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(The Raw Story)   "The moral panic du jour for my lifetime has been video games, and that panic has been just as stupid and fact-deprived as the rest of them. It started with pinball arcades and, boy, does it offer some perspective on the current panics"   (rawstory.com) divider line 123
    More: Interesting, moral panics, video arcades, video games, video game panics  
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5397 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 May 2014 at 1:30 PM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-10 05:53:05 PM  
mjjt: .
img.fark.net


i.ytimg.com
 
2014-05-10 06:10:13 PM  
It's such a legitimate concern.

I mean, if you are asked what single man-made possession you could remove from society in order to stop mass shootings the obvious and immediate answer is 'video games.'

/am in favor of the second amendment.
//but fark thinly veiled red herrings
 
2014-05-10 06:12:49 PM  
The only reasonable sentence in TFA was the last one

/Something I am looking forward to
 
2014-05-10 06:29:50 PM  

Son of Thunder: I see TFAuthor is just ignoring the dozens of studies (correlational, experimental, and longitudinal) that have found playing violent video games to be associated with increases in aggressive behavior.

(On phone, so no links, but about ten seconds with http://scholar.google.com should get one going. Also try Craig Anderson, one of the top researchers in the field: http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/~caa / )


I realize going into this that your Ph.D. in psychology trumps my ABD in it.

That said, so many of those studies, especially the experimental ones, use the shiattiest of methodology.  "Aggressive behavior" being operationalized as blowing an air horn or blasting white noise at a typically unseen (and in truth, usually non-existent) opponent, and comparing "violent game" players to "non-violent game" players.

And the controls for confounds for the non-experimental studies tend to suck the meaning out of the results.

Beyond that, I'd trust Craig Anderson's video game research about as far as I'd trust the research on pornography coming from anyone who is proud to be associated with the Meese Commission.  The conclusions are pretty much written before the first data point is collected.
 
2014-05-10 06:31:45 PM  

RodneyToady: And the controls for confounds for the non-experimental studies tend to suck the meaning out of the results.


That should have read :And the controls (or, equally important, the lack of them)...
 
2014-05-10 08:23:19 PM  
I love a good moral panic as much as the next person, but I think there may be a legit argument for some videogames.

There is good evidence that repeated exposure to an anxiety-provoking stimulus in a simulation leads to desensitization. Most of this evidence comes from the use of simulation in systematic desensitization for people with anxiety disorders or phobias. The same effect is seen with passive interaction (i.e. movies of the stimulus) but to a lesser degree.

There is NOT however any evidence (that I'm aware of) that this desensitization causes violent behavior. In viewers with a firm grasp on reality and no motivation to become violent, I doubt there's any real harm. In people who are motivated (or psychotic), aversion to the sight of blood probably isn't going to prevent violent behavior.

The question this leaves us with is whether emotional sensitivity to scenes of extreme violence is something we want to preserve in our population. In kids, before other safeguards for behavior  such as understanding social norms, consequences, etc.) are in place: Probably. In most adults: That's really up to the adult.

/Attempt to be constructive. ?wasted on fark
 
2014-05-10 08:53:57 PM  

MFAWG: I played a couple of very nice, fairly vintage Williams machines up in Georgetown the other night. Still not as awesome as:

[www.arcade-museum.com image 320x274]


Eight ball Deluxe sucks, hitting the multipliers is an easy SDTM, arcades never balance the machine right making an 8 ball-corner pocket shot a SDTM, and the "Eight Ball Deluxe: Limited Edition has that stupid and inconvenient back box.
 
2014-05-10 08:55:59 PM  
i58.tinypic.com
 
2014-05-10 09:22:19 PM  

nowaymanblue: It's such a legitimate concern.

I mean, if you are asked what single man-made possession you could remove from society in order to stop mass shootings the obvious and immediate answer is 'video games.'

/am in favor of the second amendment.
//but fark thinly veiled red herrings


Feel free to argue that exposure to violent video games does not produce violent tendencies until you are blue in the face. It is just intellectual dishonesty. You do not need empirical data to show that violent video games creates violent tendencies.
 
2014-05-10 10:14:14 PM  

Dimensio: nowaymanblue: It's such a legitimate concern.

I mean, if you are asked what single man-made possession you could remove from society in order to stop mass shootings the obvious and immediate answer is 'video games.'

/am in favor of the second amendment.
//but fark thinly veiled red herrings

Feel free to argue that exposure to violent video games does not produce violent tendencies until you are blue in the face. It is just intellectual dishonesty. You do not need empirical data to show that violent video games creates violent tendencies.


