favor of the second amendment.
//but fark thinly veiled red herrings

Feel free to argue that exposure to violent video games does not produce violent tendencies until you are blue in the face. It is just intellectual dishonesty. You do not need empirical data to show that violent video games creates violent tendencies.

You can argue that violent video games remove a barrier to violent behavior (i,.e. sensitivity/aversion) but given that there are plenty of other internal and extrinsic deterrents to violence it's hard to argue that they result in a significant change in actual behavior.


You may re-evaluate your position if you play God of War on hard mode.

/I am actually using an argument method identical to an argument method that nowaymanblue had used in a previous discussion, specifically to demonstrate its absurdity.
 
2014-05-11 01:26:27 AM
When I see "AD&D" I think "Advanced Dungeons and Dragons". When an insurance salesman sees the same acronym, they think "accidental death and dismemberment", yet somehow *I'm* the weirdo... Uh huh.
 
2014-05-11 01:57:14 AM
Oh goddammit. someone has already mentioned LoZ.
 
2014-05-11 06:25:34 AM

frepnog: Dafatone: frepnog: Dafatone: frepnog: Don't Troll Me Bro!: That used to crack me up so bad

as a die hard metal head and child of the 80's it didn't crack me up.  It pissed me off, to the point that to this day I can't bring myself to vote for a democrat.

Well, that's dumb.

nope.  it's always the same shiat from them, and fark the government.

Vote for who you want.  But don't point to something from 30 years ago as if it's relevant today.

20 years ago, Republicans pushed the healthcare plan that they're currently up in arms about.  By your logic, none of their supporters from 20 years ago should vote for them.

/which is actually pretty solid logic, but...

democrats supported and STILL farking support censorship.  I can not.  So they will not get my vote.  Ever.


Okay, you're even more delusional than I thought possible.
 
2014-05-11 06:33:55 AM
Anyway, video game violence isn't disturbing in and of itself.  The reason FOR the violence might be.

I played the crap out of the original Unreal Tournament.  Two teams of armed opponents in competition with each other, and death lasting seconds?  That's fine.

The Diablo series, fighting endless demons to save the world?  That's fine.

One of the rare ones that I thought went to far was Postal 2.  (didn't see the first one)  Killing strangers in various painful ways?  No thank you.

GTA, not really my thing, but watching others play(I think it was the 3rd I saw), I have to admire the physics models, and the radio stations.
 
2014-05-11 07:17:44 AM

Jake Havechek: I've smoked tons of weed and have not axe murdered anyone.


Yet. It's only a matter of time.
 
2014-05-11 09:26:39 AM

Tom_Slick: Yakk: JasonOfOrillia: I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.

The dangers of D&D

I'm getting a Mountain Dew, does anybody want one, Hey Graham I'm not in the room right?


Are there girls there? I wanna DO them.
 
2014-05-11 11:49:54 AM
Alphax:

GTA, not really my thing, but watching others play(I think it was the 3rd I saw), I have to admire the physics models, and the radio stations.

You know what's blowing my mind more and more?  The ability of games to model water movement.
 
2014-05-11 12:42:27 PM

Dimensio: drwiki: Dimensio: nowaymanblue: It's such a legitimate concern.

I mean, if you are asked what single man-made possession you could remove from society in order to stop mass shootings the obvious and immediate answer is 'video games.'

/am in favor of the second amendment.
//but fark thinly veiled red herrings

Feel free to argue that exposure to violent video games does not produce violent tendencies until you are blue in the face. It is just intellectual dishonesty. You do not need empirical data to show that violent video games creates violent tendencies.

You can argue that violent video games remove a barrier to violent behavior (i,.e. sensitivity/aversion) but given that there are plenty of other internal and extrinsic deterrents to violence it's hard to argue that they result in a significant change in actual behavior.

You may re-evaluate your position if you play God of War on hard mode.

/I am actually using an argument method identical to an argument method that nowaymanblue had used in a previous discussion, specifically to demonstrate its absurdity.


You sure showed me by bringing up an argument from a previous thread, inserting it into this one, and pretending that I made that conclusion in this thread and then arguing against it.

/man the internet is dumb.
 
2014-05-11 02:15:29 PM
Speedway, Star Wars, Space Invaders I love them just the same.
 
2014-05-11 03:23:31 PM

anuran: Eighty years ago it was Reefer Madness.
Sixty years ago it was comic books (cf. Seduction of the Innocent) and pinball
Thirty years ago it was Dungeons and Dragons
Today it's video games.

There's always a moral panic


Sixty years ago, the kids whose parents freaked out over "Reefer Madness" led the panic over comic books, because they had kids of their own.
Thirty years ago, the kids whose parents freaked out over D&D led the panic over video games, because they had kids of their own.
Today, the kids whose parents are freaked out about video games will lead a new moral panic, because they'll have kids of their own.

When reminiscing on FB with my HS friends, I'm always amazed at the amount of crazy, illegal shiat they no longer remember or admit to doing, simply because they now have kids of their own.  And there are PHOTOS of them doing that shiat.
 
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