You can argue that violent video games remove a barrier to violent behavior (i,.e. sensitivity/aversion) but given that there are plenty of other internal and extrinsic deterrents to violence it's hard to argue that they result in a significant change in actual behavior.
 
2014-05-10 10:42:23 PM  

drwiki: There is good evidence that repeated exposure to an anxiety-provoking stimulus in a simulation leads to desensitization. Most of this evidence comes from the use of simulation in systematic desensitization for people with anxiety disorders or phobias. The same effect is seen with passive interaction (i.e. movies of the stimulus) but to a lesser degree.

There is NOT however any evidence (that I'm aware of) that this desensitization causes violent behavior. In viewers with a firm grasp on reality and no motivation to become violent, I doubt there's any real harm. In people who are motivated (or psychotic), aversion to the sight of blood probably isn't going to prevent violent behavior.

The question this leaves us with is whether emotional sensitivity to scenes of extreme violence is something we want to preserve in our population. In kids, before other safeguards for behavior such as understanding social norms, consequences, etc.) are in place: Probably. In most adults: That's really up to the adult.


I understand what you're saying.  But there is a huge chasm between desensitization to fictional portrayals of violence (movies, books, video games) via exposure to fictional portrayals of violence, and desensitization of real interpersonal violence via exposure to fictional portrayals of violence.  I won't argue at all with the first one.  Killing a dragon in Atari 2600's Adventure probably deadened me to killing "soldiers" in NES's Contra, probably deadened me all the way up to killing hundreds of thousands of pedestrians for fun in Saints Row The Third and the later GTA games.  I don't react at all to it at this stage.  Meanwhile, in real life, I'm still sensitized to people getting tense and angry at each other.  It doesn't even have to reach the level of minor violence before I'm on edge.  I've committed tens of thousands of vehicular manslaughters (probably murders, actually) in video games.  I saw the aftermath of a woman hit by a car the other day.  No blood, and she was able to stand after a while.  It still stuck with me for 20 minutes.

I realize that's an anecdote, but the point is, context matters.  (Actually, this matters just as much, and should be posted in any of these "video games/media/comic books cause violence debates).  Video games, generally speaking, still consist of a person (or more than one person), in a stationary position either standing or more likely sitting, manipulating the pixellated action on a video screen.  The body is largely stationary.  The head is stationary, eyes pointed straight ahead.  The hands manipulate the controllers, but that's about it.

Generally, there are no immersive visual depth cues, as one would see in real life.  There are no smells that key in to the on-screen action.  There's no physical exertion that matches the action.  There's no tactile sensation, beyond that of the vibration of the controller, which is a crude mechanism compared to what we experience in real life.  In a game like Grand Theft Auto, the physical body of the player reacts the same way, no matter if the on-screen character is walking, running, driving, going up stairs, swimming, is indoors, is outdoors, is fighting, is killing, is dying.  There may be a change in heart rate, or a change in emotional arousal (anger, happiness, frustration, etc), but nothing compared to what would happen in real life.

Everything is context.  You spend time at a shooting range, you'll get accustomed to hearing gunshots.  You live in a safe neighborhood and you hear one, you won't be desensitized to it.  The same way I'm desensitized to seeing squirrels on the trees outside my building, but I'd freak the fark out if one was sitting on my couch.

My point is, I don't see video game violence, even if it's extreme, desensitizing the population.  The contexts are different, and the experiences (real vs. fictional) are completely different.
 
2014-05-10 11:05:17 PM  
I played lots of pacman and did in fact end up in dark clubs with fun lights, eating pills and moving around to electronic music. There were no ghosts to speak of unless they were the undercover cops.....then yeah...they were definitely after me.
 
2014-05-11 12:30:35 AM  

drwiki: Dimensio: nowaymanblue: It's such a legitimate concern.

I mean, if you are asked what single man-made possession you could remove from society in order to stop mass shootings the obvious and immediate answer is 'video games.'

/am in favor of the second amendment.
//but fark thinly veiled red herrings

Feel free to argue that exposure to violent video games does not produce violent tendencies until you are blue in the face. It is just intellectual dishonesty. You do not need empirical data to show that violent video games creates violent tendencies.

You can argue that violent video games remove a barrier to violent behavior (i,.e. sensitivity/aversion) but given that there are plenty of other internal and extrinsic deterrents to violence it's hard to argue that they result in a significant change in actual behavior.


You may re-evaluate your position if you play God of War on hard mode.

/I am actually using an argument method identical to an argument method that nowaymanblue had used in a previous discussion, specifically to demonstrate its absurdity.
 
2014-05-11 01:26:27 AM  
When I see "AD&D" I think "Advanced Dungeons and Dragons". When an insurance salesman sees the same acronym, they think "accidental death and dismemberment", yet somehow *I'm* the weirdo... Uh huh.
 
2014-05-11 01:57:14 AM  
Oh goddammit. someone has already mentioned LoZ.
 
2014-05-11 06:25:34 AM  

frepnog: Dafatone: frepnog: Dafatone: frepnog: Don't Troll Me Bro!: That used to crack me up so bad

as a die hard metal head and child of the 80's it didn't crack me up.  It pissed me off, to the point that to this day I can't bring myself to vote for a democrat.

Well, that's dumb.

nope.  it's always the same shiat from them, and fark the government.

Vote for who you want.  But don't point to something from 30 years ago as if it's relevant today.

20 years ago, Republicans pushed the healthcare plan that they're currently up in arms about.  By your logic, none of their supporters from 20 years ago should vote for them.

/which is actually pretty solid logic, but...

democrats supported and STILL farking support censorship.  I can not.  So they will not get my vote.  Ever.


Okay, you're even more delusional than I thought possible.
 
2014-05-11 06:33:55 AM  
Anyway, video game violence isn't disturbing in and of itself.  The reason FOR the violence might be.

I played the crap out of the original Unreal Tournament.  Two teams of armed opponents in competition with each other, and death lasting seconds?  That's fine.

The Diablo series, fighting endless demons to save the world?  That's fine.

One of the rare ones that I thought went to far was Postal 2.  (didn't see the first one)  Killing strangers in various painful ways?  No thank you.

GTA, not really my thing, but watching others play(I think it was the 3rd I saw), I have to admire the physics models, and the radio stations.
 
2014-05-11 07:17:44 AM  

Jake Havechek: I've smoked tons of weed and have not axe murdered anyone.


Yet. It's only a matter of time.
 
2014-05-11 09:26:39 AM  

Tom_Slick: Yakk: JasonOfOrillia: I played D&D as a kid.  I've murdered hardly anyone.

The dangers of D&D

I'm getting a Mountain Dew, does anybody want one, Hey Graham I'm not in the room right?


Are there girls there? I wanna DO them.
 
2014-05-11 11:49:54 AM  
Alphax:

GTA, not really my thing, but watching others play(I think it was the 3rd I saw), I have to admire the physics models, and the radio stations.

You know what's blowing my mind more and more?  The ability of games to model water movement.
 
2014-05-11 12:42:27 PM  

Dimensio: drwiki: Dimensio: nowaymanblue: It's such a legitimate concern.

I mean, if you are asked what single man-made possession you could remove from society in order to stop mass shootings the obvious and immediate answer is 'video games.'

/am in favor of the second amendment.
//but fark thinly veiled red herrings

Feel free to argue that exposure to violent video games does not produce violent tendencies until you are blue in the face. It is just intellectual dishonesty. You do not need empirical data to show that violent video games creates violent tendencies.

You can argue that violent video games remove a barrier to violent behavior (i,.e. sensitivity/aversion) but given that there are plenty of other internal and extrinsic deterrents to violence it's hard to argue that they result in a significant change in actual behavior.

You may re-evaluate your position if you play God of War on hard mode.

/I am actually using an argument method identical to an argument method that nowaymanblue had used in a previous discussion, specifically to demonstrate its absurdity.


You sure showed me by bringing up an argument from a previous thread, inserting it into this one, and pretending that I made that conclusion in this thread and then arguing against it.

/man the internet is dumb.
 
2014-05-11 02:15:29 PM  
Speedway, Star Wars, Space Invaders I love them just the same.
 
2014-05-11 03:23:31 PM  

anuran: Eighty years ago it was Reefer Madness.
Sixty years ago it was comic books (cf. Seduction of the Innocent) and pinball
Thirty years ago it was Dungeons and Dragons
Today it's video games.

There's always a moral panic


Sixty years ago, the kids whose parents freaked out over "Reefer Madness" led the panic over comic books, because they had kids of their own.
Thirty years ago, the kids whose parents freaked out over D&D led the panic over video games, because they had kids of their own.
Today, the kids whose parents are freaked out about video games will lead a new moral panic, because they'll have kids of their own.

When reminiscing on FB with my HS friends, I'm always amazed at the amount of crazy, illegal shiat they no longer remember or admit to doing, simply because they now have kids of their own.  And there are PHOTOS of them doing that shiat.
 
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